TTBA's Ultimate Team of Character He's Never Actually Used That Much or Ever
Ultimate Doctor Octopus (3)
Ultimate Green Goblin (4)
Ultimate Hawkeye (2)
Nightcrawler (2)
Archangel (1)
Rules
Everyone is in character, and team work is a factor.
Death or KO matches. No BFR.
Standard Gear is just that, Standard. Anything they used more than twice, and have access to currently is standard. Vehicles are limited to Bikes, or Horses.
All characters are current. Unless a current character is Overpowered or Depowered from their norm. Example, Hellverine was Overpowered, and Cornellverine is Depowered. So we stick to average Wolverine.
Psychics and Soul Manipulators will play a role, but can only dominate mentally one person at a time. They can also affect a whole group as well with mental illusions, or mental pains. They cannot however mind rape a group, or mentally/soul KO anyone.
Teledismemberment is not allowed. No reality warping or time manipulation. Cannot Summon anything larger than a building.
Characters over Hypersonic are limited to Hypersonic. Most of these characters are arguable of being Hypersonic plus by some feats, and not by others. So just hypersonic (Mach 5) is the ruling.
Every Team will have access to Wiki info on opponents.
Two Weeks till votes.
Battle Field
Top Team starts far right, Bottom Team starts far left.
@thetruebarryallen: You havent responded and so I am going to leave a character intro here. I thought I had changed out one of the characters XD. But anyway:
Intro
Following is a short description of my characters.
Characters
Vash The Stampede
Vash Is the gun tot'n, Donut lovin superhuman with a 60 Billion double dollar bounty on his head. Vash works his way around a trashed world, where everyone has a gun, and everyone is pissed, the streets filled with criminals and low lifes. Vash goes through this world, trying to find closure to his past. Vash is one of the best shots in fiction, he can make shots with a pistol that trained soldiers would make with a scoped rifle. and can fire off multiple accurate shots in the middle of combat.
His speed is insane, as well as his reflexes, Vash is a casual bullet timer, and has blitzed and outsped some of the fastest characters in his universe. Vash's other stats aren't anything to play with, he has the durability to take hits from the gung ho guns and more, and has the strength to lift heavy objects and do push ups with one finger.
On top of all this, Vash has other things he can pull out for versatility, which We will get more into later.
Gallery
Shootblitz' and impersonator.
Zuko
Zuko , son of the fire lord, is a fire bender from the Avatar the Last Air bender universe. In this universe, the 4 elements can be controlled. Zuko specializes in fire bending, which is the control of fire, and he can create and control it easily. Zuko's other stats are also pretty good he is faster than a normal human and stronger too, his stats center around peak human. Besides all this, he also has the benefits of being a talented martial artist and a more than capable sword fighter.
General Grievous
General Grievous, he who puts fear in the hearts of the heros of the Star Wars universe. Used by the Trade Federation as the commander of the droid army, he is both a great military commander as well as a powerful combatant himself. He can take on large groups on his own, and has killed many jedi. Grevious was trained in the art of lightsaber combat by Count Dooku, who was equaled/Surpassed(*) by only Yoda and Mace Windu in dueling, With his sabers the General was highly skilled and quick, he was said to seem to attack randomly, however, he really pay great attention to each strike, intentionally throwing his opponents off guard. He was made of the best tech of his galaxy, enchaining his strength, speed, and every other stat, far beyond the levels of a human, with his stats he is able to keep up with and win agaisnt jedi.
Gallery
an example of the hits he can take with ease.
Conclusion
I feel my team is very powerful. They have the speed and power to do alot of damage. I tried to trim this down as I do not know how long your opening will be.
I decided to be very general and foward with power levels, and didnt use many scans as this is an opening and I feel that should be saved for the next post.
Hey - sorry for the delay - it's the final 2 weeks of my Sophomore Year in College & the studying for finals has begun.
I've been blessed with some free time - so with that - let's begin a wonderful debate.
Meet the Team
Gallery
Archangel - 616 Version
One of the original members of the X-Men; Archangel is the result of a strange mutation & corruption at the hands of the wicked mutant known as Apocalypse. Archangel once had normal feathered wings - but after being transformed by Apocalypse into one of his Four Horsemen - Death - Archangel's skin turned blue & he gained razor sharp techno-organic wings that he could use to slice through enemies or fire his bullet like feathers at foes.
Archangel is a skilled combatant in H2H & fencing - he is also one of the top aerial combatants in the Marvel Universe. His techno-organic wings are incredibly powerful & have sliced clear through incredibly durable foes - and his razor sharp feathers can be fired individually or in groups like bullets. He can also fly at speeds of Mach 1.
Doctor Octopus - Ultimate Version
A dastardly villain of Peter Parker on Earth 1610; Doctor Otto Octavius was a spy against Oscorp who had been disguising himself as Norman Osborne's Lab Assistant. During the lab accident that turned Norman Osborne into the Ultimate Green Goblin, Otto was changed as well - now being able to communicate with his large mechanical arms via telepathy - he then modified these arms to perform different tasks in battle. Much deadlier than his 616 counterpart - and much more impressive - Doctor Octopus is a villain you don't want to encounter in a location with any iron around you.
Unlike his 616 counterpark, Ultimate Doctor Octopus is a user of Ferrokinesis - allowing him to manipulate metals that are mixed with Iron. He has created mechanical arms with this ability & even generated an entire storm of metal in a battle against Spider-Man & Spider-Woman. He is a scientific genius & can integrate a variety of weapons into his tentacles while on the go.
Green Goblin - Ultimate Version
Much more dangerous and twice the crazy - Norman Osborne is the Ultimate Green Goblin. A corrupt industrialist & scientist, Norman Osborne was attempting to perfect a Super Soldier drug for S.H.I.E.L.D. that he dubbed "Oz". In a bizarre lab accident Osborne was transformed into a grotesque monster - the Green Goblin - who would torment Spiderman & S.H.I.E.L.D. for many battles to come.
As the Ultimate Green Goblin, Osborne has incredible durability & strength - being able to fall off of skyscrapers with little to no damage suffered. He also possesses an incredible leaping ability & fire projection - it appears he can even absorb flame as he absorbed the Human Torches powers. He is ruthless, a monster, and the powerhouse of my team.
Hawkeye - Ultimate Version
Clint Barton is a master marksman - not just with arrows - but with everything. Under the codename of Hawkeye - Barton works as a member of S.H.I.E.L.D.'s Elite Black Ops forces. In the Ultimate Universe Barton laughs in the face of danger & every encounter with an enemy is just another round at the shooting ranger - be it peak humans or super strong meta's - Barton always loves a challenge.
