High Tier TRNY: PrecrisisBardock VS SirFizzWhizz(VOTE)

Characters

• Goku (5)
• Vegeta (4)

Perks

• Morals off (8)
• 2 hours prep wherever you want (5)
• Magneto helmet (3)

Characters

Gallery

• Robot (2)
• Ultimate Reed (The Maker) (5)
• Spawn Second Age (5)

Perks

• Basic Knowledge (Just Powers & Gear) (4)
• Hour of Prep On the Battlefield (1)
• Get 2 Character Store Points (5)

Goku (孫 悟空, Son Gokū), born Kakarot (カカロット, Kakarotto), is the main protagonist of the Dragon Ball metaseries created by Akira Toriyama. He is the adoptive grandson of Grandpa Gohan, the son of Bardock and Gine, the husband of Chi-Chi, the father of Gohan andGoten, the grandfather of Pan, and later the great-great-grandfather of Goku Jr. Cheerful, courageous and also a bit naive, Goku is aSaiyan originally sent to Earth as an infant with the mission to destroy it. However, an accident alters his memory, causing him to grow up pure-hearted and later become Earth's greatest defender, as well as the informal leader of the Z Fighters. Throughout his life, he trains hard and strives to be the greatest warrior possible, while at the same time using his amazing strength and skills to uphold peace.

Vegeta (ベジータ), or Prince Vegeta, is the prince of the fallenSaiyan race and arch-rival to Goku. He is the eldest son of King Vegeta, the older brother of Tarble, the husband of Bulma, the father of Trunks and Bulla, and the great-great grandfather of Vegeta Jr. Alongside Goku, Gohan, and Piccolo, he is easily one of the most prominent characters in the series, receiving more character development after being introduced than a number of other characters.

Regal, egotistical and full of pride, Vegeta was once a ruthless, cold-blooded warrior and outright killer,[6] but later abandons his role in theplanet trade, instead opting to remain and live on Earth, fighting alongside the Z Fighters; all the while striving to become the universe's most powerful warrior, specifically with the mission to defeat and surpass Goku in power.[7] His character evolves from villain, to anti-hero to protagonist through the course of the series.

- Dragon Ball Wiki

• Ki control/manipulation (Can use Ki to heal others, fire destructive energy blasts, etc.)
• Ki Sense (Can sense the location of any living being by sensing it's life force)
• TP/TK Resistance (Their Strength and Saiyan Genes allows them to resist TP/TK)
• Telekinesis
• Minor Telepathy
• Super Physicals
• Transformations (The main one I'll be focusing on is Super Saiyan 4, which yields a 4,000x physical/power multiplier by base stats.)
• Fusion Dance
• Martial Arts Mastery
• Strategic Fighters
• Instant Transmission (Goku only)

Ultimate Reed Richards is the hero and villain of the 1610 Universe in Marvel. He is consider by many now after his role in Secrete Wars to be one of the smartest versions of reed Richards known. Starting off as a kid happy to preform experiments, love Sue, and doing the right thing. He quickly started to see life as a never ending cycle of good and evil, and decided to try and force everything into his view of harmony. Originally turning villain to save the Ultimate Universe from the likes of Dr. Doom and 616 Galactus, he fell into the side of villainy in the way he goes about to save everything. While good intentions at heart, he does things in the most efficient, and sometimes cold heart ways possible. He is also over 1000 years old, and surpass his own Marvel Zombie, and possibly 616 versions of himself in accomplishments and intelligence.

Spawn, Hells most powerful soldier, and Humanities greatest champion. Al Simmons was the greatest assassin in the Image comics world. What is more impressive he was all human, with no meta powers. He used his skill, weapons, and tactics to take out the most powerful Cyborgs, and Meta Humans in Image. However he was betrayed and kill, which in turn sent him straight to Hell who wanted to recruit him. This is the typical story of Simmons, however it does not end there. When resurrected, the Man of Miracles (Image's version of the OAA/Presence) put into this Spawn the souls of 6000 people who all died around the same time Spawn had. With this act the MoM ensured Spawn would be able to resist the control of Hell, and match in power the most powerful Hell Kings and Celestial Angels in the Image Universe. MoM further enhanced Spawn with power of the Earth itself, granting Spawn world level Empathy with all living creatures, sensing darkness/evil anywhere, and minor control of Earth's natural forces. The last gift MoM gave to Spawn before Armageddon was the access and knowledge of Spawns own personal Hell Spawn Army called the Legion. With all this Spawn was able to keep putting Hell in its place, as well saving the earth from God and Satan.

Just to get a quick Idea of the difference of power of Normal Spawn to Hell King, here is a long but accurate power scale kind of.

Normal Spawn

Spawn has world level empathy and power of the planet thanks to the gifts from the Green World.

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Then we have spawn without Hell King powers able to create Black Holes.

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As well Freeze Time and read the thoughts of every living thing on Earth at the same time.

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All this power is non Hell King Spawn. AKA weaker Spawn.

Then we cannot forget the ultimate weapon in the universe, the suit K-7 Leetha itself.

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3 Separate quotes of his K7-Leetha suit, the one Simmons had before his death, becoming the most powerful weapon in the Universe by Violator and Malbolgia.

Normal Spawn alone is able to match the Dark God Urizen.

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Urizen is a huge God of Darkness.

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Urizen is proven to surpass the Hell kings or Seraphim of both Heaven and Hell as one of the children of MoM. He is the "lifeless, deathless, dreamless, souless" causing God of darkness. Able to drain worlds of souls entirely, and wreck the planets while existing in and out of reality in a fashion.

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Yet Spawn with out Hell king Powers matched this God.

Without Hell King powers Spawn also manage to easily best Mamon, the strongest of the Hell Kings.

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Robot, the super genius who deals with science and tech, and currently rules the world after killing most of the other supers in it. He thinks faster than a super scomputer, and is able to multitask multiple suits of him self across the planet at the same time. His own knowledge in warfare, and science extend in the 100s of years when living in a alternate dimension of super tech beings known as Flaxans. the Flaxans themselves were a race that invaded several dimensions and enslaved worlds through their tech. Robot ends up taking the empire over, running, it, and in turn figuring out their tech for better suits that he made, suits that in time are able to match Invincible himself to some degree.

Rex can open up doors anywhere, and even extends to universes.

Like wise Reed is able to do the same with his mastery of n Zone tech that he develop.

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City was able to build a fully functioning Godzilla size Iron Man in seconds this way.

You have these guys called Dynomos which are Spider man level at best, however they are numerous, and erect Energy Shields, as well can analyze foes for weaknesses.

You then have these super suit characters called Knives. They are roughly around Ultimate Iron man level, and more than a few can take Thor.

Then you have the Swords, which are more like mini mini Hulks. All around fire power to drop Helicarriers, and tank Iroman's and super suit Thor's better blows. If I were to judge how many of these beings make up Reeds army, I think a small force sent to deal with the Externals be a good number, there was roughly couple thousand of them. So most being Dynomos, and Knives seems right, with the occasional Sword.

Reed in turn will also summon his body guard, First Knife.

