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Posted by JackKnight (2969 posts) - - Show Bio

House of M Scarlet Witch

vs

God Thing

During the House of M event Scarlet Witch becamed so powerful that she could destroy the omniverse and when Swamp thing becomed God Thing he fought the Presence and gave him hell during the fight (which ends with God Thing volunteerily stepping down).

Who wins?

#1 Edited by Strider92 (16837 posts) - - Show Bio

Didn't your statement already answer the question? One was powerful enough to destroy the omniverse and the other stalemated an omnipotent. I think the answer is pretty clear lolz!

#2 Posted by papabearg4d (110 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92 said:

Didn't your statement already answer the question? One was powerful enough to destroy the omniverse and the other stalemated and omnipotent. I think the answer is pretty clear lolz!

I was gonna say the same thing... he already answered his own question lol

#3 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

I would like to see his feats.

#4 Posted by Needlebay (1967 posts) - - Show Bio

God Swamp Thing with ease.

#5 Posted by JackKnight (2969 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: Well I did say that God Thing did fought the Presence and that one point became more powerful then the Presence and God Thing could of replaced the Presence as the supreme being in the DC Omniverse but then decided not to and turnd back into Swamp Thing. But that doesn't mean that HOM Scarlet which woun't give him a good fight, we could say that this is God Thing before becoming powerful enough to fight the Presence so that this fight can become more fair.

#6 Posted by JackKnight (2969 posts) - - Show Bio

@Needlebay: @papabearg4d: @Strider92: Well we could say that this is God Thing before becoming powerful enough to fight the Presence so that this fight can become more fair.

#7 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@JackKnight said:

@czarny_samael666: Well I did say that God Thing did fought the Presence and that one point became more powerful then the Presence and God Thing could of replaced the Presence as the supreme being in the DC Omniverse but then decided not to and turnd back into Swamp Thing. But that doesn't mean that HOM Scarlet which woun't give him a good fight, we could say that this is God Thing before becoming powerful enough to fight the Presence so that this fight can become more fair.

1.It would mean that The Presence isn't omnipotent (we already know that he isn't but let go that) and that he is limited to his feats. He created few multiverses, but Wanda affected whole omniverse and Marvel's one is bigger than DC (BTW, omniverse should be everything, so I would call them Megaverses later), so she would be above Presence anyway.
2.I don't belive that. It is so unbeliveable for me, that I have to see scans on my own eyes. 
#8 Posted by Needlebay (1967 posts) - - Show Bio

Presence created the omniverse, because DC has an Omniverse. As stated pre and post Flashpoint.

#9 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@Needlebay said:

Presence created the omniverse, because DC has an Omniverse. As stated pre and post Flashpoint.

But not as big as Marvel's one.
#10 Posted by Needlebay (1967 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

@Needlebay said:

Presence created the omniverse, because DC has an Omniverse. As stated pre and post Flashpoint.

But not as big as Marvel's one.

It would be about the same. DC has an infinite amount of universes as was stated by Rip Hunter. Hell, in last issue of Phantom Stranger, Belial stated that several million universes was going in and out of him. Which means DC doesn't just have 52 universes.

#11 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@Needlebay said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@Needlebay said:

Presence created the omniverse, because DC has an Omniverse. As stated pre and post Flashpoint.

But not as big as Marvel's one.

It would be about the same. DC has an infinite amount of universes as was stated by Rip Hunter. Hell, in last issue of Phantom Stranger, Belial stated that several million universes was going in and out of him. Which means DC doesn't just have 52 universes.

Several millions are still much less than what Marvel has in primal Multiverse, but it isn't the point. 
The point is that DC had only few Multiverses and MArvel to my knowledge has more than that, but precise numbers would be hard to define right now for me. 
This shouldn't be the point anyway, since I still don't belive that Presence can be replaced.
#12 Posted by Needlebay (1967 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

@Needlebay said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@Needlebay said:

Presence created the omniverse, because DC has an Omniverse. As stated pre and post Flashpoint.

But not as big as Marvel's one.

It would be about the same. DC has an infinite amount of universes as was stated by Rip Hunter. Hell, in last issue of Phantom Stranger, Belial stated that several million universes was going in and out of him. Which means DC doesn't just have 52 universes.

Several millions are still much less than what Marvel has in primal Multiverse, but it isn't the point. The point is that DC had only few Multiverses and MArvel to my knowledge has more than that, but precise numbers would be hard to define right now for me. This shouldn't be the point anyway, since I still don't belive that Presence can be replaced.

It was NEVER stated that it was ONLY several million universes. That is what Belial when he was in that dimension ALONE. Like I said before, Rip Hunter stated that there is an infinite amount of universes that never ends and even new universes pop up everytime. So, it would be equal.