Unlike his 616 counterpart - Hawkeye has some sort of meta human abilities in his eyes - thus granting him near perfect marksmanship. He is a master with all weapons & can use anything as a projectile.
The Battle
Now that you've gotten a short introduction of my team - I'll explain why I know they'll be victorious in this situation.
1. Numbers
I've got a number's advantage over your team - sure it's only 4 vs 3 - but it's always nice to have that extra character to help out in a battle.
You may have noticed that the OP states that I have Nightcrawler on my team - due to a confusion in the main thread I am currently unaware if he is still on my team or not - as I was told that Ult.Doctor Octopus was raised in Point Value thus causing me to drop Nightcrawler - if this isn't the case then I can edit him in.
So we've got a lovely 4 vs 3 here - in my favor - but number's alone won't win a fight - I suppose some physicals factor in as well.
2. Mobility
This one's pretty vital - my team is MUCH more mobile than your's is - which will allow my team to navigate the map & coordinate attacks with greater ease than your team could hope for.
Archangel has flight & can carry someone like Hawkeye across the map with him - and Green Goblin's leaping will allow him to transverse the field in record time.
I know Grievous is quick - but can Vash & Zuko keep up?
3. Damage Output
This one's big - my team is filled with Heavy Hitters - not saying your team isn't. I just believe I have more firepower
1. Green Goblin's Fire Projection can easily bring down military vehicles with force fields designed to protect them from such attacks.
2. Archangel's wing's can cleave through incredibly durable foes - softer targets such as Vash & Zuko will be no problem.
3. Hawkeye can target all the vital areas with ease - launching an explosive arrow into the Central Cavity of Grievous is gonna hurt his squishy organ parts!
4. Doctor Octopus is going to be controlling all the Iron on the playing field - get ready for a Metal Storm!!!
The Battle
You're probably getting sick & tired of me talking about why I think I'll win - so I'll outline how I see the battle is going to go.
Archangel grabs Ultimate Hawkeye & the two of them take to the skies - searching for your team.
Ultimate Doctor Octopus begins to surround himself in all the metal he can find & control - making a field around himself that acts as both defense & offense depending on the situation at hand.
Ultimate Green Goblin waits with Doctor Octopus - they won't be attacking anyone until they notice Archangel circling your team in the skies - thus signaling where they are for Doctor Octopus & Green Goblin to aid in the battle.
Vash & Ultimate Hawkeye are pretty equal when it comes to marksmanship & skill - thankfully Archangel will be there to give Ultimate Hawkeye the extra boost he needs to put Vash down for the count.
Ultimate Hawkeye will begin firing his arrows at Vash while Archangel circles around him in the air - still holding Ultimate Hawkeye.
Archangel will let Hawkeye down & will then take to the skies again - attacking Vash with his razor sharp feathers from every angle.
Ultimate Green Goblin leaps towards Zuko - whose flame attacks do nothing to the massive hulking beast, seeing as he absorb Ultimate Human Torches ultra hot attacks - Zuko won't stand a chance & is promptly torn to bits.
Ultimate Doctor Octopus uses all the metal in the area to attack Grievous from all directions - Grievous should be able to react but it'll distract him from attacking the rest of my team.
Once Vash is put down by Hawkeye & Archangel they'll take to the skies again & begin assaulting Grievous from above.
Once GG is done with Zuko he'll start blasting flames at Grievous - who is outmatched at this point - thus resulting in a team TTBA victory.
I'm still looking for some feats for some of my characters so I can display them here - I have tons of Doc Ock & GG currently - but will wait to post feats until after you respond.
I look forward to a lovely battle - and I can't wait to see what you're going to counter with :)
Wow, I lost my post, Looks like I am going to have to start over.
Intro
In this post I will respond to your points and bring up my own
Battle
Numbers
What you say is true you do have a numbers advantage.
From what you said it seems fair you ditch Nightcrawler.
And, accounting for that, the numbers advantage is not as big as it seems. I think the power of my characters can make up for this.
Mobility
You mention flying as an advantage. That's interesting
Gallery
Vash flies too
You say Green's leaping will be an advantage, I see it as a disadvantage that you would use it. Putting him up in the air like that, with no control just leaping, is making him an open , easy target. It is also separating him from the team
I am surprised that you think the General is the fastest here and the others may not keep up.
But I guess that is because most people I see have heard of his speed
Well, as for Vash I do not think he will have to much of an issue keeping pace
Gallery
Using this, he escapes from an omnidirectional attack
He survives encounters like this
Gallery
Here he deals with multiple armed men, manages to dodge every bullet. ( bloods fake, as you can see)
He Keeps up with people that can do this
You have said General Grevious can keep up , so I wont go into him for now, but I will If I must.
As for Zuko he is no slouch either
He is able to run up walls
(The Fire Bending masters ATLA, cant find the video yet)
He keeps up with Aang, who is a consistent arrow catcher at the very least. And Zuko can perform similar feats I will get into later.
Zuko also dodges fire, earth and other attacks on a consistent basis.
He has also outrun a lightning attack
I have a few more things I want to show as well, but Ill be putting them in the next post
However, I think my team is fast enough to keep up compeltely , the only long distance speed you have is
a. something I can replicate
b. something that puts your character in danger.
It seems both your long distance travel plans but you in danger, and are not precise movements, my team is more than capable of securing a positional advantage and have much more controlled methods of moving.
Damage Output
1. Green Goblin does have nice damage output
2. Neither of those people are soft targets, Zuko has taken attacks from earthbenders including barrages of rock.
Vashes durability is even greater
Gallery
Battered and bruised he still does special push ups, as well a doctor said he should have died, and yet he isn't dead.
3. That is all well and good, but Vash has speed, and an explosive arrow will not hit anyone here, everyone on my team could stop it, hitting Greivious would not work when he has options to stop it and the reactions nd skill to do so, and the durability to tank it.
4. A metal storm doesn't sound fun. However, I am pretty sure that the doc is weak to bright lights, so the huge fires around the area should be causing him problems. If he tries to do something like this , I have ,many attacks to put him down with.
As for my own output
Vash has bullets that have damaged lost technology and other options I will get into in the next post where I shall be showing his other options that will be able to put a hurt on even the green goblin.
Grevious is self explanatory , his lightsaber skill is amazing, he was taught by Dooku, and posses far past super human strength, the power he can unleash with the light-sabers, and possessing the skill to use them, he will be able to kill many of the people on your team.
