Hulk or Lobo?

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TifaLockhart

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#1  Edited By TifaLockhart

Who gets downplayed more here?

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venomoushatred1001

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Hulk.

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TifaLockhart

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#3  Edited By TifaLockhart

@venomoushatred1001 said:

Hulk.

Straight from the horse's mouth.

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venomoushatred1001

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@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia said:

@venomoushatred1001 said:

Hulk.

Straight from the horse's mouth.

Elaborate, mortal.

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rico_3088

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#5  Edited By rico_3088

hulk for sure, he can't beat anybody on comicvine

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TifaLockhart

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#6  Edited By TifaLockhart

@venomoushatred1001: It's no secret. We all know about your disdain for the Hulk. So much, that you derailed my thread earlier.

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HughJass

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#7  Edited By HughJass

Now that you mention it, I don't think I've ever seen Hulk win a battle on these forums...

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Atomic_Punk

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#8  Edited By Atomic_Punk

Hulk for sure. He gets NO respect on here. Every single impressive feat he has is apparently "PIS" for Hulk...

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venomoushatred1001

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@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia said:

@venomoushatred1001: It's no secret. We all know about your disdain for the Hulk. So much, that you derailed my thread earlier.

News flash: I don't hate the hate the Hulk. I am actually a fan. I just don't like it when he fights and beat someone who is out of his league. Ex: Thor.

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TifaLockhart

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#10  Edited By TifaLockhart

@venomoushatred1001: Yeah, that would explain why you downplay him, given that he gives Thor so much trouble in the comics.

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venomoushatred1001

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@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia said:

@venomoushatred1001: Yeah, that would explain why you downplay him, given that he gives Thor so much trouble in the comics.

Say I'm downplaying the Hulk or not, but the only reason he gives Thor trouble is because Thor holds back on Hulk. This has been stated several times in the comics. The only time Thor didn't hold back on Hulk was when he was Nul, and when he was Mindless Hulk. The only reason the latter stood up to him was because he got madder (which means he got stronger and more durable) to dam near everything he saw. That is the truth.

He also beat Gladiator, Hyperion, Sentry, Firelord, and even Doctor Strange, who are all well above him.

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the_stegman

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#12  Edited By the_stegman  Moderator

well...technically Hulk is downplayed more, but for good reason since he is often paired up against people he really shouldn't be able to beat

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TifaLockhart

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#13  Edited By TifaLockhart

@venomoushatred1001: Was mindless the one who attacked with the adamantium statue?

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venomoushatred1001

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@The Stegman said:

well...technically Hulk is downplayed more, but for good reason since he is often paired up against people he really shouldn't be able to beat

Exactly.

@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia said:

@venomoushatred1001: Was mindless the one who attacked with the adamantium statue?

Yup.

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TifaLockhart

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#15  Edited By TifaLockhart

@venomoushatred1001: Thanks.

Normal Hulk has the whole madder/stronger thing going for him too.

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thanobomb1124

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#16  Edited By thanobomb1124

Hulk wins

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YoggSaron

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#17  Edited By YoggSaron

Hulk does get downplayed more. Though I am glad this is one of the few sites on the Internet that doesn't treat Hulk like he's some unbeatable god.

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TifaLockhart

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#18  Edited By TifaLockhart

@YoggSaron: It is cool at first, but two wrongs don't make a right.

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venomoushatred1001

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@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia said:

@venomoushatred1001: Thanks.

Normal Hulk has the whole madder/stronger thing going for him too.

I know.

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#20  Edited By Saren

Eh, I've never liked the Hulk. Never seen the appeal of the character. Lobo gets downplayed a lot too, if you try to argue for him people will start saying "he's a joke character, DC's Squirrel Girl, all his feats are because of the Toon Force" etc.

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sandiego008

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#21  Edited By sandiego008

@Atomic_Punk said:

Hulk for sure. He gets NO respect on here. Every single impressive feat he has is apparently "PIS" for Hulk...

This

@The Stegman said:

well...technically Hulk is downplayed more, but for good reason since he is often paired up against people he really shouldn't be able to beat

Reason he is in those battles is because he has crazy feats that put him on that level, however in this forum all his feats are PIS and all batmans insane feats are legit. Big sad part is Hulk is crippled on these forums because he doesn't have speed ... and every feat where he has tagged fast people that has speed is considered PIS or them slowing down/holding back ... even though it happens OVER and OVER again. Not saying he can beat some of these fast people but people arguing that he can't hit them is seriously downplaying his reaction time as he has probably hit every fast character on marvel universe. Speed =/= reaction time.

