HT Tourney: Thetrubarryallen vs shadowchaos

@thetruebarryallen: okay interesting but lets say Amazo copies Encounter it would make no difference due to the fact that Medaka has beaten the user of encounter before and she has a counter for it( It was not shown but there had to be one for her to beat him) Now all that is going to do nothing to Medaka who can't be hurt and neither can Albedo. What is more likely is likely is that that Etrigan will try to use the hellfire on them and end up hurting his teammates via Albedo warping it away and Medaka pushing the damage onto somebody else. As for Medaka still fighting like that after the blood lust wearing off well she did use every skill possible on Ilihiko in a attempt to beat him which didn't work due to the fact he is immune to skills. It took a style just to be able to have a attack of hers be registered as a attack of hers and to kill him. Which in a few months later she beat him again in a few minutes as part of the hundred flower run. That run was also a showing of her seriousness as she used about a hundred trample skills on one dude where all that was really needed was a few punches. Granted he was a character that her and Ajimu always go overboard with even when they weren't needing to fight him. Now as for Peter well he would probably not have strong tp as he has shown at the most controlling one person and reading the mind of one person at a time. Everybody on my team but Albedo and Medaka would die but its a question about Setsuna losing the use of his gundam since 00 Qan (t) also can absorbs things but not only mechanical things but also biological things as it was shown absorbing flowers at the end of the movie. Setsuna would also quantisize when cs tried to take over and since he can't do that then he would be left behind. So when everybody but Albedo and Medaka are dead Medaka would go to where to corpses or where ever there is a blood stain or something like that and use All Fiction to revive them making their deaths nothing. Then she would use weighted words to cause your entire team to prostrate before her by manipulating the electrical signals sent to their muscles and for the machines on the team she would control them more by actually affecting the circuits. The Kumagawa video is to show a low end feat of All Fiction which is making colors into nothing and it shows him reviving and healing himself I just felt that was easier then a few scans on All Fiction to try to explain it.

Scans and Videos

Gallery

Okay there we go but note for the xenosaga vid disregard the Albedo part since Albedo was ampt up there. He rivaled a omnipotent god there since he absorbed one. That was before he became a Testament but that video showed the power of a Testament and since all Testaments are equal in power they can be transferred in feat wise so Albedo can do what Voyager and Virgil did in that video.

@shadowchaos: Alright; I'm going to be honest here. I can't understand 99% of what you're saying so you might need to work on your formatting to make it easier to read.

I'll counter your post anyway; but I haven't seen anything added here that would make a difference in the outcome of this battle & I'll be ready to open it up to voting whenever you are.

TTBA Counters

okay interesting but lets say Amazo copies Encounter it would make no difference due to the fact that Medaka has beaten the user of encounter before and she has a counter for it( It was not shown but there had to be one for her to beat him) Now all that is going to do nothing to Medaka who can't be hurt and neither can Albedo.

You're claiming that your team cannot be hurt; yet I've seen nothing to suggest this. I honestly don't think Medaka is even going to get the chance to use Encounter, as Professor Zoom & Amazo are much too fast for her.

If what you're saying is true; however, and it is impossible to hurt Medaka & Albedo then they shouldn't have made it past the power limits as they are above Thanos level.

What is more likely is likely is that that Etrigan will try to use the hellfire on them and end up hurting his teammates via Albedo warping it away and Medaka pushing the damage onto somebody else. As for Medaka still fighting like that after the blood lust wearing off well she did use every skill possible on Ilihiko in a attempt to beat him which didn't work due to the fact he is immune to skills. It took a style just to be able to have a attack of hers be registered as a attack of hers and to kill him. Which in a few months later she beat him again in a few minutes as part of the hundred flower run. That run was also a showing of her seriousness as she used about a hundred trample skills on one dude where all that was really needed was a few punches. Granted he was a character that her and Ajimu always go overboard with even when they weren't needing to fight him.