Zuko is pretty self explanatory, besides his martial skill, he has , well, fire =).
So yeah, I have some nice amounts of damage I can do, and I have more that I am saving for the next post as It relates to what I will say there.
Archangel grabs Ultimate Hawkeye & the two of them take to the skies - searching for your team.
Putting them selves in danger from the long range attacks my team has.
Ultimate Doctor Octopus begins to surround himself in all the metal he can find & control - making a field around himself that acts as both defense & offense depending on the situation at hand.
So you are saying you are going to do this while hanging back?
Could you show me Doc ock using this ability defensively, because I would like to know what it looks like
Ultimate Green Goblin waits with Doctor Octopus - they won't be attacking anyone until they notice Archangel circling your team in the skies - thus signaling where they are for Doctor Octopus & Green Goblin to aid in the battle.
Ok, so AA and HE are going to be alone. I believe this means they are probably going to go down, they will not spot my team before they are spotted. Vash, Grevious and Zuko all have long range attacks to knock them out of the sky.
Vash & Ultimate Hawkeye are pretty equal when it comes to marksmanship & skill - thankfully Archangel will be there to give Ultimate Hawkeye the extra boost he needs to put Vash down for the count.
I dont see how you think so, from what you have said so far you think that you will be coming on my full team with AA and HE, Im sorry but you committing yourself to that strategy like that does not seem like a good idea. Guns, Fire, and Blasters will take them down shortly
Ultimate Hawkeye will begin firing his arrows at Vash while Archangel circles around him in the air - still holding Ultimate Hawkeye.
Vash I dont see how Vash is going to get hit by an arrow when he dodges machine gun fire and is a casual bullet timer
Archangel will let Hawkeye down & will then take to the skies again - attacking Vash with his razor sharp feathers from every angle.
Actually, I think he will be on the floor, but regardless. Vash has experience blocking omnidirectional attacks.
or
He blocks them with his own wings
Using his shield he has been able to stop many different attacks.
Ultimate Green Goblin leaps towards Zuko - whose flame attacks do nothing to the massive hulking beast, seeing as he absorb Ultimate Human Torches ultra hot attacks - Zuko won't stand a chance & is promptly torn to bits.
Possible Reaction
Zuko dodges. Vash shoots, Grevious Decapitates
Ultimate Doctor Octopus uses all the metal in the area to attack Grievous from all directions - Grievous should be able to react but it'll distract him from attacking the rest of my team.
By react, Do you mean let Ock get put down? If Grevious reacts to such an attack he could attack Ock, or have someone else handle him,
Once Vash is put down by Hawkeye & Archangel they'll take to the skies again & begin assaulting Grievous from above.
Neither of them have any way to do that. Vash can stop the attacks they have, but they cannot stop the attacks he has.
Once GG is done with Zuko he'll start blasting flames at
He wont be done with him , zuko is fast enough to dodge for enough time for GG to get focused down.
Grievous - who is outmatched at this point - thus resulting in a team TTBA victory.
See everything else.
I have more to add, but I;m going to put this up increase you want to respond tonight, if not ill edit the post , if you do, ill add more in the next post.
Conclusion
I have addressed many of your points but I still have some feats to show, and some points to make, however this was getting long so I'm posting this and well go from here.
And dont go crazy with the scans its not a HUGE deal, I only use them when really needed, mostly included alot of Vash scans because It seemed you might not know him too well.
@cdiddyman911: @easternwind: I know voting was supposed to start today as it was given 2 weeks to debate.
I actually had a post that was all nice & was going to post it but my computer updated itself & shut down when I went to the bathroom, thus I lost all of it.
If you'd like to start voting off of what we have here - I understand - I just wish I could give easternwind the response his deserves & allow him to create a finishing post to that.
Is there a way that we can extend this match a day or two? Please?
Sorry - I should've responded quicker but it's the last 2 weeks of College [ currently the last week of classes ] and I've got 6 tests to study for and an incredibly long lab report to finish up by Friday so I've been crazy busy.
@cdiddyman911: @easternwind: I know voting was supposed to start today as it was given 2 weeks to debate.
I actually had a post that was all nice & was going to post it but my computer updated itself & shut down when I went to the bathroom, thus I lost all of it.
If you'd like to start voting off of what we have here - I understand - I just wish I could give easternwind the response his deserves & allow him to create a finishing post to that.
Is there a way that we can extend this match a day or two? Please?
Sorry - I should've responded quicker but it's the last 2 weeks of College [ currently the last week of classes ] and I've got 6 tests to study for and an incredibly long lab report to finish up by Friday so I've been crazy busy.
- TTBA
Aww lets see what happens, I had some really good stuff for grevious, that sucks your stuff got deleted.
Since no one offically ended it yet do you just want to continue til we can see if we can get an extension?
I was looking forward to debating with Grevious, and I even stayed up and made gifs for him.
I mean I guess not posting lets me save the best my team has for the next match, It all depends on when he is going to end them
Let me know what you plan on doing, if anything I will leave a concluding post.
One thing I dont want to do though is base the voting off here, and wind up losing because of it with such an in shambles debate, as I havent really been able to really expand on or demonstrate anything.
So yeah , if you would like to make this a short one, you could try to post a rebutal and closing post tonight.
If you do this PLEASE tell c, that I have my closing post ready, I just dont want to close it and overload you, that wouldn't be fair, so respond if you can.
@cdiddyman911: @easternwind: I know voting was supposed to start today as it was given 2 weeks to debate.
I actually had a post that was all nice & was going to post it but my computer updated itself & shut down when I went to the bathroom, thus I lost all of it.
If you'd like to start voting off of what we have here - I understand - I just wish I could give easternwind the response his deserves & allow him to create a finishing post to that.
Is there a way that we can extend this match a day or two? Please?
Sorry - I should've responded quicker but it's the last 2 weeks of College [ currently the last week of classes ] and I've got 6 tests to study for and an incredibly long lab report to finish up by Friday so I've been crazy busy.
- TTBA
Aww lets see what happens, I had some really good stuff for grevious, that sucks your stuff got deleted.
Since no one offically ended it yet do you just want to continue til we can see if we can get an extension?
I was looking forward to debating with Grevious, and I even stayed up and made gifs for him.
I mean I guess not posting lets me save the best my team has for the next match, It all depends on when he is going to end them
Let me know what you plan on doing, if anything I will leave a concluding post.
One thing I dont want to do though is base the voting off here, and wind up losing because of it with such an in shambles debate, as I havent really been able to really expand on or demonstrate anything.