First Knife is every bit superior to super suit Thor, showing speed to blitz, something both Ultimate Quicksilver and Hyperion failed to do to Thor. He shown to dodge lightning which surprise Thor. Also shown blades that can cut insanely tough super human durability like nothing. In short he is a perfect gourd dog.

Robot has currently built and produce around 50 suits that can nearly match Invincible.

Best part is he can with his technopathy manipulate and multitask with all these suits around the world and in space at the same time. Meanwhile Robot is operatting on one of the suits on the field already, though it be hard to tell which one he is in with all these suits running around, and all the lifeforms that be around.

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Legion is what makes Spawn so powerful to begin with. When Spawn died, he was imbued with the souls of 6,000 other people that died at that moment. Each of these souls granted knowledge and added power to Spawn. What makes them so special is toward the end of the series run, Spawn had learn to call upon these souls to fight for him.

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He shown 4 separate times to call upon his Hellspawn to kick a$$ for him. That is 6,000 Hellspawn, or Classic Spawn for those unaware of the difference, along with Spawn to end a foe. While only mid tier in power, they are still hard to kill, and pretty deadly in Necro power.

Now intros out of the way, what is this team going to do together? Well Spawn is not doing much of anything, however both Robot and Reed are. Robot has a large manufacturing base in space. Reed has the City. Both are products and outfitted with tech far far far beyond 616 or New 52 earth tech, and far beyond more then DBZ tech lol.

Oh wait? How do I access these areas during my prep on the battlefield? Did I mention both characters are massive users of Teleporters that transcend Universes? My bad, they are.

DBZ Tech is a plot device essentially, no use mentioning it.

Rex can open up doors anywhere, and even extends to universes.

Umm... that would mean he'd still have to leave the arena. Goku has a teleportation technique but that doesn't give him a free pass to go anywhere he wants, your prep is only for the battlefield.

Like wise Reed is able to do the same with his mastery of n Zone tech that he develop.

Seems to me like he'll have to go get something from another universe... which means he'll be leaving the battlefield... this is more debatable than Robot's thing, so I'll let it slide, but Robot is literally leaving the battlefield to go somewhere else.

In short both my characters have no need to leave the battlefield, and can get whatever they need for a fight. Now thanks to my teams basic knowledge, your already at a lost. My team will know of your moon busting energy blasts, your insane super speeds, and strength. All I needed to know to combat you. Reed will use his hour to initiate the Invincible protocol.

They know about the potency of my abilities how?

Basic Knowledge (Just Powers & Gear) 4

So you're knowledge will consist of you knowing that I can manipulate Ki (They don't know what that is), One can use Instant Transmission, and has superhuman stats.

Full Wiki Knowledge 8

Maybe if you had this perk, you could claim to know about the potency of my abilities, having basic knowledge won't detail those aspects.

Since I cannot use time manipulation, the City will have to build everything for me itself out of itself. This includes The Hard Light Helmet.

Hardlight helmet requires a strong power source to make hard light constructs of whatever Reed can think off. It was powerful enough to take on Ultimate Namor, one of the strongest beings on Ultimate marvel Earth, and that required only a couple power plants.

The Hardlight helmet is neat, but it does have it's downsides. IIRC Reed's subconscious can mess with his thoughts and make it produce random ass things. Having two randoms as teammates wouldn't help out with that. Not to mention my man can move faster than you can think.

For his helmet he will just power it with a star he will have City steal in his prep. Take no longer than a push of a button. He done this before to power up devices.

That's cool. (Even though I'm pretty sure he'd have to be in his city to push the button.)

You have these guys called Dynomos which are Spider man level at best, however they are numerous, and erect Energy Shields, as well can analyze foes for weaknesses.

You then have these super suit characters called Knives. They are roughly around Ultimate Iron man level, and more than a few can take Thor.

Then you have the Swords, which are more like mini mini Hulks. All around fire power to drop Helicarriers, and tank Iroman's and super suit Thor's better blows. If I were to judge how many of these beings make up Reeds army, I think a small force sent to deal with the Externals be a good number, there was roughly couple thousand of them. So most being Dynomos, and Knives seems right, with the occasional Sword.

So most being laughable fodder, and a lot of slightly more powerful laughable fodder, then several of them being the bee's knees, but still laughable fodder.

IIRC they don't build moon sized Helicarriers. You can have millions of each and it's not going to make a difference, none of them are going to be able to react to an attack, much less survive it.

Reed in turn will also summon his body guard, First Knife.

First Knife is every bit superior to super suit Thor, showing speed to blitz, something both Ultimate Quicksilver and Hyperion failed to do to Thor. He shown to dodge lightning which surprise Thor. Also shown blades that can cut insanely tough super human durability like nothing. In short he is a perfect gourd dog.

This breaks the tournament rules:

No single summon can beat New 52 Wonder Woman.

Pretty sure anyone who could stomp Ultimate Thor w/ Super Suit like that will Kill Diana with utter ease.

Then we have Robots armies.

Robot has currently built and produce around 50 suits that can nearly match Invincible.

Best part is he can with his technopathy manipulate and multitask with all these suits around the world and in space at the same time. Meanwhile Robot is operatting on one of the suits on the field already, though it be hard to tell which one he is in with all these suits running around, and all the lifeforms that be around.

So he has about a hundred suits fighting at the same time.... okay.

From what I gathered about invincible, he's stated to be around 200x light speed in travel speed and has no FTL combat speed feats. Reminds me of superman.

So these bots won't be able to react to my attack either. From what I'm seeing their durability isn't high enough to tank it either.

Finally spawn will summon Legion. What is Legion you ask?

Legion is what makes Spawn so powerful to begin with. When Spawn died, he was imbued with the souls of 6,000 other people that died at that moment. Each of these souls granted knowledge and added power to Spawn. What makes them so special is toward the end of the series run, Spawn had learn to call upon these souls to fight for him.

He shown 4 separate times to call upon his Hellspawn to kick a$$ for him. That is 6,000 Hellspawn, or Classic Spawn for those unaware of the difference, along with Spawn to end a foe. While only mid tier in power, they are still hard to kill, and pretty deadly in Necro power.

So 6,000 mid tiers. Going by your statement they'll have mid tier stats. So they aren't going to be able to react to an attack either, nor have the durability to tank it.

So now you see the big issue, you have a army of these beings to deal with now. Now I have all this, Prep is done. I can do more with prep, but in this battle none of it is needed.

You should've gone all out....

So your one being, thats pretty meh on feats anyway lol

A being comprised of two people that have an entire series full of feats...

compared to a Army of super beings, some as fast as yours

Slow your roll, nobody you mentioned is faster.

and 3 characters with a host of versatile abilities I have yet to use on you.

A host of abilities that they aren't going to have a chance to even use...

You want to start with a speed blitz, good luck, your not know who to target first with all this on the field.

Simple Solution: Target them all.

Add to that I am confident the Robots will react fine to your characters speed, they react fine to blitzing Invincible who is faster by feats.

Lol. You're going to have to elaborate on this one. Goku was confirmed MFTL in Freeza Saga, I can't find any combat feats of Invincible fighting FTL.

