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#1 Posted by karrob (4274 posts) - - Show Bio

Sorry if this is a repost. I searched but didn't see this battle.
 
Who wins no hold barred? Win via BFR, KO or death 
 
Hope are the end of  Second Coming arc vs. Legion during the Legion Quest arc. 
 
Both at full power.    

#2 Edited by Cosmic_Falcon (2039 posts) - - Show Bio

Hope barely has any feats. She can probably survive any telepathic assaults but Legion should be able to astral rape her. 

#3 Posted by goldenshot80 (7349 posts) - - Show Bio

Well its your lucky day. This has never been done until today

#4 Posted by karrob (4274 posts) - - Show Bio
@goldenshot80 said:
" Well its your lucky day. This has never been done until today "
Wow! Cool
#5 Posted by czarny_samael666 (16888 posts) - - Show Bio

In theory she should be able to copy any power and boost them but spend it fast. It is only a theory, but according to it she should be able to win it.

#6 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7257 posts) - - Show Bio

Legion, Hope has barely any experience what so ever, neither does Legion(not that much due to his multiple persona's) but he could still take her out

#7 Posted by JediXMan (29286 posts) - - Show Bio

Legion, easily. Hope lacks feats.

#8 Posted by bunnieswithtophats (173 posts) - - Show Bio

"lacks feats" lol

#9 Posted by chiq (1899 posts) - - Show Bio

legion..could change in a year or two. (she lacks feats) She's probably the black alice of marvel...

#10 Posted by PhoenixoftheTides (3443 posts) - - Show Bio

Legion turns her into a pumpkin pie and he eats her before she can do anything useful. Hope kind of sucks.

#11 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (3893 posts) - - Show Bio

All her "lacking feats" means is there are not a lot pictures of her (good thing these debates also rely on logic with scans and feats to back up a logical scenario, or nigh featless characters like Eternity should lose to feat giants like Batman), but we know for sure what her powers are and that is to mimic and optimize the powers of mutants, he is a mutant she will have his power, he has no great degree of skill or control to say which one of them will use said power better and she is actually battle trained while he spends most of his time locked up being nuts, she can definitely win.  If he was for instance Emma Frost and Hope mimicked her telepathy, chances are Emma could stand a chance because she actually knows how to use telepathy, this is not the case with Legion, he is not a master of his powers to garner any win based on who has more feats.

#12 Edited by JediXMan (29286 posts) - - Show Bio
@JediXMan said:

Legion, easily. Hope lacks feats.

Now now, younger me. Let's be logical about this.
 
Legion has warped reality, killed elder gods, and put the universe in a wooden box.
 
Hope hasn't done crap.
 
Gee, I wonder who the winner is. It baffles my curious mind.
#13 Posted by PhoenixoftheTides (3443 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans said:

All her "lacking feats" means is there are not a lot pictures of her (good thing these debates also rely on logic with scans and feats to back up a logical scenario, or nigh featless characters like Eternity should lose to feat giants like Batman), but we know for sure what her powers are and that is to mimic and optimize the powers of mutants, he is a mutant she will have his power, he has no great degree of skill or control to say which one of them will use said power better and she is actually battle trained while he spends most of his time locked up being nuts, she can definitely win. If he was for instance Emma Frost and Hope mimicked her telepathy, chances are Emma could stand a chance because she actually knows how to use telepathy, this is not the case with Legion, he is not a master of his powers to garner any win based on who has more feats.

But it is this volatility that makes Legion so dangerous. He's kept entire teams off balance because fighting him isn't like fighting a typical super villain. He's the type of enemy that I think an experienced team could take, but not someone like Hope. Then there is that added element that she would need to train in the use of a power like his (perhaps his works by just wishing something happens, in which case she'd need to keep errant thoughts from BFRing herself) and wouldn't have time in a random meeting.

#14 Posted by Erik (31439 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan said:

@JediXMan said:

Legion, easily. Hope lacks feats.

Now now, younger me. Let's be logical about this. Legion has warped reality, killed elder gods, and put the universe in a wooden box. Hope hasn't done crap. Gee, I wonder who the winner is. It baffles my curious mind.