So yeah , if you would like to make this a short one, you could try to post a rebutal and closing post tonight.
If you do this PLEASE tell c, that I have my closing post ready, I just dont want to close it and overload you, that wouldn't be fair, so respond if you can.
@easternwind: Sorry it's taken me so long - I had Archangel scans & then my computer flubbed & I lost them all so I had to go and reacquire them all.
TTBA's Battle Post 002
So it seems at this point that we've accepted the match ups - that Archangel & Ult.Hawkeye will have no trouble doing the scouting & then informing the rest of my team the location of your team.
Unless you actually think that your team is going to spot AA & UH while they fly high up above the clouds where you won't actually be able to see them - plus Grievous would be useless at such a long range & AA's wings are easily able to block gunfire & normal fire. It's not like they're moving slowly either - nor would the other two members of my team just sit back if they saw your team shooting up at the sky towards UH & AA.
Doc Ock can control metal from miles away - so he wouldn't even have to see anyone on your team for him to actually begin his attack.
It isn't like either of us split our teams up to form complex strategies of sabotage & stealth - it's pretty much a head on confrontation.
In this post I will give my reasoning as to why my team can & should win each and every one of these match-ups.
The Match-ups
Archangel & Ultimate Hawkeye vs Vash
Ultimate Green Goblin vs Zuko
Ultimate Doc Ock vs General Grievous
Archangel & Ultimate Hawkeye vs Vash
Alright - this is one of the more interesting fights, but I think Archangel & Ultimate Hawkeye are gonna take it with ease.
For starters - it's a 2 v 1 - automatically within my favor given the fact that Ultimate Hawkeye is comparable to Vash in terms of accuracy feats, I've seen several debaters on this site say so and while I'm not an expert on Vash from what I've seen he doesn't have anything that'll put him leagues ahead of Ultimate Hawkeye.
How fast is Vash in terms of flight? Archangel is sitting comfortable around the Mach 1 - 1.5 range for speed.
Anywho - I suppose I should show how protective his Techno-Organic wings are.
Gallery
Scan 1 - Shields himself & Psylocke [ whom he's carrying ] from an explosion that made direct impact w/his wings.
Scan 2 - Shielding himself from automatic gunfire at close quarters range.
So from what you've given me with Vash's damage output - Archangel should have no problem defending himself & Ultimate Hawkeye during the duration of this aerial battle.
Since I've covered the defensive aspects of AA & UH - it's time to go into how they'll put Vash down.
First off - AA has paralyzing neurotoxins that line all of his feathers; it should also be noted that AA's feathers are RAZOR sharp & he can fire them while in mid-flight.
Gallery
Scans (1 & 2) - Wolverine instructs AA to fire his feathers at the guards to KO them via neurotoxin. This is just showing that AA does indeed have paralyzing neurotoxins that line his feathers.
Scans (3 & 4) - AA fires his feathers at a soldier and they easily tear through him like a shotgun blast. Considering all AA needs to do is hit Vash w/1 feather in order to paralyze him & bring him down from flight - aim shouldn't be a problem and they should be sharp enough to pierce his skin.
It should be noted that AA can fire his feathers while flying just fine - it's not like he has to stop & stand still while he does it - so while AA is firing at Vash, Ultimate Hawkeye will be targeting him with his bow & deadly arrows.
Gallery
Scan (1) - Fires 3 arrows at incredibly rapid speeds, all of which are kill shots. This is mostly to show that Ultimate Hawkeye has a pretty rapid rate of fire and always goes for the kill.
Scans (2 & 3) - The infamous 'fingernail' kills. Yes, he just killed average human begins with only his fingernails. If he can turn those into lethal projectiles than arming him with a bow & granting him the maneuverability w/AA just makes him a killing machine.
Scans (4 & 5) - Targets & hits Ghost Rider w/an RPG from an incredibly large distance. Like he states - he never misses, even with an incredibly inaccurate weapon like an RPG ;)
Scans (6 & 7 & 8) - Explaining that his sight is much better than a normal humans. He also see's through the two way mirror and breaks it with a pen.
Scans (9 - 13) - Goes against 3 Omega Level Mutants. He uses non-conventional projectiles such as shards of glass combined with his traditional bow and arrow load-out. He scores kill shots on all of them.
Scans (14 - 20) - Tags Ultimate Peter Parker who is incredibly quick & had a Spider Sense like his 616 counterpart. A good feat for anyone who uses projectiles as their main assault.
So we've already got AA who will be trying to paralyze/maim Vash w/razor feathers & we're adding to that UH who has uncanny aim and doesn't care if he kills someone.
Personally - Vash seems outmatched in this situation. It would be more likely that he could gain a majority of victories if he was just going against AA or just UH - but the two of them combined would be too much for him. Especially given the skill level that they both have compared to fodder w/guns.
Once they're finished w/Vash they'll go to help Doc Ock bring down Grievous.
Ultimate Green Goblin vs Zuko
This one is the easiest fight - Zuko's attacks do nothing to Ultimate Green Goblin due to his own fire projection abilities.
Gallery
Scans (1 - 4) - Ultimate GG vs Ultimate Human Torch; you'll notice that GG just absorbs all of Human Torches attacks. HT is on a level above Zuko when it comes to flame/energy projection and I think we can agree on that. GG just ate it all up to the point where it KO-ed HT because he couldn't take it anymore.
So with this we should both be able to come to the conclusion that fire vs GG isn't going to do anything.
Now you mentioned that his leaping will make him slow & an easy target - I'm here to prove you wrong on that aspect.
Gallery
Scans (1 - 9) - Ultimate GG vs Ultimate Peter Parker. Ultimate GG's leaping allows him to move at speeds that are too quick for Spiderman's Spider Sense to protect him from & he can easily grab & toss Spiderman while in mid air. He's quick, can lay down some serious punishment, and leaps great distances. He isn't just some sort of easy target for your team to tag.
Scans (10 - 11) - Ultimate GG leaps from the bottom of the ocean into the air where he combats two helicopters w/plasma shielding using his own flame projection - it breaks through the shields and downs the choppers.
Scans (12 - 13) - Ultimate GG leaps from the ground onto the SHIELD helicarrier while it was in the air. Massive distances man, massive distances.
So since Zuko can't do anything to Ultimate GG and Ultimate GG has him outmatched on every aspect it's a landslide victory for Goblin.
He'll then go aid Doc Ock w/Grievous
Doctor Octopus vs General Grievous
This is the toughest fight - mostly because Grievous is the heaviest hitter on your team.
