I am doubtful if the Midnighter can actually hurt the Hulk. Although he has enhanced strength and reaction time,, he could in theory try to attack Hulks weak spots (never clusters etc) but Karnack failed to hurt the Hulk even after detecting a weak point and he too has enhanced strength and potent martial art skills.
The Midnighter could distract the Hulk, dodging ahead or his attacks, lining him up for attacks from Apollo. Staying ahead of the Hulks attacks will only work for so long because the Hulk does use area attacks (Shockwave to the Earth, Thunderclap with his hands, Air Expulsion from the lungs etc) and although Midnighter should be able to stay ahead of most of this onslaught, it's the random environmental effects that could catch him off gurad i.e falling masory that could temporarily stun him.
I think that Apollo is strong enough to hurt the Hulk with physical blows and is durable enough to take blows back (at least at the start of the fight when the Hulk would be at his weakest). Apollo's laser projection abilities have been used to cleanse approx half the moons surface and they are potent enough to hurt ancient 'space gods' so I am convinced that would hurt the Hulk as well.
However, overall I would see the Hulk winning as his power level will rise while the other 2 tire unless Apollo is permitted the win by transporting him in to space. With the massive speed he has displayed (and we don't know that it was his top speed), in travelling around half the world in well under a minute, he would be able to easily carry the Hulk up 300 miles (in under 5 seconds) and simply let him go and acceleration will do the rest.
"I am doubtful if the Midnighter can actually hurt the Hulk. Although he has enhanced strength and reaction time,, he could in theory try to attack Hulks weak spots (never clusters etc) but Karnack failed to hurt the Hulk even after detecting a weak point and he too has enhanced strength and potent martial art skills.
The Midnighter could distract the Hulk, dodging ahead or his attacks, lining him up for attacks from Apollo. Staying ahead of the Hulks attacks will only work for so long because the Hulk does use area attacks (Shockwave to the Earth, Thunderclap with his hands, Air Expulsion from the lungs etc) and although Midnighter should be able to stay ahead of most of this onslaught, it's the random environmental effects that could catch him off gurad i.e falling masory that could temporarily stun him.
I think that Apollo is strong enough to hurt the Hulk with physical blows and is durable enough to take blows back (at least at the start of the fight when the Hulk would be at his weakest). Apollo's laser projection abilities have been used to cleanse approx half the moons surface and they are potent enough to hurt ancient 'space gods' so I am convinced that would hurt the Hulk as well.
However, overall I would see the Hulk winning as his power level will rise while the other 2 tire unless Apollo is permitted the win by transporting him in to space. With the massive speed he has displayed (and we don't know that it was his top speed), in travelling around half the world in well under a minute, he would be able to easily carry the Hulk up 300 miles (in under 5 seconds) and simply let him go and acceleration will do the rest."
"If the Hulk fights someone with super speed and flight this is how the fight should go:
Here we have a Skrull with WWH powers. Stage 1: Slam into him Stage 2: Fling him in space and watch him suffocate.
"
Just a few points to note,
1. Apollo is approximately 620x faster than Ms Marvel (based on their known top speeds). Therefore this task would be even simpler as I also believe Apollo to be stronger and more durable than Ms Marvel (but I am not arguing here with you). 2. If that Super Skrull was as powerful as WWH, blows to Ms Marvel's back would have snapped her spine as feats of strength demonstrated by WWH damaged beings more durable than Ms Marvel.
"Cheers and thats why I posted it. If Ms Marvel can do it, then Apollo can definately do it. "
But she could only do it to a Skrull who in no way has the power level of WWHulk,
But on that note, I'm not using WWHulk, so there is something to be said for the strategy. But didn't the Hulk stand out on the surface of the ship used by him to return to earth without anything helping him to survive?
"He did, but he still needs to breath. After his breath runs out he'll die eventually. "
How about this. Could the Hulk use the effect of clapping his hands to propel himself back into to earths gravity? I mean if it can blow out the Human torch flame it should have some effect.
Including the however many feet fall to the ground? Plus who is to say that Apollo is just gonna leave him just outside the Earth's atmosphere. He could take him out of the solar system and then what?
Allow all of you. Ace High wrapped this is up nicely. Thats all the Hulk gets ever when he goes up against a flier who is durable and quick. The Hulk aint surviving getting thrown into space and ya know why? Because there are no writers coming to his rescue in this scenario!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"He did, but he still needs to breath. After his breath runs out he'll die eventually. "
How about this. Could the Hulk use the effect of clapping his hands to propel himself back into to earths gravity? I mean if it can blow out the Human torch flame it should have some effect. "
Clapping his hands to generate force requires the presence of an atmosphere to move / transmit energy through. No atmosphere, no effect.