Both younger you and old fart you need to chill out and respect the most powerful mutant evar! Or else.

#15 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (3893 posts) - - Show Bio
@PhoenixoftheTides said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

All her "lacking feats" means is there are not a lot pictures of her (good thing these debates also rely on logic with scans and feats to back up a logical scenario, or nigh featless characters like Eternity should lose to feat giants like Batman), but we know for sure what her powers are and that is to mimic and optimize the powers of mutants, he is a mutant she will have his power, he has no great degree of skill or control to say which one of them will use said power better and she is actually battle trained while he spends most of his time locked up being nuts, she can definitely win. If he was for instance Emma Frost and Hope mimicked her telepathy, chances are Emma could stand a chance because she actually knows how to use telepathy, this is not the case with Legion, he is not a master of his powers to garner any win based on who has more feats.

But it is this volatility that makes Legion so dangerous. He's kept entire teams off balance because fighting him isn't like fighting a typical super villain. He's the type of enemy that I think an experienced team could take, but not someone like Hope. Then there is that added element that she would need to train in the use of a power like his (perhaps his works by just wishing something happens, in which case she'd need to keep errant thoughts from BFRing herself) and wouldn't have time in a random meeting.

And she destroyed a foe he could not, even though he was able to properly access his powers, from what they have suggested she will not have any of the drawbacks of having his power that he experiences (sifting through personalities).  The element of not being trained properly with his powers, is also something he has to deal with, as I said he is no master of his power, and he has no credible battle training and she does.  She had no time in her seemingly random encounter with Bastion and she did what even Thor couldn't do.
#16 Posted by Saren (25227 posts) - - Show Bio

Legion, Hope has nothing to suggest she can't be mindraped.

Moderator
#17 Posted by lord_oraculous016 (9282 posts) - - Show Bio

feat-wise, Legion.. in theory, Hope wins..

#18 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (3893 posts) - - Show Bio
@CitizenBane said:

Legion, Hope has nothing to suggest she can't be mindraped.

and is he a mindraper?  I know telepaths that have engaged him have had troubles, but when did he become a skilled telepath?
#19 Posted by Saren (25227 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

Legion, Hope has nothing to suggest she can't be mindraped.

and is he a mindraper? I know telepaths that have engaged him have had troubles, but when did he become a skilled telepath?

He's mindraped Forge and Mystique, and he forced Magneto to relive his worst memories.

Moderator
#20 Posted by Erik (31439 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane:

I do not know anything about Forge's telepathic resistance but I do know that Mystique and Magneto are impressive feats.

#21 Posted by THUNDERBOLT30 (9877 posts) - - Show Bio

@lord_oraculous016 said:

feat-wise, Legion.. in theory, Hope wins..

Agreed.

#22 Posted by Saren (25227 posts) - - Show Bio

@Erik said:

@CitizenBane:

I do not know anything about Forge's telepathic resistance but I do know that Mystique and Magneto are impressive feats.

Mystique was cool, he pulled her into his own mind, spat her out unconscious, and then said "That's all.....".

Moderator
#23 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (3893 posts) - - Show Bio
@CitizenBane said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

Legion, Hope has nothing to suggest she can't be mindraped.

and is he a mindraper? I know telepaths that have engaged him have had troubles, but when did he become a skilled telepath?

He's mindraped Forge and Mystique, and he forced Magneto to relive his worst memories.

I see, well there are things to suggest that Hope can protect herself from mindrape, and that is her being raised by Cable, he was not only a telepath but an expert at Askani mental techniques which include mental protection, we can deduce he taught them to her as well because he in the past has used it to train other young mutants, X-force.  In this instance she will have telepathic power on par with or greater than his (due to the nature of her power)
#24 Posted by Saren (25227 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan said:

@JediXMan said:

Legion, easily. Hope lacks feats.

Now now, younger me. Let's be logical about this. Legion has warped reality, killed elder gods, and put the universe in a wooden box. Hope hasn't done crap. Gee, I wonder who the winner is. It baffles my curious mind.

