Hulk and Thor vs Shazam and Superman

Marvel: Hulk and Thor

VERSUS

DC: Superman and Shazam

Team vs Team

Hulk and Thor versus Superman and Shazam ?

Who will win and Why ?

If it is regular Hulk, the supermen win

Team 2.

i think superman and cap got this one. in my mind i always see superman being slightly above hulk due to his speed advantage and versatility (having too many different powers). War World Hulk will stalemate superman similar to the doomsday fight. shazam vs thor is a more interesting fight. i think thor can take him down with mjolnir but it would be a long fight.

so in one on one, superman beats or stalemates hulk and thor beats marvel. but if you add the teamwork factor, i think supes and cap will work a little better than hulk and thor. bottom line i think dc team takes this one

@dilw4r: You should be a little more specific in OP when you make your threads.

Shazam and superman pull a winn except if it is animayed version.

Team DC. Hulk not being able to fly kills their chances.

Hulk is a huge let down for Thor, he gets dispatched quickly. Thor's going to have a heck of a time trying to fight Clark and Billy.

Hulk is the weaklink Team 2

Depends on the Hulk, team 2 as of right now

Team 2

If it's new 52 versions then i don't see how team dc win, solely because Billy's a weak link as far as I'm aware. I also fail to see how hulks a weak link, considering he's the strongest and most durable guy here.

@thedailybagel: I agree, but Hulk isn't necessarily the strongest or most durable one here. He's also too one dimensional having only physical strength.

@heirtothekingdom: he is the strongest and most durable person here, thor is the overal most 'powerful' due to mjolnir but supes is the most efficient due to his speed. He can take either of team 1 on and win, albeit with difficulty. I can't say the same for billy.

Team 2..

Team 1 hulk can at least distract him and I'm certain Thor can take shazam

Current Hulk can beat Superman like 1/2 out of 10 times, but he's not doing it more than that. The writers kind of showed that when they had him lose to that alternate reality Superman like writer. Also Hulk may be stronger, but Thor strikes the hardest here, and Hulk being the most durable is debatable, but I think we agree that Hulk and Thor win this battle.

@heirtothekingdom: id say it'd be a bit less than that, but he'd make supes work for it everytime. As for the sun-God instance: hulk was weakened, prior to the fight banner used something on hulk to make him less angry and more controllable, so he had a reason as to why he got stomped.

And yeah, we agree on that.

Superman and Captain Marvel win.

Superman solo.

Is this Billy Batson Captain Marvel? If so, Thor can turn him back into his much weaker child form, and he commands any and all lightning, including the Shazam lightning, if he wanted to, he could just spend the whole fight preventing Billy Batson from turning back, and then tap him on the forehead to knock him out.

And knowing Hulk, he'd be keeping Superman busy at least, and even if Thor had an actual fight with Captain Marvel, Hulk could win. Hulk not being able to fly has never stopped him before. None of Superman's ranged attacks would be effective whatsoever. He has slapped Gladiator's beams right back into his eyes, and he could just flex and break out of the ice breath. He'd have to get into close quarters, and Hulk could easily react to Superman if he was in the atmosphere. At that point, Hulk is stronger than Superman in any purely physical confrontation, and while Superman has speed, Hulk has durability on-par with his, and a healing factor to back it up, so he'd stay in this fight, and keep fighting, far longer.

Should this turn into a double team, Superman stands no chance of winning, none.

Variations of this have been done in the past. They're not identical to the OP, so I'll just post these for reference sake.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/thor-and-hulk-vs-superman-and-captain-marvel-582775/

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/hulk-and-thor-vs-superman-and-shazam-1599946/

@thedailybagel: I see, I understand.

@dilw4r: Team DC. Because there is a significant speed differential between these characters.

Thor is around a bullet timer. But Superman is a bona fide significant fraction of the speed of light. Hulk has no speed to come close to reacting to Superman or Captain Marvel.

Team DC destroys.

what version of hulk... because ive seen soem versions of hulk taken out very quickly, and other versions not so much....

Shazam and Supes.

Too fast and can fly.

@conner_wolf: If this is New 52 Billy, he has to want to turn back when the lighting hits him to turn back to a boy, otherwise it doesn't work. But Hulk and Thor still win. Superman can beat either in a 1 on 1 fight, but Billy has next to no feats of strength or durability. He is fast, having travelled at hyper sonic speeds alongside Wonder Woman but thats it.

@luciferousabyss: Thor is able to easily react at nanosecond speeds, just like Superman is. Stop downplaying Thor's abilities.

