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#1 Posted by AllStarSuperman (20011 posts) - - Show Bio

Movie Kick-Ass and Hit-Girl vs Arrow TV show

In character, Standard Weapons, Start at opposite sides of Walmart. Location is fully accessible.

Hit-Girl goes after Arrow, while Kick-Ass goes for Roy

#2 Posted by RisingBean (3574 posts) - - Show Bio

Arrow solos.

Does that sound good? I like it. Ok. Arrow solos.

#3 Posted by darkbeam (2093 posts) - - Show Bio

Hit Girl and Kick Ass win.Roys the handicap.

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#4 Edited by Fallschirmjager (15143 posts) - - Show Bio

Arrow solos. Dude just shot a m14 grenade out of the air at less than 25-50 feet.

#5 Posted by AllStarSuperman (20011 posts) - - Show Bio

@fallschirmjager: @risingbean: its very close IMO, Hit-Girl has dodged bullets so she will be able to dodge arrows, not to mention this is in character so Arrow isn't going to shoot her in the face.

#6 Edited by Fallschirmjager (15143 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman: Ollie dodges bullets all the time too =P

I don't think a skill advantage for either of them can be made. They're both pretty damn good. But Hit-Girl has shown a weakness in both movies to being overcome by physically superior fighters and Ollie mostly definitely is.

#7 Posted by RisingBean (3574 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman: It's not like she dodged bullets/ranged attacks from somebody on Oliver's level. Dodging the aim of John Q Thug and Oliver Queen is worlds apart. Oliver can put Kickass down without effort and Hitgirl with minimal.

#8 Posted by AllStarSuperman (20011 posts) - - Show Bio

@risingbean: @fallschirmjager: Im not talking aim dodging im saying she 2 times has bullet level reaction time. dodges them after there fired at her face. accuracy is not the question. because bullets move faster then arrows. and I don't recalled arrow actually being a bullet timer, except todays episode were he shoots the grenade.

#9 Edited by Fallschirmjager (15143 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman: he gets shot at almost every episode and avoid gettings hit. The only person who hit him has been Deadshot who I think we all can agree is a world-class marksmen

#10 Posted by JediXMan (29563 posts) - - Show Bio

Arrow stomps.

#11 Posted by Cable_Extreme (8602 posts) - - Show Bio

Arrow can solo, Harper has also shown some fair Hand to Hand feats, but Kick-Ass is better than Roy. Ollie however could effortlessly arrow Kick-Ass in less than a second (not killing him, but stopping him from fighting) and take out Hit-Girl with minimal effort.

#12 Posted by AllStarSuperman (20011 posts) - - Show Bio

lets not forget Hit-Girl is good with guns and that even if this goes H2H, he isn't gonna go all "bash her brains in with a rock"

#13 Edited by silent_bomber (1510 posts) - - Show Bio

@fallschirmjager said:

@allstarsuperman: he gets shot at almost every episode and avoid gettings hit.

Unless you see the bullet fired at him, see him in its way, and then see him move out of the way then its not bullet dodging.

Either its classed as aim dodging (where he moves before the bullet is fired), or plot armour/hero tracking failure, where the villains are simply missing him, or are firing behind him whilst he runs in an easy to predict direction.

Arrow definitely has at least a rock solid Arrow dodging feat though, which is still impressive.

#14 Posted by AllStarSuperman (20011 posts) - - Show Bio

also the location is accessible, means that hit-girl could kill the lights and go all flashlight gun on Arrow, or that arrow or hitgirl could go to the kitchen knives area and stock up on throwing weapons. theres a bunch of variables.

#15 Posted by Fallschirmjager (15143 posts) - - Show Bio

@silent_bomber: I don't remember Hit-Girl doing that with bullets. Have a video/gif?

#16 Edited by silent_bomber (1510 posts) - - Show Bio
#17 Edited by Fallschirmjager (15143 posts) - - Show Bio

@silent_bomber: thanks

Don't think it hands victory to hit girl though. In a store its going to be hard to get a clear line of sight to start shooting. more often than not it comes down to close combat if not H2H imo.