I have faith; however, that Ultimate Doc Ock will be able to use his powers to either distract Grievous long enough for the rest of my team to come making it a 4 v 1 or actually damage Grievous & put him down for the count by himself.
One problem I see for Grievous is that he's a cyborg himself and because of such many of his components are made of metal.
Doctor Octopus controls metal - so I don't see why he couldn't tear him apart & turn him into a shrapnel storm.
If you somehow prove me wrong on that front - I'll post a backup.
See - Doctor Octopus can control metal to a great degree. Of course he has his tentacles but he can also control the surrounding metal around him and considering he was able to control his tentacles from MILES away he could use all the metal within a miles radius to combat Grievous.
Gallery
Scans (1 - 3) - Doc Ock controls his arms from miles away to combat some folks & then release him from prison.
Scans (4 - 14) - Doc Ock combats both Spiderman & Spider Woman - and while he loses the fight overall he creates a huge storm of metal around himself.
So since Grievous is made of metal & has no force abilities I don't see him touching anyone on my team before Doc Ock messes with him & tears him apart.
Since Ock has such a wide radius he could also disarm Vash of his weaponry - leaving him projectileless against UH & AA.
My team has more versatility, durability, and damage output - along with numbers. You've got a great team - but I've got the perfect counter for your strongest member and it'll be a very steep uphill battle for you from this point on.
RECAP
UH & AA scout ahead in the skies
Team joins UH & AA once they give away the location of your team
UH & AA stay in the skies while they combat Vash w/Arrow & Razor Feathers.
Doc Ock uses his control over metal to disarm Vash.
Doc Ock uses his control over metal to make a giant metal storm - also tears apart Grievous unless you can prove why he wouldn't be able to.
Zuko has no defenses against GG - Fire is also useless against GG.
GG tears Zuko apart, limb from limb.
Vash is brought down due to having no weapon against UH & AA.
@easternwind: Sorry it's taken me so long - I had Archangel scans & then my computer flubbed & I lost them all so I had to go and reacquire them all.
No Problem, of course, things happen
So it seems at this point that we've accepted the match ups - that Archangel & Ult.Hawkeye will have no trouble doing the scouting & then informing the rest of my team the location of your team.
I never accept match ups =). The same stuff we debate is what will happen on the field , and as they learn, both our teams can switch around if they come to an impasse.
But more directly.
I already said they will not do that. They will just separate themselves, and get shot out of the sky.
However there are some things I do disagree with.
It isn't like either of us split our teams up to form complex strategies of sabotage & stealth - it's pretty much a head on confrontation.
Well, you did split your team.
The Match-ups
Archangel & Ultimate Hawkeye vs Vash
Ultimate Green Goblin vs Zuko
Ultimate Doc Ock vs General Grievous
From what I see, you seem to be right that GG would be able to kill Zuko and Zuko has no means to end him. On the other hand, Zuko can keep up with Hawkeye, Arcangel, and Ock. So, as you said you will be sending 2 first. So any damage that happens there will occur first. If and when GG shows up to attack Zuko, Zuko will dodge, and switch with either Vash who Grevious who both have the means to kill GG. Because GG probably the biggest threat.
Archangel & Ultimate Hawkeye vs Vash
Alright - this is one of the more interesting fights, but I think Archangel & Ultimate Hawkeye are gonna take it with ease.
For starters - it's a 2 v 1 - automatically within my favor given the fact that Ultimate Hawkeye is comparable to Vash in terms of accuracy feats, I've seen several debaters on this site say so and while I'm not an expert on Vash from what I've seen he doesn't have anything that'll put him leagues ahead of Ultimate Hawkeye.
Vash and Hawkeye both have some pretty impressive accuracy feats I dont know much of Ultimate Hawkeye though, I would say shot for shot they are decently close,
Vash has shot things miles away, he has shot strings, miles away, shot fuses off dynamite,he is able to use it to his advantage, shooting armor off people, shooting things to fall on people . And much more.
For now I will tentatively accept that hawkeye can match that, though I reserve the right to take that back.
However, Vash combines his combat speed with his shooting in a unique style that I think gives him the edge.
Let me introduce you to Knives Blades:
They are very thin the way the "strings" are drawn there in some of the scans is for effect
Described as " a "only a few microns thick"
His blades can tear apart buildings, and building sized space ships in an instant. He does this by firing large amounts of them at extremely high speeds.
But how does Vash handle these things?
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He shoots them and destroys them.
These things are moving as fast if not faster than AA, and Vash shoots tons of them.
he does something similar against another superhuman, Legato, with his "Unimolecular nano steel threads"
I also think that Vash will be better able to dodge the projectiles shot his way in this fight.
His speed, and especially his reaction speed is quite impressive.
He is able to knock bullets off course just enough to stop the death of some people in a quick draw tournament, using rocks.
When faced with attacks from 27 different angles targeting him at once, he is able to easily deal with it.
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Faced with multiple puppets with machine guns sneak attacking him he is able to dodge them
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His enemies also show off his speed:
He is able to keep up with Knives, who can blitz and entire building before they react.
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And his lower level Bad guys arent unimpressive either, able to deflect bullets with swords, as shown before
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Knives attacking a space station from earth
I have a few more, which I will probably get into in the next post but I think this shows how speed will be a huge factor for Vash taking them down.
How fast is Vash in terms of flight? Archangel is sitting comfortable around the Mach 1 - 1.5 range for speed.
Not sure, we can can go into that next time, Fast enough to Tag Knives, who is insanely fast.
Anywho - I suppose I should show how protective his Techno-Organic wings are.
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Scan 1 - Shields himself & Psylocke [ whom he's carrying ] from an explosion that made direct impact w/his wings.
Scan 2 - Shielding himself from automatic gunfire at close quarters range.
So from what you've given me with Vash's damage output - Archangel should have no problem defending himself & Ultimate Hawkeye during the duration of this aerial battle.
Vash has special bullets which he charges with power.
These bullets have shot through Knives Angel arm.
Knives angel arm has withstood starship fire
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And other types of Huge attacks
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Its bullet proof , etc.
Also withstood an attack equal to multiple high class warheads.
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Described as the hottest temperature in the universe, though could be hyperbole.
So Vash has the damage output to tear through those defenses.
As I think I mentioned before , he can shoot apart knives micron blades as well as Legatos, which have torn apart buildings and space ships.
Even his regular bullets hit with the force to knock back a fist that weighs as much as a car.