Ace High said:
"How? He is in space. Then he has to deal with atmospheric re-entry he'll probably burn up. "
The Hulk has survived re-entry before. He has fallen from spaceships and even from a Sentinel space station.
Logic Mark III said:
"Allow all of you. Ace High wrapped this is up nicely. Thats all the Hulk gets ever when he goes up against a flier who is durable and quick. The Hulk aint surviving getting thrown into space and ya know why? Because there are no writers coming to his rescue in this scenario!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
The Hulk would lose here... Apollo and Midnighter would crush The Hulk. If all else fails anyways the Wildstorm team could use The Door to send The Hulk into space
"How? He is in space. Then he has to deal with atmospheric re-entry he'll probably burn up. "
Sorry Ace but thats been done before, the Hulk can leap thousands of miles in a single jump and once or twice he jumped so high he jumped into orbit
caption and he did not burn up on reintry(or maybe he did but he survived it) even banner survived reintry when Surfer let him fall to the earth. Also Hulk can breath in space he has had numerous fights in space. caption
And why do you guys think the Hulk doesnt fight any one with super speed and super strength combined. It is even funny that someone would post a picture of Ms Marvel doing that to the Hulk and say it would work, do you know how many times the Hulk has fought the whole entire Avengers by himself, countless times she was on some of those teams. Hulk almost beat the avengers on quite a few occasions if not for a plot device of some sort. Also quite a few of Hulks arch enimies have superspeed, superstrength and can fly, ( Speedfreak for one) so that won't matter. So Hulk would beat apollo and Midnighter togther or apart it wouldn't matter but he probably won't fight them cuz he would kill one of them and doesn't want to break up a happy home LOL..
"How? He is in space. Then he has to deal with atmospheric re-entry he'll probably burn up. "
Sorry Ace but thats been done before, the Hulk can leap thousands of miles in a single jump and once or twice he jumped so high he jumped into orbit
caption and he did not burn up on reintry(or maybe he did but he survived it) even banner survived reintry when Surfer let him fall to the earth. Also Hulk can breath in space he has had numerous fights in space. caption
And why do you guys think the Hulk doesnt fight any one with super speed and super strength combined. It is even funny that someone would post a picture of Ms Marvel doing that to the Hulk and say it would work, do you know how many times the Hulk has fought the whole entire Avengers by himself, countless times she was on some of those teams. Hulk almost beat the avengers on quite a few occasions if not for a plot device of some sort. Also quite a few of Hulks arch enimies have superspeed, superstrength and can fly, ( Speedfreak for one) so that won't matter. So Hulk would beat apollo and Midnighter togther or apart it wouldn't matter but he probably won't fight them cuz he would kill one of them and doesn't want to break up a happy home LOL.. "
Hmm...very good SeSaw. But I would say to you that Hulk will catch hell trying to actually land a hit on either Midnighter or Apollo. Both of them are faster than The Hulk and can easily elude Hulk's attacks...Apollo possesses enough strength to hurt The Hulk if for some reason Midnighter isnt strong enough to hurt Hulk's dense body... I cant see Hulk winning here
I dont think they should get or even need the Door. Midnighter is inconsequential here. He isnt needed. Apollo is strong enough and fast enough to take the Hulk far enoguh from Earth to the point were he couldnt drift back into the atmosphere as with the scans shown above. Hell that scan displayed that he needs oxygen. Even though he has fought people in space and rode that starship in WWH he still needs oxygen. He was merely holding his breath, which he could do for a while with his great lng capacity. Yes Hulk has fought numerous people who can do what Ms. Marvel did to the Skrull, but thats it; That creature was a Skrull. It was any jobber Skrull not the Incredible money making many comic having Hulk. Any flier could have dont that to whup the Hulk ages ago, but he is a star of his own successful comic[s] so nobody is going to do it.
Luckily we dont have to worry about that on the Vine. We can kill the Hulk in the easiest ways. Which is exactly what Apollo would do.
Hulk can breath in space he has fought plenty of times in space without conseqence. But the point I am trying to make is the Hulk has been a problem for the whole Avengers more times than you can count. He has fought the West coast, and regular Avengers together, and he even fought the Avengers and fantastic 4 together, depending on the team they have numerous peolpe who should be able to do the things you say and they have him out numbered but he still can hold his own against several top heros while being outnumbered, and a lot of times he almost wins. Hell in WWH he did win he beat the Xmen by himself, and enslaved a lot of the top heroes and took NY over with 4 street levers. Hes been facing better teams with more numbers than this for decades, so Apollo and Midnighter shouldnt be that much of a challenge. Hulk probably has more experience facing whole groups than any other hero.