But Hope set a hamburger on fire!

Respect her awesome power!
Moderator
#25 Posted by Saren (25227 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

Legion, Hope has nothing to suggest she can't be mindraped.

and is he a mindraper? I know telepaths that have engaged him have had troubles, but when did he become a skilled telepath?

He's mindraped Forge and Mystique, and he forced Magneto to relive his worst memories.

I see, well there are things to suggest that Hope can protect herself from mindrape, and that is her being raised by Cable, he was not only a telepath but an expert at Askani mental techniques which include mental protection, we can deduce he taught them to her as well because he in the past has used it to train other young mutants, X-force. In this instance she will have telepathic power on par with or greater than his (due to the nature of her power)

Mystique has telepathic blocks as well, didn't help her at all. Hope can come back when she has some concrete feats.

Moderator
#26 Posted by charlieboy (7150 posts) - - Show Bio

legion wins. hope is not there yet.

#27 Posted by emperorznb (1673 posts) - - Show Bio

But couldn't Hope mimic Legion's powers? or even Franklin Richard's? Just wanna ask a theory...

#28 Posted by Erik (31439 posts) - - Show Bio

Assuming she does not get killed or depowered, Hope will likely one day live up to the fact that she is the most powerful mutant. But as of right now, there is absolutely nothing concrete that will give her a win over any extremely powerful mutant.... Unfortunately.

#29 Edited by Saren (25227 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorznb said:

But couldn't Hope mimic Legion's powers? or even Franklin Richard's? Just wanna ask a theory...

The highest individual power she's mimicked so far was the telepathy of one of the Cuckoos in GenHope #13, anything more than that and she passes out. So if she tried mimicking Franklin or Legion my guess is she'd either pass out, die or go insane.

Moderator
#30 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (3893 posts) - - Show Bio

She doesn't need concrete feats ,in using his powers at least, she has concrete feats that show what her powers do which means she will have all of his powers to use just as he does, there is nothing about her character that suggests she can't use them the same way as both have little experience or skill in using them.  Read the rules, feats are not the end all be all in the forums they are used to support arguments and logic, logically they will be on equal ground, and her powers counter any negative side affect his powers have on him (being nuts) and apparently they also boost the power she is mimicking, meaning she should theoretically be able to tap more potential than Legion.  If he had the skill of his father or Emma then him using telepathy, that she will have too, would be a sure way to win, but she will have his telepathy (something Mystique did not have) backed by training from Cable.  The nature of Mystiques telepathic blocks do not protect her mind from a telepathic force that can just crash through the,, and once gone she has no way to engage the telepath, as mentioned this will not be the case with Hope.  Legion is a powerful telepath, not a skilled one.

#31 Posted by OmegaDynasty (9184 posts) - - Show Bio
@Erik said:

Assuming she does not get killed or depowered, Hope will likely one day live up to the fact that she is the most powerful mutant. But as of right now, there is absolutely nothing concrete that will give her a win over any extremely powerful mutant.... Unfortunately.

Question is if she copied Legion's powers. Would she be able to control all those personalities that manifest inside of her. It took Legion awhile with help of others to get them all sorted out. A.K.A. Why he was a nut job. lol
#32 Posted by Saren (25227 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans said:

She doesn't need concrete feats, she will have all of his powers to use just as he does, there is nothing about her character that suggests she can't use them the same way as both have little experience or skill in using them. Read the rules, feats are not the end all be all in the forums they are used to support arguments and logic, logically they will be on equal ground, and her powers counter any negative side affect his powers have on him (being nuts) and apparently they also boost the power she is mimicking, meaning she should theoretically be able to tap more potential than Legion. If he had the skill of his father or Emma then him using telepathy, that she will have too, would be a sure way to win, but she will have his telepathy (something Mystique did not have) backed by training from Cable. The nature of Mystiques telepathic blocks do not protect her mind from a telepathic force that can just crash through the,, and once gone she has no way to engage the telepath, as mentioned this will not be the case with Hope.