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Since I've covered the defensive aspects of AA & UH - it's time to go into how they'll put Vash down.
This firepower should be more than enough to quickly take out AA and UH given Vash's accuracy, and the speed AA and UU have, and the power he has.
I have cut out the examples, to eliminate clutter.
And I am just going to be making a single minded counter here.
I do not see Vash getting hit with those.
I have already shown Vash shooting a greater volume of projectiles than that. And Vash deals with that kind of attack every time he faces knives, and each time he dodges or destroys each of knives blades.
But he can also block and deflect attacks.
Theres 2 ways he does this sort of thing.
First is a sort of shield
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First we see it protect Vash from an attack in the span of an instant ( point blank) (1 and 2) Then We see him use it to protect Wolfwood.
But he can also use it in a faster and more agile and open way, here you see him block and stop every bullet from the tripunisher ( keep in mind the regular punisher can destroy buildings )
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Scan (1) - Fires 3 arrows at incredibly rapid speeds, all of which are kill shots. This is mostly to show that Ultimate Hawkeye has a pretty rapid rate of fire and always goes for the kill.
I think I have shown that Vash can outfire Hawkeye, with more shots, and he has hit hundreds to thousands of micron thick strings in an instant. In fact Vash has a record with strings, shooting them off legato, and other occasions as well.
Scans (2 & 3) - The infamous 'fingernail' kills. Yes, he just killed average human begins with only his fingernails. If he can turn those into lethal projectiles than arming him with a bow & granting him the maneuverability w/AA just makes him a killing machine.
Thats pretty impressive, Vash has taken bullets off course, not even knocked the bullets off course, but just moved them enough to RE AIM the bullets, and hit a different spot. I dont want to put the video in this section like this but I can show you if you want. He also has the destructive output I mentioned, And is quite fast himself. As I have shown and will go more into later.
Scans (14 - 20) - Tags Ultimate Peter Parker who is incredibly quick & had a Spider Sense like his 616 counterpart. A good feat for anyone who uses projectiles as their main assault.
Vash has tagged knives, who I is faster than ultimate Parker. And He tagged that guy I posted a scan of cutting machine gun fire with his sword.
Almost every opponent Vash faces has enhanced speed.
I just responded to the scans I had something to say about right now, The rest were just your showings for your character and I don't see an issue right now.
So we've already got AA who will be trying to paralyze/maim Vash w/razor feathers & we're adding to that UH who has uncanny aim and doesn't care if he kills someone.
And we have Vash who has shown extreme competence at dodging large volume attacks and not getting hit, while also having speed, and attacks of his own, his uncanny aim, and his uses of it in combat, his experience with multiple enemies and even experience with shooters who have multiple highly superhuman stats.
Personally - Vash seems outmatched in this situation. It would be more likely that he could gain a majority of victories if he was just going against AA or just UH - but the two of them combined would be too much for him. Especially given the skill level that they both have compared to fodder w/guns.
Vash is not outmatched, he can do what they can do and kill them. He could definitely take the majority over either of them, and hopefully this post showed it, and even together. Vash has not just fought fodder with guns, he has fought people who tear a part space ships in seconds, and can control entire populations psychically, while having a gunfight.
You have said you are sending them ahead of everyone else. I have shown how Vash can shoot them out of the air. And he is not alone, where you are sending these two alone away from the rest of your team. Vash is on the ground, and can hide, where they are flying in the air like giant targets for everyone to shoot at.
Vash also has strings he can attack with
He is able to blitz the very fast Legato, basically destroying all the nerves in his body, so on top of gun attacks I also have this to work with
So In conclusion I think that Vash will be able to take out UH and AA due to superior fire power, speed, and damage, which will shoot them out of the air, Vash will then be able to fire his super powerful blasts at GG and Ock
Ultimate Green Goblin vs Zuko
This one is the easiest fight - Zuko's attacks do nothing to Ultimate Green Goblin due to his own fire projection abilities.
Well, yeah Zuko knows who he is, and he sees a giant green Monster in front of him he is not going to just sit there and die.
So with this we should both be able to come to the conclusion that fire vs GG isn't going to do anything.
I think I can agree with that for now.
Now you mentioned that his leaping will make him slow & an easy target - I'm here to prove you wrong on that aspect.
Ok, that's fair, he isn't a very slow target, he is still out in the open, but I can accept that point, And I am sure you would have brought up his speed regardless. And I will look over the scans again and address anything in the next post, where we will probably talk about GG.
So since Zuko can't do anything to Ultimate GG and Ultimate GG has him outmatched on every aspect it's a landslide victory for Goblin.
Which is exactly why the second GG shows his face, Vash and Grievous who are more than fast enough to react, will and will have to be the ones to kill Big Green.
Zuko could hold his own with pretty much any other opponent.
So putting him up against Green like this and throwing him out of the match is a stupid move that my team would never make.
Zuko can be very useful to the rest of the team
Doctor Octopus vs General Grievous
This is the toughest fight - mostly because Grievous is the heaviest hitter on your team.
I have faith; however, that Ultimate Doc Ock will be able to use his powers to either distract Grievous long enough for the rest of my team to come making it a 4 v 1 or actually damage Grievous & put him down for the count by himself.
One problem I see for Grievous is that he's a cyborg himself and because of such many of his components are made of metal.
Doctor Octopus controls metal - so I don't see why he couldn't tear him apart & turn him into a shrapnel storm.
If you somehow prove me wrong on that front - I'll post a backup.
I dont see him being able to control Grievous when even Jedi have trouble. He is insanely dense and durable. More on this later in the post.
Scans (4 - 14) - Doc Ock combats both Spiderman & Spider Woman - and while he loses the fight overall he creates a huge storm of metal around himself.
He seems to be able to control a decent amount of metal. But I dont see him controlling anything on Grievous level, Who will also be controlling himself, unlike the metal Ock controls.
I think Grievous would be able to defeat Ock, He can blitz him with amazing speed, fire with amazing strength, has enhanced intelligence and other properties as well
"Grievous was well trained in the Jedi arts. Mace could recognize the hand of Dooku in the general's training and technique. His strikes were as forceful as any Mace had ever had to counter, and his speed was astonishing."
That is Mace Windu, the person who stood up to the strongest sith of all time, ( though THIS line was before that ), speaking there.
His advanced strength allows him to crush skulls and rip apart dura steel.
And his speed is shown many times.
"A concealed compartment in the general's right thigh sprang open, and a mechanical arm delivered a slim hold-out blaster to his hand. He brought it up and fired so fast that his arm blurred to invisiblity."