@CitizenBane said:

Eh, I've never liked the Hulk. Never seen the appeal of the character. Lobo gets downplayed a lot too, if you try to argue for him people will start saying "he's a joke character, DC's Squirrel Girl, all his feats are because of the Toon Force" etc.

Well when you become basically unkillable and have ridiculous feats you have to see this coming. Unless someone can negotiate with the heavens or hells ... he really has toon force no matter how you look at it. I mean the man made a city the size of a gumball ... That feat makes superman look like a mouse as it is physically impossible unless you consider it matter manipulation.

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jashro44

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#22  Edited By jashro44

Hulk stomps........Lobo gets some respect but hulk? No not at all......

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demifiend

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#23  Edited By demifiend

@Atomic_Punk said:

Hulk for sure. He gets NO respect on here. Every single impressive feat he has is apparently "PIS" for Hulk...

this

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Thor_Fanboy

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#24  Edited By Thor_Fanboy

hulk is so underrated

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#25  Edited By demifiend

@Thor_Fanboy said:

hulk is so underrated

agree, in fact he beat thor everytime he wants.

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#26  Edited By Thor_Fanboy

no just no

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TrueIlluminatus

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#27  Edited By TrueIlluminatus
@demifiend said:

@Thor_Fanboy said:

hulk is so underrated

agree, in fact he beat thor everytime he wants.

You're beginning to bear a striking resemblance to a broken record.
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emperorznb

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#28  Edited By emperorznb

@Thor_Fanboy: You're right, every time he pulls off a great feat... everybody says its PIS. Can't they just accept that Hulk just experiences good writing :p

Anyways, I hope to see hulk gets the respect he deserves in some of the threads.

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#29  Edited By Saren

Could someone please explain the appeal of the Hulk to me? Why would anyone like a character whose entire personality is summed up in his catchphrase?

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#30  Edited By Billy Batson

@CitizenBane said:

Could someone please explain the appeal of the Hulk to me? Why would anyone like a character whose entire personality is summed up in his catchphrase?

most likely it's the Bruce Banner persona that appeals.
BB

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#31  Edited By Mortein

So it's hulk again.

Whenever Hulk fight someone like Silver Surfer or Thor, he shouldn't even be able to touch them, unless:

1. He has at least near light speed fighting speed

2. SS and Thor don't have ftl fighting speed

Also, power of the impact depends on the speed and mass, so he shouldn't be able to punch as hard as Thor or SS, unless:

1. He has at least near light speed fighting speed

2. SS and Thor don't have ftl fighting speed

Now since I do belive that Thor and SS are FTL, and I belive that Hulk is at best only massively hypersonic, obvious conclusion I can make is that Hulk should have no chance in hell against them.

Now when we add to this other abilities SS and Thor have, like transmutation, energy absorption, flight etc. it becomes obvious that it would be insane to put someone like SS or Thor against Hulk.

This is why, everytime Hulk puts a fight against someone like they are I call that PIS.

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czarny_samael666

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#32  Edited By czarny_samael666
@Atomic_Punk said:

Hulk for sure. He gets NO respect on here. Every single impressive feat he has is apparently "PIS" for Hulk...

Exaples? 
@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia said:

@venomoushatred1001: Yeah, that would explain why you downplay him, given that he gives Thor so much trouble in the comics.

This is PIS. There is no reason thanks to which brute with weakness can give trouble to a god with almost all powers that ever existed. 
Hulk,Lobo,Red Hulk and all people like them have to lose to people like Surfer/Atom/Thor. They aren't stronger than Surfer for example, but Surfer has almost all powers, so he ahve to win in stomp. The same with Thor and Atom. 
@CitizenBane said:

Eh, I've never liked the Hulk. Never seen the appeal of the character. Lobo gets downplayed a lot too, if you try to argue for him people will start saying "he's a joke character, DC's Squirrel Girl, all his feats are because of the Toon Force" etc.


Years ago I've read much more comics with Lobo.  He always would have my respect for not being a p##sy. 
I loved Planet Hulk concept, but since WWH, Hulk again is only PIS charcater. I hope that it will change with his new series (first issue was really good IMO). Since Rulk isn't in Loeb hands his adventures are also pretty intresting (a specially now with Machine Man). 
@venomoushatred1001 said:

@The Stegman said:

well...technically Hulk is downplayed more, but for good reason since he is often paired up against people he really shouldn't be able to beat

Exactly.


Agree. 
@venomoushatred1001 said:

@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia said:

@venomoushatred1001: Yeah, that would explain why you downplay him, given that he gives Thor so much trouble in the comics.

