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#1 Edited by Soothing_Sounds (1718 posts) - - Show Bio
VS

SCENARIO:

Bruce Banner hears that Doom has an answer to Hulk, by teleporting to a place where his enemies are too strong for him. Instead of confronting Dr. Doom right away, he prepares Hulk for two days for an enemy he can't beat. While doing so, Banner finds a celestial armory in the things he steals from Doom's castle, Reed Richards labs, and Apocalypse tomb. He was planning on more when Dr. Doom transported Bruce to Metropolis, somehow transforming him into the Hulk on the way. And you already know how the cookie crumbles when Hulk decides to come smashing. Luckily for Hulk, his Banner prep helps him whoop the man of Steel's @ss. Deciding he can't beat Hulk on his own, yet not wanting to go to the jla (who are all on vacation at the time), he goes to Lex Luthor. The duo prep for the Hulk, while Banner now having more time to himself, preps for his next encounter against Superman.

DETAILS:

Morals on

New 52

Win By Ko/ Death

Banner has 5 days prep. 2 with no knowledge on his opponent, 3 with knowledge only on Superman

Banner has celestial tech to work with while prepping.

Duo has 3 days prep, with basic information on Hulk (No knowledge on Hulk's energy source)

Battle takes place in Metropolis

#3 Posted by Saren (25317 posts) - - Show Bio

@soothing_sounds: Do not tag that many people at once. It is inbox spamming. Tag 3 or 4 people at best, if you must.

Moderator
#4 Posted by Soothing_Sounds (1718 posts) - - Show Bio
#5 Posted by TheAcidSkull (17344 posts) - - Show Bio

Personally i don't really think Banners prepping skills match Luthros in any ways.

I feel that the team can take this.

#6 Edited by Wolverine08 (38892 posts) - - Show Bio

Team.

#7 Posted by SheenLantern (6255 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm guessing Hulk beat Superman via power drain of some sort? In which case Lex's first idea would be to send Supes into the sun and build a solar suit similar to Superboy-Prime's.

#8 Edited by Lvenger (18440 posts) - - Show Bio

You pit Hulk up against a guy who can beat him on his own against most Hulk incarnations (New 52 lacks the combat speed and durability feats to take an even majority over WBH) and a prep master/smartest man in the DCU who's prepped for more powerful beings than Hulk? Team all the way.

#9 Posted by Cor_Tsar (1255 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm guessing Hulk beat Superman via power drain of some sort? In which case Lex's first idea would be to send Supes into the sun and build a solar suit similar to Superboy-Prime's.

I personally just think current Hulk is more impressive than New 52 Superman. Wade is proving how fast Hulk can really be, as well as giving him some decent new resistant and durability feats.

#10 Posted by SheenLantern (6255 posts) - - Show Bio

@cor_tsar said:

Wade is proving how fast Hulk can really be

...How fast can he be? Nanosecond? Picosecond?

#11 Posted by Cor_Tsar (1255 posts) - - Show Bio

@cor_tsar said:

Wade is proving how fast Hulk can really be

...How fast can he be? Nanosecond? Picosecond?

Quick enough to move through absolute temperatures running water, save Thor, and bring him out of the water before his armor had finished it's sentence (actually he may have done it within a word) as well as save Iron Man from an explosion. I don't think any numbers have been given(which i kinda like), but the feats are definitely impressive none the less.

#12 Posted by dorukesin (5125 posts) - - Show Bio

Isn't new 52 superman travels Pluto-Earth in a second ?

#13 Posted by dondave (34598 posts) - - Show Bio

Team Stomps

#14 Posted by Dratini1331 (7001 posts) - - Show Bio

@cor_tsar: Meh :\ I'd be more impressed if absolute Zero meant anything in comics other than "really cold! and lots of ice!"

Explosion dodging is a pretty normal feat for a hero IMO.

Anyways, I believe that Banner not knowing about luthor is too great of a detraction, and he likely cannot take the duo because of that.

#15 Edited by Cor_Tsar (1255 posts) - - Show Bio

@dratini1331: Absolute zero means something in Marvel comics at least. Bobby gets hyped up because of it, Johnny was put out in Asgardian weather, and this freezing water happened to be magic, and there's the fact he rescued Thor(Who's around Superman speed level) from it within a second, and there's the fact that just in general it's water he's quickly moving through. The explosion feat can be lowballed, saving Iron man from it is what impress's me, I don't know how you could lowball the icy river feat, but your opinion is understandable.