"Grievous moved so swiftly that he seemed to teleport from the window to half a meter in front of Gunray."
"Grievous stayed right with him, attacking before Obi-Wan could even realize exactly what was happening, attacking faster than thought—"
He also has advanced intelligence.
"Before Obi-Wan had left Coruscant, Mace Windu had told him of facing Grievous in single combat atop a mag-lev train during the general's daring raid to capture Palpatine. Mace had told him how the computers slaved to Grievous's brain had apparently analyzed even Mace's unconventionally lethal Vaapad and had been able to respond in kind after a single exchange."
"Successful at analyzing Mace's lightsaber style, those same computers suggested that Grievous alter his stance and posture, along with the angle of his parries, ripostes, and thrusts. The result wasn't Vaapad, but it was close enough, and Mace wasn't interested in prolonging the contest any longer than necessary."
So since Grievous is made of metal & has no force abilities I don't see him touching anyone on my team before Doc Ock messes with him & tears him apart.
Ock will not be able to control grievous, Grievous has been able to take on multiple opponents who have better TK feats than Doc Ock, He is also insanely durable
"The ceramic armorplast plates protecting limbs and torso and face can stop a burst from a starfighter's laser cannon."
Since Ock has such a wide radius he could also disarm Vash of his weaponry - leaving him projectileless against UH & AA.
If he attacks Vash Grievous can behead him. If he attacks Grievous, then he will be shot by Vash. Because you don't have the numbers advantage if you split your people up into groups of two like you did.
Just one powerful shot should be enough to take down ock, but Vash could use his regular bullets to, which I have shown are not just regular, any of these would take Vash a blink to do, and sets the advantage for the rest of the fight.
My team has more versatility, durability, and damage output - along with numbers. You've got a great team - but I've got the perfect counter for your strongest member and it'll be a very steep uphill battle for you from this point on.
About versatility , The main thing I see you having in that way, would be the metal control, which I do not think would work. Grievous is much more dense, heavy and strong than anything he has controlled, and has a will of his own, and will be controlling himself. And also, Jedi, some more powerful than Ock, have trouble manipulating Grev. The added element of Grievous unpredictableness, speed, and intelligence, will allow him to stop the control attempt with violence. And my whole team will know it is important to take him out.
I also have side abilities as well. The rest of what Ock can do , Grievous can likely do as well, Grievous also has the intense speed and strength I have shown, as well as his "randomness" ( actually calculated chaos) and his analytically brain.
Everything else I can do something like it, like with AA and UH, Vash can do everything they can do, except faster in combat. There are even extras I can bring up for Versatility for Vash, Such as the strings I have shown.
As for durability , Zuko has lowish durability, but he has been slammed by Explosions, and Slammed with giant rocks, From what I know, Ult. Doc Ock and Hawkeye both have around the same durability as Zuko, from what I know.
Archangel has some good durability , especially in his wings, But Vash can match that with his "wings" Which have blocked similar things, Except they move extremely fast, and can even catch large amounts of attacks at once. His own body is not lacking either, having taken Block to City level attacks.
Honestly I believe Vash fires stronger attacks, at a much faster rate given he has hit hundreds of strings, and out performs their shield with speed
Grievous probably has the most durability on my team. He can match up about with Ultimate GG, His best durability feats are Tanking blows from a lightsaber , and being able to take shots from a Starship Laser cannon.
You have more numbers wise, but I would say that durability is comparable. Though I feel my highest durability characters, Vash and Grievous, are also fast enough to not really get hit. They also both have means to defend themselves, Vash has his Plant powers that I have shown, and Grievous has his lightsabers, 4 of them, which can be used for similar things, He has feats with them on level with top tier Jedi, even without the force.
On the Subject of Power Output. I think I actually could have the edge, however, I dont like to claim things straight out, as you did, So I will provide ideas, and Voters can decide.
I am definitely not outclassed. As I have shown, Vash using just his guns, can, with normal bullets, make a Giant multi ton fist, stop in its tracks. He has also used his more powerful Gun attacks to shoot through Knives arm and blades, His Arm, I have shown, Can take hits from Spaceship cannons, other large cannons, and other things. His blades can tear through buildings, space ships, metal columns ( as shown before ).
He can also shoot tons of these bullets at once, able to destroy a bunch of them as they destroy the entire area around him, The large amount of them, along with their speed, given the small size, is what allows him to tear stuff to pieces, however, Vash can shoot these out of the air at quick speeds, without being hit once ( as shown before). These combined with the power to destroy an arm that tanked High level spaceship damage( which I will go into detail on, as the heat level from the blast was insane) should be enough to give him huge worth.
General Grievous is another large force. He has lightsaber, which everyone knows, have insane levels of cutting power. He is also very fast , moving faster than some Jedi can see, and can fire off dozens of attacks in the time it takes for someone to make one.
He also has a large amount of force behind these hits. Grievous gets this from the large power he has.
He is so skilled, he was able to even be a challenge for Dooku, a duelist with some of the best, almost THE best, skill in Star Wars. Dooku is not only skill and no ability, he is also very strong, fast , agile and skilled in the force.
"There had been moments during the extensive combat sessions when even Dooku had been hard-pressed to outduel the cyborg. But then, Dooku had kept some secrets to himself. Just in case."
This shows he is powerful, as Dooku was able to stand up to Anakin Skywalker, Obiwan Kenobi and Yoda.
He also has strength/attack power put behind the blows
"Grievous braced himself against a control console, its dura-steel housing buckling under his grip. "This is my answer!"
He ripped the console wholly into the air, right out from under the hands of the astonished Neimoidian operator, raised it over his head, and hurled it at the Jedi. They split, rolling out of the console's way as it crashed to the deck, spitting smoke and sparks."
^ Completely breaks a Durasteel console.
"A surviving Neimoidian pilot was screaming orders for the droids to magnetize, then started howling that the ship was breaking up, and managed to make so much annoying noise that Grievous smashed his skull out of simple irritation."
^ Smashing heads, ouch.
This shows that the General can deal out some serious damage.
Vash and Grevious are especially fast, both in traverse, combat and reaction speed.
They also both have advanced brains, and showings using the brains, such as analyzing combat for Grev, and Breaking out of illusions and figuring out how puppets work, for Vash ( As I have shown, at least the Breaking illusion, I will add scans if need be.)
These things should allow me to utilize my Power output in a great way, and able to do fast bursts of power, as well as longer attacks.
RECAP Response
Yours:
UH & AA scout ahead in the skies
Team joins UH & AA once they give away the location of your team
UH & AA stay in the skies while they combat Vash w/Arrow & Razor Feathers.