Say I'm downplaying the Hulk or not, but the only reason he gives Thor trouble is because Thor holds back on Hulk. This has been stated several times in the comics. The only time Thor didn't hold back on Hulk was when he was Nul, and when he was Mindless Hulk. The only reason the latter stood up to him was because he got madder (which means he got stronger and more durable) to dam near everything he saw. That is the truth.

He also beat Gladiator, Hyperion, Sentry, Firelord, and even Doctor Strange, who are all well above him.

And when he was soulless as a King Thor without OF, Mjolnir and one hand.
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TheGoldenOne

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#33  Edited By TheGoldenOne
@demifiend said:

@Thor_Fanboy said:

hulk is so underrated

agree, in fact he beat thor everytime he wants.

lol, No.
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czarny_samael666

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#34  Edited By czarny_samael666
@TheGoldenOne said:
@demifiend said:

@Thor_Fanboy said:

hulk is so underrated

agree, in fact he beat thor everytime he wants.

lol, No.
She is trolling in all Thor/Hulk battles. Even if Thor isn't a part of them, she still brings Thor there.
In answer You can always show her King Thor who was first Thor that didn't have morlas since Odin took his human part before his death, who killed Thing and Hulk without OF,Mjolnir and one arm:
Bloodlusted-weakned Thor vs. Hulk and Thing part 1
Bloodlusted-weakned Thor vs. Hulk and Thing part 1
Bloodlusted-weakned Thor vs. Hulk and Thing part 2
Bloodlusted-weakned Thor vs. Hulk and Thing part 2
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Chibio

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#35  Edited By Chibio

Hulk gets downplayed a lot more, but mainly because he is a mainstream character who had many on goings, team ups and so on, while not many people know much about Lobo, so it's hard to compare them, since Hulk has simply more showings. I like Hulk, in fact he is one of my favorites! I think he has an awesome powerset, since superstrenght and superhealing is basically everything you need to be a badass! And the story around him is believeable. The military hunting him, wanting him to become their weapon and so on, it's some really good stuff.
The bad thing about the Hulk is that Marvel let him fight against too many powerhouses, who have a lot more advantage and they let him win fights from time to time even though he shouldn't be able to win such fights, because his opponents have a much bigger variety of powers.
Many of his fights against Thor, Gladiator, Sentry and so on were not good, because Marvel had to downplay other powerhouses so that Hulk could defeat them. Hulks fight against Sentry in WW Hulk was pure Hulk fan service and I enjoyed it, even though he was actually chanceless, because he was outclassed. But during the entire WW Hulk there was a lot of PIS, but that's sometimes the way to write comics. Without PIS Batman would be boring and no one would want to read them, because the same 5 characters would always be on the top and all the others would be chanceless, because they would be to slow to face them at all, since that's basically the main thing about logical comicbook fights! Superman could easily defeat Parasite thanks to the speed advantage. Parasite would never be able to tag and drain Superman. Gladiator would easily defeat Hulk thanks to the speed advantage. Hulk would never be able to tag and harm Gladiator.
The main problem with all comicbook forums, and not only this one, is that people are not willing to judge the battles by comicbook standards! They think way too simple about it all, since they mostly concentrate on 1-2 feats and speed is for everyone the main reason why character A always defeats character B. And Hulk does not  have that speed, but yet he does pretty well in the comics, just like Batman does pretty well with nearly all the meta human he faces and on the other side Superman gets tagged a lot by a lot slower characters and even the Flash gets tagged by someone as Deathstroke. 
While I agree that the speed is important, I still think it should not be taken that seriously, since many things about speed are pure PIS. 
That includes if Silver Surfer fights Thor (in the Mighty Thor comic) and they're both equal in terms of speed, since Silver Surfer isn't using it at all. If he would be using it, Thor would not stand a chance and lose horribly, ending the comic / adventure instantly and everyone would be disappointed. It would be logical, but it would be unsatisfying.
Other scenes are like WW Hulks fight against Sentry or Gladiator. He tags them, he beats them, but they never use their speed to overwhelm him with many punches. 
And then there are moments like Deathstrokes fight against the Justice League where he tags the Flash. This is always a highly debated point, since people tend to say that he knows Flash and that he had some kind of prep to face Flash, but that is simply not true. It is pure PIS so that Deathstroke can do something for the plot and proceed with his plan. In fact Flash would be able to circle around the globe and eat few pizzas in Italy and then return back to Deathstroke, before Deathstroke even managed to turn around. Then few punches to the head and it would be over. 
It's not how gets downplayed more: It's who had the power of the PIS on his side during the years and even though I really like the Hulk, I have to say that he is very protected by a good amount of PIS which lets him fight against superior powerhouses.