And Hulk has shown to be able to deal easily with speed.

@klaus: Hence why I specified Billy Batson Pre-52.

Also, I thought it was William Batson in the Nu52?

As for your claim of Superman beating Hulk and Thor, he wouldn't beat either individually, that's just simple fact.

He has a decent chance against Hulk, but there is no guarantee, and Hulk would only win 6/10 times, but Hulk is not going to be easily beaten.

@conner_wolf: When has Thor reacted in nanoseconds?

@stormdriven: Thor reacts in nanosecondswhen he goes against fighters like Silver Surfer who can literally cross a solar system in microseconds-which means at close range, he would be reacting at nanoseconds-and he easily reacts to his energy blasts, which move at the same speed, and he reacts to Gladiator who has incredible speed of his own, he reacts to Hyperion who has those speeds, he reacts to his own hammer as it moves at incredible speeds inches from his face-and his hammer does move FTL, and while it was doing this it was trying to kill him with it's full power.

He reacts in nanoseconds, he just doesn't need to most of the time, but he can clearly do it.

I've never actually seen examples of Superman reacting in nanoseconds.

Thor has nanosecond reaction time, he speedblitzes everyone even the flash! Nanosecond > attosecond THOR MASTER RACE! THOR > TRASH > SUPERMAN

@conner_wolf: Superman is stronger than both Thor and Hulk (base) having lifted the weight of Earth, pushed Warworld and pushed half of Braniacs ship which is 5 times the earth's size. He has shown to be multiple times the speed of light in travel speed, and has used combat speed against Flash and Orion. He survived a nuke point blank while so weak he couldn't fly. Hulk isn't strong or fast enough to face Superman, and neither is Thor.

@w0nd: current versions are what we go by if it's not specified.

I dont see Team 2 losing .

@klaus: No. No he's not.

Superman only pushed the Warworld when he was sundipped and he only pushed half of Brainiac's ship, and he was in orbit where he's stronger, and he was using his flight to boost up his own strength and add velocity.

Thor's strength-His most famous feat of all time is his lifting the Midgard Serpent, and it's the weight of the earth, now the earth weighs about 6.6 Sextillion tons, but let’s go beyond that, a little deeper.

Now as a mystical serpent constricting down on a planet, we can only assume it's stronger than an earthly creature, but let's use one as a comparison. An Anaconda weighing 550 pounds was measured as exerting over 90 pounds per square inch of force during an act of constriction, this equals a total force of over 8,818 pounds, or roughly, 16 times its bodyweight.

Now when we factor in that the Midgard Serpent was in fact exerting an additional sixteen times its weight in resistance due to being coiled around the earth at the time Thor hoisted it off, that would mean that the God of Thunder exerted enough strength to break over 105.6 sextillion tons of force, then he still has the weight of the serpent itself that he has to lift, and then toss it into space, which requires even more strength, but to determine that strength it requires knowledge of physics that I do not have. So it's likely that Thor can lift far more, considering his fishing position itself gave him even worse leverage for lifting.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/136540/3163188-3616173502-31588.jpg

Now let me point this out, that's him wrestling around with Hercules, the guy who lifted up the heavens, the God of Power and strength himself, Thor is supposed to be his equal.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/13/136540/3100558-6774139839-10808.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/13/136540/3287237-9141374836-10808.jpg

And here are two panels of Thor resisting the weight of twenty planets like Child's play. 6.6*20=132. So that's 132 Sextillion tons he's under, and he's not budging, and even fighting it. Then, we factor in his warrior's madness and we once again breach Septillion with 1,320 Septillion

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111143187/3969610-thorstrength43494+(1).jpg

Thor also fighting the weight of the Yggdrasil tree, which holds the entire Nine Realms, or Nine Realities. This is the equivalent of lifting this tree high in the air, and he's pushing against that force, the world engine. This is like moving nine entire realities, nine entire universes, nine infinite weights when he pushes himself.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/14/149643/3191402-thor_-_god_of_thunder_009-014.jpg

He held an entire moon together, kept it from falling apart, Our moon weighs around 81 Quintillion Tons, and he kept it together, fighting force enough to split a planet apart, and those forces are around 231,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (231 Sextillion) Tons of Force, which, yes, means Thor can lift Sextillions of Tons of force, more than enough, and a modern scan.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/14/149643/3191459-thormjolnir227-strikingpower.jpg

Thor easily shattering a comet

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/2/28708/724604-thorbrb.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/2/28708/724605-thorbrb2.jpg

And just for good measure, here is Thor and Beta Ray Bill squatting Asgard.