Okay. Now if the people he had fought that were capable of flying him into space had done so, he would have died; then there would be no more Hulk, - no more Hulk comics - and no more money for Marvel from that character you see? So it benefits Marvel to have people duke it out with him i.e Thor will wrestle him rather than use Mjolnir to teleport him, like he does to the Juggernaut [eventually] when they fight. Its viable to send the Juggernaut away because he isnt as popular or a main character or even susceptable to most forms of harm.; but do it to the Hulk and you have to say by to a main character. Its just not going to happen.
The Hulk cant breath in space, there is no air. He has great lung capacity, he may be able to hold his breath for hours even days at a time. He has never been shown to indefinetly stay in space. Sue storm knocked him out by suffocation with an invisible forcefiled, so he does need air. Even if he can survive in space [?!?!!?!? WTF] he cant fly so he would be stranded in space.
"Hulk can breath in space he has fought plenty of times in space without conseqence. But the point I am trying to make is the Hulk has been a problem for the whole Avengers more times than you can count. He has fought the West coast, and regular Avengers together, and he even fought the Avengers and fantastic 4 together, depending on the team they have numerous peolpe who should be able to do the things you say and they have him out numbered but he still can hold his own against several top heros while being outnumbered, and a lot of times he almost wins. Hell in WWH he did win he beat the Xmen by himself, and enslaved a lot of the top heroes and took NY over with 4 street levers. Hes been facing better teams with more numbers than this for decades, so Apollo and Midnighter shouldnt be that much of a challenge. Hulk probably has more experience facing whole groups than any other hero."
Assuming it's allowed, you're ignoring the Door argument.
It is a possibility that you could strand Hulk in space ( but he can breath in space and underwater) you have a chance of beating him that way, but that is not an easy job at all. What is going to just stand there and allow you to do this to him, Hulk ain't that skrull that Ms marvel took into space.
"It is a possibility that you could strand Hulk in space ( but he can breath in space and underwater) you have a chance of beating him that way, but that is not an easy job at all. What is going to just stand there and allow you to do this to him, Hulk ain't that skrull that Ms marvel took into space."
But They could use The Door on The Hulk and plant it in front of Hulk as Hulk rushes them... then what ? Cause Hulk wont have the speed nor reaction time to dodge the door if it planted directly in front of him
"It is a possibility that you could strand Hulk in space ( but he can breath in space and underwater) you have a chance of beating him that way, but that is not an easy job at all. What is going to just stand there and allow you to do this to him, Hulk ain't that skrull that Ms marvel took into space."
But They could use The Door on The Hulk and plant it in front of Hulk as Hulk rushes them... then what ? Cause Hulk wont have the speed nor reaction time to dodge the door if it planted directly in front of him "
"If the Hulk fights someone with super speed and flight this is how the fight should go:
Here we have a Skrull with WWH powers. Stage 1: Slam into him Stage 2: Fling him in space and watch him suffocate.
Yeah, unfortunately, that wouldn't work with any Hulk, let alone WWH for a number of reasons! Hulk can survive in space for one! And I can't see Midnighter and Apollo doing what alot of the Marvel U failed to do up front!
I noticed in the pic Ms Marvel is stating that the Shrull was pounding her back and it felt as though it was gonna break. If the Shrull had time to do this, I think the Hulk could and her back would be more than just feelin broken.
I'm not saying its not a good strategy, just covering everything.
How about they failed to do it because it was called World War HULK and The Sentry flying him into space right at the start wouldn't have sold any comics. You telling me Doc Strange couldn't have just ported him into limbo and left him there? Plus that Skrull-Hulk seemed to have the powers of The Sentry as well so he might have had some of his speed allowing him to react that fast, but thats beside the point. Midnighter already knows exactly how the fight is gonna go, so even if he specifically can't do anything about it he can relay exactly what to do through radio-telepathy to Apollo and let him sort it out. The Hulk can't fly so he ain't gonna be chasing them if Apollo grabs Midnighter and takes to the air. So they have all the time in the world to formulate a winning plan, which Apollo is strong and fast enough to carry out.