Meanwhile you have a host of Hellspawns, and Spawn himself who can teleport blitz you as well, and I have not touch on the other things that come into play here.

Hellspawns are laughable fodder in this situation. They're not going to be able to react at all. Spawn will be lucky if he notices Gogeta before he's down. You should touch on those other things if you want to stand a chance.

Kami's space ship could reach Jupiter in seconds, yet took 32 days to reach Namek

- Goku's ship only took 6 days to reach Namek

- King Kai could find Goku's ship in space and figure out the location and speed of Vegeta and Nappa's ships

- King Kai couldn't see Goku and Frieza fighting

To put this in perspective, it takes light 35 - 43 minutes to reach Earth from Jupiter.

So Kami's ship is around 1,00 times FTL, and Goku's ship is around 5 times faster than Kami's ship. King Kai could track Goku's ship, and even talk to him and warn him about dangerous anomalies. But he couldn't track Freeza and Goku's fight. Keep in mind this is VERY early on in the series and he is exponentially faster now.

Goku has also blasted Coola to a Star in a matter of seconds, he also did the same thing to Broly.

Even Raditz managed to dodge a Light of Death that Should be FTL. (Piccolo's regular blast managed to reach the moon in 3-4 seconds, roughly 40% light speed. Light of Death is considered to be one of his fastest attacks, so it should be 2-3x faster.)

Was also stated to be FTL in Namek Saga.

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From left to right is the general progression of destructive capacity up to the Buu Saga. Raditz leevel beings being casual moonbust, to Prince/King Vegeta being little effort (Multi)planetbust. To Freeza being super casual planetbust. To Cell bein Solar Sytembust (Don't call it hyperbole, in Coolers Revenge it was stated that Cooler was starbust, Cell is leagues above cooler.). Then the Supreme Kais (who were casually beaten down by Buu without taking a scratch) were a thousand times as powerful as a casual planetbuster.

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Now SSJ2 Gohan overpowered Cell's Solar System busting Kamehameha with his one armed Kamehameha, and SSJ2 Goku is stronger than SSJ2 Gohan was at that time. Yet his SSJ3 form (which is four times stronger than his SSJ2 form), had a hard time fazing Fat Buu. (Who is <<<<< Buuhan.)

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Fat Buu even copied SSJ3 Goku's Kamehameha after it failed to work on him. Contrary to the popular belief that Kid Buu's vanishing ball is only 10x planetbust, (A dub error.). Fat Buu, who may I remind you is very weaker than Buuhan, is casual multi-Solar System level at a bare minimum.

That's all Fat Buu, Fat Buu compared to Super Buuhan is Thor compared to Odin, that's how big the power gap is. Now take the fact that Goku's Kamehameha (Multi-solar level at a minimum), hardly fazed Buu, yet Mystic Gohan's punches did faze a stronger version of Buu (Super Buu), and Mystic Gohan is a small compared to an XL when compared to Super Buuhan.

Just giving an idea of a minimum to Super Buuhan's punching/Energy destructive capacity.

A quote from a debate that I was repping Super Buuhan in. SSJ Vegito outright stomped Super Buuhan, and Elder Kai said Baby Vegeta was the most powerful thing he had ever felt, making Baby Vegeta > SSJ Vegito >> Super Buuhan.

And SSJ4 Goku >> Baby Vegeta.

And SSJ4 Goku + SSJ4 Vegeta <<<<<<<<<<<<< Omega Shenron <<<< SSJ4 Gogeta (the guy you're battling).

Simple. Gogeta has never gone all out (or even close to it) but snce I have the Morals Off perk, he'll do what it takes to win.

That means a Big Bang Kamehameha.

Reference above, SSJ3 Goku's Kamehameha would be Multi-Solar Busting. SSJ4 Goku's 10x Kamehameha failed to even faze Syn Shenron (A weaker version of Omega Shenron). A Big Bang Kamehameha almost killed Omega Shenron (While Gogeta was playing around, I might add).

Nobody on your team has anywhere near the durability to take one of these.

At the start of battle, Gogeta will teleport above and behind your team. As I mentioned before, he has Picosecond + Reaction times on a lowball, dwarfing your teams speeds. So your army of 20,000 people have their backs turned to this guy, and he vaporizes them to oblivion. A nice, swift, way to go.

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while Invincible could bust them up with exchanging of blows, the fact remains they can tank more than a few of his best blows.

Even his far weaker suit, well before his upgrade tanked blows from the Monster Girl;s child who possessed her strength. Monster girl is a Viltrumite level being.

Here is a great feat of Robot tanking blows from several Evil Invincible Reanimen. Reanimen are humans made into 30 toner super humans with durability to tank a few of Marks blows. Thats pretty massive gap from human to Reanimen. Now these Reanimen are actually the dead Evil Invincible that invaded earth and died, turn into more super human Reanimen versions! See where this is going? While Robot stated he could not win that fight, he still match them for a short time, and even broke the jaw of one of the beings, and dismember the head off another somehow.

And even when damaged heavily, they can still keep fighting.

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Best part is this is light speed in nature.

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As seen in the comments of both scans.

i dont like what im seeing.

Robot:
As long as he isn't leaving the battlefield as described in Sirfizzwhizz's post that sounds fine.

Basic Knowledge:

Basic Knowledge (Just Powers & Gear) 4

Is says just powers and gear( As in standard gear, would not include perk or prep gear).

He would know what powers you have and what you can do. I see Pr0 left out skills, so he wouldn't know about your martial arts and stuff. He would know how powerful you are on paper though.

SuperSuit THor:

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/ultimate-thor-vs-mcu-thor-1674310/

Sirfizzwhizz made a Supersuit Thor vs MCU Thor thread.

Words of Sirfizzwhizz:

Anyway, Super Suit Thor never busted a city either.

If SS Thor isn't even a city buster, he's far below New 52 WW.

I took a look at First Knife with my Marvel U account. As far as I can tell First Knife only has 3 appearances. I don't want to get to deep into this as I would basically have to start debating things out instead of making simple rulings. First Knife would not defeat New 52 WW based on what I have seen. I will say that sirfizzwhizz needs to be careful on how he words things as to not to confuse his opponent into thinking First Knife is faster than a Full Speed Ult Quicksilver. Cause I'm pretty sure Ult Quicksilver can go lightspeed(if his Bio is correct). And, I'm certain First Knife can do no such thing.

As far as New 52 WW power levels go, lets consider the fact people were saying she can beat Blue Marvel. So it's not as if she is some push over.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/new-52-wonder-woman-vs-blue-marvel-1556345/

What counters? You have none lol.

Whatever floats your boat I suppose.

He is not leaving the area. The Doors ope to where he is and his Robots can drop whatever off to him. Goku is inferior, dont try to compare the two ability to teleport.

Rules Bent but not broken, thats cool then.

If this is a neutral universe, then no problem. If not, then STILL NO PROBLEM! Ultimate Reed and Robot have full access to teleporting in other universes. Reed done it several times, and map most of the Marvel Multiverse. Robot visited the Flaxan Dimension and back, as well alternate invincible world.