Then I don’t have a scan for it, but in Thor: God of Thunder, Issue #8 Page 73, Thor effortlessly throws a star at the God-Bomb, a star weighs around 2 Octillion tons, rounded down.

Thor has enough striking power that his full force can cause nearby star systems to shake

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11113/111132618/3528463-thor+shook+the+stars.jpg

And he was able to bust many, many stars

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11113/111132618/3528779-walt+simonson+vol+1.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11113/111132618/3528780-walt+simonson+vol+1.2.jpg

He only had half the power of it, the other half being Beta Ray Bill, but this would take hundreds of Octillions of tons of strength. This thing dwarfed and contained stars, the amount of energy and durability it would need is beyond planetary, beyond the weight of those stars it contains, it would weigh possibly Nonillions of tons and require hundreds of times more force to destroy. This is also a durability feat as he stood directly in the blast, which means we can count this as standing the force of just as many Supernovas.

And to really finalize this, Thor can hit so hard, that the shockwaves _destroy_ nearby planetary objects

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11113/111132618/3528538-thor+multi-planet+buster2.jpg

Beyond this he has feats of crushing the heart of Demorgore-whom the writer compared to Eternity-knocking out the Phoenix Force, Bullrushed Galactus, has caused harm to Skyfather beings and defeated beings like Glory, and matched them in brute strength, splitting a mile-long spacecraft in half, Knocks out the Lord of Will, and he even broke through the god bomb.

Thor's Speed-Thor has many feats of punking both Quicksilver, and even Hermes, the greek god of speed, but that's not it.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/13/136540/3288303-1359551393-thor_.jpg

This is Thor inside a solar system attempting to catch up with a large starship that's already flown out of the solar system. Now as we can see here Thor speaks "Increase my speed a hundredfold" now while this may be a simple exaggeration, let's look at it like this. To move at 9x the speed of light between the sun and earth takes two minutes, this took Thor seconds to catch up with this starship, outside of an entire solar system. To give you an idea of just how big out own solar system is, check this out.

http://joshworth.com/dev/pixelspace/pixelspace_solarsystem.html

Scroll through this entire thing, this is the entirety of our solar system if the moon were only one pixel. Now Thor flew out of that in mere seconds, which means he had to be going far, far beyond 9x the speed of light to make it there in about, two, three seconds max. In the actual math, we have Thor moving around 540x the speed of light in order to match that in seconds. But to move from the suns-which you can plainly see-to even the distance of Pluto, we'd need to increase that by a multiple of 39.5. When we do that, Thor traveled at a speed of around 21330x the speed of light. That equals about 6394573129140(6 Trillion) Meters per second, but in Miles per hour, he's moving at 14304252704769.15(14 Trillion) MPH. In the metric system, that's 23020463264904.003906 (23 Trillion) KPH

Now, pile this up against Superman's fastest speeds that have been mentioned, we have Superman at about 15x the speed of light at 15 Billion KPH, and Thor exceeding that 1422 times.

But that's not it, The ship Thor is chasing after is //also// moving faster than the speed of light, and his goal is to overtake the ship itself, and apparently he dropped out of that speed to do so because if he didn't, he most likely would have caused such a ripple in space-time around the vessel that it would have torn it apart.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa469/R-O-O/Thor/AlterEgo2.jpg

Outspeeding Ego the living Planet, who can enter Hyperspace, thousands upon thousands of times faster than Lightspeed

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/13/136540/3087764-0414003828-ThorS.jpg

Here, just to prove my point, is Thor flying at 3x the speed of light with relative ease.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/10/109250/2276987-1461704-thor_vs_sentry_09_super.jpg

Yet another speed feat that only further proves my point, he travels from the sun to the earth in a matter of seconds.

And then on top of it, Thor can swing his hammer 2x as fast as he can fly with it, which means in a fight itself he can swing Mjolnir at 46 Trillion MPH

But wait, there’s one more.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11/114312/2142346-thormjolnir116_speedwhomthegodswoul.jpg

He threw his hammer to the farthest reaches of the Galaxy, it came back in a few seconds.Our Galaxy is 100,000 light years across, and it went across then back, 200,000 lightyears, and that means to go there and back in about three seconds is 66,666x lightspeed at the very most.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/111099/2891541-thor_ftl_speed.jpg

And then he's also crossed the universe in a few seconds before, which makes him infinitely fast.