"How about they failed to do it because it was called World War HULK and The Sentry flying him into space right at the start wouldn't have sold any comics. You telling me Doc Strange couldn't have just ported him into limbo and left him there? Plus that Skrull-Hulk seemed to have the powers of The Sentry as well so he might have had some of his speed allowing him to react that fast, but thats beside the point. Midnighter already knows exactly how the fight is gonna go, so even if he specifically can't do anything about it he can relay exactly what to do through radio-telepathy to Apollo and let him sort it out. The Hulk can't fly so he ain't gonna be chasing them if Apollo grabs Midnighter and takes to the air. So they have all the time in the world to formulate a winning plan, which Apollo is strong and fast enough to carry out. "
"How about they failed to do it because it was called World War HULK and The Sentry flying him into space right at the start wouldn't have sold any comics. You telling me Doc Strange couldn't have just ported him into limbo and left him there? Plus that Skrull-Hulk seemed to have the powers of The Sentry as well so he might have had some of his speed allowing him to react that fast, but thats beside the point. Midnighter already knows exactly how the fight is gonna go, so even if he specifically can't do anything about it he can relay exactly what to do through radio-telepathy to Apollo and let him sort it out. The Hulk can't fly so he ain't gonna be chasing them if Apollo grabs Midnighter and takes to the air. So they have all the time in the world to formulate a winning plan, which Apollo is strong and fast enough to carry out. "
Doc strange could teleperted him away he probably would have except they just did that to him and Strnge realized that Hulk always comes back madder than before so it makes no sense. And as for Midnighter an Apollo , in the famous words of Mike Tyson " Everybody has a plan until they get hit". When Hulk hits Midnighter he can turn off hiss pain recepters all he wants to matter fact he better vuz either way hes going down in 3 or 4 shots ( hes never fought anyone with hulk level strength) and he should use his Tp to tell Apollo that he's about to go down he needs help. After Hulk finishes Midnighter he will take out Apollo.
And as for Midnighter an Apollo , in the famous words of Mike Tyson " Everybody has a plan until they get hit". When Hulk hits Midnighter he can turn off hiss pain recepters all he wants to matter fact he better vuz either way hes going down in 3 or 4 shots
Aprt from Iron Mike never faught anyone with a computer in their heads that takes in every potential move by their opponent and allows him to know their moves before them. In this way he knows where and when Hulk will throw his next punch and so can always dodge a head.
After Hulk finishes Midnighter he will take out Apollo.
How will that happen when this fight can be finished by the simple removal of the Hulk from the planet surface at speeds that few Earth heores in the Marvel universe possess ?
And as for Midnighter an Apollo , in the famous words of Mike Tyson " Everybody has a plan until they get hit". When Hulk hits Midnighter he can turn off hiss pain recepters all he wants to matter fact he better vuz either way hes going down in 3 or 4 shots
Aprt from Iron Mike never faught anyone with a computer in their heads that takes in every potential move by their opponent and allows him to know their moves before them. In this way he knows where and when Hulk will throw his next punch and so can always dodge a head.
After Hulk finishes Midnighter he will take out Apollo.
How will that happen when this fight can be finished by the simple removal of the Hulk from the planet surface at speeds that few Earth heores in the Marvel universe possess ?" After some thought, I don't think Apollo could move fast enough to get rid of the Hulk before the Hulk could hit him. And if the Hulk was taken out in space why would he just let Apollo klet him go. I mean to take the hulk he would have to grab him aloowing the Hulk to grab him back. Also, the hulk is no slug himself. A constant saying in his comics by opponents is "How could something so big move so fast".
After some thought, I don't think Apollo could move fast enough to get rid of the Hulk before the Hulk could hit him. And if the Hulk was taken out in space why would he just let Apollo klet him go. I mean to take the hulk he would have to grab him aloowing the Hulk to grab him back. Also, the hulk is no slug himself. A constant saying in his comics by opponents is "How could something so big move so fast". "
There are 2 opponents for Hulk here and both are in mental contact with each other and the pair have been fighting together for many years.
The Midnighter could keep the Hulk focussed on him allowing Apollo to fly up behind Hulk and grab him by a leg and fly him up. The choice of the leg and from behind puts the hulk in the worst position. Not only does he have to attempt to sit upright against incredible acceleration, but this means that he is facing away from Apllo as well.
After a rethink on the time taken to cover say 300 miles, it would take Apollo, including acceleration time, something like 3 - 4 seconds to get the Hulk to this distance from the planet. Letting go of the Hulk at this speed would certainly see the Hulks momentum take him beyond Earth orbit.
After some thought, I don't think Apollo could move fast enough to get rid of the Hulk before the Hulk could hit him. And if the Hulk was taken out in space why would he just let Apollo klet him go. I mean to take the hulk he would have to grab him aloowing the Hulk to grab him back. Also, the hulk is no slug himself. A constant saying in his comics by opponents is "How could something so big move so fast". "
There are 2 opponents for Hulk here and both are in mental contact with each other and the pair have been fighting together for many years.