Is Albedo even going to be able to react to Amazo or Professor Zoom? I'm pretty sure he'd get KO-ed after a few thousand punches directly to the face. Medaka doesn't know anyone on my team so I don't see any reason for her to immediately resort to her most powerful attacks, you even explained that the only reason she went so overboard was because she ALWAYS does against that foe. So in-character, I don't see her resorting to using Encounter and Scar Dead as a first resort, though I don't think she'll even have the chance to because she doesn't have the speed to counter Professor Zoom or Amazo.

I'm also wondering if she has the ability to resist Despero's TP. Can you show any scans/videos of her having that high of a TP resistance, if not then she's under my teams control right off the bat.

Now as for Peter well he would probably not have strong tp as he has shown at the most controlling one person and reading the mind of one person at a time. Everybody on my team but Albedo and Medaka would die but its a question about Setsuna losing the use of his gundam since 00 Qan (t) also can absorbs things but not only mechanical things but also biological things as it was shown absorbing flowers at the end of the movie.

So you're admitting that every member on your team would die besides Albedo & Medaka? Can you explain why Medaka and Albedo won't, because I don't see anything truly incredible about their durability. Without context a lot of the things you're posting don't look or seem impressive.

As far as 00 Qan (T) goes; Cyborg Superman has shown a much higher level of control than what you've shown Qan (T) can do. I don't really see him "absorbing flowers" as any sort of powerful or relevant feat. Considering Cyborg Superman is literally just an electronic conciousness that can move from machine to machine he could easily take control of 00 Qan (T), so Setsuna is losing the use of his Gundam.

Setsuna would also quantisize when cs tried to take over and since he can't do that then he would be left behind.

What does this even mean? Honestly, what does this do to CS?

So when everybody but Albedo and Medaka are dead Medaka would go to where to corpses or where ever there is a blood stain or something like that and use All Fiction to revive them making their deaths nothing.

You haven't given any reasons as to why Albedo & Medaka wouldn't be dead or under TP control from Despero at this point. Plus; if you do somehow manage to revive your entire team Prof Zoom & Amazo can just kill them again, and using All Fiction will allow Amazo to copy the ability, thus making it so my team can do the same.

Then she would use weighted words to cause your entire team to prostrate before her by manipulating the electrical signals sent to their muscles and for the machines on the team she would control them more by actually affecting the circuits. The Kumagawa video is to show a low end feat of All Fiction which is making colors into nothing and it shows him reviving and healing himself I just felt that was easier then a few scans on All Fiction to try to explain it.

Amazo can use the same spell to prevent her from talking that he used on Zatanna [ literally erased her mouth ] so unless weighted words is some sort of physical ability that doesn't require her to speak then it won't happen. In terms of control the machines I still believe that CS has a much better control; considering it was planetary so he'd still be able to fight back just fine, though I doubt it will even get to this point.

I still didn't really understand the "colors" video or how that works as healing but maybe the voters will.

I'm quite positive that Professor Zoom would be able to phase through Medaka and kill her instantly, same for Albeo. Just remove the vital organs and they're done.

@thetruebarryallen: sorry my computer is slow so I have trouble with formatting.

Okay I'm going to try to give a basic definition of All Fiction. Its the ability to make something as if it never happened or it never existed. So basically what it can be done is that Medaka can make it so she was never harmed to begin with making all the efforts your team to harm her nothing. It can also be activated after death to make it so she never died to begin with. That being said its not impossible for Medaka to make the time it takes for her to erase Amazo's copying ability and everything he has copied into nothing. As for why Medaka can't be hurt its because Encounter keeps Prof Zoom from hurting her as the damage would be put on another member of your team. Medaka has resisted mind control one by mind controlling her own mind so there is that.