So there is no issues here.

Well I mean if he goes to another universe he's leaving.. but okay.

Basic knowledge. I may not know your weakness, or your mind set, ect, but I know you can produce energy attacks that bust moons. I know your characters have super speed. Even non fans of DBZ know these basics lol.

Seems to be in the rules, so that's fine I suppose.

They dont need to know about Ki, only that it is energy attacks, and Teleporting is a basic power to know.

Well he would if he would attempt to make an energy absorbing device or something, but according to you he's more focused on organizing fodder.

Yes, it makes what he thinks, how is this a down side, he mastered it well in his fight against Namor, and in turn is 1000+ years older than his teen self. So point invalid there.

Not necessarily, he doesn't know these other two guys, being the inquisitive calculative Reed he'll be thinking all sorts of things, but this is irrelevant as he won't be able to react to Gogeta.

I just showed you the City doing everything for reed, as well his Children lol. He needs to push nothing lol. Cmon and pay attention to the arguments.

In the scan you posted he was pushing the buttons, it's irrelevant anyway.

Fodder that can buy time, tank or react to your attacks, capture the objective, and even kill your guy in some ways? Yes.

Lol.

Ha ha, let me show you what the Dynomos can do.

A hand full of them left at the city manage to block 90% of all America's Nuclear weapons fired at them. that is more than moon busting ability to be honest. that was just a portion of them making a force field, not even the whole group Reed had originally sent to Europe, and Asia.

Now imagine all of them making a force field over the mountain together.... your not blast through that. Mountain claimed.

Source for that to even be Moonbusting? The attacks still destroyed the fodder and 12% of the city. Gogeta could probably rip through that with TK alone, but it doesn't matter because these guys aren't going to be getting anywhere close to the mountain. Hell, they won't even have a chance to put up a shield.

While its cool you think Super Suit Thor is in New 52 Wonder Woman level, touches my heart actually, you would get laughed at on the boards. Super Suit Thor is insane weaker to New 52 WW. Deal with it.

So your perfect bodyguard is weaker than Wonder Woman? Then he'll be OHKOd like the rest. No worries.

Im curious were you get info from? 200X speed of light? As the biggest reader of Invincible where is that located? Anyway....

He was stated to be able to fly as fast as his father, who could fly 200x Light Speed in space.

Robots react to Light speed attacks, and tank bloodlusted Invincible blows.

Sorry but I don't see any lightspeed in those scans.. maybe an explanation would help? As a matter of fact I don't even see Robot dodging anything. Both Scans they are face to face exchanging blows.

while Invincible could bust them up with exchanging of blows, the fact remains they can tank more than a few of his best blows.

Even his far weaker suit, well before his upgrade tanked blows from the Monster Girl;s child who possessed her strength. Monster girl is a Viltrumite level being.

Here is a great feat of Robot tanking blows from several Evil Invincible Reanimen. Reanimen are humans made into 30 toner super humans with durability to tank a few of Marks blows. Thats pretty massive gap from human to Reanimen. Now these Reanimen are actually the dead Evil Invincible that invaded earth and died, turn into more super human Reanimen versions! See where this is going? While Robot stated he could not win that fight, he still match them for a short time, and even broke the jaw of one of the beings, and dismember the head off another somehow.

Is this supposed to be portrayed as impressive? I'm not seeing it.

"Robot can survive punches from [X]" That doesn't prove anything to anybody, Does Invincible bust planets with single punches on a regular basis or something? Maybe you should show that.

They can last long enough to what your dishing. Even react and avoid it.

I don't see how you came to this conclusion. You didn't show any quantifiable feats at all. The only quantifiable feat was Robot catching a casual Invincible punch, and you haven't shown how fast Invincible can fight.

Fact is SS4 Goku had trouble lifting a building, and his blows are small mountains at best. He is not that strong. He relies on Ki blasts more than anything. In a physical battle, I favor Robot.

So are we playing the lowball game now?

I assume Thanos is a street leveler, Batman > The Spectre in combat, and Lobo is superior to superman?

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It's PIS, it's a thing you should know about. To add to your fail at lowballing, Goku had just gotten megastomped by Omega Shenron and was nearly out of energy.

Again, you haven't shown how Robot is in anyway superior to Gogeta.

Able to one shot Doc Seismic who more than match Mark, and easily restrain monster Girl with 4 suits. I also showed how well he did against the Invincible made Reanimen above too.

In a physical brawl with 50 of these suits, Gogeta gets pummeled badly.

Lol.

Ho ho ho, so you wish to brush off the "mid tiers" eh? Your mistake. These are Hellspawn, what they lack in strength or durability, they make up for with Necroplasma hax magic.

These guys are all as powerful as the next Hell Spawn. That means Teleport Dismemberment, and massive near unlimited Regen unless you decapitate them, which your character does not know to do.

Too bad they are not getting a chance to even try to attack. I'm pretty sure if every cell in their body is vaporized they are not regenning.

Best part is this is light speed in nature.

So Spawn is capped at lightspeed and it hurts him awfully when he uses it? Not a very good setup considering who you are facing.

So yes they can potentially one shot Gogeta, as well my main man Spawn. You have no defense for this. No way to survive this.

Key word potentially. The Hard Truth is you're entire armada is going to be vaporized before they can think of doing that. Clearly Spawn and his army doesn't have anywhere near Picosecond+ Reaction speed.

Ha. You cannot even deal with my minions here much less my main guys. I see no reason to go into what my main guys can do yet. As it is I win already.

What's with the arrogance? Sad thing is even if you tried to slop up some other strategy my strategy will still trump it.

A being comprised of two people that have an entire series full of feats...

Which do not good against the versatility of my team.

So far you're versatility consists of trying to throw fodder at me lol.

Slow your roll, nobody you mentioned is faster.

Robot more than is, and his army will more than keep up. Goku is not even lightspeed base on feats. no statements, no clear feats, only bad fan logic to that testament. Glad even death Battle pointed that out on speed. Gogeta might be, but I know Robot and his army alone can keep up.

So we're ignoring that giant section of my post that proves he's MFTL very early in the series? Why am I not surprised...

A host of abilities that they aren't going to have a chance to even use...

How you figure? My team won the moment prep time was over.

Gogeta is so horrendously faster than you're entire armada it's not even funny. Need I remind you that he's going to be above and behind you all the instant the battle begins?

Simple Solution: Target them all.

Go ahead and try.

It's simple, they can control their blast radius like 98% of other Fictional characters that use energy projection.

Lol. You're going to have to elaborate on this one. Goku was confirmed MFTL in Freeza Saga, I can't find any combat feats of Invincible fighting FTL.

PROVE IT! Show me something that states or clearly shows it. I know you cant.

Did you bother reading my post before replying?

Hellspawns are laughable fodder in this situation. They're not going to be able to react at all. Spawn will be lucky if he notices Gogeta before he's down. You should touch on those other things if you want to stand a chance.

if worst comes to worst, Spawn and reed can slow the time on the battlefield, but I see no reason for that option yet. Your characters has issues crossing the planet in a fast time scale, and is not lightspeed at all, or barely lightspeed.