#13 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@Needlebay said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@Needlebay said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@Needlebay said:

Presence created the omniverse, because DC has an Omniverse. As stated pre and post Flashpoint.

But not as big as Marvel's one.

It would be about the same. DC has an infinite amount of universes as was stated by Rip Hunter. Hell, in last issue of Phantom Stranger, Belial stated that several million universes was going in and out of him. Which means DC doesn't just have 52 universes.

Several millions are still much less than what Marvel has in primal Multiverse, but it isn't the point. The point is that DC had only few Multiverses and MArvel to my knowledge has more than that, but precise numbers would be hard to define right now for me. This shouldn't be the point anyway, since I still don't belive that Presence can be replaced.

It was NEVER stated that it was ONLY several million universes. That is what Belial when he was in that dimension ALONE. Like I said before, Rip Hunter stated that there is an infinite amount of universes that never ends and even new universes pop up everytime. So, it would be equal.

I haven't said that it was the limit, I've said that it doesn't prove that it is as big as Marvel one.  Don't tell me that You don't see the difference.
DC has finite number of universes, since COIE AM could destroy almost all of them.
#14 Posted by Needlebay (1967 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

@Needlebay said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@Needlebay said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@Needlebay said:

Presence created the omniverse, because DC has an Omniverse. As stated pre and post Flashpoint.

But not as big as Marvel's one.

It would be about the same. DC has an infinite amount of universes as was stated by Rip Hunter. Hell, in last issue of Phantom Stranger, Belial stated that several million universes was going in and out of him. Which means DC doesn't just have 52 universes.

Several millions are still much less than what Marvel has in primal Multiverse, but it isn't the point. The point is that DC had only few Multiverses and MArvel to my knowledge has more than that, but precise numbers would be hard to define right now for me. This shouldn't be the point anyway, since I still don't belive that Presence can be replaced.

It was NEVER stated that it was ONLY several million universes. That is what Belial when he was in that dimension ALONE. Like I said before, Rip Hunter stated that there is an infinite amount of universes that never ends and even new universes pop up everytime. So, it would be equal.

I haven't said that it was the limit, I've said that it doesn't prove that it is as big as Marvel one. Don't tell me that You don't see the difference.DC has finite number of universes, since COIE AM could destroy almost all of them.

I never said DCnU Multiverse was as big as Marvel's to begin with. I'm talking about Pre-Flashpoint/Pre-Crisis DC's omniverse, which would be as big, since there is infinite multiverses/universes. Understand?

#15 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@Needlebay

 I never said DCnU Multiverse was as big as Marvel's to begin with. I'm talking about Pre-Flashpoint/Pre-Crisis DC's omniverse, which would be as big, since there is infinite multiverses/universes. Understand?

No, there are finite universes in prime DC Multiverse, pretty much as in Marvel, since in both multiverses were people who almost eat them (COIE AM and Chaos King). 
But Marvel has more multiverses. And we know about bigger number of Marvel universes in prime multiverse than we know about DC's one :
#16 Posted by Needlebay (1967 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

@Needlebay:

I never said DCnU Multiverse was as big as Marvel's to begin with. I'm
talking about Pre-Flashpoint/Pre-Crisis DC's omniverse, which would be
as big, since there is infinite multiverses/universes. Understand?

No, there are finite universes in prime DC Multiverse, pretty much as in Marvel, since in both multiverses were people who almost eat them (COIE AM and Chaos King).
But Marvel has more multiverses. And we know about bigger number of Marvel universes in prime multiverse than we know about DC's one :

No, it was stated to be "INFINITE". Don't ignore on panel proof.

#17 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@Needlebay
As was Marvel's, but it is against the logic. Infinte object can't be fully eaten. Both: DC and Marvel Multiverses were.
#18 Posted by Needlebay (1967 posts) - - Show Bio

But they weren't entirely eaten in DC. DC, Pre-Crisis had inifitnte amount and that's all that matters. So, I'll go with the on panel proof.

#19 Posted by Needlebay (1967 posts) - - Show Bio

But they weren't entirely eaten in DC. DC, Pre-Crisis had inifitnte amount and that's all that matters. So, I'll go with the on panel proof.

#20 Posted by tensor (5117 posts) - - Show Bio

God thing has this

#21 Posted by Shavo (2061 posts) - - Show Bio

LOL god thing fought presence who is the creator of the dcuo the answer is pretty obvious..