Now onto Albedo. Albedo resides in another domain but is visible and perceivable in this one. So that means any attempts to harm him will be block with no effort needed on his part. The only times he needs to have effort is if he wants to warp it away. Otherwise anything that tries to hit him will be destroyed by a invisible wall so if if Zoom attacks him he will be destroyed just by trying to attack him. Albedo on the other hand is a evolved being and since birth been training his mind and body as a soldier and he has been diving into other peoples minds as part of his training and linking up with his brothers telepathically.

As for why these two were allowed I have no idea since Medaka is stronger then two characters who weren't allowed that I tried to use but she was approved.

Scans and videos

@highaccuser: Nothing I said was wrong during our debate. Different Amazos have different powers. Batman pretty much proves this during his fight with the Red Hood's Amazo.

@thetruebarryallen: Looks like you took some of my advice when building this team. You built a very synergistic team which covers all of the bases while retaining enough mystery to make it difficult to fight you. You have also done a much better job here with prep. I knew you could handle high tier characters you just needed some time to get your sea legs so to speak. Good luck in the tourney.

@shadowchaos: Alright then.

TTBA's Counters

Okay I'm going to try to give a basic definition of All Fiction. Its the ability to make something as if it never happened or it never existed. So basically what it can be done is that Medaka can make it so she was never harmed to begin with making all the efforts your team to harm her nothing. It can also be activated after death to make it so she never died to begin with. That being said its not impossible for Medaka to make the time it takes for her to erase Amazo's copying ability and everything he has copied into nothing. As for why Medaka can't be hurt its because Encounter keeps Prof Zoom from hurting her as the damage would be put on another member of your team. Medaka has resisted mind control one by mind controlling her own mind so there is that.

So we're dealing with turning back time here if I'm understanding this correctly? Medaka is able to turn back time and make something so it hasn't happened/never existed.

I don't exactly know if you want to open up that can of worms; because I've got Professor Zoom on my team, and the Professor is a huge fan of time travel. Considering that Professor Zoom runs off of negative speed force & can move through space/time with relative ease I'm fairly sure that he'd be much more skilled & would be able to turn back time FASTER than Medaka.

Gallery

While looking for the answer to the Omega Effect the Professor runs into Superman, Green Lantern, and Booster Gold. He toys with them & gives them some trouble, suffering no harm on him, and then easily jumps back into the time stream. He could simply do this during the fight once he realized that Medaka was turning back time or was unable to be harmed due to 'Encounter, granted I still don't even believe that Medaka would be able to initiate her 'Encounter' ability before getting KO-ed by the Professor or Amazo due to their vastly superior speed. You haven't shown that Medaka even has the reaction time to deal with my two speedsters.

I don't really see the point of responding to your argument against Amazo because Professor Zoom can counter that too, he's faster & his ability to mess with time is more fine-tuned that Medaka's. Heck, doesn't anyone remember the Road to Flashpoint & how he went back in time to mess with Barry Allen's life, realizing the only thing he couldn't do was kill Barry Allen?

Lastly, I need to see some sort of scan showing why Despero can't just TP her & make her shut down her 'Encounter' [ if she can even get it up in time ] allowing my team to beat the everliving snot out of her, because if that's her only TP resistance feat then it appears that she's going down, and fast.

Now onto Albedo. Albedo resides in another domain but is visible and perceivable in this one. So that means any attempts to harm him will be block with no effort needed on his part. The only times he needs to have effort is if he wants to warp it away. Otherwise anything that tries to hit him will be destroyed by a invisible wall so if if Zoom attacks him he will be destroyed just by trying to attack him. Albedo on the other hand is a evolved being and since birth been training his mind and body as a soldier and he has been diving into other peoples minds as part of his training and linking up with his brothers telepathically.

If he exists in "another domain" but is here in this fight then I'm fairly sure due to the rules he'd have to come to THIS domain. See, our entire team has to currently be EXISTING in Gotham City for this battle.

Imagine if during my Prep I had my team create 6 holo-gram projectors that made it so you perceived my team in Gotham City, but really they're just chilling in the 25th Century at Zoom's house? That would be against the rules, just because my team can be perceived doesn't mean they're actually there.