Uh, yeah she does. Legion was perfectly sane and in full control of his powers during Legion Quest, if Hope perfectly mimics a mutation right down to it's fundamental nature then she'd wind up with 3 personalities each jostling for control over her mind. She has no experience dealing with a situation like that. LQ Legion does, and he didn't have that problem at all since he'd unified his mind. Theoretically is all well and good, but practically she's not going to beat anyone at that level just yet. As for having the skill of his father, in Lost Legions Xavier stated that it was nearly impossible for him to read Chain's mind, but Legion was able to manipulate Chain and his copies with ease. Unless Cable trained her in the use of telepathy, which he didn't, it's a moot point.

Moderator
#33 Posted by Erik (31439 posts) - - Show Bio

@OmegaDynasty said:

@Erik said:

Assuming she does not get killed or depowered, Hope will likely one day live up to the fact that she is the most powerful mutant. But as of right now, there is absolutely nothing concrete that will give her a win over any extremely powerful mutant.... Unfortunately.

Question is if she copied Legion's powers. Would she be able to control all those personalities that manifest inside of her. It took Legion awhile with help of others to get them all sorted out. A.K.A. Why he was a nut job. lol

Legion's powers are not his personality disorder so Hope would not even need to worry about that assuming she could handle that level of power in the first place. Legion has incredible power that his fractured mind shapes in accordance to the personality.

#34 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (3893 posts) - - Show Bio
@OmegaDynasty said:
@Erik said:

Assuming she does not get killed or depowered, Hope will likely one day live up to the fact that she is the most powerful mutant. But as of right now, there is absolutely nothing concrete that will give her a win over any extremely powerful mutant.... Unfortunately.

Question is if she copied Legion's powers. Would she be able to control all those personalities that manifest inside of her. It took Legion awhile with help of others to get them all sorted out. A.K.A. Why he was a nut job. lol
the way they have showed her power in the past, she should not have any personalities to deal with, she stabilizes mutant powers, his personality issue is a direct result of his mutation.
#35 Posted by emperorznb (1673 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

@emperorznb said:

But couldn't Hope mimic Legion's powers? or even Franklin Richard's? Just wanna ask a theory...

The highest individual power she's mimicked so far was the telepathy of one of the Cuckoos in GenHope #13, anything more than that and she passes out. So if she tried mimicking Franklin or Legion my guess is she'd either pass out, die or go insane.

Ahhh... thanks for the info dude ^^

#36 Posted by Saren (25227 posts) - - Show Bio

@Erik said:

@OmegaDynasty said:

@Erik said:

Assuming she does not get killed or depowered, Hope will likely one day live up to the fact that she is the most powerful mutant. But as of right now, there is absolutely nothing concrete that will give her a win over any extremely powerful mutant.... Unfortunately.

Question is if she copied Legion's powers. Would she be able to control all those personalities that manifest inside of her. It took Legion awhile with help of others to get them all sorted out. A.K.A. Why he was a nut job. lol

Legion's powers are not his personality disorder so Hope would not even need to worry about that assuming she could handle that level of power in the first place. Legion has incredible power that his fractured mind shapes in accordance to the personality.

Legion's powers are the root of his disorder, when Rogue went into his mind and absorbed all his powers she stated that every minute his psyche was fracturing and forming new personalities and powers. So Hope would be flooded with thousands of personalities if she tried absorbing his powers.

Moderator
#37 Posted by Erik (31439 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

Legion's powers are the root of his disorder, when Rogue went into his mind and absorbed all his powers she stated that every minute his psyche was fracturing and forming new personalities and powers. So Hope would be flooded with thousands of personalities if she tried absorbing his powers.

Legion's power is to basically do whatever he wants. His individual personalities make their own powers because of it. But I have not seen anything to indicate that the powers are creating the personalities. Everything I have ever read in New Mutants had it the other way. He is an extremely powerful mutant that just so happens to be crazy.

#38 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (3893 posts) - - Show Bio
@CitizenBane said:

@Erik said:

@OmegaDynasty said:

@Erik said:

Assuming she does not get killed or depowered, Hope will likely one day live up to the fact that she is the most powerful mutant. But as of right now, there is absolutely nothing concrete that will give her a win over any extremely powerful mutant.... Unfortunately.

