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#1 Posted by brharri (838 posts) - - Show Bio

Each Team has 2 Minutes Prep
2 Miles Apart
K.O.

#2 Posted by charlieboy (7171 posts) - - Show Bio

hulk and magneto ftw. mags has defeated whole x-men squads by himself.
#3 Posted by PirateKing69 (4290 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1.

#4 Posted by brharri (838 posts) - - Show Bio
@charlieboy:  Storm has and can take out Hulk then they double team Magneto
#5 Posted by goldenshot80 (7349 posts) - - Show Bio

you cant be serious

#6 Posted by charlieboy (7171 posts) - - Show Bio
@brharri:
magneto has defeated jean and storm at the same time. along with cyclops, colossus, wolverine, banshee, and nightcrawler. also storm has never taken out the hulk. she has knocked him off balance before. or blew him with wind. that does not make a defeat.
#7 Posted by brharri (838 posts) - - Show Bio
@charlieboy: Interesting
#8 Posted by goldenshot80 (7349 posts) - - Show Bio

#9 Posted by charlieboy (7171 posts) - - Show Bio
@brharri:
i am sorry but magneto could solo.
#10 Posted by brharri (838 posts) - - Show Bio
@charlieboy: do u have any scans
#11 Edited by ScipioAfricanus (263 posts) - - Show Bio
#12 Posted by charlieboy (7171 posts) - - Show Bio

no but i will get you some issue numbers.
#13 Posted by brharri (838 posts) - - Show Bio
@charlieboy: Thank-you
#14 Posted by charlieboy (7171 posts) - - Show Bio
@brharri:
the instance i am talking about is x-men 112. original series.
#15 Posted by Asok (336 posts) - - Show Bio

If it is Phoenix, she solos.  If not, Magneto solos.

#16 Posted by bag_o_x_men (682 posts) - - Show Bio

Magneto solos.  This is an easy win for Mags.  Hulk is irrelevant.

#17 Posted by goldenshot80 (7349 posts) - - Show Bio
@Asok said:
" If it is Phoenix, she solos.  If not, Magneto solos. "
#18 Posted by THUNDERBOLT30 (10790 posts) - - Show Bio
@charlieboy said:
"@brharri: magneto has defeated jean and storm at the same time. along with cyclops, colossus, wolverine, banshee, and nightcrawler. also storm has never taken out the hulk. she has knocked him off balance before. or blew him with wind. that does not make a defeat. "

I agree with this. Hulk could be BFR'd by either Jean or Storm but at the end of the day, I think Magneto could handle this on his own. I don't know if he can attack from a range as Storm has been shown to but he has countered her attacks , should be protected from Jean's TP.  
#19 Posted by Nefarious (21964 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1 slaughterhouse.

#20 Edited by Storm Calling (3659 posts) - - Show Bio
@charlieboy said:

" @brharri: magneto has defeated jean and storm at the same time. along with cyclops, colossus, wolverine, banshee, and nightcrawler. also storm has never taken out the hulk. she has knocked him off balance before. or blew him with wind. that does not make a defeat. "

He fought them one on one, when they fought again as a team in the next issue Magneto was bested by the X-men. I have already broken this down and provided proof that Cyclops even stated that the team wasn't fighting him as a team. 
 
Storm and Cable have defeated the hulk twice by reverting him back to banner with a psybolt and an emp to his brain. The same should happen here after Jean and Storm gank mags.
#21 Posted by charlieboy (7171 posts) - - Show Bio
@Storm Calling:
when has either storm or jean ever defeated magneto without a whole team?
#22 Posted by Storm Calling (3659 posts) - - Show Bio
@charlieboy said:
" @Storm Calling: when has either storm or jean ever defeated magneto without a whole team? "
I never said they did but they both came really close to beating him when they faced him one on one in the issue you provided. So I'm pretty sure they're combined power would be too much for him. The following issue had the team best him when they decided to work together.
 
Hulk is a non factor here considering both Jean or Storm can bfr him at will.
#23 Posted by JediXMan (31251 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1 wins.