#22 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

@JackKnight said:

@czarny_samael666: Well I did say that God Thing did fought the Presence and that one point became more powerful then the Presence and God Thing could of replaced the Presence as the supreme being in the DC Omniverse but then decided not to and turnd back into Swamp Thing. But that doesn't mean that HOM Scarlet which woun't give him a good fight, we could say that this is God Thing before becoming powerful enough to fight the Presence so that this fight can become more fair.

1.It would mean that The Presence isn't omnipotent (we already know that he isn't but let go that) and that he is limited to his feats. He created few multiverses, but Wanda affected whole omniverse and Marvel's one is bigger than DC (BTW, omniverse should be everything, so I would call them Megaverses later), so she would be above Presence anyway. 2.I don't belive that. It is so unbeliveable for me, that I have to see scans on my own eyes.

that's called PIS, there are a couple of instances where it was stated that someone became more powerful than the presence. there was a time it was stated that the spectre has power even the presence itself must fear (day of judgment), another time it was COIE when he was fighting the AM it was stated that he became superior (it wasn't exactly stated superior but something of that nature i can't recall now) to his master. i think we should ignore these kind of statements and consider since presence is God he should be superior to anyone in DC period.

#23 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@KINGJAMES447 said:

LOL god thing fought presence who is the creator of the dcuo the answer is pretty obvious..

when did he fight the presence?

#24 Posted by Shavo (2061 posts) - - Show Bio

@rolldestroyer said:

@KINGJAMES447 said:

LOL god thing fought presence who is the creator of the dcuo the answer is pretty obvious..

when did he fight the presence?

idk the OP said he fought the presence and gave him a hard time ask him

#25 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@JackKnight: when did god thing fight the presence? because to my knowledge nothing like that happened.

#26 Posted by JackKnight (2969 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: Ok why are you saying that HOM wanda is more powerful then the Presence because her universe is bigger? it doesn't matter is DC's omniverse isn't has big as Marvel's DC STILL!!!!!!! has an omniverse!

What I'am try to say is size =/= power! the first boss of Asura's Warth is an example of it LOL!

#27 Posted by Bronze_Surfer (2986 posts) - - Show Bio

@jackknight: I still don't get why people say that marvel and dc has there own Omniverse. Either way God Thing wins to me. They said that the chaos wave could have effected the throne of god. But there is many gods so we don't even know which one it was. Also it was stated by a character so i doubt they could call out something that could threat TOAA. Presence for the most part is the dc version of TOAA (Damn that Over/Prime moniter) and since he could even chalenge him makes him win.

#28 Posted by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio

God Swamp-Thing.

#29 Posted by SithLantern93 (2195 posts) - - Show Bio

@JackKnight

said:

@czarny_samael666: Well I did say that God Thing did fought the Presence and that one point became more powerful then the Presence and God Thing could of replaced the Presence as the supreme being in the DC Omniverse but then decided not to and turnd back into Swamp Thing. But that doesn't mean that HOM Scarlet which woun't give him a good fight, we could say that this is God Thing before becoming powerful enough to fight the Presence so that this fight can become more fair.

1.It would mean that The Presence isn't omnipotent (we already know that he isn't but let go that) and that he is limited to his feats. He created few multiverses, but Wanda affected whole omniverse and Marvel's one is bigger than DC (BTW, omniverse should be everything, so I would call them Megaverses later), so she would be above Presence anyway.

#30 Edited by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

But they weren't entirely eaten in DC. DC, Pre-Crisis had inifitnte amount and that's all that matters. So, I'll go with the on panel proof.

On panel it was proven that one being can reduce it to 52.

LOL god thing fought presence who is the creator of the dcuo the answer is pretty obvious..

Prove it. And prove that if Presence isn't omnipotent (he can't be if GT really fought with him), that Presence power is above Wanda's.

@czarny_samael666 said:

@JackKnight said:

@czarny_samael666: Well I did say that God Thing did fought the Presence and that one point became more powerful then the Presence and God Thing could of replaced the Presence as the supreme being in the DC Omniverse but then decided not to and turnd back into Swamp Thing. But that doesn't mean that HOM Scarlet which woun't give him a good fight, we could say that this is God Thing before becoming powerful enough to fight the Presence so that this fight can become more fair.

1.It would mean that The Presence isn't omnipotent (we already know that he isn't but let go that) and that he is limited to his feats. He created few multiverses, but Wanda affected whole omniverse and Marvel's one is bigger than DC (BTW, omniverse should be everything, so I would call them Megaverses later), so she would be above Presence anyway. 2.I don't belive that. It is so unbeliveable for me, that I have to see scans on my own eyes.

that's called PIS, there are a couple of instances where it was stated that someone became more powerful than the presence. there was a time it was stated that the spectre has power even the presence itself must fear (day of judgment), another time it was COIE when he was fighting the AM it was stated that he became superior (it wasn't exactly stated superior but something of that nature i can't recall now) to his master. i think we should ignore these kind of statements and consider since presence is God he should be superior to anyone in DC period.

