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#51 Edited by Vaeternus (9558 posts) - - Show Bio

Going up against Presence seemed impressive if that happened, and let's be honest Presence would destroy HOM Wanda....

If not then I need more info on God Thing...

#52 Posted by JackKnight (2975 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92: @papabearg4d: @czarny_samael666: @needlebay: @tensor: @kingjames447: @rolldestroyer: @thundergodswrath: @sithlantern93: @vaeternus: Actually I made a mistake God Thing never really fought The Presence, Presence just awakens The Word who is the first being created after eons & gived him the mission to stop Swamp thing from gaining his full powers, even Word doubted that can he beat Swamp thing, in the end Word is defeated & cancelled out by Swamp thing's daughter Tefe & Swamp thing gains all the elements power & becomes more powerful then Presence but later decided not to replace Presence & willingly sheds all his powers.

So it was kindof like what Protege from Marvel was doing if you know what I mean and what issue was it? I don't know but I think it was near the end of The Saga of Swamp Thing series from 1986 to 1996.

I wouldn't say Swamp Thing Became more powerful then the Presence (because that would of been full of PIS) I'd say he was on pare with Protege when he copyed the Living Tribunal's powers.

#53 Edited by rolldestroyer (3544 posts) - - Show Bio

@jackknight:

well im not surprised because i myself didn't ever see god thing ever having a fight with presence.

#54 Posted by Shavo (2199 posts) - - Show Bio

@jackknight: that makes more sense...so if he is on par with LT he annihilates wanda

#55 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17181 posts) - - Show Bio

Going up against Presence seemed impressive if that happened, and let's be honest Presence would destroy HOM Wanda....

If not then I need more info on God Thing...

If Presence was chalenged, then we would have to compare his feats with Wanda's and then... he still won according to what I see in this thread, so we would basically base our opinion about GST on his lost battle.

@strider92: @papabearg4d: @czarny_samael666: @needlebay: @tensor: @kingjames447: @rolldestroyer: @thundergodswrath: @sithlantern93: @vaeternus: Actually I made a mistake God Thing never really fought The Presence, Presence just awakens The Word who is the first being created after eons & gived him the mission to stop Swamp thing from gaining his full powers, even Word doubted that can he beat Swamp thing, in the end Word is defeated & cancelled out by Swamp thing's daughter Tefe & Swamp thing gains all the elements power & becomes more powerful then Presence but later decided not to replace Presence & willingly sheds all his powers.

So it was kindof like what Protege from Marvel was doing if you know what I mean and what issue was it? I don't know but I think it was near the end of The Saga of Swamp Thing series from 1986 to 1996.

I wouldn't say Swamp Thing Became more powerful then the Presence (because that would of been full of PIS) I'd say he was on pare with Protege when he copyed the Living Tribunal's powers.

What feats does he have? If none he loses badly.

@jackknight: that makes more sense...so if he is on par with LT he annihilates wanda

He isn't, until it will proven. For now we have empty statement without any feats to prove its claim. So for now HOM Wanda stomps.

#56 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17181 posts) - - Show Bio

Plus it still means that PResence isn't omnipotent.

#57 Edited by Shavo (2199 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: swamp thing who scared the word who is one of the aspects of the GOD of DC vs wanda who can be beat my an average cosmic entity...

#58 Posted by Vaeternus (9558 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingjames447 I agree obviously if Presence went up again HOM Scarlet, that's a nobrainer..Presence will win being Ominipotent, creator of DCU etc

But if God Thing has little or no feats then, I guess HOM will win this specific match? I guess it depends how much power God Thing possesses exactly...

#59 Edited by czarny_samael666 (17181 posts) - - Show Bio

Current version of comicvine makes me angry. I didn't want to flag this thread, as much as I didn't want to flag any thread today, but it seems that I've flagged almost every thread in which I responded today. Simply fantastic.

BTW, Presence isn't omnipotent is he failed to do something or if someone ever manged to give him trouble.