Ollie also has things like smoke grenades that he carries on him.

#18 Posted by RisingBean (3574 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman: Unless she is superhuman she isn't moving faster then 800 meters a second. She is aim dodging. She was in motion and the bullet zipped by her head.

#19 Posted by Fallschirmjager (15143 posts) - - Show Bio
#20 Posted by silent_bomber (1510 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman: Unless she is superhuman she isn't moving faster then 800 meters a second. She is aim dodging. She was in motion and the bullet zipped by her head.

No, her head is directly in the path of the bullet after it has been fired, then she moves out of the way, its cast iron.

Yes, she has superhuman reaction feats, Merlyn and Arrow also have feats that no real human could do.

and when her body is in fight or flight mode from adrenaline she literally experiences time in slow motion.

Something else no ordinary human could do, adrenaline does not give you superpowers, it shifts your body's natural resources.

#21 Posted by AllStarSuperman (20011 posts) - - Show Bio

@risingbean:

you need to listen to silent bomber, he will explain bullet timing to you, and please please don't go all wardemon on us with the whole "its not realistic", obvious its not, its a movie.

#22 Edited by RisingBean (3574 posts) - - Show Bio

@silent_bomber: Then she is obviously superhuman.

@allstarsuperman Doesn't ruin the movie but I almost think they are flukes, meant to be "awesome visuals" rather then power levels. Come to think of it Bullseyes own snatching of glass comes to mind in Daredevil.

As it is, Unless she is shown to consistently do stuff like that, I still think Ollie would come out ahead. He has a few "post" human feats as well if we're playing it as more then the stars aligning.

#23 Posted by AllStarSuperman (20011 posts) - - Show Bio

@risingbean: im not quite sure what you mean about bulleye? Hit-Girl was shown to bullet time at least twice. does that mean she could dodge a punch or kick from arrow? NO it does not, but could she dodge the arrow itself, yes she could. This fight is really even IMO, I just am making these points so people don't autojump onto the ArrowSoloStomps bandwagon.

#24 Posted by Fallschirmjager (15143 posts) - - Show Bio

@risingbean: im not quite sure what you mean about bulleye? Hit-Girl was shown to bullet time at least twice. does that mean she could dodge a punch or kick from arrow? NO it does not, but could she dodge the arrow itself, yes she could. This fight is really even IMO, I just am making these points so people don't autojump onto the ArrowSoloStomps bandwagon.

Like I said earlier. She also show weaknesses to physically superior foes in two instances as well And Ollie is most definitely physically superior.

They've both dodged projectiles and the fight is in a store, filled with tons of objects to obscure LoS. Ollie also has smoke arrows on him.

9/10 this is going to come down to very close combat or H2H.

#25 Posted by AllStarSuperman (20011 posts) - - Show Bio

@fallschirmjager: Arrow is stronger, theres no argument, but Hit-Girl takes kicks, punches, and gets thrown around, by Mother Russia. Mother Russia was superhuman, no doubt, she was able to toss a propane tank through a windshield, stop a rocking car with her foot, and rip a car door off with her bare hands. So this proves to show that Hit-Girl is very very durable.

If it does come down to H2H, Arrow does have a skill advantage, but again this is season 2 and he isn't as brutal, not gonna pound her face in. Hit-Girl is just as brutal as ever, and will be willing to bite him or stab him with anything she can get her hands on.

#26 Posted by Fallschirmjager (15143 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman: His brutality hasn't lessened, just his willingness to kill. He still shoots and tortures people with little to no remorse. He just isn't trying to kill them.