Question is if she copied Legion's powers. Would she be able to control all those personalities that manifest inside of her. It took Legion awhile with help of others to get them all sorted out. A.K.A. Why he was a nut job. lol

Legion's powers are not his personality disorder so Hope would not even need to worry about that assuming she could handle that level of power in the first place. Legion has incredible power that his fractured mind shapes in accordance to the personality.

Legion's powers are the root of his disorder, when Rogue went into his mind and absorbed all his powers she stated that every minute his psyche was fracturing and forming new personalities and powers. So Hope would be flooded with thousands of personalities if she tried absorbing his powers.

a root that her mutant power is made to stabilize, the same way the root of Rogues power was to have the same problems, and a touch from an infant Hope cured that instantly, and there were billions of them in her mind.  There is no reason in the world to assume that Hope would have any issue with personalities due to the nature of her power.
#39 Posted by Saren (25227 posts) - - Show Bio

@Erik said:

@CitizenBane said:

Legion's powers are the root of his disorder, when Rogue went into his mind and absorbed all his powers she stated that every minute his psyche was fracturing and forming new personalities and powers. So Hope would be flooded with thousands of personalities if she tried absorbing his powers.

Legion's power is to basically do whatever he wants. His individual personalities make their own powers because of it. But I have not seen anything to indicate that the powers are creating the personalities. Everything I have ever read in New Mutants had it the other way. He is an extremely powerful mutant that just so happens to be crazy.

This was in Legacy. Each power is a reflection on the personality, for example a demon named Styx had the power to kill people with a touch and absorb souls. His mind creates the personalities subconsciously, that's how Moira was born.

Moderator
#40 Posted by Saren (25227 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Erik said:

@OmegaDynasty said:

@Erik said:

Assuming she does not get killed or depowered, Hope will likely one day live up to the fact that she is the most powerful mutant. But as of right now, there is absolutely nothing concrete that will give her a win over any extremely powerful mutant.... Unfortunately.

Question is if she copied Legion's powers. Would she be able to control all those personalities that manifest inside of her. It took Legion awhile with help of others to get them all sorted out. A.K.A. Why he was a nut job. lol

Legion's powers are not his personality disorder so Hope would not even need to worry about that assuming she could handle that level of power in the first place. Legion has incredible power that his fractured mind shapes in accordance to the personality.

Legion's powers are the root of his disorder, when Rogue went into his mind and absorbed all his powers she stated that every minute his psyche was fracturing and forming new personalities and powers. So Hope would be flooded with thousands of personalities if she tried absorbing his powers.

a root that her mutant power is made to stabilize, the same way the root of Rogues power was to have the same problems, and a touch from an infant Hope cured that instantly, and there were billions of them in her mind. There is no reason in the world to assume that Hope would have any issue with personalities due to the nature of her power.

I'd contend that she's only stabilized low-level powers so far, but that's not the point. She mimicked about 20 powers during the Fear Itself tie-in, and shortly after that she passed out and spent the next two issues in the infirmary. If she can't handle 20 powers, how is she going to handle thousands?

Moderator
#41 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (3893 posts) - - Show Bio
@CitizenBane said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

She doesn't need concrete feats, she will have all of his powers to use just as he does, there is nothing about her character that suggests she can't use them the same way as both have little experience or skill in using them. Read the rules, feats are not the end all be all in the forums they are used to support arguments and logic, logically they will be on equal ground, and her powers counter any negative side affect his powers have on him (being nuts) and apparently they also boost the power she is mimicking, meaning she should theoretically be able to tap more potential than Legion. If he had the skill of his father or Emma then him using telepathy, that she will have too, would be a sure way to win, but she will have his telepathy (something Mystique did not have) backed by training from Cable. The nature of Mystiques telepathic blocks do not protect her mind from a telepathic force that can just crash through the,, and once gone she has no way to engage the telepath, as mentioned this will not be the case with Hope.