This isn't PIS, Presence isn't omnipotent. How it can be PIS anyway? Presence simply is just superior to others, but if two beings that ever fought with him would team up, then he should lose. If they really fought with him.

@czarny_samael666: Ok why are you saying that HOM wanda is more powerful then the Presence because her universe is bigger? it doesn't matter is DC's omniverse isn't has big as Marvel's DC STILL!!!!!!! has an omniverse!

What I'am try to say is size =/= power! the first boss of Asura's Warth is an example of it LOL!

No. I am saying that if he isn't omnipotent - and he isn't - then only thing that matters are his feats. And HOM Wanda affected all that could be affected. If Presence would have omniversal (megaversal) feat, THEN size of megaversum and then its multiverses would matter.

IDK who is Asura. It is some anime or game character, right?

@jackknight: I still don't get why people say that marvel and dc has there own Omniverse. Either way God Thing wins to me. They said that the chaos wave could have effected the throne of god. But there is many gods so we don't even know which one it was. Also it was stated by a character so i doubt they could call out something that could threat TOAA. Presence for the most part is the dc version of TOAA (Damn that Over/Prime moniter) and since he could even chalenge him makes him win.

He isn't. Presence is a DC' character. TOAA is will of writers. That is why he can never be defeated and is omnipotent. Presence isn't omnipotent, that is why his feats matters.

God Swamp-Thing.

Based on?

#31 Edited by Shavo (2061 posts) - - Show Bio
#32 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666:

This isn't PIS, Presence isn't omnipotent. How it can be PIS anyway? Presence simply is just superior to others, but if two beings that ever fought with him would team up, then he should lose. If they really fought with him

how isn't this PIS? swamp thing becoming more powerful than God isn't PIS? and like i mentioned before this isn't the first time someone is said to be superior to presence, like spectre for example, can spectre logically be more powerful than the presence? never because he's part of him/it. Presence may be not omnipotent (although it's debatable) but he surely is the supreme being in DC alongside primal monitor.

#33 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: uhmmm when did i say presence isn't omnipotent?...

By saying that God ST gived him a fight.

There is no fight against omnipotent being. He just erase You from existance. If he can't - he isn't omnipotent, so You just fought with some powerfull being, but not with omnipotent one. It is impossible.

You can always say that Presence could do it whole the time, but it would mean that fight between him and GST is irrelevant, since GST was never a real enemy for Big P.

Either way: Presence or GST has to have objective feat above HOM Wanda.

@czarny_samael666:

This isn't PIS, Presence isn't omnipotent. How it can be PIS anyway? Presence simply is just superior to others, but if two beings that ever fought with him would team up, then he should lose. If they really fought with him

how isn't this PIS? swamp thing becoming more powerful than God isn't PIS? and like i mentioned before this isn't the first time someone is said to be superior to presence, like spectre for example, can spectre logically be more powerful than the presence? never because he's part of him/it. Presence may be not omnipotent (although it's debatable) but he surely is the supreme being in DC alongside primal monitor.

If God isn't omnipotent - it isn't PIS.

Either way - I stiil haven't seen that fight and I belive that we actually both don't belive that GST wins thi battle.

Read my answer to kingjames447

#34 Posted by Shavo (2061 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: the OP said he gave presence a rough time so obviously im gonna go with thing...

#35 Posted by JackKnight (2969 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: So what if the Presence didn't show much of his feats? TOAA hasn't done much aswell and you can forget about TOAA being the writers that was all but a gimmick and if TOAA really was the writers why did he appear was a hobo in "Spider-Man: Back in Black" instead of Stan Lee? LOL!

I'm not being a fanboy but what I'am saying is just because The Presence hasn't show much feats doesn't mean that he isn't truly omnipotent.

Anyways God Swamp Thing should win here but I think it could be an interesting fight.

As for Asura, well I did say "first boss of Asura's Warth" that should prove that he is a video game character and I did recommend you look him up ;)

#36 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666:

If God isn't omnipotent - it isn't PIS.

Either way - I stiil haven't seen that fight and I belive that we actually both don't belive that GST wins thi battle.

Read my answer to kingjames447

i dont think there is a fight, the only thing i know that happened is that a single sentence stating that he could have replaced God, nothing beyond that.

#37 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: the OP said he gave presence a rough time so obviously im gonna go with thing...

1.You don't know it for sure.