If Alebdo isn't in Gotham then he's essentially BFR'd himself from the fight & doesn't have to be fought against in the first place, you're already down a team mate from the beginning.

Lastly, how strong his is greatest TP feat? Despero was able to bring MMH to a drooling mess, then battle the combined might of MMH & Aquaman in a TP battle and actually take them over via MC. He then did the same to Batman, who didn't have any real resistance against the attack. Despero is also immune to Starro who can conquer entire galaxies via Telepathy & Mind Control.

From what I've gathered your team may be powerful, but you don't have any telepathic resistance nor do you have the reaction times to deal with Speedsters. I think it's quite clear that my team should be able to effortlessly sweep yours before your team realizes what's going on.

@diredrill: You didn't just say there were different ones, you said they all relied on the tanau totem even though he only used scans from one that didn't. Then you used a bunch of character based arguments that aren't intended for tourneys.

I don't overly dislike you though, and I do admire the creativity you had in your tourney, I just disliked your arguments in that tourney.

@highaccuser: I did say they were different

Character-based arguments? Do you mean attacks on his character because I did not do that. If you mean, using how the character would act then that is a completely valid form of argument. These characters aren't just ours to wield like blunt instruments. They have their own eccentricities that can be used to both benefit or harm a team.

@diredrill: I meant you said amazo would only attack his own team, and yet you had rachel grey working with 2 x-men villains. Not very consistent. You did say they were different, but he used the one from morrison's jla while you still referenced weakness' from the later one(a weakness he lost in his next appearence).

@thetruebarryallen:

Medaka

No All Fiction isn't something positive like going back in time cause that would make it a abnormal not a Minus. Its a skill that manipulates causality. Plus Medaka has these things called Trample Skills and well one of them allows her to always go first which means in the fight she will be able to attack first and with her that's all that's needed. She also has two other skills one is that she gets stronger when facing groups and the other is she can make all of creation sit. This means a amped up Medaka who can attack first and make your team sit down with no way to protect themselves. Which means Etrigan and Zoom get Bookmakered while the rest get erased from ever existing via All Fiction. All this being done at the speed of light with the Kurokami Phantom End Version.

Gallery

Albedo

Oh boy this is going to be hard to explain since the power of the Testament is the hardest thing to explain to people who haven't played Xenosaga. I guess the easiest thing to do is take some excerpts from the Perfect Guide.

<<Dual-Layer Structure>>

　The lower domain is organized according to the imaginary and real number domains. The imaginary number domain can be described as the domain of consciousness, or the domain of concepts, or perhaps even the domain of the soul. And the real number domain is considered to be the domain of substance. These two domains exist as two sides of the same coin, and all things that exist in the real domain, the material domain, also exist in the imaginary domain, the spiritual domain. This would have been considered similar to the world of the soul spoken about by religions that existed in many numbers in the era of Lost Jerusalem.

<<The Ability of Testament>>

　The ability of Testament is something that alters the imaginary domain, and as a result, it has influence in the real number domain. This is why they could perform numerous miracle-like deeds and cause phenomena that disregarded the physical laws of the real number domain. This is also proof that all existence exists in both the real and imaginary number domains. There is no exception to this, even for artificial structures and products.

<<The Factor of Testament>>

　Testament are those who were once humans who possessed the factor that could directly access the power of Anima, but after being freed from the flesh, they acted as imaginary domain type existences whose individualities had been preserved by Wilhelm.

　Once, in the era of extremely ancient Lost Jerusalem, the Apostles of the Messiah possessed the factor that could directly access the power of Anima. In other words, the Apostles of the Messiah were the ones who possessed the factor of Testament.

<<The Power of Testament>>

　The power of testament has no material limitation. Because they exert an effect on the real number domain from the imaginary domain, it is possible to produce an action that disregards physical laws. However, this miracle-like phenomenon is still just something that is performed only in the imaginary and real number domains within the lower domain, and is not something connected to the upper domain where U-Do exists.