#16 Posted by Lvenger (18440 posts) - - Show Bio

@cor_tsar said:

@sheenlantern said:

@cor_tsar said:

Wade is proving how fast Hulk can really be

...How fast can he be? Nanosecond? Picosecond?

Quick enough to move through absolute temperatures running water, save Thor, and bring him out of the water before his armor had finished it's sentence (actually he may have done it within a word) as well as save Iron Man from an explosion. I don't think any numbers have been given(which i kinda like), but the feats are definitely impressive none the less.

Impressive yes, Fast enough to tag Superman? Not really.

#17 Posted by green_skaar (4415 posts) - - Show Bio

I hate prep matches, they are even more speculative than non-prep matches, which are very speculative!

#18 Posted by Cor_Tsar (1255 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: IC? Hulk has already regulary tagged people faster than himself, he's reacting on par to Young Thor and Iron Man. Superman's fast, but besides his Barry tagging feat (which isn't all that impressive to me honestly) what other high-end reaction speed feats does he have so far?

#19 Edited by SOG7dc (6713 posts) - - Show Bio
#20 Posted by green_skaar (4415 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@cor_tsar: Speed blitzing Orion and He'l.

How do we know Orion or H'el was using their speed to the fullest extent of their abilities? After all that's the common retort when a "slower" character hits a "faster" character.

#21 Posted by Lvenger (18440 posts) - - Show Bio

@cor_tsar: How is tagging Thor a speed feat? He's street level combat speed at best. Hulk's tagged faster street levelers like Spider-Man before but Superman is in a whole other category. As for Superman's speed feats, he has 3 instances of speed blitzing so Hulk's gonna be hard pressed to tag him

Blitzes Hal without him knowing what's hit him

Blitzes a rock tunnel whilst weakened by Lex's attack on him in the previous issue

Speed blitzes Orion

Again, this trump card of DC powerhouses comes into play. Tagging Spider-Man is one thing. Tagging Superman is another feat altogether and Hulk doesn't have the feats or showcasings to consistently do that.

#22 Edited by Cor_Tsar (1255 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: Yo, all he's doing is flying at his enemies swinging his fist. I don't see how Hulk couldn't counter this, i don't know how Orion couldn't counter this either. TBH, i don't even know how that's actually effective. If we're taking that as it is, might as well say Thor also tackle hit Sentry, who has much greater reaction feats than a street leveler. Any fast flying character could do this.

#23 Posted by batmannflash (6192 posts) - - Show Bio

Team

#24 Posted by _Atomikill_ (3608 posts) - - Show Bio

The team. EASILY. Superman can already solo Hulk.

#25 Posted by SOG7dc (6713 posts) - - Show Bio

@green_skaar: that's actually a good point. Orion was caught off gaurd and gloating while he got blitzed and He'l was lecturing while seemingly preparing to attack wonderwoman. So it us fair to say they weren't using their speed

#26 Posted by green_skaar (4415 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@green_skaar: that's actually a good point. Orion was caught off gaurd and gloating while he got blitzed and He'l was lecturing while seemingly preparing to attack wonderwoman. So it us fair to say they weren't using their speed

Thanks for providing the context.

#27 Posted by SOG7dc (6713 posts) - - Show Bio
#28 Edited by Lvenger (18440 posts) - - Show Bio

@cor_tsar: Again you misunderstand the merit of speed blitzing. The point of it is that Superman can move around Hulk peppering him with superfast blows that hit hard and that the Hulk can't do anything to block these hits because Superman is moving too fast for him to tag. I'm currently trawling through a 30 page New 52 respect thread for Superman but here are the combat speed and reaction feats I've found so far that show Superman can do multiple things at superspeed in battle

  • Fixes a building at superspeed. This requires a reaction and comprehension of what you're doing meaning that Superman was capable of repairing that building by perceiving easily what he was doing
  • Absorbing 5 years worth of medical knowledge in 10 minutes. Again Superman needs to be able to comprehend what he's reading so to absorb all that knowledge is an impressive speed feat
  • Moving like lightning. Not only is this the writer's words, Clark is also writing them in the report so he'd know how fast he was going.
  • Creating a waterspout and freezing it in 3 seconds. If Superman were to try this on Hulk with some heat vision added in, this'd provide a real nuisance to Hulk
  • And finally saving mind controlled people from committing suicide off a building. They're jumping off as soon as he puts them back on the ground and he moves as a blur to pick them up from midair.