#60 Posted by Shavo (2199 posts) - - Show Bio

@vaeternus: the word is really powerful its an aspect of the presence so its kinda common sense that he would be really powerful and if he is scared of swamp thing at that point in time than that says a lot this is certainly in no way a stomp just because that whole feats crap take it like this does superman 1 mill,shuma gorath,dormammu(in his realm),abraxas,or guys like cytorrak have many feats? not really but are they considered poweful? yes

#61 Posted by Vaeternus (9558 posts) - - Show Bio

Presence is Omnipotent...he's the God of DCU.

@vaeternus: the word is really powerful its an aspect of the presence so its kinda common sense that he would be really powerful and if he is scared of swamp thing at that point in time than that says a lot this is certainly in no way a stomp just because that whole feats crap take it like this does superman 1 mill,shuma gorath,dormammu(in his realm),abraxas,or guys like cytorrak have many feats? not really but are they considered poweful? yes

I hear ya. It's like Presence going up against Galactus, naturally Galactus has "more feats" but that doesn't mean he can beat Presence...I personally hate that logic. I agree.

#62 Edited by SpectresWrath01 (229 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

@kingjames447:

You're refusing to unerstand that if omnipotent being ie even chalenged, then he is not omnipotent at all.

I dont understand this please clarify. Anybody can challenge anybody....I guess what you mean is if someone can puts up a challenge then they are not omnipotent.

1. No Character in MArvel except TOAA cannot even challenge the Presence without being wiped out from existence instantly. Even Lucifer MorningStar said the Presence could have killed him anytime he wanted and wondered why he didnt. Exact quote from Lucifer.

2. For all purposes in the DC Universe the Presence is Omnipotent and so is the GEB. However, even he came into being....whether naturally, by a even higher power, or by his own will without even knowing it? However this is unknown and never explained in the Vertigo series. If a higher power created him then he is not Omnipotent obviously because there is someone above him. But like I said, this was never explained. So for all purposes he is omnipotent.

3. Any Debate with Omnipotent characters are pointless because there is no limit to what they can do. You know the old saying: if someone is omnipotent then can they make a rock that even they cant be up? It stumped alot of people however, there is a answer to this riddle. The answer is simply NO!!!! They cannot! Most people will say well if he cannot create something more powerful than him then he is not Omnipotent and if he can than he is also no omnipotent. Tricky riddles!

However the answer to this is still NO!!!!! Omnipotent beings cannot create something that are more powerful than they are because you see its like Infinity....its like asking someone whats more than Infinity? There is no answer or understanding past that. So a Omnipotent character would create a rock he cannot pick up but because he is Omnipotent he would increase his power so he can pick it up! This would cause a endless loop or cycle that would never stop. Like Infinity his power would keep going up.... always making something bigger or heavier in this case and then always being able to pick it back up!

Thats why debating Omnipotent characters is pointless. TOAA and the Presence would be a draw. Thats if there powers worked in the opposite universes.....if a situation like that could ever happen. Too many what ifs and after a while I just give up.

4. Last but not least: DC IMO was in alot of trouble for making the GEB because how can you have for all purposes 2 omnipotent characters unless there was also a higher power beyond them!

It was a good thing they fused together because with the ultimate evil and the ultimate force for good at a stalemate ment that the DC universe would always have evil and it could not be defeated! Which is a bad thing. Another good question is how can you have 2 omnipotent characters? If one character is Omnipotent and so is another and one character could challenge them then like you said they must not be Omnipotent! This is also a quick assuming thought and logical but wrong. The answer is YES. You can have 2 omnipotent forces that would always end in stalemate. This is why it was a good thing the GEB and the Presence fused because being that they were both Omnipotent: the Presence could never defeat evil.

#63 Edited by Pokergeist (23180 posts) - - Show Bio

If the Presence was threaten by God Thing, then that is proof Presence is below say Franklin Richards to me. LOL.

How can you be the most powerful end all be all of the omniverse, and taken on a Universal being?

HoM stomps hard. Also bravo DC in showing Presence is not omnipotent while One Above All remains so.

Make Mine Marvel.

#64 Edited by Needlebay (2387 posts) - - Show Bio

ST still.

#65 Edited by JackKnight (2975 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: TOAA was also threatend by Protege remember? Protege was threatening to dethrone TOAA until Scathan came.

And God Thing was kindof like that.

I would rank God Thing on par with Protege so in that case God Thing should win this fight.

