Saw this rant as chapter in a chapter of the Naruto/DBZ crossover "Naruto the Human Alienstory from FF.net
Long Rant below.
Because of one bitch, you know who you are, that keeps going to my other stories and calling me a Naruto Fanboy, I will be showing proof of my claims in terms of power. It isn't that I prefer Naruto, which I do since the plot of Naruto is MUCH better than the plot of DBZ, but because I looked at it from a neutral point of view and did actual research rather than going by hype.
Lets first clear up a common misunderstanding that everyone seems to have.
Goku had reached in base form limit long before the end of the series, and even he himself had stated that he couldn't grow any stronger in his base form. Goku had reached the limit of how far his physical strength could grow.
When Goku grows stronger, it is just his Chi (Ki) growing larger, but not his physical strength itself. Their speed, since they FLY, is actually just how fast they FLY. Not how fast they RUN, which isn't as fast as their flight speed.
Beerus (Bills) in the Canon Movie of DBZ stated that Goku, in his base form, does not have enough power to defeat Frieza. If you mention GT and that, then don't bother since that entire thing was stated to be NOT canon, so it doesn't count.
If you have watched Death Battle, and base your power ratings on that... don't. Most of them are actually surprisingly WRONG when it comes to physical strength. They based it on the laws of recoil, and withstanding one's own attack... BUT they didn't count in the fact that in DBZ their attacks nearly NEVER have recoil, so judging their physical strength based on the recoil of their attack is an overestimation of their abilities.
People are blinded by the energy attacks, and they automatically ASSUME that energy attacks rank the same as physical energy. It doesn't, while they can have planet buster energy attacks, that doesn't mean that their physical power is of the same quality.
They can blow up a planet, but they CAN'T destroy a planet with a punch.
Goku, after the Cell Saga, when training on Grand Kai's planet, was shown to be able to lift 2 tons (4,000 pounds) on each limb rather easily. In Super Saiyan form, that is increased to 10 tons (20,000 pounds) on each limb. Also very impressive, but not planet busting power in physical strength. Super Saiyan 2 isn't a physical power boost, but it gives you more control over the Super Saiyan form so no physical increase. It does give a speed increase when flying.
The strength of Super Saiyan 3 is unknown, but Goku has stated that he can't fully use it with a living body for very long. Going by before though, it can be estimated that his physical strength is boosted to around 100 tons (200,000 pounds) for each limb. All of this is impressive, but NOT planet busting physical power. In this form, Goku using a full powered punch blew out a hole in King Kai's super mini planet... which is about the size of a medium to large sized house.
The Speed of Light is 186,000 miles per SECOND, Goku has NOT surpassed the speed of light. If he had, he could fly around the planet Earth 7.5 times in ONE second. He can't do that even at top speed, so he can't go the speed of light. The Speed of Light is also 671 million miles per hour.
The Instant Transmission - A telepotation technique, sure it before using it he has to HOME onto an energy signature. Yes, teleportation is instant, but Goku's MIND is not instant. It will take him a moment to locate and home in on an energy source. Meaning that it isn't is good at the Hiraishin, which just needs a marker to teleport.
Ki - The energy of the DBZ universe, because of the fact that their physical bodies have LIMITS they train by increasing their Ki (power level). The more Ki you are using though, the more time it takes to draw it our by powering up yourself and attacks. Also, Ki can be lost by getting hurt, like when Gohan stated he lost over half his max energy supply when he was damaged by Cell. You hurt a Ki user, and they lose Ki.
The Dragon Ball Z, the anime is VASTLY different than the manga. There is quite a bit of filler in the Anime the blows power out of proportion. The entire GT is nothing BUT filler.
Before anyone uses Master Roshi as an example either, nobody knows what his power level is his 'Max Power' form is. It has been stated his power level is his 'Max Power' form is unknown, but he HAD to transform into this state to use the power to blow up the moon... the first time around. It takes him awhile to reach this form, and he can't defend himself while transforming. He also loses speed and stamina in this form.
So yes, while Ki has more destructive potential than Chakra, chakra users don't have the same weaknesses as a Ki user.
Now, lets compare Naruto's pure physical capabilities, and before you complain this entire thing is just me explaining the differences between physical power and their physical power boosts.
Naruto, in base form, when he was fighting against Sasuke was shown to have a Mach cone surrounding his body when he and Sasuke RAN at each other. Not fly like in DBZ, but ran using physical might. That means their MINIMUM is a speed 767 miles per hour, but taking in the shape of the mach cone you can see that his speed was over Mach 1. In physical running speed, Naruto is truly comparible to Goku through running speed alone. Running, not flying, there is a large difference between the two.