#29 Edited by Cor_Tsar (1255 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@cor_tsar: Float like a butterfly....

lol, what are you saying by this?

#30 Posted by SOG7dc (6713 posts) - - Show Bio

@cor_tsar: You said you didn't see how superman flying at you and punching really fat wa effective. Any boxer could tell you how that would be effective. It's Like if you took Floyd mayeeathers speed an george foremans strength and put them in one fighter. Just by physical ability he'd be the best fighter on earth.

#31 Posted by Pierpat (2669 posts) - - Show Bio

Team has this, in 3 days luthor can power up clark similarly to SBP, and then clark would be just too fast and too strong.....

#32 Posted by Cor_Tsar (1255 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@cor_tsar: Again you misunderstand the merit of speed blitzing. The point of it is that Superman can move around Hulk peppering him with superfast blows that hit hard and that the Hulk can't do anything to block these hits because Superman is moving too fast for him to tag. I'm currently trawling through a 30 page New 52 respect thread for Superman but here are the combat speed and reaction feats I've found so far that show Superman can do multiple things at superspeed in battle

No I understand a speedblitz, nothing you showed proved he could do that. He's only moving at blur speeds as a child, which doesn't mean it's not impressive, just that it doesn't prove he can blitz Hulk. The second scan, he's reading a book... so he can read and flip pages pretty, uh, pretty fast. And all his actual blitz aren't actual blitz. Flash Blitz's people, Superman just kinda super tackles people. It kinda reminds me of Luigi's running tackle in SSB, except Superman has a super version of it. Hulk has been showing blur speed recently. Don't get me wrong, i don't think Hulk can exactly keep up with Superman in the speed department, but i don't see why he shouldn't be able to react well enough.

#33 Posted by Cor_Tsar (1255 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc: Yeah, if you put them together they'd be a monster, but if that combination just ran and threw his fist at another boxer, then any boxer in the heavyweight class would humiliate them with a counter. Repeatedly.

#34 Posted by SOG7dc (6713 posts) - - Show Bio

@cor_tsar: That's the thing though. Superman is too fast to counter punch. He'd see the punch coming. Dodge it. Them continue to batter his opponent.

#35 Edited by Lvenger (18440 posts) - - Show Bio

@cor_tsar said:

@lvenger said:

@cor_tsar: Again you misunderstand the merit of speed blitzing. The point of it is that Superman can move around Hulk peppering him with superfast blows that hit hard and that the Hulk can't do anything to block these hits because Superman is moving too fast for him to tag. I'm currently trawling through a 30 page New 52 respect thread for Superman but here are the combat speed and reaction feats I've found so far that show Superman can do multiple things at superspeed in battle

No I understand a speedblitz, nothing you showed proved he could do that. He's only moving at blur speeds as a child, which doesn't mean it's not impressive, just that it doesn't prove he can blitz Hulk. The second scan, he's reading a book... so he can read and flip pages pretty, uh, pretty fast. And all his actual blitz aren't actual blitz. Flash Blitz's people, Superman just kinda super tackles people. It kinda reminds me of Luigi's running tackle in SSB, except Superman has a super version of it. Hulk has been showing blur speed recently. Don't get me wrong, i don't think Hulk can exactly keep up with Superman in the speed department, but i don't see why he shouldn't be able to react well enough.

Check my re-edited post again and I think you'll need to come back with something else with the added scans I've put in since your reply. I'm aware of Hulk's speed tackle since I'm reading the series and all and it's really good but he's not moving his fists at those speeds to hit people. The same cannot be said for Superman who has two confirmed speed blitz instances as per the ones I've shown and multiple fast moving feats too. As I said, check my re-edited post to see some more scans and explanations of them.

#36 Edited by Cor_Tsar (1255 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc: No he's not. He's fast for sure, but as already stated, it's not like Hulk can't at least react to him. A slow heavy weight vs a fast nearly perfect heavy weight can still get a counter in if they're doing something dumb. Right there, what Superman is doing, that's dumb. It's either that he under-estimates his opponents skill and speed, or he's just being dumb. Hulk's fist is bigger than Superman's head and shoulders, he's gonna play handball with Supes if the man of steel does something like that.

#37 Posted by Mxyzptlk_CV (1115 posts) - - Show Bio

The team. EASILY. Superman can already solo Hulk.