#27 Posted by RisingBean (3574 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman: If Oliver has a skills advantage, and is obviously physically stronger, and is very obviously going to win a ranged battle, do you think her resolve to take a few more blows is going to change the outcome of the majority of fights? Without the X factor that keeps this from being a sweep, how does this end? A few arrows in the legs? And even if she can "bullet dodge" that doesn't mean she'll do it every time. Not that it matters, because Ollie can pretty much throw arrows into her. If it goes to H2H he should take it handily.

A small majority of posters may feel this fight is a decent one, I really don't. Sure you can pull out the "Hit Girl is superhuman" argument, but that is the one chance to keep this from being a stomp.

#28 Posted by AllStarSuperman (20011 posts) - - Show Bio

@risingbean: as I said this is very even like 50/50 even. Hit-girl is faster, more durable, and more ruthless, while Ollie has strength and skill on his side. H2H ollie takes a majority, but there's always the off chance that kick-ass bashes him in the head after beating Roy. Keep in mind Hit girl has throwing stars and knives as well.

#29 Posted by RisingBean (3574 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman: I think shooting people is pretty ruthless. As for more durable? I don't think she is any more durable then any other eleven year old. She may have shown a higher pain factor and that is debatable. Ollie was sliced up and tortured and didn't give up his secrets. He stabbed himself with an arrow through his chest to get at Merlyn and didn't go down. so on and forth.

I don't think Roy who in his limited fights used parkour to beat 2-3 thugs up at a time is going to fall to Kickass. He may not decisively win, but that just means when Ollie wins his majority, he goes and manhandles Kickass.

#30 Posted by AllStarSuperman (20011 posts) - - Show Bio

@risingbean: Hit-Girl takes kicks, punches, and gets thrown around, by Mother Russia. Mother Russia was superhuman, no doubt, she was able to toss a propane tank through a windshield, stop a rocking car with her foot, and rip a car door off with her bare hands. So this proves to show that Hit-Girl is very very durable.

GIF 1, she takes a explosion that sends her flying into a statue with no injury.

GIF 2, she takes a kick from Mother Russia with no injury, (Mother Russia was practically superhuman).

Also you honestly think Roy > Kick-Ass, um, I respectably disagree.

#31 Edited by batd12345678 (34 posts) - - Show Bio

ok silly question.

Arrow uses one of his trick arrows and stuns her and then shoots another arrow and kills her.

While roy beats kick ass.

#32 Posted by Fallschirmjager (15143 posts) - - Show Bio

@batd12345678: roy doesnt have enough feats yet to beat kickass, but he'd be hard to take down. Roy has several instances of chasing down/running away from people and could play the delay game.

especially given Ollie's view on Roy - at this point he doesn't want him to get involved so if they were to get into a fight, he'd probably order Roy to avoid direct combat.

#33 Posted by AllStarSuperman (20011 posts) - - Show Bio

@batd12345678: dude come on its not that easy. read some of me and silent bombers posts, this is really even

#34 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (19916 posts) - - Show Bio

@risingbean said:

@allstarsuperman: Unless she is superhuman she isn't moving faster then 800 meters a second. She is aim dodging. She was in motion and the bullet zipped by her head.

No, her head is directly in the path of the bullet after it has been fired, then she moves out of the way, its cast iron.

Yes, she has superhuman reaction feats, Merlyn and Arrow also have feats that no real human could do.

and when her body is in fight or flight mode from adrenaline she literally experiences time in slow motion.

Something else no ordinary human could do, adrenaline does not give you superpowers, it shifts your body's natural resources.

She only uses adrenaline as a last resort though.

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#35 Posted by RisingBean (3574 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman: Yet this guy beats her. He has her at his mercy, laid out, crying and her vision going blurry. If you want to show her best, don't forget her worst. If we look at her feats with an average, and consider both peak high showings and low showings as flukes, Arrow has shown to beat a higher class of foe and to be a tougher person on the whole. He is a better fighter and has an advantage in ranged attacks and trick arrows. so if he has every advantage short of plot, or fluke, how is she winning?