#66 Posted by Killemall (18748 posts) - - Show Bio

Presence created the omniverse, because DC has an Omniverse. As stated pre and post Flashpoint.

DC and marvel share the same omniverse, after all there is only 1 omniverse.

The company specific terms actually is megaverse, well at least as per marvel.

#67 Posted by Killemall (18748 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: TOAA was also threatend by Protege remember? Protege was threatening to dethrone TOAA until Scathan came.

And God Thing was kindof like that.

I would rank God Thing on par with Protege so in that case God Thing should win this fight.

Protege himself "claimed" he became TOAA which makes sense because he is a kid and though he copied the power of the most powerful being there is (Living Tribunal) and other abstracts.

Its an unwarranted claim, and all Protege can do is copy powers from person he sees using power. He saw LT use his power, copied his power, and hence the 3 heads.

#68 Posted by Dredeuced (6210 posts) - - Show Bio

@needlebay said:

Presence created the omniverse, because DC has an Omniverse. As stated pre and post Flashpoint.

DC and marvel share the same omniverse, after all there is only 1 omniverse.

The company specific terms actually is megaverse, well at least as per marvel.

This isn't true, otherwise Wanda's often cited "omniversal" feat would've affected DC.

#69 Posted by Shavo (2199 posts) - - Show Bio

@spectreswrath01: nobody is debating about the presence im trying to debate about god thing vs wanda but for some reason he want's to bring up presence for some reason even tho the OP replied to everyone that is was the word that he fought at that time but he still wants to argue about presence idk maybe its OCD?

#70 Posted by Killemall (18748 posts) - - Show Bio


This isn't true, otherwise Wanda's often cited "omniversal" feat would've affected DC.

It should have it didnt, however that doesnt change the fact that when marvel defines omniverse its all realities including marvel own and beyond marvel.

I could try and explain but i suppose you would find Marvel own words truthful than my own, so here is a cut from Marvel Handbook 2005 (Alternate realities) where Marvel explains what omniverse actually is in full glory

So there you go :)

Everything is omniverse: real world, single lietary, television show, movie, urban legend, popery to Rockey balboa to Ronald Regan to Romeo and Juliet to Luke Skywalker to Snoopy to Jay and Silent Bob :)

Everything is in the Omniverse, and there is only one Omniverse. Period.

Omni - "all"

Not sure if there is anything else to add :)

#71 Posted by Dredeuced (6210 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced said:

This isn't true, otherwise Wanda's often cited "omniversal" feat would've affected DC.

It should have it didnt, however that doesnt change the fact that when marvel defines omniverse its all realities including marvel own and beyond marvel.

I could try and explain but i suppose you would find Marvel own words truthful than my own, so here is a cut from Marvel Handbook 2005 (Alternate realities) where Marvel explains what omniverse actually is in full glory

So there you go :)

Everything is omniverse: real world, single lietary, television show, movie, urban legend, popery to Rockey balboa to Ronald Regan to Romeo and Juliet to Luke Skywalker to Snoopy to Jay and Silent Bob :)

Everything is in the Omniverse, and there is only one Omniverse. Period.

Omni - "all"

Not sure if there is anything else to add :)

I don't believe Marvel has a say in this, though. They don't determine what happens in real life or in DC's realm. They can't define things, as they interact with their comics, as a single omniverse due to lack of control. If Marvel wants to define everything in all of their creations as their megaverse then so be it, we'll call Wanda's feats megaversal, but nothing in Marvel affects other comic universes or the real world so it's obviously not an omniversal feat like you yourself have said it was in the past.

#72 Posted by Pokergeist (23180 posts) - - Show Bio

@needlebay said:

Presence created the omniverse, because DC has an Omniverse. As stated pre and post Flashpoint.

DC and marvel share the same omniverse, after all there is only 1 omniverse.

The company specific terms actually is megaverse, well at least as per marvel.

Images Omniverse includes only Image Comics... so figure that one out :)

Omniverse can mean whatever a ignorant writer wants it to be, you know what I mean lol.