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TifaLockhart

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#36  Edited By TifaLockhart

@czarny_samael666: At least you admit it happens in comics.

BTW, why do you say Surfer is stronger (I assume you mean physical strength) than Lobo?

@CitizenBane: Probably because every boy wants to be the strongest. *shrugs*

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Killemall

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#37  Edited By Killemall

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia said:

@venomoushatred1001: Yeah, that would explain why you downplay him, given that he gives Thor so much trouble in the comics.

Say I'm downplaying the Hulk or not, but the only reason he gives Thor trouble is because Thor holds back on Hulk. This has been stated several times in the comics. The only time Thor didn't hold back on Hulk was when he was Nul, and when he was Mindless Hulk. The only reason the latter stood up to him was because he got madder (which means he got stronger and more durable) to dam near everything he saw. That is the truth.

He also beat Gladiator, Hyperion, Sentry, Firelord, and even Doctor Strange, who are all well above him.

  • Strength wise i think Hulk could take on Thor, although that is arguable, but then thats my opinion, but as long as thor has the hammer him losing against hulk is a bad writing.
  • Lets add beating memphisto in hell to that list too shall we ?? :)
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TifaLockhart

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#38  Edited By TifaLockhart

If Hulk doesn't have superspeed (I don't think he has much of it, if at all), there's the possibility that the "speedsters" he tags really aren't as fast (reflex wise) as people would like to believe they are.

I'm not stating as fact that is the case, but to my knowledge no one has addressed that point.

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venomoushatred1001

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@demifiend said:

@Thor_Fanboy said:

hulk is so underrated

agree, in fact he beat thor everytime he wants.

NO.

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#40  Edited By Chibio
@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia said:

If Hulk doesn't have superspeed (I don't think he has much of it, if at all), there's the possibility that the "speedsters" he tags really aren't as fast (reflex wise) as people would like to believe they are.

If they can catch bullets, then they should also have the reflexes and the speed to avoid Hulks attacks, yet they're still never doing it, because the Hulk would be chanceless and that's not the point of comics!
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TifaLockhart

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#41  Edited By TifaLockhart

@Chibio: Hulk caught a bullet in his teeth. Lobo caught 3 in his teeth at point blank range.

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Chibio

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#42  Edited By Chibio
@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia said:

@Chibio: Hulk caught a bullet in his teeth. Lobo caught 3 in his teeth at point blank range.

Lobo is a complicated character! But the question applies even for him right now: Did they catch the bullet when it was in the same line as their teeth, or did someone shoot them into the mouth, and since even their mouth has a great durability, the bullet bounced off and they pushed it between the teeth?
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TifaLockhart

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#43  Edited By TifaLockhart

It was Jack T. Chance. He had Lobo's chain caught on something for a moment, but his Green Lantern ring prevented him from using lethal force, so he stole Lobo's gun and fired three shots with intent to kill, "say cheese!"

Lobo says "cheese" headbutts him, and the fight continued.

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czarny_samael666

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#44  Edited By czarny_samael666
@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia said:

If Hulk doesn't have superspeed (I don't think he has much of it, if at all), there's the possibility that the "speedsters" he tags really aren't as fast (reflex wise) as people would like to believe they are.

I'm not stating as fact that is the case, but to my knowledge no one has addressed that point.

Speedsters almost never used they speed as they should. If they will, Quicksilver and Flash will be rulers of their Earths. That is the point with overpower characaters:
They aren't allowed to use their powers in full by writers. 
Did You've seen Thor vs. Count Nefaria on Earth? And BRB vs. Stardust in space? 
Thor barely destroyed few streets. BRB destroyed planets. And both were supposed to have a hard time. 
Earth based heroes, even if they can destroy planets, never do this. But it doesn't mean that we can say that they can only , becuase they there is possiblity that they can. 
They (as speedsters) has to prove that. And Thor, Flash, Superman, Surfer... They proved it. Hulk didn't. WB Hulk is the only one with planet busting feat, but Hulk himself can survive one that powerfull shot (if it comes from brute strength, energy projection).
 
Ergo:
Hulk and Lobo should lose speedsters.
Brutes should lose to even people a little weaker than them, if these people have as many power as Surfer or Thor.
 
@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia said:

@czarny_samael666: At least you admit it happens in comics.

BTW, why do you say Surfer is stronger (I assume you mean physical strength) than Lobo?

@CitizenBane: Probably because every boy wants to be the strongest. *shrugs*


Of course it happens in comics. Many PIS moments happens.
 
EDIT:
About Surfer:
He defeated Hulk on Skaar, but what is more important, he currently is one-shotting beings in Thor level and his board can survive Mjolnir like nothing.