She may get a few. A majority? She's out of her league. Also if you want to pull durability feats, show me some of her piercing or slashing damage. When she gets shot, shrugs it off and beats the brakes off of a character in Oliver's skill ballpark, we'll talk.

And Roy has had little time to shine. I know he did handily beat up a few thugs. While I won't say he can beat Kick Ass he doesn't have to a majority of the time. Kick Ass is a non factor to Ollie who can take him out at leisure.

#36 Posted by SHAZAM117 (2629 posts) - - Show Bio

Going with Ollie and Harper

#37 Posted by AllStarSuperman (20011 posts) - - Show Bio

@risingbean: I knew it, I knew it, somebody had to pull the she got beat by Frank D'Amico card. Well guess what, That could have been anywhere from 2 to 4 years ago. And we don't know for sure how good he was, I mean he did have a fully build Dojo right next to is office, so obviously he takes martial arts seriously. And at the time of there fight, Hit-Girl had been shot twice, already killed like 30 people that night, her dad just died, and was obviously worn out by the hallway seen.

You bringing up Frank D'Amico is like if I were to say Ollie sucks because (yadda yadda some feat of his when he just arrives to the island.)

#38 Posted by AllStarSuperman (20011 posts) - - Show Bio

@silent_bomber: hey man thanks for making all the GIFs there really helpful, but can you make one of her where mother Russia punches her in the face and Hit-Girl just smiles? please?

#39 Posted by RisingBean (3574 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman: In your defense, Ollie did suck when he got to the island. Also I have to pull the Frank D'Amico card. It was like her main fight of the movie. I agree he takes martial arts seriously, but I wouldn't put him up against Ollie, or Slade or Merlyn and expect the masses here to say he wins.

The point I made with the clip was though somehow she can take kicks from MR, and got knocked back by an impact wave (more hollywood cool then anything else. ) she also got her ass handed to her by this guy. So it downplays her from superfast Flash with Wolverine Durability Goddess to somebody that can lose to a guy who 1. Went through puberty, 2. spent years in a life or death struggle and 3 has shown to be a pinnacle of street level.

#40 Posted by dorukesin (5125 posts) - - Show Bio

keep calm and

#41 Posted by AllStarSuperman (20011 posts) - - Show Bio

@risingbean: yeah Frank D'Amico is no Slade, but I just don't want to hear that "just a random thug". And approximately Hit-Girl and Frank fought 3 years ago, Kick-Ass says in Kick-Ass 2 that Hit-Girl was training everyday. that's a lot of training in 3 years, not to mention she got bigger and taller. But yeah, this is a hard fought fight and I find it IMO, to be dead even.

#42 Posted by RisingBean (3574 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman: Fine fine, to you it's dead even. I'll give you Frank is a cut above the fodder in that movie and she does have a bit of training past that. But the stuff I bring up should still apply. Durability doesn't go up as you get old.

Personally I think It's Oliver's fight to lose.

#43 Edited by JwwProd (8648 posts) - - Show Bio

Arrow solos.

#44 Posted by silent_bomber (1510 posts) - - Show Bio

@risingbean: I knew it, I knew it, somebody had to pull the she got beat by Frank D'Amico card. Well guess what, That could have been anywhere from 2 to 4 years ago.

I'm not up with US terms, but they call her a freshman in Kick-Ass 2, isn't that 14-15?

She's 11 in the first movie?

I've seen some reviews online saying Kick-Ass (film versions) are set four years apart, 11 in KA1, 15 in KA2.

So yeah, she was 11 when Frank beat her, and is 15 now.

I think there's also reasonable doubt that this is actually natural anyway.

I mean, 11 year old's are like, what? 5 stone? and he throws her down with enough force to break all four legs.

I asked some friends and they agreed that this strike (which is the move that dazed her) looks kinda' excessive.

-----------------------------------------------

Also, no way in hell did she have the durability of an 11 year old in the first movie. An 11 year old girl would not be getting up from a full grown adult hitting them as hard as they can in the head. Period. In the second movie she has two good durability feats, that kick from Mother Russia looks like it throws her as far as a car traveling at like 15-20 mile an hour would, a normal human would be hurt.