@shadowchaos: wait medeka is more powerful than the universe and star-busters I banned? Then why the hell would you lead me to believe otherwise? And why would you use her knowing she broke the OP limits? Do you realize how much I have to trust about these characters power levels?

@shadowchaos: Seriously don't understand how some of your team got allowed, and I'm quite peeved by it. Granted you won't be beating my team, but considering you were AWARE that they were more powerful than characters that you tried and failed to get in the tournament you were knowingly breaching the power limits of the tournament; however, I'll still debate against it.

No All Fiction isn't something positive like going back in time cause that would make it a abnormal not a Minus. Its a skill that manipulates causality. Plus Medaka has these things called Trample Skills and well one of them allows her to always go first which means in the fight she will be able to attack first and with her that's all that's needed. She also has two other skills one is that she gets stronger when facing groups and the other is she can make all of creation sit. This means a amped up Medaka who can attack first and make your team sit down with no way to protect themselves. Which means Etrigan and Zoom get Bookmakered while the rest get erased from ever existing via All Fiction. All this being done at the speed of light with the Kurokami Phantom End Version.

I read up on All Fiction & it's not perfect and doesn't always work out as planned; also it can't erase things with strong emotional attachment, if you try & erase things then I'll just have Professor Zoom go back in time and prevent you from doing so, he's faster than Medaka.

I also read up about the 'Trample Skills' and they're hilariously ridiculous. I looked at all the ones listed for Medaka and I saw nothing that allowed her to always go first, I saw on that allowed her to CONCEDE the first move but not one that granted her the first move. While I'm at it I feel like it's important to list some of these so voters realize how incredibly ridiculous it is that Medaka got allowed in this tournament when the power limit was beating Thanos in a 1v1.

• From Earth to Cosmos - Rule the Universe Skill
• Pioneer Flag - Create a New Universe Skill
• Many Hole Basket - Protect From Evil Skill
• More Than Group - The more targets, the more your power increases Skill
• Clean Bench Press - Overpower surroundings Skill

Anyways, I saw nothing on there about her being able to attack first, and your scans don't either. Medaka has no counter for the speed of Professor Zoom or Amazo [ since he's copied Zoom's speed ] or the TP abilities of Despero. If she doesn't get dominated by the thousands of punches from Prof Zoom then she'll fall due to mind rape.

Medaka is incredibly powerful, but you're facing one of the teams that can devastate her.

Also; I don't think your 'EVERYTHING INTO NOTHING' power is within the rules. If Professor Zoom isn't allowed to go back in time & kill your team as small children & we're not allowed to BFR then you can't just erase my team from existence, not like you'd be able to anyway considering how quickly Medaka is getting brought down.

If you really want to do this and somehow people don't think that my team can bring Medaka down in time [ which I don't see happening, but just in case ] then Amazo can literally copy all of her powers & bring her down. It's that simple.

As far as Albedo goes, you didn't really explain what it means or where HE is. Maybe your videos do but I'm not going to watch all of them without knowing what I'm supposed to be paying attention to. You've been posting tons of videos without telling me what parts [ minutes/seconds ] to watch so I end up watching it all and end up with nothing gained from it.

My point is that Albedo has to be PHYSICALLY in the realm of this battlefield. It's like if I was using Mirror Master & then said that he was in the Mirror World the entire fight even though BFR isn't allowed [ self or opponent ] and claiming that your character is unable to be hurt because his physical form isn't in the same universe/dimension but he can be perceived in & the current dimension isn't grounds for him being allowed or actually THERE.

Also; Zoom can move through Space & Time so if for some reason Albedo is allowed to stay in his other dimension Zoom should be able to find him, eventually, especially with the help of Amazo & Despero due to TP length. Cyborg Superman could also be of assistance to build some sort of teleporter/tech to bring my team onto the same plane as Albedo; thus allowing him to be physically hurt.