The Midnighter could keep the Hulk focussed on him allowing Apollo to fly up behind Hulk and grab him by a leg and fly him up. The choice of the leg and from behind puts the hulk in the worst position. Not only does he have to attempt to sit upright against incredible acceleration, but this means that he is facing away from Apllo as well.
After a rethink on the time taken to cover say 300 miles, it would take Apollo, including acceleration time, something like 3 - 4 seconds to get the Hulk to this distance from the planet. Letting go of the Hulk at this speed would certainly see the Hulks momentum take him beyond Earth orbit."
I would think 3 to 4 sec woud be plenty of time for the hulk to break free, even grabbed by the leg.
I think it comes down to if Apollo is strong enough to handle the Hulk to complete an attack like that.
After some thought, I don't think Apollo could move fast enough to get rid of the Hulk before the Hulk could hit him. And if the Hulk was taken out in space why would he just let Apollo klet him go. I mean to take the hulk he would have to grab him aloowing the Hulk to grab him back. Also, the hulk is no slug himself. A constant saying in his comics by opponents is "How could something so big move so fast". "
There are 2 opponents for Hulk here and both are in mental contact with each other and the pair have been fighting together for many years.
The Midnighter could keep the Hulk focussed on him allowing Apollo to fly up behind Hulk and grab him by a leg and fly him up. The choice of the leg and from behind puts the hulk in the worst position. Not only does he have to attempt to sit upright against incredible acceleration, but this means that he is facing away from Apllo as well.
After a rethink on the time taken to cover say 300 miles, it would take Apollo, including acceleration time, something like 3 - 4 seconds to get the Hulk to this distance from the planet. Letting go of the Hulk at this speed would certainly see the Hulks momentum take him beyond Earth orbit."
I would think 3 to 4 sec woud be plenty of time for the hulk to break free, even grabbed by the leg.
I think it comes down to if Apollo is strong enough to handle the Hulk to complete an attack like that."
Well the Midnighter senses appear to identify the super powers / talents / abilities his opponents possess. He would know about the Hulk's ability to increase his strength as he gets more angry. Therefore this maneuver could be used near the start of the fight when I believe Apollo to be strong enough to handle the Hulk.
I could buy that but from what I've seen of Apollo he doesn't seem that strong at all. Even at Hulk calm state (70 tons) I feel he stronger. Do u know of any feats that may chnage this opinion?
"I could buy that but from what I've seen of Apollo he doesn't seem that strong at all. Even at Hulk calm state (70 tons) I feel he stronger. Do u know of any feats that may chnage this opinion? "
"I could buy that but from what I've seen of Apollo he doesn't seem that strong at all. Even at Hulk calm state (70 tons) I feel he stronger. Do u know of any feats that may chnage this opinion? "
After a very quick review (and there are no doubt better examples), Apollo was seen to move a very large (several meters in diameter) boulder / rock. Basing it roughly on 12 meters in diameter this would calculate to roughly 20000 tonnes. This seemed like a comfortable lift so he seems pretty strong.
I can't recall the comic but I did the calculation a long time ago on Comicvine when the info was fresh in my head.
I don't see midnighter hurting Hulk, period, only angering him, and Apollo isn't sufficient in strength or stratagy to put him down, so they both go down, the hard way! Hulk ftw
" I don't see midnighter hurting Hulk, period, only angering him, and Apollo isn't sufficient in strength or stratagy to put him down, so they both go down, the hard way! Hulk ftw "
Midnighter may not be able to defeat Hulk, but he can sure as heck stay alive and if Apollo doesn't have enough strategy to come up with the plan of tossing Hulk into space, Midnighter can tell him what to do.
@Nerx said:
" What about Door? that is very tricky "
Why are you going through like all the Midnighter threads and bumping them with Door talk? Did you just read a bunch of comics with him or something?
Hulk cannot breath in space or underwater, he needs to breath but he can hold his breath for over an hour. And like Zoom mentioned elsewhere what makes you think that some superstrong flyer is going to automatically try to take a guy into space? What happens when a flyer tries that with Hulk and he smashes their head Kids In The Hall style?. And Midnighter's computer ain't never encountered the savage unpredictible fury of the Hulk. He's not going to 2nd guess his style. AND finally there is NO WAY IN HELL they are going to beat the Hulk. They can bring Northstar, Freddy Mecury and even the whole flaming Rainbow to help and it won't.
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