#45 Posted by AllStarSuperman (20011 posts) - - Show Bio

@silent_bomber: In Kick-Ass shes 11 (but at the end shes going into 9th grade? that makes no sense), In Kick-Ass 2 shes 15 (and shes just starting 9th grade), That leads us to believe it's been 4 years, but News channel Lady said the its only been 2 years sense Kick-Ass' first appearance, so the timeline is very screwed up.

Whats 5 stone? I would guess shes supposedly around 90 pounds.

That table breaking hit is intense, but I don't see what you mean, IMO, it doesn't compare to the explosion throw, but then again theres a couple years difference.

#46 Edited by silent_bomber (1510 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman said:

@silent_bomber: In Kick-Ass shes 11 (but at the end shes going into 9th grade? that makes no sense), In Kick-Ass 2 shes 15 (and shes just starting 9th grade), That leads us to believe it's been 4 years, but News channel Lady said the its only been 2 years sense Kick-Ass' first appearance, so the timeline is very screwed up.

Ah, I see, so the movie contradicts itself :(

I did actually see some mention about this to be honest but didn't really check into it. Essentially Hit-Girl was aged an extra 3 years in the movie due to Chloe Moretz getting older between films, but Kick-Ass himself has been kept close to his original comic timeline because otherwise he wouldn't be in school anymore. So yeah, it doesn't really make sense.

@allstarsuperman said:

@silent_bomber: That table breaking hit is intense, but I don't see what you mean, IMO, it doesn't compare to the explosion throw, but then again theres a couple years difference.

What I mean, is that I'm not sure an "average" person would be strong enough to throw an 11 year old through that table.

IE that Frank may have above average strength, or athlete level strength stats.

When you look on Youtube, often tables half the width of that take two strikes with a sledgehammer to break.

#47 Posted by AllStarSuperman (20011 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman said:

@silent_bomber: That table breaking hit is intense, but I don't see what you mean, IMO, it doesn't compare to the explosion throw, but then again theres a couple years difference.

What I mean, is that I'm not sure an "average" person would be strong enough to throw an 11 year old through that table.

IE that Frank may have above average strength, or athlete level strength stats.

When you look on Youtube, often tables half the width of that take two strikes with a sledgehammer to break.

ahhh! I gotcha! so he could also be a tad superstrong.

#48 Edited by Wardemon32 (4080 posts) - - Show Bio

You guys just have to understand that even though she can dodge bullets(which was HUGE CIS because there is no way you can dodge a bullets thats 2 feet to your face whiel movign that slow which indicates that bullet was moving slow) it doesn't mean she can dodge multiple bullets coming her way.

I can dodge one dodgeball but down that mean I can dodge 3?

This may not pertain to this battle much but this is just for future reference.

#49 Edited by silent_bomber (1510 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman said:

@silent_bomber said:

@allstarsuperman said:

@silent_bomber: That table breaking hit is intense, but I don't see what you mean, IMO, it doesn't compare to the explosion throw, but then again theres a couple years difference.

What I mean, is that I'm not sure an "average" person would be strong enough to throw an 11 year old through that table.

IE that Frank may have above average strength, or athlete level strength stats.

When you look on Youtube, often tables half the width of that take two strikes with a sledgehammer to break.

ahhh! I gotcha! so he could also be a tad superstrong.

I just think there are indications that he might not be as unremarkable as people like to make out.

I think worst case scenario he at least has some martial arts knowledge, and above average strength. Best case scenario he has respectable martial arts knowledge, and way above average strength and reactions IMO.

Problem is that the movie doesn't really give out much solid info on the character at all.

EDIT: Just noticed GIF request

This is durability whilst maxed out on Adrenaline, (not what she is normally like)

#50 Posted by AllStarSuperman (20011 posts) - - Show Bio