Moderator
#24 Posted by charlieboy (7171 posts) - - Show Bio
@Storm Calling:
jean was the phoenix in that fight and mags still defeated her. and this is normal jean we are talking about. magneto has defeated the x-men several times. i really think the girls are going to need some more x-men to take mags down. i don't think one or two x-men have ever defeated magneto. it is always a team effort.
#25 Posted by Storm Calling (3659 posts) - - Show Bio
@charlieboy said:
" @Storm Calling: jean was the phoenix in that fight and mags still defeated her. and this is normal jean we are talking about. magneto has defeated the x-men several times. i really think the girls are going to need some more x-men to take mags down. i don't think one or two x-men have ever defeated magneto. it is always a team effort. "
That was a low powered phoenix jean, she hadn't even consumed any stars and her powers only rivaled Xavier in that issue. She was barely coming into her powers and hadn't shown any grand feats before she fought Mags. Plus this was also a clone, current jean without phoenix would probably be just as powerful as that clone. The jean before that clone Jean was a lot weaker than a current omega level powered jean. Both Storm and Jean nearly defeated Magneto one on one in that issue. If he barely had enough to take down one of them then two should be far too much for him. We're talking about two of the most powerful X-men going off against mags. X-men that have nearly defeated him single handed in battle.
#26 Posted by charlieboy (7171 posts) - - Show Bio
@Storm Calling:
i am well aware that was phoenix posing as jean. she had already saved the universe from the m'krann crystal at that point and displayed molecular telekinesis. both feats are beyond normal jean. also they both have "almost" beat him but never have. and he has beat them both before. the evidence clearly suggests magneto solos.
#27 Edited by Storm Calling (3659 posts) - - Show Bio

 @charlieboy said: 
That phoenix didn't even have enough power for that feat and required the energy of Storm and Corsair to repair the crystal. She was no where near as powerful as a dark phoenix, and when she attacked magneto he even stated that her powers only Rivaled Xavier's(Someone he has already beaten before in combat anyway). She also reached some sort of limit in her power, which you would never see in a fully powered Phoenix so early on in a battle with Magneto. That's not to mention the fact that Storm amplified his magnetic powers when she tried to use a blizzard to disarm him. Also Jean Grey has molecular telekinesis without the phoenix force and I'm pretty sure a current jean would be just as powerful as that clone in that issue without Phoenix Force.
 
And when you say never beaten him before, I'm assuming you mean one on one a piece. Because he has never beaten the two utilizing their skills together.Never. If both Storm and Jean taxed him to his limit one on one then he is standing no chance against both of them at the same time.

#28 Posted by charlieboy (7171 posts) - - Show Bio
@Storm Calling:
that version of jean/phoenix rearranged her sisters molecules and turned her back to normal after attuma had them changed into water breathers. normal jean has never displayed anything like that without being phoenix enhanced. and i don't remember jean ever doing molecular telekinesis without being phoenix enhanced. so some examples if you have them? 
magneto is a team buster. and has defeated both characters.  i will have to dig in my comics and see if he has ever defeated them both at the same time. but the x-men have never ever defeated him with just two members. i still think evidence is on my side.
#29 Posted by Storm Calling (3659 posts) - - Show Bio
@charlieboy: Quick question, what is your definition of "Without being Phoenix enhanced"? Where the phoenix resides within her and is therefore automatically enhancing her power or only when she does the bird effect?
 
And evidence is not on your side in terms of Magneto defeating Jean and Ororo because you have provided no instances where he beat them when they were both utilizing their skills together. He beat them each in a one on one battle, and Magneto got a powerup after facing Storm. Storm and both Jean have shown that they can tax Magneto to his limit on their own. Together they should be more then a match for his formidable powers.
#30 Posted by charlieboy (7171 posts) - - Show Bio

@Storm Calling:
she also had powered up a stargate. i have never seen normal jean do that.

#31 Posted by charlieboy (7171 posts) - - Show Bio
@Storm Calling:
whenever she posesses the phoenix her powers are stronger. that is what i mean. magneto has beat both of them and multiple other characters in the same fight. he has also taken on the avengers and the fantastic four. and i will look for instances where he fought both at the same time. but so far neither one of them has ever managed to defeat him without the help of a team full of people. so odds are mags wins.
#32 Posted by Storm Calling (3659 posts) - - Show Bio
@charlieboy said:
"

@Storm Calling:
she also had powered up a stargate. i have never seen normal jean do that.

"
Again her powers only rivaled Xavier's in the issue he beat her. A current omega level Jean without PF rivals Xavier's powers.
#33 Edited by Storm Calling (3659 posts) - - Show Bio
@charlieboy said:

" @Storm Calling: whenever she posesses the phoenix her powers are stronger. that is what i mean. magneto has beat both of them and multiple other characters in the same fight. he has also taken on the avengers and the fantastic four. and i will look for instances where he fought both at the same time. but so far neither one of them has ever managed to defeat him without the help of a team full of people. so odds are mags wins. "

Ok then I don't think I'd be able to provide much evidence against that . But I will say though that her powers only rivaled that of Xavier's in that battle, so whatever she did before that must be within the powers levels of Xavier or she was either written down for Magneto. Either case an omega level jean grey without PF rivals Xavier in power, so that clone's power showcased in that battle could easily be used as evidence that this Jean could do just as much damage against Magneto. And with that sort of power facing off against Mags, with Storm backing her up, I don't see the girls going down. 