Thor's agility/reflexes-Thor's able to not only react to, but effectively catch and even reflect blasts of energy and objects moving far faster than the speed of light.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/13/136540/3288277-2357050609-Thor-.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/13/136540/3288279-9913040221-Thor-.jpg

This is Thor moving so fast that even Heimdall couldn't see him, a guy endowed with Super senses, able to hear the grass grow, the sap running in the trees or the beating of the wings of a butterfly on the other side of the galaxy and whose eyes see light years away.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/13/136540/3060228-4328415102-ThorS.jpg

Thor refleting Blastaar's rays in a manner of Nanoseconds

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/13/136540/3060205-7057124105-ThorS.jpg

Here's a recent feat for him, dodging his own hammer when it was moving at insane speeds about two and a half feet from his face. (2000)

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/13/136540/3288406-9873353835-Defea.jpg

Thor stating himself he's beaten people faster than Quicksilver as he kicks his ass (No stated volume or date)

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/13/136540/3288414-4337337018-ThorS.jpg

The Wrecker's Crowbar being grabbed by Thor as it was merely inched from his head (2000)

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/13/136540/3288416-2379835377-ThorS.jpg

Thor catching Bor's-his Grandfather's-axe as it was inches from his face (2009)

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/13/136540/3060226-2133971013-ThorS.jpg

Thor deflecting energy blasts (1999)

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/14/149643/3512649-7231414.jpg

Thor Speed-Blitzing Advanced Alien Kree Tech

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/11113/111132855/3421797-thor+deflects+hyperion.jpg

Thor reacting to Hyperion easily, who can move many times the speed of light.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/14/149643/3512670-hero-envy-thorvssilversurfer11mightythor3.jpg

Reacting to Silver Surfer’s power cosmic, which can move at untold speeds

Here's some of Thor's Durability-I've shown you resisting the weight of those planets, and now here's another panel

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/13/136540/3089400-3809911815-ThorD.jpg

This is Thor resisting Hellfire like it's nothing, Ghost Rider's Hellfire.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/13/136540/3060333-1222640302-ThorS.jpg

This is Thor resisting the gravity pull of a Neutron Star, A neutron star has 200 billion times the gravity of earth. That level of acceleration means a neutron star's gravity is faster than light.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/13/136540/3089409-6048970443-ThorD.jpg

This is Thor just standing in the center of the sun, having a casual conversation with his brother.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/13/136540/3089410-1022824661-ThorD.jpg

Thor resisting Arctic forces

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/13/136540/3089411-9041351334-ThorD.jpg

Thor resisting the power of an exploding sun

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/13/136540/3089416-7052937340-ThorD.jpg

Thor getting hit with a lot of electricity, apparently it's like food for him, and as a guy who controls lightning and thunder, this is a big advantage.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/13/136540/3089417-9568083783-ThorD.jpg

Thor being rocked by multiple solar system-destroying blasts from a Celestial, and coming out strong.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/10/109250/2276991-1627807-red_hulk_vs_thor_11_super.jpg

This one goes under durability and speed I suppose, but saving Red Hulk from a Black Hole, and resisting the extreme gravitational pull.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorDurability39v225Energy.jpg

Thor surviving a blast from Thanos that could destroy a planet

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorDurability42v280.jpg

Surviving four Mjolnir-level attacks

Thor’s Endurance-This one may be similar to Durability, but there’s a difference, durability is how much damage you can take and what you can resist, Endurance is how long you can keep going.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/14/149643/3512615-thor-_026-027.jpg

Thor fought the Dead for Forty Days and Forty Nights.

Thor's advanced musculature is considerably more efficient than that of most other Asgardians. As a result, his muscles produce practically no fatigue toxins during physical activity compared to those of humans and most other members of his race. He possesses virtually inexhaustible stamina and can exert himself at peak capacity for countless months, at the very least, without tiring at all. Thor was able to engage the entire Frost Giants army nonstop for more than 9 months straight without any sustenance or rest. Thor was even able to fight and stalemate the Sky father Zeus uninterrupted while the months, and consequently the Trojan War, raced by Hela herself mentioned that Thor could fight on for however long it takes.