2.If he did and You belive it, then You also belive that Presence isn't omnipotent, becuase omnipotent being can't have a rough time with anyone. Ergo, Presence wouldn't be different from any other Cosmic Entity and as all of them we would need a prove that he is above HOM Wanda.

@czarny_samael666: So what if the Presence didn't show much of his feats? TOAA hasn't done much aswell and you can forget about TOAA being the writers that was all but a gimmick and if TOAA really was the writers why did he appear was a hobo in "Spider-Man: Back in Black" instead of Stan Lee? LOL!

I'm not being a fanboy but what I'am saying is just because The Presence hasn't show much feats doesn't mean that he isn't truly omnipotent.

Anyways God Swamp Thing should win here but I think it could be an interesting fight.

As for Asura, well I did say "first boss of Asura's Warth" that should prove that he is a video game character and I did recommend you look him up ;)

1.If Presence is omnipotent, like TOAA, then he don't feats - he can do everything. But if someone can chalenge him, then he isn't omnipotent and his supporter - in this case You - have to prove that he is above HOM Wanda.

2.I never called You a fanboy and I belive that most people here simply misunderstood what being omnipotent really means. I never even thought about thinking about anyone in this thread fanboy.

3.To belive that God Thing can do anything, I need a prove. And case about his meeting with Presence is still not finished. But just for giving him more chances: Has he done anything else? Anything - something in this level

4.Oh, yes I somehow missed part about boss. I have just look on some battle on YT. Seesm familiar to my GOW trylogy on PS3.

#38 Edited by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666:

If God isn't omnipotent - it isn't PIS.

Either way - I stiil haven't seen that fight and I belive that we actually both don't belive that GST wins thi battle.

Read my answer to kingjames447

i dont think there is a fight, the only thing i know that happened is that a single sentence stating that he could have replaced God, nothing beyond that.

I thougt so. Which means that GST is probably featless.

#39 Posted by Shavo (2061 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: if the OP said it why don't you go and argue with him also stop putting words in my mouth saying that i said presence is not omnipotent....

#40 Edited by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: So what if the Presence didn't show much of his feats? TOAA hasn't done much aswell and you can forget about TOAA being the writers that was all but a gimmick and if TOAA really was the writers why did he appear was a hobo in "Spider-Man: Back in Black" instead of Stan Lee? LOL!

I'm not being a fanboy but what I'am saying is just because The Presence hasn't show much feats doesn't mean that he isn't truly omnipotent.

Anyways God Swamp Thing should win here but I think it could be an interesting fight.

As for Asura, well I did say "first boss of Asura's Warth" that should prove that he is a video game character and I did recommend you look him up ;)

it was clearly shown IIRC in fantastic four hereafter that TOAA is the writer, to the point where they show he can literally affect the marvel universe/characters with his pencil, it's not a gimmick it's a fact.

#41 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: if the OP said it why don't you go and argue with him also stop putting words in my mouth saying that i said presence is not omnipotent....

1.I am doing it already.

2.You may not realise it, but You've did it.

#42 Edited by Shavo (2061 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666:first thing i ever said in this thread "LOL god thing fought presence who is the creator of the dcuo the answer is pretty obvious.." you can go ahead and read that and if you read that correctly i did not say thing beat presence or is above him in any way...

#43 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666:first thing i ever said in this thread "LOL god thing fought presence who is the creator of the dcuo the answer is pretty obvious.." you can go ahead and read that and if you read that correctly i did not say thing beat presence or is above him in any way...

But You assumed that GTS was a chalenge for him. Omnipotent being has no chalenges.

#44 Posted by Shavo (2061 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingjames447 said:

@czarny_samael666:first thing i ever said in this thread "LOL god thing fought presence who is the creator of the dcuo the answer is pretty obvious.." you can go ahead and read that and if you read that correctly i did not say thing beat presence or is above him in any way...

But You assumed that GTS was a chalenge for him. Omnipotent being has no chalenges.

why are you arguing with me about this? your acting like said SWAMP THING CURBMUDERSTOMPED PRESENCE IN THAT FIGHT -__-

#45 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingjames447:

You're refusing to unerstand that if omnipotent being ie even chalenged, then he is not omnipotent at all.

#46 Posted by Shavo (2061 posts) - - Show Bio
#47 Posted by Vaeternus (9410 posts) - - Show Bio

Godthing

#48 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
#49 Edited by Vaeternus (9410 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh you can challenge someone omnipotent, you'll just lose lol

@ czarny_sameel666

It's feats....

#50 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh you can challenge someone omnipotent, you'll just lose lol

@ czarny_sameel666

It's feats....

Wihch feats? Which ones put him above HOM Wanda?