Also, Magneto has never taken on a team that composed of the X-men in that issue and won. He beat them due to inexperience and was bested the following issue when they worked together. I'd also like to point out that in the battle in the following issue, that Storm was severely weakened after several attempts to pick the locks of the X-men and free them. So who knows if Storm and Phoenix could have taken him down by themselves. I just wanted to make it clear that while Mags did beat the team the first time, they were not operating as a team. Both Jean Clone and Storm came close to beating him alone tho.
#34 Posted by charlieboy (7171 posts) - - Show Bio
@Storm Calling:
in magneto's opinion she only rivaled xavier. i have already named several feats that jean without the phoenix could not do.
#35 Edited by Storm Calling (3659 posts) - - Show Bio
@charlieboy said:

" @Storm Calling: in magneto's opinion she only rivaled xavier. i have already named several feats that jean without the phoenix could not do. "

Mag's opinion>Yours
 
He knows what he is facing and he believed he was being attacked with powers that were only rivaling Xaviers. If she were displaying powers even greater then Xavier's he would have stated as much. So either Jean clone was written down or Xavier has the same level of raw power as the Phoenix.
#36 Posted by charlieboy (7171 posts) - - Show Bio
@Storm Calling:
actually i am a real person and magneto is fictional. so i like to think my opinion counts for more.  
anyway green phoenix has shown several feats that normal jean cannot. she defeated firelord on her own. has a non phoenix powered jean ever defeated a herald of galactus?
#37 Posted by Storm Calling (3659 posts) - - Show Bio
@charlieboy said:
" @Storm Calling: actually i am a real person and magneto is fictional. so i like to think my opinion counts for more.  anyway green phoenix has shown several feats that normal jean cannot. she defeated firelord on her own. has a non phoenix powered jean ever defeated a herald of galactus? "
I understand what you mean but her powers were measured in that issue. Not everyone is written the same way in every issue. Characters get written down all the time, so comparing them overall and then trying to match that power to a single issue is not accurate. And according to Magneto, she was displaying powers that were only rivaling Xavier's in that issue, and he was being taxed to his limit. So if a current non PF powered Jean is rivaling Xavier in power then she too should be able to tax Magneto the way the clone did.
#38 Posted by charlieboy (7171 posts) - - Show Bio
@Storm Calling:
uncanny x-men 304. he uses his powers on the iron in the blood of everyone at illyanna's funeral. they cannot move or use their powers. this crowd includes storm and jean.
#39 Posted by charlieboy (7171 posts) - - Show Bio
@Storm Calling:
magneto had no clue what phoenix was really capable of. i admit that a full powered phoenix would tear up mags.
#40 Posted by Storm Calling (3659 posts) - - Show Bio
@charlieboy said:
" @Storm Calling: uncanny x-men 304. he uses his powers on the iron in the blood of everyone at illyanna's funeral. they cannot move or use their powers. this crowd includes storm and jean. "
Sneak attacks don't count. They weren't prepared. They didn't even get a chance to attack him before he reversed their blood.  In either case Storm was written down and didn't sense the approach of that massive ship...
#41 Posted by charlieboy (7171 posts) - - Show Bio
@Storm Calling:
he still has shown the capability of shutting them both down very easily.
#42 Posted by Storm Calling (3659 posts) - - Show Bio
@charlieboy said:
" @Storm Calling: magneto had no clue what phoenix was really capable of. i admit that a full powered phoenix would tear up mags. "
I'm pretty sure he could measure the strength of the attacks being administered against his shields. And apparently it was only forces that rivaled Xavier's power.
#43 Posted by Storm Calling (3659 posts) - - Show Bio
@charlieboy said:
" @Storm Calling: he still has shown the capability of shutting them both down very easily. "
I agree he has, but they are human and have no durability against his power. So that's not really saying much if they get ambushed.
#44 Posted by charlieboy (7171 posts) - - Show Bio
@Storm Calling:
well you asked for evidence of where he defeated them both at the same time. and as for the whole green phoenix vs normal jean thing her feats clearly show that green phoenix was more powerful.  
 
now it's your turn. do you have any evidence of a jean/storm combo ever actually defeating magneto?
#45 Posted by Storm Calling (3659 posts) - - Show Bio
@charlieboy said:
" @Storm Calling: well you asked for evidence of where he defeated them both at the same time. and as for the whole green phoenix vs normal jean thing her feats clearly show that green phoenix was more powerful.   now it's your turn. do you have any evidence of a jean/storm combo ever actually defeating magneto? "
That is not good enough evidence considering Storm was written down and it was a surprize attack. The characters never had a chance to defend or attack against him. So really that example does not really hold much ground if both Storm and Jean can attack him as fast as he attacks them.
 