So it's a last ditch resort? Sadly you're getting wiped very early on.

Q: "Why do you choose to set them in worlds that aren’t really anywhere?

A: In the end, because it’s easy.

Basically with everything, I choose my criteria based on what can be easy. If I made the real world the setting, I’d have to draw looking at reference materials, for stuff like buildings and vehicles. When you do that, people complain even if it’s just a little bit off. ... A: ...Now that you mention it, once Goku and his allies learned Bukūjutsu and were able to fly, advancing the story became really easy.

Q:What do you mean?

A: Because everyone became able to just fly straight to anywhere. That’s why thinking upthe story’s development became easy, and above all the story’s progress became speedy. Even looking at it with the pictures in mind, I became able to show things from an angle looking down upon the scenery. That was also why I initially introduced Kinto-Un. Up until then, they had to bring out planes and automobiles and the like one by one, and it was really tiresome.

See? Toriyama uses traverse speed as a blatant plot point; he admits as much in his interview. Thus, it's irrelevant (and, indeed, if we were going off of travel speed, we'd be using the instance where Goku traveled across half of Namek, which is around triple the size as Earth, in an instant.)

This is your proof? Really? The tracking of one object through emptiness of space in a straight line vs two or more fighting in hand to hand in erratic patterns on a planet full of life. That is your solid proof?

Oh boy. This is easily debunk. EASILY.

Here Cecil can track Omni Man moving FTL out of the solar System. But cannot at all track Invincible and Conquest fighting at less than Speed of Light on the planet.

Actually, Goku's ship went through multiple detours and King Kai was tracking it fine, he could also track other battles that were at FTL speeds. Nonetheless you "Debunked" (lol) only 1 out of the 6 things I listed proving them as FTL very early on in the series. Therefore it's suffice to say you really didn't debunk anything.

Cell being a solar system buster is hyperbole. Proof he is? when has he done this or anyone done this? All this is bad fan theory at best. C'mon now, where is the proof? So far All I seen is planet busting. You making up numbers to justify how stronger someone is to another is lame.

Are you trying to insult my characters? "Bad Fan theory"? Making up numbers? (When did I ever mention a number?)

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.Cell Clearly stated he has enough Chi to destroy the entire Solar System. It's even said in an official DBZ handbook that Cell has enough power to do it.

Translation:

Red words: "Everything's super!! Declare this invincible Saiya-Power!!"

Black words: "Super Saiyan Grade Five (Strongest Form). An aura with sparks like flashes of lightning and an upright, combative hairstyle are the distinguishing features of this, the strongest Saiyan warrior! One's personality also becomes aggressive; even the ordinarily gentle Gohan started to enjoy battle! Its power is enough to push back even Cell's energy bullet, which had enough force to blow away the Solar System!"

Bojack was even said to have destroyed portions of galaxies before he was sealed into the center of a star for a millennia, even he got stomped by SSJ2 Gohan.

Now SSJ2 Gohan overpowered Cell's Solar System busting Kamehameha with his one armed Kamehameha, and SSJ2 Goku is stronger than SSJ2 Gohan was at that time. Yet his SSJ3 form (which is four times stronger than his SSJ2 form), had a hard time fazing Fat Buu. (Who is <<<<< Buuhan.)

Not a strength feat, thats energy.

Fat Buu even copied SSJ3 Goku's Kamehameha after it failed to work on him. Contrary to the popular belief that Kid Buu's vanishing ball is only 10x planetbust, (A dub error.). Fat Buu, who may I remind you is very weaker than Buuhan, is casual multi-Solar System level at a bare minimum.

More bad DBZ wank. Proof he can bust multi solar system? i never seen it. Planetary at best. Again not strength feat.

Energy strength feat lol (Considering I'm not even punching you). Proof he can bust Multi-Solar system? Akira Toriyama (The author of the series) said SSJ3 is 4x that of SSJ2. 1 x 4 = 4. 4 is "Multi".

I'm not wanking anyone here, all this is straight indisputable fact.

That's all Fat Buu, Fat Buu compared to Super Buuhan is Thor compared to Odin, that's how big the power gap is. Now take the fact that Goku's Kamehameha (Multi-solar level at a minimum), hardly fazed Buu, yet Mystic Gohan's punches did faze a stronger version of Buu (Super Buu), and Mystic Gohan is a small compared to an XL when compared to Super Buuhan.

Just giving an idea of a minimum to Super Buuhan's punching/Energy destructive capacity.

Really? more and more pure bias logic here. What proof and solid proof at that that the difference is Thor to Odin Thor? Where did you pull that from!?

You can't attempt to insult me when it's obvious you know very little about the franchise of the characters I'm repping.

SSJ3 Goku was fighting on equal terms with Fat Buu for the most part. Yet Super Buu was absolutely stomping him (So obviously stronger than Fat Buu) Then Mystic Gohan came along and totally megastomped Super Buu (he couldn't even land a hit.). Then Super Buu absorbed Gohan and became Super Buuhan, and Goku and Vegeta were forced to fuse into Vegito to match him (Akira Toriyama stated that fusion actually multiplies the two beings power). So basically They became millions of times stronger, Super Buuhan was even capable of collapsing the universe in seconds with his Vice Shout. So that's my solid proof of how much stronger Super Buuhan is to Fat Buu.

A quote from a debate that I was repping Super Buuhan in. SSJ Vegito outright stomped Super Buuhan, and Elder Kai said Baby Vegeta was the most powerful thing he had ever felt, making Baby Vegeta > SSJ Vegito >> Super Buuhan.

And SSJ4 Goku >> Baby Vegeta.

And SSJ4 Goku + SSJ4 Vegeta <<<<<<<<<<<<< Omega Shenron <<<< SSJ4 Gogeta (the guy you're battling).

I really dont care for fan opinion >>>>>>>>>>>>>> as proof of anything.

It's not fan opinion. Once Goku transformed into the SSJ4 he stomped Baby Vegeta. Yet he and a SSJ4 Vegeta couldn't even scratch Omega Shenron. But SSJ4 Gogeta was casually stomping him with a fraction of his power.

While your entire post on fan wanking imaginary numbers is cute, its not accurate. I will agree they are not tanking planet blasts, but they do not need to. The battle field is indestructible. My entire army of Dynomos with force fields on the mountain will likely tank what your throwing, and Spawn cannot be killed at all, regening from anything not a holy attack, or energy draining attack. He can also simply go intangible.

More passive aggressive insults? This is getting old. So you confirm they aren't tanking planet level blasts, something that fodder in DBZ can do, okay. Only the mountain is indestructible, but like 98% of other characters with energy projection they can control the blast radius of their attacks. Spawn will have every cell in his body vaporized, you cannot regen from that, he won't even have a chance to go intangible.

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All he has to do is sit on the mountain and win.

Add to this is Richards hard light helmet. When powered by several nuke plants it was able to beat down and tank Ultimate Namor fine. I have a star now like our own sun powering this device. Even if you attack, it can and will no doubt hold out against the power output your putting out.