Uh, yeah she does. Legion was perfectly sane and in full control of his powers during Legion Quest, if Hope perfectly mimics a mutation right down to it's fundamental nature then she'd wind up with 3 personalities each jostling for control over her mind. She has no experience dealing with a situation like that. LQ Legion does, and he didn't have that problem at all since he'd unified his mind. Theoretically is all well and good, but practically she's not going to beat anyone at that level just yet. As for having the skill of his father, in Lost Legions Xavier stated that it was nearly impossible for him to read Chain's mind, but Legion was able to manipulate Chain and his copies with ease. Unless Cable trained her in the use of telepathy, which he didn't, it's a moot point.

he trained her period which includes Askani mental training, just like he did when he trained X-force.  Training or not, it's not a moot point because he doesn't have any telepathic training to suggest he can defeat a telepath with the same level of power.  I already addressed why him having multiple personalities should have no bearing on her copying his power.
#42 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (3893 posts) - - Show Bio
@CitizenBane said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Erik said:

@OmegaDynasty said:

@Erik said:

Assuming she does not get killed or depowered, Hope will likely one day live up to the fact that she is the most powerful mutant. But as of right now, there is absolutely nothing concrete that will give her a win over any extremely powerful mutant.... Unfortunately.

Question is if she copied Legion's powers. Would she be able to control all those personalities that manifest inside of her. It took Legion awhile with help of others to get them all sorted out. A.K.A. Why he was a nut job. lol

Legion's powers are not his personality disorder so Hope would not even need to worry about that assuming she could handle that level of power in the first place. Legion has incredible power that his fractured mind shapes in accordance to the personality.

Legion's powers are the root of his disorder, when Rogue went into his mind and absorbed all his powers she stated that every minute his psyche was fracturing and forming new personalities and powers. So Hope would be flooded with thousands of personalities if she tried absorbing his powers.

a root that her mutant power is made to stabilize, the same way the root of Rogues power was to have the same problems, and a touch from an infant Hope cured that instantly, and there were billions of them in her mind. There is no reason in the world to assume that Hope would have any issue with personalities due to the nature of her power.

I'd contend that she's only stabilized low-level powers so far, but that's not the point. She mimicked about 20 powers during the Fear Itself tie-in, and shortly after that she passed out and spent the next two issues in the infirmary. If she can't handle 20 powers, how is she going to handle thousands?

You could do that, and I could counter by saying she is an omega level mutant and there are no limits to her powers, so the nature or strength of the mutant she is using them on should be moot. 
because he doesn't have 20 powers, he has one power that allows him to have as many as he wants.
#43 Posted by Saren (25227 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Erik said:

@OmegaDynasty said:

@Erik said:

Assuming she does not get killed or depowered, Hope will likely one day live up to the fact that she is the most powerful mutant. But as of right now, there is absolutely nothing concrete that will give her a win over any extremely powerful mutant.... Unfortunately.

Question is if she copied Legion's powers. Would she be able to control all those personalities that manifest inside of her. It took Legion awhile with help of others to get them all sorted out. A.K.A. Why he was a nut job. lol

Legion's powers are not his personality disorder so Hope would not even need to worry about that assuming she could handle that level of power in the first place. Legion has incredible power that his fractured mind shapes in accordance to the personality.

Legion's powers are the root of his disorder, when Rogue went into his mind and absorbed all his powers she stated that every minute his psyche was fracturing and forming new personalities and powers. So Hope would be flooded with thousands of personalities if she tried absorbing his powers.

a root that her mutant power is made to stabilize, the same way the root of Rogues power was to have the same problems, and a touch from an infant Hope cured that instantly, and there were billions of them in her mind. There is no reason in the world to assume that Hope would have any issue with personalities due to the nature of her power.

I'd contend that she's only stabilized low-level powers so far, but that's not the point. She mimicked about 20 powers during the Fear Itself tie-in, and shortly after that she passed out and spent the next two issues in the infirmary. If she can't handle 20 powers, how is she going to handle thousands?

because he doesn't have 20 powers, he has one power that allows him to have as many as he wants.