Once again, you've got a good team; however, I think my team does have what it takes to beat them & that my strategy is more logical/doesn't rely on just one person.

@thetruebarryallen: @shadowchaos: Ok looking over things now medeka seems way too powerful. I'm quite peeved shadowchaos, you know this site is mostly for western comics and that I have to take your word for it when you think these people are not OP. Don't act like I knew how powerful medeka was when all I did was some brief reserch that didn't show me what I'm seeing now.

You're not going to win anyway, you gave no effective counter speedblitz/TP argument and the voters would know that. You characters powers can only activate at the speed of thought.

I really see no reason to let you continue this tourney.

@highaccuser: Looking at Medaka's power-listing's was rather hilarious. She's got a counter for pretty much everything and some of the abilties are just so obscure.

Whatever happens happens, we can leave it to voters if you want or you can decide to stop the battle now; it's your tournament.

If we decide to continue just let me know so I don't forget to respond :)

@thetruebarryallen: The obscure ones threw me off. I thought they were just random and inapplicable against someone from another universe.

You win. I don't like being mislead.

@highaccuser: Cool. Cool cool cool. When do you think the next rounds will begin?

@thetruebarryallen: hard to say. Atomikill and new world order are the last match, but NWO hasn't had any activity for 12 days.

@highaccuser: actually Medaka isn't stronger then the two you didn't allowed technically but due to pis and cis she beats them. Like for Kumagawa he got rid of All Fiction before the battle and switched to BookMaker. But for Ajimu well its really PIS because she said it wasn't because Medaka was stronger then her it was because Medaka was a "Main Character" which is something unbeatable when Ajimu faced Medaka's Doppleganger she beat her instantly with no effort showing it wasn't strength but personality that was the problem. But I'm not really all that trying that hard anyway I was staying in because I made a commitment even if I'm busy so Oh well.

@thetruebarryallen: Just proving not a liar

Appointment Table: Go first skill.

Also what you are referencing is the degraded All Fiction from when Kumagawa lost Hundred Gauntlets and it was degraded. Medaka copied All Fiction when Kumagawa had it at full power so it can erase things with strong emotions and as for the lack of control well Medaka has it mastered to 120% effectiveness due to her skill The End. But as a goodbye.

@shadowchaos: don't worry about it , this is one of the reasons why I don't even enter tourney on here . But you should not have did what you did , if this was anime vice this wont be happening

@smxlr8: technically I'm not in the wrong cause highaccuser said the limit was in actual destructive power which Medaka doesn't have just hax because he said that during the time stop problem and so technically since Medaka doesn't violate the rules with that I'm not in the wrong since Medaka's greatest destructive feat was destroying the moon and everything else was just hax. so time for more Kumagawa!

@shadowchaos:

LOL

@smxlr8: come on with that logic I didn't violate the rules and technically it's his fault for not checking my team better especially he should have gotten a clue how little I know about comics due to the fact my team was void of them. I don't care about the tournament now just going to have fun.

@shadowchaos: so are you still busy or not?

@smxlr8: yep even more so now. Spring is always a busy time for me.

@shadowchaos: well maybe summer would be better for you

@smxlr8: nope just as bad I got training, state convention, and camp, and general club activities during the summer.

@shadowchaos: well I guess no more vine and vice for you then =/ well you had a good run

@smxlr8: I wouldn't say that I just have to lay off on the big stuff and just stick with small stuff so no more tournaments till next spring when my officer term ends but then I start preparing for my State officer interview so yeah my life is always busy but I find time.

@shadowchaos: Sorry it happened this way; yo. Considering that Medaka can literally create a universe & then command that universe it seems a bit OP. She's got the hax to beat Thanos and I'm quite positive that THAT was the limit.

Anywhoo. Fun debating against you, see you around the Vine maybe.