At the start of battle, Gogeta will teleport above and behind your team. As I mentioned before, he has Picosecond + Reaction times on a lowball, dwarfing your teams speeds. So your army of 20,000 people have their backs turned to this guy, and he vaporizes them to oblivion. A nice, swift, way to go.

Your guy is not that fast by feats. Maybe lightspeed at best, but Robot still reacting and battling that. 50 of them are enough to get in your face and stay there.

Um, that whole link is feats. Gogeta is MFTL. Not to mention you have no way of knowing that I'm behind you.

• The Dynomos are holding down the fort while claiming the mountain. Knives and Swords are being thrown at your guy. First Knife will likey dodge your guys attacks and cut you up base on his feats.
• 6000 Hell Spawn are attacking anyway they can, and can tele dismember like classic Spawn shown to do. They are hard as hell to kill as well.
• The 50 Robots are MVP, matching your character in stats, and more than keeping up in speed. They will be MVP in distractions and even holding your character to be targeted by the rest.
• Reed is still chilling like a villain he is, and has a unending army of children being made in his time down where a a few seconds relate to a dozen years. More and more Children being grown. His Hardlight on top of this is making a small army to combat and beat Gogeta down powered by a star. Your not busting them.
• Spawn himself is chilling on the mountain intangible, claiming it.
• You cant bust any planet here, so your not accomplish anything from that super Kamehameha. Not that your character has time to do this with mine all over him and covering the shown battlefield. there is no BFR from the field remember? He has no breathing space to do this.

In the end, my team is pretty much winning. Killing you and holding the mountain. Either way.

• Nobody will have a chance to move.
• Nope, they aren't fast enough and I'll be above and behind your entire team at the start of the battle.
• Those Robots are massively outclassed as I've shown, you've blatantly ignored everything I've posted. My guy is still above and behind them at the start of battle.
• Reed is getting one shotted along with everyone else. Gogeta can move faster than he can think. Not to mention Reed doesn't know he's above and behind them.
• Spawn doesn't Start on the mountain, he starts at the starting point, where Gogeta will be above and behind him, and he isn't fast enough to react to my attack.
• I'm not trying to bust a planet, I'm just vaporizing your entire team. He will be above and behind your team, they have no way to detect his presence, and they don'y ave the speed to react or the durability to tank the blast of the Big Bang Kamehameha*.

Speed feats of Viltrumites in general.

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Quotes of Viltrumites able to go massively FTL. They are able to as stated do this near instant. In turn they are affected by time dilation by doing so granting the reaction and such that comes with that speed. Last scan states specifically there bodies attain these speeds near instant.

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1) A Viltrumite leaves a light trail behind him as he blitzes Allen, and reacts to his surrondings at this speed by quickly navigating Allen where he wants after targeting Allen at said speed.

2) 3 Viltrumites leaving light trails as they wreck a city, and at those speeds are actively looking for Omni Man showing reaction time at said speeds.

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Thragg easily catches the blitz attack of Oliver and ends him.

Thragg blitzes Thadeus who had no chance to react. Both Allen the Alien and Omni Man were blitzed in this, unable to stop it.

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Thragg manages to move faster than both Invincible could run away, and reacted faster than Omni Man bull rush attack. Omni Man who already has insane speeds could not stop in time.

Then here we see Thragg and Battle Beast move faster across the planet than Space Rider could hope to intercept. Space Rider who matches Omni man speed.

Invincible and his Father travel around the world so fast, that his father in a second was able to see, assess, and find the problem in the middle east, and fetch Mark, bring him there before the Hot Dog falls.

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Omni Man blitzing the Guardians. Notice Red Rush who is so fast that he can save people, fight villains across the city of Moscow, and hold a conversation with his girlfriend who NEVER SAW HIM MOVING AT ALL! Red rush has proven Combat speeds and reaction speed. Omni Man casually blitz him and the rest, showing insane combat speed.

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Omni Man with a few punches, and throws keeps up casually with his son as they battle from Chicago, into the ocean, and then into the Artic all in a few panels. Great combat and reaction speed on Omni Man's part to keep track and catch up to attack again.

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Omni Man blitzes a foe after having to actively find them at high speeds flying around the world. Insane reaction time that goes hand in hand with his speed.

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Omni Man fights the Supreme who also shows light speed and faster combat/reaction time. Omni Man keeps up easy and they battle across the country side in a few panels of this fight. Omni man has many feats of light speed attacks, reaction, and massively FTL speeds while navigating where he is going at such speeds.

Invincible's speed feats.

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Invincible and Omni Man playing baseball by throwing it at high speeds around the world, and Invincible forgets about it, remembers, and catches it even though it is tiny and traveling at insane speeds to get around the world.

Mark moves so fast to travel from the Mall to his House to get a stack of comics. Why is this good? He moved so fast, it seem he never moved at all. He had to navigate his way out of the Mall, through the house, find his stack of comics, make it to the mall while navigating the inside of the mall all in a split second. To move at that speed and around a complex environment is reaction time.

Mark in a few panels packs up all his things and moves them into a new room across the city. Showing more reaction and navigational ability at speeds so fast, that his friend held a conversation with him on the phone.

Invincible speed blitzes Reanimen in a curving arc, actively targeting them all in a speed blitz. Reaction time.

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Mark moves so fast, that he is able to switch clothes with his evil Doppler, and shave his head in the time it takes another Viltrumite to walk through a door. Showing speed and the ability to think at those speeds.

Mark clearly states when he holds back, he is slower. This is why slower people are not blitzed, because as stated Invincible holds back, which makes him slower.

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In his fight with Conquest, we see Mark and the Viltumite throw punches and fight faster than world sattilite network could follow, each being seven minuets behind. Instant telpeortation stated by Cecil was no good cause they moved to fast to be there. The only time the duo was seen was when Mak stopped moving for a bit as Oliver stated in scan 4 here.

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More of Conquest and Mark moving at speeds far faster than Kid Omni Man could take a breath of air. Battling from earth surface to space and back again all the while throwing punches.

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Mark here tries to out fly his faster evil self. Yet at these speeds the evil self can react and was actively seen and targeted by another evil self who blitzed him, even though they were flying at full speeds! Excellent reaction time.

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Mark is being held back by the strength of the Sequids, untill he stops holding back, and easily speed blitzes the guys head off.

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Mark beating on Dinosaurus, and curves his bull rush to drag the foe where he wants, more reaction feats with his bull rush speeds.

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Mark and Omni man travel from one planet in another Solar System to the capital planet in the same time a few hour battle took place. They not only arrive but blitz the other Viltrumites upon arrival, meaning they located their targets that are human size shape on a single city built planet at their high speeds.

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Invincible here along with other Viltrumites not only keep pace with a laser to Lightspeed hit a planet, but they react to each other like Omni Man grabbing Mark so they are matched up. And the two smiling at eachother. After hitting the planet and still flying at those speeds, other Viltrumites react to them and attack them while they are still moving at that speed and the planet still blowing up. All showings of the ability to react, think, and make a combat move at light speeds!