Energy Projection-Thor is the God of Thunder, Lord of Lightning, his energy projection is one of his greatest abilities

Thor’s lightning is able to phase Mikaboshi who consumed about 98% of the Multiverse.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/129659/3497134-thor+2.jpg

He’s been able to mold a planet back together with his lightning

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/14/149643/3191402-thor_-_god_of_thunder_009-014.jpg

This one isn’t so much a combat feat, but he makes it rain fire

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_small/14/149643/3191495-thor_-_god_of_thunder_008-014.jpg

He summons a whirlwind, just wind, that’s able to cause a being equal to a bloodlusted Odin massive pain.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/116968/2878840-564900-493934-thorvsglory04.jpg

His storms alone can block world-destroying blasts

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/35308/2744566-thor33.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/35308/2744567-thor34.jpg

Thor showing off his ability to absorb the Null Bomb, which can destroy a Galaxy.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Mjolnir/ThorMjolnir149-EnergyAbsorption.jpg

Thor absorbing the energy directly out of an opponent.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Mjolnir/ThorMjolnir189-EnergyAbsorptionv244.jpg

Thor showing he can absorb and redirect energy back a hundred times more powerful than what he absorbs. From Kang, and Thanos respectively

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Mjolnir/ThorMjolnir193-EnergyAbsorptionAEMH.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Mjolnir/ThorMjolnir184-EnergyAbsorptionv222.jpg

Then, on top of all of this, around others, he always holds back.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11111/111119363/3198496-thorman8.jpg

Thor straight-up stating he holds back all the time, he does it to protect mortals around him, and even here we don’t see the full extent of his power.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorRestraint02Avengers304.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorRestraint03v212.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorRestraint04v228.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorRestraint05v235.jpg

Thor showing how much more powerful he is when he stops holding back

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorRestraint07Annualv21.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorRestraint08.jpg

Thor is stronger than Superman.

And Hulk is always portrayed as physically stronger than Thor, restraining him with one arm, even while in the Warrior's Madness, but of course Thor's energy projection evens this out, but Hulk is stronger. He has ridiculous feats of matching Celestials in raw power, punching through the fabric of space and time, having the durability to survive a machine that crushes Adamantium with it's sharp dog-like jaws, right at his neck, he's ripped apart Adamantium-Thor can barely dent secondary Adamantium while holding back-reacting to FTL attacks from Gladiator, Hyperion, Thor, and Silver Surfer.

Then on top of it, Hulk has the healing factor which means he can fight longer, keep fighting no matter how much damage you pour on him, etc...

Team 2 without much trouble

I've never seen Thor react in the nano second frame. That would put him at FTL reflexes which Thor doesn't have.

He caught Mjolnir once while it was flying towards him at full speed. Aka FTL.

I'm not even sure Supes or Shazam have FTL reflexes.

@luciferousabyss: Except he does, under what assumption do you have that he doesn't?

Both Hulk and Thor deal with the speed of Sentry, Gladiator, Hyperion, Silver Surfer, hell, no matter what speed Thor is moving he's able to function completely normally and just do his thing.

Not really. The scan says Thor reacted in a microsecond, which is a millionth of a second. The distance light travels in a microsecond is about 300 metres. So, for Thor to have reacted at faster than light speeds, he would have to have reacted within a much greater area in the microsecond than what the scan clearly shows.

Shazam does not have FTL reflexes but seems to be on par with Superman reaction speed. Superman as far as I'm aware does not have FTL reflexes but is somewhere just under light speed. He trumps Thor in reaction speed by a fair margin.

Fair enough

Thor is still no slouch in the reaction department. He has reacted to Hyperion's speed blitzes and even during a fight with Iron Man (Extremis Armor) deflects a speed blitz from him and strikes the former with a lighting bolt before he could react. Superman would blitz Thor if he went all out, but it's not a game over for Thor.

Team 2.

Respectfully disagree. I agree Thor has super speed, just not on par with Superman who has many, many scans indicating he can react at very close to the speed of light. In my humble opinion, Thor is virtually a statue to Superman.

If he was going all out maybe. Superman rarely fights as fast as most try to make it seem, if he moved this fast all the time he wouldn't be tagged by slower bricks all time. This same logic also applies to Thor, who he himself has taken down Quicksilver in combat (while boasting he's fought much faster) a person who at his top speed Thor shouldn't be able to touch if you think he's that slow. Yet he has, but at the same time has been tagged by slower enemies before.

Team 1.

Yeah, but that's why the battle forum rules are specifically in place to help people weed through PIS. They specifically reference Superman in the battle forum rules. In a battle, each character is assumed going all out. Sorry for the late response by the way.

Everyone has a different opinion about Thor's speed. Around here, it is unpopular to assert Thor has meta human reflexes. But he is certainly not on par with Superman's best reaction feats.