#73 Edited by Killemall (18748 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced said:

I don't believe Marvel has a say in this, though. They don't determine what happens in real life or in DC's realm. They can't define things, as they interact with their comics, as a single omniverse due to lack of control. If Marvel wants to define everything in all of their creations as their megaverse then so be it, we'll call Wanda's feats megaversal, but nothing in Marvel affects other comic universes or the real world so it's obviously not an omniversal feat like you yourself have said it was in the past.

To really think omniverse being everything does make sense after all as is consistent to the use of word "omni"

But i agree with you on part that Marvel should have no say on what happens to DC, if DC decides to define a term seperate than Marvel , they have full authority.

Its because DC normally doesnt have a bio explaining terms is what makes it hard to see whether they agree or not with the use of omniverse meaning everything.

As per Wanda's feat, the terms "ripped omniverse to shread" was said to explain the feat, it wasnt shown, you could very well chuck it as a hyperbole too, but no character in Marvel should be allowed to actually affect the entire omniverse, because while they might at times get permission from DC, what about every other verse, and Wanda feat had it been truly omniverse by marvel definition should have no only affected DC but every comic book company there is, every movie universe there is, every books there is, and well our own reality.

It could also be that writers within marvel themselves dont know or dont agree to this concept.

In short, yes i agree that concept is weird, i was just putting in why i believe its true, and thats based on marvel words, which when taken into context with action in comics doesnt make sense, unless we decide to chuck every single use of the world omniversal as hyperbole.

EDIT: I seemed to have missed something, i normally explain Wanda feat as omniversal because thats what was said in the comics, and this defination of omniverse is something i came across recently, 2 days ago. I think its fair to call her feat multiversal - megaversal, would be more appropriate.

#74 Edited by Killemall (18748 posts) - - Show Bio


Images Omniverse includes only Image Comics... so figure that one out :)

Omniverse can mean whatever a ignorant writer wants it to be, you know what I mean lol.

Like you know i dont read Image at all, but has Image actually defined Omniverse somewhere. If they have , would you happen to have a scan, because if other companies disagree with how marvel define omniverse, no reason to enforce Marvel's defination on top of other's after all Image has full authority to define their universe the way they want.

#75 Edited by Pokergeist (23180 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: Its all weird. In the Image united, the most powerful heros of the omniverse aregathered, and they are all Image characters.

So that cleary defines to me Image use of Omniverse pertains to their own company and rules.

Guess who was trashing Worlds in the Omniverse? Omega Spawn.

#76 Edited by rolldestroyer (3544 posts) - - Show Bio

just to add to the discussion, DC also has an omniverse:

#77 Posted by Killemall (18748 posts) - - Show Bio

@rolldestroyer: The discussion is about whether DC, Image omniverse is different from what Marvel has, or are they all connected to the same universe.

We know at least, Marvel for one feels they are connected to one omniverse, i was hoping someone could actually bring in an actual definition from any other companies apart from marvel that says otherwise than what Marvel is claiming, because Marvel of course has no authority to enforce its definition on any other companies.

#78 Edited by SC (14769 posts) - - Show Bio

Omniverse is one of those terms that writers throw around will nilly, but no character from any fictional universe can affect the omniverse (apart from the minuscule area that the characters owner can account for, which is like an infinitely small percent) nor many writer writing for any company actually uses the word omniverse by its strict real life application. So Scarlet Witch never affected the entire omniverse, but at the time of her writing editorial wanted to sell the idea that her actions affected far beyond just the mainstream reality, and as a creative preference many writers will use the term omniverse as opposed to megaverse which Marvel editors/continuity gate keepers understand as being a better term for a fictional company that has some realities that are connected under its company banner and some realities that are connected under that banner but for some reason or another out of the range of its more fantastic elements (characters like Living Tribunal) but also realities that they don't own or have creative control over. In any case if one of there characters use the term omniverse in the context of affecting a majority of it you can with full confidence know they don't actually know what they are talking about the same way as if they said they counted to infinity. Its only possible if they change the definition, don't understand it or misunderstand it. The writer might actually understand but also because its all fictional they can just be silly like that. Some writers do write under the impression that you aren't using Marvel comics as a real word dictionary or study material for science or philosophy.