As for feats, I posted everything. You have no argument. This is some scans of Invincible Durability.

Sub atomic level.

Example of the Smart Atoms at work.

Mark at his weakest incarnation was able to tank Dimension exploding energies that ashed a army very powerful Mauler Twins.

Able to tank the focus power of a city busting beam with little problem or any damage after the blast.

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Mark hit by Thermonuclear bomb with no harm at all.

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Mark also tanked a bomb that was so hot, it disintegrated every molecule in Las Vegas off the planet! Mark coughs a bit.

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Not to mention Durable enough to fly through a planet, with only a destabilize Core being questionable, but through most of the planet at light speed, and then tank the planet explosion shock wave that hits them. After all this they continue fighting.

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Atom Eve atomic abilities at work. She simply manipulates atoms how see she fit. Yet a all out blood lusted Atom Eve could could only manage to burn a Viltrumite's skin off with her powers.

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Conquest keeps fighting, and Mark still had a desperate fight on his hands. Clearly more resistance to Atomic and Sub atomic level attacks.

Invincible and one of his weaker evil self strike hard enough to bash into mush a stronger version of himself.

Here he smashes in the stronger Conquest skull into mush.

Actually manages to harm and draw blood from the strongest viltrumite in the comics, Thragg.

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Not seeing it hurt him anywhere here. hell in the first scans he simply is not use to it. Nice try.

The suits are are not powered by themselves at all, and cannot act on their own will. In fact Robot has to multitask and use his technopathy to control all of them.

So if the underline is how we are doing it, they are way below level.

Now @precrisisbardock, can we stop trying to find a way to win through rules just because your character is outclass, and you simply did not put enough thought into your build?

Attacking from all fronts, and I'm also trying to force you to clarify things (Since for some reason you aren't).

Lowballing? Thats what I am doing when you yet provided no solid statement or qoute of speed, nor shown solar system or more busting on panel? Im the lowballer? Sorry if the fact Feats > fan opinions bother ya.

Actually I provided all of that, you just decided to ignore it.

Again thats your problem you did not pick a verstaile team with unique abilities. Your issue not mine. Dont be salty.

I said it's okay, but I see you can't miss an opportunity to attempt to glorify yourself.

He is not leaving the battlefield, what part of this your failing to understand?

See above response.

I been in rules the whole time, no matter how much you may not like that for this match.

See above response.

Ultimate Reed is not making a absorbing device, so its irrelevant.

Why even bother replying to it then? Strawman?

He can react just fine for reasons I will state next as per my closer.

Okay.

Yes, in the scan before he had hundreds of Engineers working for him, or initiated Invincible under the sun protocol for the City. This argument is one of the many arguments your trying to make to lower my team ability with rule call outs, its what you been doing the whole match because your character is so outclass.

Maybe you should've said that then, instead of relying on the scan of him pushing the button.

Few things actually. The moon busting is wrong, after I re check the calcs for it on two other websites. So its a continental surface buster attack. Not moon. Still the Dynomos were only a portion then, and not full force. Add to this I still have Reed fully able to block this planet busting attack with his Hard light constructs backed by the power of a star.

As for having no time to put up a shield, why not? I have a hour prep to position them half the battlefield, including portion of the mountain, and have shields already to go. Add to this Robots are there to engage your character as soon the match starts with instant teleportation, and their Invincible level combat times. So where is the blitz coming from again that i cannot be ready for it?

So your scan is of blocking a continental surface buster, where the fodder still died and portions of what they were protecting was still destroyed. This attacks is leagues of planet or multi-planet level, not to mention you haven't shown any feats of the HL helmet. My man will be above and behind your entire team from the beginning of the match and will blast the whole battlefield with a Multi-Solar system busting attack, which will destroy everything except the mountain. You wouldn't have time to put up the shield because you aren't fast enough.

He would for sure lose a fight one on one, however he is not alone, backed by an army, and second only to the Robots. First Knife attacking at any opportunity with his lighting like speeds will mess Gogeta up.

Sadly he will be vaporized along with the rest of your army. Lightning speeds? Lmao.

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Lightning speeds is Kid Goku level stuff. Your "Perfect Bodyguard" is on par with Kid Goku.

What? Show me this scan instead. I rather see this scan i never seen before.

It's what I found on Invincibles Bio, it's irrelevant anyway for it is travel speed.

The fact Invincible blitzes foes all the time when not holding back, and he wanted to kill Robot for nearly killing his family? The fact Invincible has these speed blitz feats and abilities of combat speed as a Viltrumite.

I know hardly anything about the physicals for invincible. I didn't see him blitzing in those scans either.

Quotes of Viltrumites able to go massively FTL. They are able to as stated do this near instant. In turn they are affected by time dilation by doing so granting the reaction and such that comes with that speed. Last scan states specifically there bodies attain these speeds near instant.

Travel Speed, irrelevant. Combat Speed is what matters here, plus we aren't in space.

1) A Viltrumite leaves a light trail behind him as he blitzes Allen, and reacts to his surrondings at this speed by quickly navigating Allen where he wants after targeting Allen at said speed.

2) 3 Viltrumites leaving light trails as they wreck a city, and at those speeds are actively looking for Omni Man showing reaction time at said speeds.

What is this supposed to show? He's leaving a light trail behind him as he flies? Doesn't look like they're even flying at full speed considering they are looking for someone.

I'm not going to quote all those scans, but you're trying to scale Combat speed from Travel Speed, you cannot do that as they are different. If [X] can travel FTL and [Y] can blitz him, that doesn't make [Y] FTL, if you can show [X] fighting FTL and [Y] blitzing him, then [Y] will be FTL.

For invincible's speed feats, the only FTL feat was him being able to keep up with a laser, which is still TRAVEL SPEEDS! Being able to TRAVEL at lightspeed and throw a few punches while you're traveling DOESN'T make you able to FIGHT at that speed. So Invincible can fly FTL, but he can't attack/fight FTL. To give you the benefit of the doubt lets say Invincible can fight 10x FTL and Robot is a whopping 10x faster than him, making Robot 100x FTL, that still doesn't compare to Gogeta. Pre-SSJ Goku can fight FTL as I've shown. The SSJ4 multiplier in itself will make Goku 4,000x FTL. So if Goku didn't get any faster since the Namek Saga (which he did) and only achieved new Transformations, he would still be 400x faster than Robot.

Does Gogeta tank planet busting punches? No. Best he tanks is city busting blows, maybe, and even thats strectching it. The blows from invincible characters pierce, and punch holes in subatomic level durability. Characters who can fly at light speed through a planets layers and out the other side on a planet denser than earth with no real damage to them. Yet they still punch holes in the others.

Gogeta best durability feats are Ki energy resistance, not physical. Him like any other DBZ character get mess up by mountain busting blows. While Invincible characters cannot bust mountains, they can punch through beings who can tank far beyond mountain busting.

Lol yes he does. Are we going into that Energy Durability vs Physical Durability debate?

Here's a quote from @etheral_dreams

Once again, ki is the source of 99% of all superhuman abilities in Dragonball, and is source of power for punches and energy blasts alike.

