HOM Scarlet Witch vs Phoenix Emma Frost

 Scarlet Witch from house of M vs. Phoenix Force Emma Frost

NO PREP TIME.WIN BY DEATH.THEY ARE NOT BLOODLUSTED.FULL POWER FOR BOTH.

place:

HOM SCARLET WITCH

PHOENIX EMMA FROST - AvX 

There are threads where HOM Wanda has stalemated WPotC and Dark Phoenix! She takes this with near ease...

@Supermanwithatan01 said:

There are threads where HOM Wanda has stalemated WPotC and Dark Phoenix! She takes this with near ease...

AvX Phoenix Emma, or Phoenix Endsong Emma? They're different versions, one actually has some feats, the other none pretty much.

Still, Chaos Magic was the only thing that could actually damage the Phoenix Five when they had 1/5 of the power, after that it became difficult for her. With 1/2 or the full Phoenix Force under her control, I can see a really good fight. If it was current Wanda, I would probably favor Emma, but, in this case HoM Wanda takes it.

This is a mismatch.

HOM Scarlet Witch, has feats that put her beyond universal reality warper. What people often tend to see is her "no more mutant" as being her best feat, which isnt true. She actually remade entire 616 universe into an altogether different universe, House of M verse (Universe 58163). Her powers actually exceeded the 616 verse, which reached and cause havoc even in the Otherworlds. She , at the end of the series, also repaired this damage including the one cause by Chaos Wave and her powers were stated to have affected X-gene in future time line as well.

Then we have AvX which would stand to reason Chaos Magic is Phoenix's kyrptonite. Given her feat and power level at that instance, i do not see how one would argue for Emma Frost, specially given this version of Emma Frost (From Phoenix: Endsong) is pretty close to being absolutely featless.

HOM Wanda, nearly everytime.

@Roddy010 said:

@Supermanwithatan01 said:

There are threads where HOM Wanda has stalemated WPotC and Dark Phoenix! She takes this with near ease...

you must hate hate phoenix Emma Frost, Wanda erases her from existence

Scarlet Witch Ftw

@bansheesonicscream said:

@GonnaRain: Emma from AvX

this is terrible spite against emma, and a mismatch

I would give HOM Wanda much better odds against any Phoenix avatar, up to and including White Phoenix from Here Comes Tomorrow. Hyperboles aside, HOM Wanda just has better feats.

@Killemall said:

I would give HOM Wanda much better odds against any Phoenix avatar, up to and including White Phoenix from Here Comes Tomorrow. Hyperboles aside, HOM Wanda just has better feats.

I wouldn't give her good odds up to White Phoenix, her warp nor the Chaos wave were able to reach the White Hot Room, Rachel and Betsy were completely protected from what was going on in the "lower planes' from here. Evidence was the fact that even though all alternate realities were being wiped out, Betsy could still "summon" every version of herself while in the White Hot Room. What Hyperbole do you keep talking about? There was a mass in Jeans hand and when asked what it was it was described as an orphan universe, orphan because it was amputated, Marvel later released a bio stating that Jean could in fact manipulate the atoms of an entire universe just as she was shown doing in HCT. How can the past of 616 be changed through the manipulation of another universe?

@LordOfAllHumans said:

I wouldn't give her good odds up to White Phoenix, her warp nor the Chaos wave were able to reach the White Hot Room, Rachel and Betsy were completely protected from what was going on in the "lower planes' from here. Evidence was the fact that even though all alternate realities were being wiped out, Betsy could still "summon" every version of herself while in the White Hot Room.

Firstly, the reason i would give HOM Wanda better odds is because her feats are simply better. I wasnt talking about her warp affecting Phoenix, her warps were never intended to affect phoenix, and Phoenix force has never been considered mutants anyways. The point was her powers, released unconsciously which certainly wasn't her best effort, breached the bounds of 616 reality and wrecked the other worlds and towards the end of the series she actually , with little effort, use her power to undo the damage caused.