#38 Posted by Dratini1331 (7001 posts) - - Show Bio

@cor_tsar: You'd be pretty hard pressed to actually put thor on Superman's speed levels in combat. Outside of throwing his hammer, he isn't all that fast.

Dunno about the others, I really haven't seen the Icy River scans, but I'm just saying that absolute Zero is jsut kinda weaksauce in comics most of the time. For something theoretically is the absence of energy on the molecular level, it tends not to do much damage.

#39 Posted by RogueShadow (10036 posts) - - Show Bio

@soothing_sounds: Nice scenario.

Genuinely not sure, I've barely read any of the N52 stuff. I'll wait to see some more scans and arguments and then I'll make a decision.

#40 Posted by SOG7dc (6713 posts) - - Show Bio

@cor_tsar: It's not dumb If you're both faster and stronger than your opponent. To say hulk could land a blow is to say he could read every medical text ever written in five minutes. To say he could land a blow is to say he could land a barrage of blows on someone like Orion like superman did. Hulk can do neither of those things. Could hulk tag Barry Allen? Not at all. Superman did. There is no eventuality that hulk could hit superman without PIS

#41 Posted by green_skaar (4415 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@cor_tsar: It's not dumb If you're both faster and stronger than your opponent. To say hulk could land a blow is to say he could read every medical text ever written in five minutes. To say he could land a blow is to say he could land a barrage of blows on someone like Orion like superman did. Hulk can do neither of those things. Could hulk tag Barry Allen? Not at all. Superman did. There is no eventuality that hulk could hit superman without PIS

I disagree. It's not like the only people that have ever and will ever hit Superman have to be able to "read every medical text..." or "land a barrage of blows on X..."

#42 Posted by SOG7dc (6713 posts) - - Show Bio
#43 Posted by green_skaar (4415 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@green_skaar: Yeah. It's called plot.

There are other possible explanations other than plot.

#44 Posted by Cor_Tsar (1255 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc: Same as the person above me, all Hulk has to do is throw a punch fast at a big blue/red blur(which would be going slower to him than us). Hulk's good at throwing fast punches, Hulk's strong, this equates to great easy counter. Remember Hulk moves faster than he thinks. I could also bring in the old Wonder Woman faster than Superman scan to prove the point. Hulk's also been showing some impressive mind reaction speeds, though i doubt he thinks as fast as he can throw a punch. Hulk can't do the things you said, but he can throw a fast strong punch at a character that would stupidly just rush someone. It's like he's asking to be countered.

#45 Edited by Lvenger (18440 posts) - - Show Bio

@cor_tsar said:

@sog7dc: Same as the person above me, all Hulk has to do is throw a punch fast at a big blue/red blur(which would be going slower to him than us). Hulk's good at throwing fast punches, Hulk's strong, this equates to great easy counter. Remember Hulk moves faster than he thinks. I could also bring in the old Wonder Woman faster than Superman scan to prove the point. Hulk's also been showing some impressive mind reaction speeds, though i doubt he thinks as fast as he can throw a punch. Hulk can't do the things you said, but he can throw a fast strong punch at a character that would stupidly just rush someone. It's like he's asking to be countered.

But Superman is far too fast for Hulk to tag normally. If Hulk throws a punch, it's more likely Superman will dodge it and counter with another assault than it is likely that Hulk will be able to make multiple connections with Superman, enough to really damage Superman and sway the outcome in his favour. Anyway, this ignores the prep side of things too.

#46 Edited by Fallschirmjager (15283 posts) - - Show Bio

Lex with prep can counter or better anything Banner can do with prep. (Superman is pretty damn smart himself btw)

And Superman beats Hulk straight up.

Don't see how Hulk stands any chance.

#47 Edited by Dextersinister (5795 posts) - - Show Bio

@cor_tsar: There is no Wonder Woman faster than Superman scan, there is a comment where she is saying she is faster but at the end of the day that's just unproven hyperbole, when someone can move fast enough that the world seems frozen and carry out there everyday business then they are clearly operating on another level. Superman could draw a dick on his head and walk away with out him even knowing he was there.

#48 Posted by SOG7dc (6713 posts) - - Show Bio
#49 Posted by green_skaar (4415 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@green_skaar: Lol lay them all out

Opening a request with laughter makes me question if my points would be taken seriously at all and therefore worth spending time on.

#50 Posted by Zmasonite (1001 posts) - - Show Bio