@ghost_rider1 said:
@iLLituracy@ghost_rider1 said:
@iLLituracy@ghost_rider1 said:
@iLLituracyhuman torch c:
No....
this is the most sound argument i've ever heard on this site
i yield to your superior knowledge please forgive me
Lol...obviously I do have superior knowledge if u think human torch can beat iceman. Why do u think johnny win this?? Is it because fire melts ice?
yeah man
fire does melt ice
it melts v easily with fire present
matter of fact it's hard to keep ice around in a cup of cold water have you ever had a cup of cold water with ice in it ice doesn't last more than thirty minutes it's most upsetting and fire is a lot hotter than cold water i reckon you know???
i mean if you want to be condescending you could present why you think iceman would win
and please don't just state "he's omega level"
Sure...why not?? Unfortunately I can't post scans anymore to prove anything to u. U will need someone else to do that. Iceman is immortal and can't be beaten by ordinary means. Even if u melt iceman...he will only reform. He can exist as a solid, liquid, or gas form such as water vapor. As long as there is moisture on earth. Iceman can't be beaten. Iceman powers can freeze on a molecular level. In a fight against legion he froze every water molecule in his entire body. Unfortunately for johnny he is human. And humans entire body is made of 70% water. And iceman can freeze him instantly. He has also shown to freeze blood. When demonstrating his powers to emma frost. He froze the bloodflow to her brain with a simple THOUGHT. He didn't have to touch or even look at her for him to do this. One of the most powerful telpeaths on the planet was helpless against iceman. He can steal the moisture from other ppl as well. He was once incinerated till their was nothing of him left. And all he did was sap the moisture from their body and instantly reformed...melting iceman will do absolutely nothing to him at all. He has even shown that he can negate ppl from accesing their fire element powers. He did this to sunfire in the past. And used his own powers to stop her from having acces to her own. Human torch has no way to put iceman down....and have no defense against iceman freezing his blood or his body on a molecular level by simply just thinking about it.
I addressed most if not all of these points in my original debate in this very thread which is only a few pages back.
Since it's been a few years and each combatant's abilities aren't fresh on my mind, on top of the fact that Iceman's control over his power has grown since then, I'll address your key points with short responses. If I miss one, please bare with me, I'm not at all in any shape to write out long dissertations about superhero comics like I used to be.
Iceman being immortal is irrelevant. What does that have to do with this fight?
If Human Torch melts Iceman that should count as a win. Why? Because reforming, as far as I remember, is a daunting task for Iceman, one that's gotten easier as of recent, but it still takes time to do and is taxing if memory serves.
He can exist as solid, liquid or gas [water vapor would kind of be gas or liquid depending on the density so I'm not sure why you mentioned water vapor but okay]. Why is this relevant? It doesn't matter. Human Torch lights on fire. What's your point? He can't do anything in a liquid or gas form except try and become solid again. In most stories when he's dispersed he says how it's not easy for him to be that way.
As long as there's moisture on earth Iceman can't be beaten? Then how come Mystique managed to do it with a needle and a shotgun full of rock salt?
Mind you, this was a story written by Mike Carey. The same Mike Carey that had Iceman blown up in the Blinded by Light arc where the Northstar and Aurora destroyed Bobby's body and he had to reform himself. Mind you, Bobby has had to reform prior to this arc in an arc written by Chuck Austen that is often ignored by canon, Blinded by Light by Mike Carey is treated as the first time Iceman's had to do that [at least from a gaseous form].
I'm not even sure if his fight against Legion is canon. That was the very issue that led into AoA and Iceman went into that battle against Legion with a plethora of new applications to his power and came out of AoA with none of them. Do you see what I'm getting at here?
His ability to freeze blood is irrelevant. How is he going to freeze the blood of someone who's on fire and who's body temperature burns as hot as it does?
Also why is it relevant that one of the most powerful telepaths was useless against Iceman? Human Torch isn't a telepath and telepath's blood doesn't somehow course harder or is it somehow harder to freeze so it's really not relevant.
He stole the moisture from someone else twice.
There was a point in my life where I could give you issue numbers but there was once during Chuck Austen's run on Uncanny X-Men, I believe. It was during that one arc where they meet Nightcrawler's dad. Iceman was shown manipulating water that entire arc, then toward the end reformed completely from water, this is the arc that I mentioned earlier is generally ignored by future writers. Iceman doesn't manipulate water, anymore. Iceman has not been seen having the level of control he's had during Austen's runs.
The second time he does it is against Fuego during Mike Carey's run. Now, it's been a long while since I read Mike Carey's run or argued this, but Fuego melted Iceman and then ABSORBED him into himself. Iceman took Fuego's moisture from the inside out. I'm pretty sure Fuego's powers, since he absorbed Iceman's moisture into himself, works differently than most, especially since he's a part of the Children of the Vault.
The one time Iceman negated a fire element's powers was against Sunfire. Sunfire's powers were off because Sunfire was knocked out. He stopped Sunfire from accessing his powers while he was nearby. In a battle Johnny Storm isn't going to lay down and take a nap the only way Iceman could stop Johnny from using his powers is by beating him, which makes this argument irrelevant.
And before you say "well how do you know Iceman can't do this against people who's powers are on?"
Because Mike Carey, again, the person who made Iceman as strong as he is currently and wrote the scene where he cut Sunfire's powers off wrote a scene where Iceman and Sunfire fight during Messiah Complex. Messiah Complex was kind of a big deal, they were fighting the Marauders for the first mutant baby, so I don't see why Iceman wouldn't just cut off Sunfire's powers again if he could, which leads me to believe he couldn't.
No way to put Iceman down?
Melting Iceman and dispersing all of the moisture in the area would put Iceman down for a good while. Because heat does that, it makes things dry, entire areas, especially with Johnny's powers working on the scale they work on he could make an area feel like a desert, I'd imagine.
As for Human Torch having no defense to having his blood frozen...well, try and freeze something that's sitting in a fire and then get back at me.
Your understanding of Iceman and his powers is minimal. You've regurgitated supposed feats that are thrown around in the battles forum at me and I feel like you haven't looked into it yourself.
Before you respond to this, I implore you look back a couple pages to educate yourself on not only Iceman but Human Torch, as well.
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