Doc Ock uses his control over metal to disarm Vash.
Doc Ock uses his control over metal to make a giant metal storm - also tears apart Grievous unless you can prove why he wouldn't be able to.
Zuko has no defenses against GG - Fire is also useless against GG.
GG tears Zuko apart, limb from limb.
Vash is brought down due to having no weapon against UH & AA.
Team TTBA wins.
Okay
No they don't, because I take down AA and UH
No they don't, because Vash wouldn't be hit by it, considering the attacks he has dodged.
And Gets Beheaded by Grievous or Burned by Zuko ( in fact, doesn't he have an issue with bright lights??)
And he gets Killed by Vash, but he wouldn't be able to do it anyone, given that multiple jedi couldn't do it, and his armor can resist starfire cannon fire.
Ok for now
No The other two can help, while Zuko can handle anyone here who isn't Green Goblin.
I think I have quite shown why this is wrong.
Good Luck.
Zuko
Since I didnt talk on him much, I will do that here.
Zuko will be able to help, he can last against almost anyone but the Goblin, and so when needed he can switch opponents with someone, or help them out, or even creating a distraction.
You splinting your team up could benefit Zuko, allowing him to fight less at once, and help them try to knock the scouts out of the air, and hold off any lesser opponents, while Vash and or Grev, handle the Goblin.
With all other enemies, he could handle them on his own for a bit, or could even be argued to take some on, and can also assist with attacks and distractions throughout.
As for the Goblin, Zuko should be able to deal with the fire, or play keep away from the Goblin for a short time, but will need help to take him down, and it isnt like he is stalemating GG in combat either so he will not waste his time, and instead make himself helpful taking down UH,GG,AA or at least hurting them or distracting them at the very least.
Agility
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Here he jumps up a building, blocks arrows, catches arrows, blocks giant rocks with his Sword.
Strength and Durability
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Tanks multiple hard hits, breaks chains apart with no weapon easily.
Firebending
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Here he sends people flying backwards, destroys Rock with his fire, and also uses it to protect himself.
As I said all of this allows Zuko to at least hold his own, with anyone who isnt GG.
In Conclusion
Vash has more than enough firepower to take down AA and UH, but I also have Grievous and Zuko there as well, and the ability to hide.
Grievous will not be torn apart by Ock and instead, will kill him.
Zuko will help with each of these fights, as well as take over while the others take down GG.
The reasons for the above, given throughout the post.
Im going to edit my post to look a bit better tomorrow but for now I am going to sleep
Edit: was not able to do that exactly, but anyway, let me know before the time is up, because I have a concluding post ready to go, if barry doesnt respond, but I dont want to put it there now and not give him a chance.
If anything, It is in order, as my response would go last, I started this off with the intro, but you had the first strategy post, and we went from there. But it would be good to make final posts since it isnt exactly capped off.
TTBA ftw. He was able to prove his team got what it takes to put the other team down, specially by using 2 characters from his team that shouldn't have much problem dealing with Zuko and Grievous. It was a bad match up for easterwind since the beginning. Good battle anyways, it was fun to read. Congratz. Keep up the good work gentlemen.
@cdiddyman911: @easternwind: @thetruebarryallen: Alright it was a pretty good read, felt like I learned some new things about Ult Hawkeye. He has some pretty high showings and seems very skilled. I wasn't totally in love with Barry's plan, but the match ups clearly favor his team. Grievous & Zuko are dead meat. TTBA wins. Seems Barry once again picked wisely and spent his points well.
@easternwind: You did a fantastic job & I don't think voting is over yet - so don't count yourself out until it's over.
I once was in a debate against a guy who was beating me 5 to 1 and then 4 people came in and voted for me and tied it all up - the match was quite the nail biter.
Your team was pretty cool and setup well but being matched up against my team was unfortunate for them - but honestly you did a great job in my opinion & I hope to see you in more debates during my time here on CV.
@easternwind: Hey you did very well sure I voted for truebarry but I was impressed with your debating skills and fyi I have become a fan of yours and I look forward to your next debates mon ami. You deserve a follow
@easternwind: You did a fantastic job & I don't think voting is over yet - so don't count yourself out until it's over.
I once was in a debate against a guy who was beating me 5 to 1 and then 4 people came in and voted for me and tied it all up - the match was quite the nail biter.
Your team was pretty cool and setup well but being matched up against my team was unfortunate for them - but honestly you did a great job in my opinion & I hope to see you in more debates during my time here on CV.
Oh I wasnt counting myself Out, I would like to get as many votes as I can, Just seemed from the comments that the Grievous thing was an issue, and I wish I could have detailed it more, though I believe I showed him well, if condensed. Ill edit that out now since I mentioned it here.
Yeah, the team matchup was interesting.
I could see my team winning it though, twas a fun debate.
I actually had a lot more to say about all the matchups, the power of Grev and Vash ,and much more about the matchup's in general, as I felt the way you had them was not perfectly agreeable, But I think I need to plan more ahead in these, as we were sadly not able to complete the match in a time suitable to us., and so we were not able to continue posting and expanding.
Great debate all around, Ill be here watching the votes.
@oceanmaster21 Thanks, I am not upset or anything, thank you for the comment.
@thetruebarryallen: It's actually a good thing NC is no longer on your team. Your team is very ruthless. NC is a nice guy & very religious and isn't going to approve of the rest of his team killing people.
@thetruebarryallen get's my vote, although it was a close match. @easternwind started off very strong, and was pretty consistent through out the entire debate. TTBA took his edge in his second post. I think he laid out his advantages and how his team would use them very clearly. It was very easy to see how his team would win. I do have to say EW did this well too, but I think TTBA did this slightly better.
Thanks for the great read guys! It was a close one!
@thetruebarryallen: It's actually a good thing NC is no longer on your team. Your team is very ruthless. NC is a nice guy & very religious and isn't going to approve of the rest of his team killing people.
I realized that after he got removed from my team - the silver lining is always important!
@thetruebarryallen get's my vote, although it was a close match. @easternwind started off very strong, and was pretty consistent through out the entire debate. TTBA took his edge in his second post. I think he laid out his advantages and how his team would use them very clearly. It was very easy to see how his team would win. I do have to say EW did this well too, but I think TTBA did this slightly better.
Thanks for the great read guys! It was a close one!
@easternwind: you debated good but TBA was just more convincing with his argument but you did great and your team was pretty beast I am a huge fan of General Grievous
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