Read New Mutants #5, Dr. Nemesis states that Legion's base power when he is whole is to manipulate time. Everything else is a secondary mutation, and Rogue stated that she had all, not one, of his powers when she absorbed them. She'd have thousands of powers, and that alone would KO her.

Moderator
#44 Posted by Erik (31439 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

This was in Legacy. Each power is a reflection on the personality, for example a demon named Styx had the power to kill people with a touch and absorb souls. His mind creates the personalities subconsciously, that's how Moira was born.

I read that issue as well. I know which scene you are talking about. What I am saying is that yes, his fractured mind creates individual powers to cater to that specific personality, but it does not say that the power is creating the personalities. Legion has multiple personality disorder on a massive scale and each one uses Legion's ability to do whatever he wants to focus that power specifically. That is why when he patched his mind up, he was able to do whatever he wanted and no one was able to do anything about it. He did not just have a short list of powers to choose from left over from his unified personalities. He had his actual power to do anything.

#45 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (3893 posts) - - Show Bio
@CitizenBane said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Erik said:

@OmegaDynasty said:

@Erik said:

Assuming she does not get killed or depowered, Hope will likely one day live up to the fact that she is the most powerful mutant. But as of right now, there is absolutely nothing concrete that will give her a win over any extremely powerful mutant.... Unfortunately.

Question is if she copied Legion's powers. Would she be able to control all those personalities that manifest inside of her. It took Legion awhile with help of others to get them all sorted out. A.K.A. Why he was a nut job. lol

Legion's powers are not his personality disorder so Hope would not even need to worry about that assuming she could handle that level of power in the first place. Legion has incredible power that his fractured mind shapes in accordance to the personality.

Legion's powers are the root of his disorder, when Rogue went into his mind and absorbed all his powers she stated that every minute his psyche was fracturing and forming new personalities and powers. So Hope would be flooded with thousands of personalities if she tried absorbing his powers.

a root that her mutant power is made to stabilize, the same way the root of Rogues power was to have the same problems, and a touch from an infant Hope cured that instantly, and there were billions of them in her mind. There is no reason in the world to assume that Hope would have any issue with personalities due to the nature of her power.

I'd contend that she's only stabilized low-level powers so far, but that's not the point. She mimicked about 20 powers during the Fear Itself tie-in, and shortly after that she passed out and spent the next two issues in the infirmary. If she can't handle 20 powers, how is she going to handle thousands?

because he doesn't have 20 powers, he has one power that allows him to have as many as he wants.

Read New Mutants #5, Dr. Nemesis states that Legion's base power when he is whole is to manipulate time. Everything else is a secondary mutation, and Rogue stated that she had all, not one, of his powers when she absorbed them. She'd have thousands of powers, and that alone would KO her.

then tell Dr. Nemesis (and the new writer) to read everything about Legion before New Mutants #5 where his base power is his psionic power and ability to absorb others psyches thus gaining a new power based on his unlimited psionic power, if his base power was simply time manipulation, he would have never gained any other power as time manipulation would not allow him to take in others psyches.  The first manifestation of his power was his telepathy and absorbing Jemail, so are we now suggesting that a secondary mutation will manifest before a primary?  How is that possible? if it manifested first, it cannot be a secondary mutation, his time manipulation powers didn't even surface until after he already had three psi powers, so again how could any of them be secondary to a supposed time manipulation base?
#46 Posted by Skaddix (3109 posts) - - Show Bio

I would say Hope She can copy all his abilities and add a PF Bonus on top. I mean really its not like Legion is comptent.

#47 Posted by JediXMan (29286 posts) - - Show Bio
@Skaddix said:

I would say Hope She can copy all his abilities and add a PF Bonus on top. I mean really its not like Legion is comptent.

Maybe it's because - I'm just taking a stab in the dark here - his powers are extremely difficult to control? How do you think Hope would cope with 1,000+ superpowered people in her head?

Also, I'd like proof of her copying the powers of another Omega.

#48 Posted by JediXMan (29286 posts) - - Show Bio
@Erik said:

@JediXMan said:

@JediXMan said:

Legion, easily. Hope lacks feats.