Naruto in base form, was also able to break through Senjutsu enhanced stone with brute strength. Now take in the fight that this was during the Pain arc, and by the time he was 17 and fought Sasuke he was many times stronger, able to use Sasuke's body to break stone from a distance away, even when physically weakened by extreme exhaustion. This is without ANy chakra enhancement, it was stated he was nearly out at that moment.
Naruto, in base form, has more raw stamina than Goku. After fighting a war against undying, immortal Zombies, making hundreds of clones, fighting the Jinchuriki and many different Kage, fighting Madara, fighting Obito, fighting the Ten Tails in multiple forms, GIVING his and Kurama's chakra to the army multiple times, fighting enhanced Obito, fighting Sage Obito, fighting living Madara, having Kurama ripped out of him, fighting Sage Madara, fighting Kaguya, and then fighting Sasuke for nearly a full day... and even after having his arm ripped off he remained awake for until the next day when Sasuke woke up. Naruto has more raw stamina than Goku.
Naruto, in his Base Form at the age of 17 is stronger than the Base Form of Goku when he reached the peak of his strength in his early 30s. Remember, these comparisons are based on physical strength ONLY without enhancements like Sage Mode and Super Saiyan.
Super Saiyan (and variants) increased both physical and energy capabilities, but that is all it does.
Naruto's own Sage Mode takes his already impressive strength and ups it to knew heights. A small toad like Fukasaku (Pa), about knee height on Naruto, was able to THROW a toad the size of Gamabunta with ease. Gamabunta is 1700 cm tall, 55.77 feet tall and even more wide. With his size and shape, his weight can be calculated to being around 70 and 110 tons or more in weight. The strength increase of Sage Mode far surpasses the strength increase of Super Saiyan, and could be stated to be around the strength increase of Super Saiyan 3. This is the strength increase given to a toad about as tall as Naruto's knee, so the strength increase given to Naruto would be similar or even more, given Naruto's already great strength.
Sage Mode increases speed as well, giving the user a MAJOR boost in speed. Considering that in Base form Naruto's speed has surpassed 767 miles per hour easily while exhausted, read the manga for proof you will see the Mach cone, it can be estimated that the speed increase is amazing as well.
Sage Mode increases Stamina as well, and take a stamina freak like Naruto and well.. you have somebody with God-like stamina.
Sage Mode increases durability, and Naruto is already one durable mother fucker, being able to take holes to the chest and get his body slammed through stone with ease before healing.
Sage Mode enhances reflexes and perception, in Sage Mode Naruto had been able to percieve and dodge the Third Raikage's strike. The Raikage that was able to kill off DOZENS of Ninja in an instant and had the ability to move at the suggested speed of lightning, proven when he arrived to the war with only a bolt of lightning flashing to show he arrived. Naruto had been able to predict, and then dodge and counter-attack the Third Raikage at the LAST possible second.
The typical lightning bolt moves at 224,000 mph, or about 3,700 miles per second and Naruto predicted, reacted to, and countered that in JUST Sage Mode.
Sage Mode users can sense energy around them, not only that, but using this ability combined with their perception skill and relfexes and they can sense attacks and opponents without needing to see them. In addition to this they can manipulate the natural energy around them, which only Senjutsu user's can truly sense, and use it as an INVISIBLE extension of their body to increase the reach of their attacks and hit opponents with invisible attacks that can't be senses by a non-Senjutsu user. Attacks that have crippling and instant killing force around equal to their physical strength.
Sage Mode also increases the power of Ninjutsu, Taijutsu, and Genjutsu... but right now lets focus on just the physical aspects.
Power up of Sage Mode, while at first it takes minutes to gather power, at the end of the war Naruto was shown gathering it in a second. By the time a DBZ fighter is powered up, Naruto is already in Sage Mode and ready for action.
Naruto in Sage Mode is Physically superior to Goku is Super Saiyan, and possibly Super Saiyan 3 based on PHYSICAL power alone. If you don't believe me, do the research if you want to.
Now, Naruto's second physical power up, the Nine Tailed Chakra Mode. The Nine-Tails Chakra Mode comes in 4 different forms, all of which increase the abilities more than the last version.
In the first form, physical strength is increase dramatically to the point that Naruto can kill even Zetsu clones despite their durability with a single kick, knock down the Demonic Statue of the Outer Path with an uppercut. The speed of this form can allow Naruto to surpass a FULLY charged Fourth Raikage, and BLITZ the Third Raikage before he could even react to the speed. The durability of this mode is higher than Sage Mode, allowing the user to also withstand extreme heat and extreme power with only minor wounds that heal extremely quickly. Chakra arms can be formed to extend the reach of attacks, and the ability to sense negative emotions is born in this form.