Short story, unless you think fictional 2-D paper characters can beat you up then then no character in comics will have actions that affects the omniverse in a way worth noting. If you believe/trust a comic's definition more than real life's if the two conflict then uhm.. that Batman comic over there says give me al your apples.

Moderator
#79 Posted by Needlebay (2387 posts) - - Show Bio

I think DC's Omniverse is the collective of all it's multiverses. DCA, Elseworld's, it's main multiverse, etc... When Mxy destroyed all of it, he essentially destroyed all of the omniverse.

#80 Posted by JackKnight (2975 posts) - - Show Bio
#81 Edited by SpectresWrath01 (229 posts) - - Show Bio

@jackknight said:

@spectreswrath01: Your comment pretty much hit the nail right there ;)

Thanks. :)

@kingjames447 said:

@spectreswrath01: nobody is debating about the presence im trying to debate about god thing vs wanda but for some reason he want's to bring up presence for some reason even tho the OP replied to everyone that is was the word that he fought at that time but he still wants to argue about presence idk maybe its OCD?

Uh. I dunno. I saw a topic and I replied.

@cadencev2 said:

If the Presence was threaten by God Thing, then that is proof Presence is below say Franklin Richards to me. LOL.

How can you be the most powerful end all be all of the omniverse, and taken on a Universal being?

HoM stomps hard. Also bravo DC in showing Presence is not omnipotent while One Above All remains so.

Make Mine Marvel.

I really dont know where you are coming from? When was the Presence threaten by God Thing? Is this is the DCU? Another thing...both in Marvel and in DC the Presence and TOAA have hinted they come from somewhere else(TOAA) or have came to be ( the Presence). It however does not explain further. It strongly hints that TOAA is a comic book writer in a whole other reality. Which would mean he is omnipotent in Marvel but Marvel only because he is Marvels creator. But that does not make him omnipotent everywhere or in his reality.

So there is doubt on both sides. Id be more objective and show less signs of taking sides. Ppl get labeled that way. Anyway, Both characters are Omnipotent for all purposes. Until proven otherwise....and not by assumptions. Thanks.

#82 Posted by Killemall (18748 posts) - - Show Bio
#83 Posted by uberhikari (2493 posts) - - Show Bio

Didn't your statement already answer the question? One was powerful enough to destroy the omniverse and the other stalemated an omnipotent. I think the answer is pretty clear lolz!

This is a contradiction. An omnipotent, by definition, can't be stalemated. If a being is truly omnipotent they can do whatever they want. So either the Presence wasn't taking the fight seriously or the Presence is not omnipotent.

#84 Posted by JackKnight (2975 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari: I say the Presence is omnipotent and the whole thing with Swamp Thing becoming as powerful as him was PIS or as you said the Presence didn't take the fight seriously.

#85 Edited by TifaLockhart (15363 posts) - - Show Bio

I love omnipotent versus threads.

#86 Edited by rolldestroyer (3544 posts) - - Show Bio

@jackknight said:

@uberhikari: I say the Presence is omnipotent and the whole thing with Swamp Thing becoming as powerful as him was PIS or as you said the Presence didn't take the fight seriously.

well, one statement saying swamp thing could have replaced presence just doesn't cut it.

In a JLA arc, asmodel had the exact same goal, he actually believed and it was stated several times that he's going to replace the presence, and when he tried it, he failed miserably (1st and second scan):

then the presence simply stripped him of his powers (3rd scan):

however there is still the great evil beast affair that disproves his omnipotence.

#87 Posted by uberhikari (2493 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari: I say the Presence is omnipotent and the whole thing with Swamp Thing becoming as powerful as him was PIS or as you said the Presence didn't take the fight seriously.

The Presence stalemated Great Evil Beast. There are only two logical conclusions: either the Presence is not omnipotent or both the Presence and GEB are omnipotent. Most people tend to lean towards the former being true rather than the latter.

#88 Edited by JackKnight (2975 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari: I say both the Presence and GEB are omnipotent orthough I'd say the Presence slightly more powerful, mainly because he created GEB.

You also forgot to mention at infomus panel

Also John Constantine tricked the Presence one time but thats not go deep into that.

#89 Posted by KingOfAsh (3935 posts) - - Show Bio

God Thing