Now now, younger me. Let's be logical about this. Legion has warped reality, killed elder gods, and put the universe in a wooden box. Hope hasn't done crap. Gee, I wonder who the winner is. It baffles my curious mind.

Both younger you and old fart you need to chill out and respect the most powerful mutant evar! Or else.

Don't you speak like that to your elders, youngin! 
 
I'll teach you - soon as I find my cane there's going to be hell to pay!
#49 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (3893 posts) - - Show Bio
@JediXMan said:
@Skaddix said:

I would say Hope She can copy all his abilities and add a PF Bonus on top. I mean really its not like Legion is comptent.

Maybe it's because - I'm just taking a stab in the dark here - his powers are extremely difficult to control? How do you think Hope would cope with 1,000+ superpowered people in her head?

Also, I'd like proof of her copying the powers of another Omega.

Hope would not have 1000 people in her head, that is his problem.  If it is an aspect of his mind and would have been present regardless of him having power, she wouldn't copy it, and if it is an aspect of his powers then it is an example of his mutant power being unstable which means in her the power would be stable because that's part of what she does.   
 
Why does she need to be shown copying another omega?  She is an omega, and she copies powers.  Rogue did it with Legion, Jean, Rachel and Iceman, Mimic copied Iceman and Jean Grey, and they are not as powerful as Hope in the copying department.
#50 Posted by Saren (25227 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Erik said:

@OmegaDynasty said:

@Erik said:

Assuming she does not get killed or depowered, Hope will likely one day live up to the fact that she is the most powerful mutant. But as of right now, there is absolutely nothing concrete that will give her a win over any extremely powerful mutant.... Unfortunately.

Question is if she copied Legion's powers. Would she be able to control all those personalities that manifest inside of her. It took Legion awhile with help of others to get them all sorted out. A.K.A. Why he was a nut job. lol

Legion's powers are not his personality disorder so Hope would not even need to worry about that assuming she could handle that level of power in the first place. Legion has incredible power that his fractured mind shapes in accordance to the personality.

Legion's powers are the root of his disorder, when Rogue went into his mind and absorbed all his powers she stated that every minute his psyche was fracturing and forming new personalities and powers. So Hope would be flooded with thousands of personalities if she tried absorbing his powers.

a root that her mutant power is made to stabilize, the same way the root of Rogues power was to have the same problems, and a touch from an infant Hope cured that instantly, and there were billions of them in her mind. There is no reason in the world to assume that Hope would have any issue with personalities due to the nature of her power.

I'd contend that she's only stabilized low-level powers so far, but that's not the point. She mimicked about 20 powers during the Fear Itself tie-in, and shortly after that she passed out and spent the next two issues in the infirmary. If she can't handle 20 powers, how is she going to handle thousands?

because he doesn't have 20 powers, he has one power that allows him to have as many as he wants.

Read New Mutants #5, Dr. Nemesis states that Legion's base power when he is whole is to manipulate time. Everything else is a secondary mutation, and Rogue stated that she had all, not one, of his powers when she absorbed them. She'd have thousands of powers, and that alone would KO her.

then tell Dr. Nemesis (and the new writer) to read everything about Legion before New Mutants #5 where his base power is his psionic power and ability to absorb others psyches thus gaining a new power based on his unlimited psionic power, if his base power was simply time manipulation, he would have never gained any other power as time manipulation would not allow him to take in others psyches. The first manifestation of his power was his telepathy and absorbing Jemail, so are we now suggesting that a secondary mutation will manifest before a primary? How is that possible? if it manifested first, it cannot be a secondary mutation, his time manipulation powers didn't even surface until after he already had three psi powers, so again how could any of them be secondary to a supposed time manipulation base?

Even in Legion Quest Gabrielle Haller stated that David's coma had mostly healed his mind, and that was when he started manipulating chronal energies. But at that point he still had his other three abilities up until that point. He currently has thousands of abilities, and the fact that his personalities can act independently inside and outside of his mind would indicate that Hope would have to deal with all those powers. She's already shown that she can't handle too much power.

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