Tailed Beast mode, the Second stage.
In this form, his strength and speed are increase so much that he can deflect 5 Tailed Beast Bombs JUST by running passed them. In the blink of an eye he had been able to move across entire battlefields. In this form he can take on a massive cloak called 'Kurama Mode' which is comparible to size to the Great Ape Transformation, only no Full Moon needed. His strength is even further increases in Kurama Mode.
Tailed Beast Sage Mode, the Third Stage.
Combines all of the power increases of Sage Mode and the Tailed Beast Mode, dramatically increasing all of his powers.
Six Paths Sage Mode, the Fourth Stage.
Pushing Sage Mode further, Naruto can DRAMATICALLY increase his power from the Tailed Beast Sage Mode. Not only that but he is able to manafest Truth-Seeking Balls behind him, which can negate physical matter and energy that isn't Senjutsu related. In this mode his strength and speed are increase even more, and give him weapons to use in the fight that can't be blocked or destroyed by a non-Senjutsu user.
In this mode, Naruto can use an even Larger Kurama moce, and combine it with more with two more for an battle avatar with three heads, six arms, and nine tails. The size of this mode is even larger than normal, and the power is increases even further than before.
Note, that this was all BEFORE Kurama inside of Naruto was whole again, limiting the power of ALL of these modes. After the war, this is fact, Kurama was made whole again thus increasing the power of these forms even more than before.
Lets not forget the Boil Release: Unrivalled Strength that Naruto can use to even further increase his pure physical strength and speed. The more chakra, the higher the boost in speed and strength gained, though this doesn't increase durability like other power ups.
Naruto in his full transformations is MUCH physically stronger than Goku at his peak, using Super Saiyan 3. Remember, this is all using pure physical might, and you can research all of this on your own if you don't believe me.
Now remember, these comparisons were made when Naruto was 17 and not at the peak of his power physically, and Goku who have been at the peak of his physical power in his early to mid 30s or even possibly 40s. I get confused about Goku's age sometimes.
Both Naruto and Goku are complete idiots most of the time, but the difference is that while both are idiots, Naruto still has more intelligence than Goku. Neither of them are exactly book learners, but Naruto is smarter in a fight. Goku's solutions include using more power, leaving things to somebody else, and fusing, deny it if you want, it is true. Naruto on the other hand is much different in a fight than out of it.
Naruto is a tactile learner, learning through his body better. While normally an idiot, when people see him in action even geniuses like the Second Hokage rethink their thoughts of how his brain works. Naruto knows on an instintive level how his techniques work without being able to explain it. In a fight, Naruto can create multi-step plans and even backup plans in the middle of the heat of battle that can catch his opponents off guard nearly every time.
Naruto is also very observant, being able to notice things that others overlook and then take advantage of it. Even with new information, he can change his plans and act quickly with the new information. Naruto's also has Kurama's impressive intelligence in a fight to assist him, so not only is Naruto more physicall superior to Goku, but he is also smarter about how he fights and figuring out ways to defeat opponents stronger than him.
Canon Naruto vs Canon Goku, the winner is Naruto.
Sorry if you people don't like it, or if you believed what Death Battle said, but they were purely going off the ASSUMPTION that strength and recoil were one. Since their is no recoil to a DBZ energy attack, the Death Battle calcuations are wrong. If their was recoil they would be correct, but they severely oversaid Goku's strength.
I did my research using what canon has given me.
Even when comparing energy attacks, Naruto would win. Not because his attacks are purely stronger than Goku's ki attacks, but more the fact that the NATURE of his attacks are superior to the nature of Goku's attacks. Goku's attacks have a longer charge time, and by the time he is done charging Naruto is already in front of him with an Instant Kill attack that is charged up and ready to be uses to disintegrate, cut, burn, melt, seal away, control, poison, or turn Goku to dust.
Naruto can also do something that Goku can't... two things actually. The first is attack Goku's organs directly with his chakra, normal or in Sage Mode. The second... survive in the vacuum of space without assistance. Shown in the CANON movie when Naruto fought against Toneri on the MOON and with a simple punch put two new craters on the moon. The first without touching the ground, and the second using Toneri's body that he sent utterly flying.
Sorry to you DBZ fans out there, but Naruto is just better than Goku.
So can anyone of you debaters tells where and what he went wrong i would grateful to know and learn.
Log in to comment