What Hyperbole do you keep talking about? There was a mass in Jeans hand and when asked what it was it was described as an orphan universe, orphan because it was amputated, Marvel later released a bio stating that Jean could in fact manipulate the atoms of an entire universe just as she was shown doing in HCT.

While the Hyperbole i said has nothing to do with Here Comes Tomorrow, i do not agree it was an actual universe held on her hand but rather the essence of the universe. This is because:

1. Would you really expect White Phoenix to be bigger than the universe entire?

2. Franklin Richard did exactly that, sitting in his bed room, i dont think anyone would argue a universe, powerful enough to resurrect a dead galactus would be small enough to fit on the hands of a child in a room?

3. Legion did the same thing, he even stuffed the entire universe into a box, and we all know a box < a universe.

4. We have a watcher doing exactly what Jean did during 1604 story arc, and even Watcher are often portrayed smaller than Celestials who are 80 feet tall.

Secondly, it was clearly stated she only manipulated/ extracted sublime atoms from the universe rather than manipulate entire universe atom by atom, and that not including she had various other Phoenix avatar helping her, most of whom were killed. She clearly had help, which is still below universal level.

Also i assume this is the bio you are talking about??

It says the Phoenix force allows her to manipulate matter on a universal scale rather than thats what she did. Its 2 different things, she still hasnt , on panel done it yet and going by bios here's something about Ravenous.

So it clearly read "they are the equals to any herald of Galactus",does that somehow negate the fact that Surfer rather handily beat him in both encounters? Would you still claim since bio says so, expressly so he has to be Surfer's equal?

How can the past of 616 be changed through the manipulation of another universe?

Because she clearly didnt, the feat was directly attributed to Scott and him changing his decision to stay with Emma. All Jean did was touch Scott's past self and to convince him not to leave Emma and Xavier. Grant Morrision pretty clearly explained that, i do not see how there is a leeway.

Here's the relevant scan from X-men 155

I dont see how you are arguing with something as clearly written by the writer.

Why are you arguing about the size of Jean and the universe in that scan? The M'rkaan crystal is in the universe but can be used as door to absorb them into itself. That was not Jeans body, it was her merged with the Phoenix, so yeah I can see her at this point being larger than the universe she manipulated on panel. They are no longer in the physical realms of matter and energy they are in the White Hot Room, trying to low ball the feat by using physical dimensions is a weak argument. You bringing up Legion and the Watcher serves my point, why would the size of them matter,when it's stated that what they are containing is at least the size of a universe, and please research more on what the Watcher actually did before you compare the feats, it was a pocket universe, the universe itself can contain several of those. It was stated on panel that what she was holding was a universe, end of story, sublime elimination was what caused the universe to become wounded because she lost concentration, so instead of just extracting him, she extracted everything.

That bio says while possessed Jean HAS total telekinetic control, which allows her to manipulate atomic structures on a universal scale. What part of that says she didn't do it, especially when she is shown doing it?

How does the last scan of your disprove the feat? What does that have to do with on panel dialog stating what she was doing and how it was done? I have not said anything that opposes this, I think we all know that Jean pushed him so that HCT will never happen. Not sure what you are trying to prove, except that you can copy what MrMaster says very well. How is this evidence that she did not materialized and control the universe atom by atom as stated on panel?

Regardless this is off topic by far as Emma does not have this level of power. HOM Wanda should be more than a match for Emma, but as shown no matter who powerful her feat was she could not reach planes like the White Hot Room and alternate versions of Betsy that should have been caught up in the wake of the Chaos wave were able to manifest in the White Hot Room, and then there is the fact that Wandas otherwise unbreakable spell was broken, by the Phoenix.

It depends... Wanda needed to talk to use her powers, while Emma could mindrape her in a few moments... Question: has Scarlet any strong telepathic defenses??

HOM Scarlet Witch

Amp'd Wanda ftw

@Roddy010 said:

@Supermanwithatan01 said:

There are threads where HOM Wanda has stalemated WPotC and Dark Phoenix! She takes this with near ease...

@Supermanwithatan01: scans please, I just need to see it

HOM wanda takes this without much trouble