My evidence is that the Clone's power levels were rivaling Xavier's power and nothing more in that issue. So it could be used as evidence that a current non PF powered Jean could tax him, considering her powers now rivals Xavier's. I also pointed out that both Jean and Storm came close to beating him one on one and that their combined efforts would surely be too much for him. So if both can tax him to the limit single handed then there is simply no way in this world he'd be able to tank both of these girl's full powered attacked, even with morals on.
#46 Posted by charlieboy (7171 posts) - - Show Bio
@Storm Calling:
dude you can keep saying magneto said... but the feats say otherwise.  
 
and you have no evidence of the combo of storm and jean beating magneto by themselves. because it has never happened. your comments are pure speculation on your part. whether it was a surprise attack or not  magneto shut them down. he has shown himself capable of blocking both of their attack. and has defeated both characters before. we keep going round and round. i have countered your arguments with actual evidence. now please come up with actual evidence.
#47 Edited by bag_o_x_men (682 posts) - - Show Bio
@Storm Calling: 
Her power rivaling Xavier, was just the writer's acknowledging that Mags believes Charles to be the most powerful mutant on the planet, and vice versa.  But as it read, Magneto's "opinion" was crap writing that never made sense even in the issue it was written in. How is a high level telekinetic, so high level in fact, that she can reconstruct at the molecular level (this was before Mags was doing subatomic manipulation so she should have been crazy impressive), and she was matching Xavier with tp.  How can it be remotely feasible that anyone buys that she was less powerful than Xavier. You're grasping at straws.  The fact remains that Mags has beaten both of them, along with entire teams time, after time, after time.  The only times he has been trapped/imprisoned were the the Beyonder, the Stranger, cosmic entity's  no shame there, and once when the entire assembled rosters of the Avengers, Fantastic Four, and X-men banded together, and even then it took Namor turning on him before they could finish it.  And in all of these situations, he got himself out of them.  It was Mags who was the turning point for the hero's winning the Secret Wars, Mags reverse engineered the Stranger's tech to escape, then used a beam of pure electromagnetic energy to transport himself and Toad back from where the Stranger stranded them a second time, then when Professor X, Tony, and Reed developed the prison at the center of the Earth to negate his abilities, he waited until the first em shift and poof! he's back.  
So to recap,  Storm and Jean...both part of teams that Mags has defeated many times.
Magneto...uber teambuster  who they have never defeated even together, much less individually.
@charlieboy:
You'll begin to notice a pattern of how, Storm is always written down, while Mags is always overpowered, in spite of fifty years of consistent writing that puts him at a higher level than them.
#48 Posted by charlieboy (7171 posts) - - Show Bio
@bag_o_x_men:
hey we agree on something. lol.
#49 Posted by Storm Calling (3659 posts) - - Show Bio
@charlieboy said:
" @Storm Calling: dude you can keep saying magneto said... but the feats say otherwise.   and you have no evidence of the combo of storm and jean beating magneto by themselves. because it has never happened. your comments are pure speculation on your part. whether it was a surprise attack or not  magneto shut them down. he has shown himself capable of blocking both of their attack. and has defeated both characters before. we keep going round and round. i have countered your arguments with actual evidence. now please come up with actual evidence. "
Magneto stating that her power levels were rivaling Xavier's is evidence. It can be disputed that her power levels are usually higher then that by providing evidence from other issues and story-arcs but it cannot be used as evidence to describe her power levels in that issue. Fact!
 
There is no speculation on my part beside the fact that I have put two and two together. It is fact that both Storm and Jean taxed Magneto in a one on one battle against him. It is fact that her power levels were only rivaling Xavier's in the issue he battled the Phoenix. And it is fact that current non PF powered Jean has power levels that rival Xavier's. So it is fact that anyone with power levels rivaling Xavier can tax Magneto. Period.  That is evidence enough that a Jean/Storm combo can win.
 
Your other points about him beating them with a surprise attack is inaccurate. This battle is not a surprise attack, and both are aware of each other's presence.
#50 Posted by Storm Calling (3659 posts) - - Show Bio
@bag_o_x_men said:
" @Storm Calling: 
Her power rivaling Xavier, was just the writer's acknowledging that Mags believes Charles to be the most powerful mutant on the planet, and vice versa. . "
A fact is a fact, and even if rivaling Xavier in terms of being the most powerful mutant is what he meant, it all still points to current non PF powered Jean being able to tax him.