Logically if someone can survive a ki-induced multi planet explosion unharmed and laughing, and then they are killed by a ki-enhanced punch, we can safely say this: the amount of ki that powered must be larger than the amount that caused the planets to explode. Thus, the blow has multi-planet level striking power.

The whole energy durability vs physical durability debate is pretty much pointless because 9.9 times out of 10, it's just their durability against the same force: ki, only difference is its application.

Nevertheless, even if ki wasn't in the equation,there is an enormous amount of kinetic force involved in a planet's destruction, e.g scattering the planet's debris over millions of miles, dispersing the atmosphere, ect.

Saying that tanking a planet's explosion is an energy durability feat alone is moronic.

Also going by your logic, nobody on your team has ever been hit by a Ki attack, therefore you have no Ki durability feats, therefore they can all be oneshotted with my weakest Ki attacks. See why tht logic doesn't work? Just because their punches don't shatter Solar Systems or stars doesn't mean they aren't that potent. PR MM hit PR Beyonder with an attack he claimed was capable of collapsing a billion dimensions but the apartment they were in wasn't destroyed. Odin KOd Silver Surfer with an attack that made a car sized explosion, does that mean surfer can only take Car level attacks? No, it doesn't. Fictional Characters can control the potency of their attacks.

And you have?

Did you ignore everything I've posted?

Sub atomic level.

Example of the Smart Atoms at work.

He can change his body temp. not useful here.

Mark at his weakest incarnation was able to tank Dimension exploding energies that ashed a army very powerful Mauler Twins.

Unquantifiable.

Able to tank the focus power of a city busting beam with little problem or any damage after the blast.

Not impressive, not even on par with Master Roshi or King Piccolo.

Mark hit by Thermonuclear bomb with no harm at all.

Mark also tanked a bomb that was so hot, it disintegrated every molecule in Las Vegas off the planet! Mark coughs a bit.

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Baby stuff compared to what Raditz (One of the weakest characters in the franchise) can tank without a scratch.

Not to mention Durable enough to fly through a planet, with only a destabilize Core being questionable, but through most of the planet at light speed, and then tank the planet explosion shock wave that hits them. After all this they continue fighting.

Freeza flew through planet Namek, through the core, and came out the other side with minimal damage. When Freeza was sliced in half and unconscious he tanked planet Nameks explosion with minimal damage. All your feats are matched by someone who is considered fodder and gets one shotted during movies.

Oh yeah and that gif shows Base Gohan one shotting the dude who tanked a planet exploding while sliced in half and unconscious. Keep in mind Base Gohan < Base Goku < Gogeta.

As seen Invincible is insane durable, more so than Gogeta hoenstly to physical and atomic manipulation attacks.

Lolno. Nobody on your team will have a chance to use Molecule Manip. anyways.

In short Invincible punches and attacks are enough to harm, and maim beings with durability feats above I shown. Robot able to catch his killing blows and tank blows is more than enough evidence to show Gogeta is not harming Robot.

Robot is able to catch mountain level blows? Cool. Raditz can take moonbusters smiling.

Here is a idea, if it is a low ball, show me Goku lifting or punching something that superior. Go ahead and try. I no you cant. Goku has no lifting feats close to Spawn or Invincible. He best punches level small mountains, thats it. Your character is not that physically strong or durable to physical blows as those same attacks harm him.

Deal with it.

Lifting is irrelevant. Period. That gif i posted above shows Gohan one shotting someone who tanked a PLANET EXPLODING WHILE SLICED IN HALF AND KOD. LOL. Want more proof?

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Recoome tanked an attack from Vegeta thats was planetbusting+, but Goku killed him in one punch.

Trunks was so strong he could slice Freeza into Pieces (A being who tanked a point blank planet explosion while KOd) but Goku could stop Trunks' attacks with one finger.

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You're horribly wrong. Get that lowballing out of here.

Spawn has intangibility, and his soldiers have light speed teleporting. Not to mention your character is not moving fast over a field of beings moving as fast as Ultimate Thor, or in Robot's case as fast as Invincible combat speed.

Spawn won't have a chance to go intangible. Kid Goku was able to move faster than lightning as a Kid. He is also MFTL and will be behind your entire team. There is also no BFR, so they won't be able to run outside the battlefield, which will be encompassed by my Big Bang Kamehameha.

Hurts him? How does it... ohhhhhh, yeah those scans are classic Spawn who never use teleporting before.

I was focusing more on the point that his fastest technique is lightspeed and he is far surpassed in speed.

He gets use to it after the second time using it lol. Again assumptions with no real knowledge in the known facts. Your been full of those this thread.

See above response.

Again you not vaporizing a army already on the field, and 50 of them having the speed and ability to react to your character with instant teleporters too boot.

Not that your character is as fast as your BS claims are.

Nobody on your team has the speed to react to me lol. Instant teleporters still take time to use, and they can't leave the battlefield so they will still die even if they randomly teleported.

Arrogance? You have no way to counter half my defenses or attacks. Its also not hard to simply debunk your fan made facts about Gogeta.

I wou;dn't say I'm debunking anything, its just your stats don't measure up to mine in the slightest. Also nothing I've posted is fan made, I've posted proof for everything.

I debunked it in two sentences. Its that flimsy of a argument.

You "debunked" 1/6 of my argument. Congratulations, that must be your limit.

Yet 50 of my characters can react, and the rest sure can react when your guy is being tied up in one spot.

Lol, nobody on your team can react, and who's tying me up?

not simple at all since Reed can survive the blast with superior defense of the Hardlight Helmet powered by the star, and the fact Spawn has intangibility sitting on the mountain.

Gogeta can attack faster than Reed can put up a shield or Spawn can go intangible. Spawn won't even get a chance to head towards the mountain.

I did, it was a bunch of fan made crap that was debunked.

Nothing was fanmade. You're argument consisted of you saying "LOLNO THAT GUY WAS LYING!" and just ignoring the rest.

last ditch, you still have no counters for all I am listing at the bottom here. Its just another of the MANY options I can beat your single dimensional character you poorly picked.

Sure I don't, or is that just you ignoring them?

Again this is nothing but a vague statement that his characters are moving fast. How fast is the argument here, and there is no damn numbers here.

I like how you cut the other half of my response to appeal to the readers. I said this shows that Toriyama uses travel speed as a plot device so it is irrelevant in a debate, just as much as PIS/WIS is.

Yet I showed the same being done and its not the same. Your tracking a ship in empty space moving in the same damn direction to get to a planet in a week, maybe one or two "detours". However like the scans I showed of Invincible, the proof of combat speed of them fighting on a planet filled with life, objects everywhere, and in a constant erratic pattern is not the same. Sad part is your own logic fails here as King Kai many times in the fight was able to see how the battle was going when they were fighting anyway.

In short your argument is base on telepathy and a space ship. Thats really all you have? I simply showed the same feats and guess what, its not proof of anything for speed. Deal with it.

It had multiple detours and interference. He could track other fights easily also. The Planet wasn't filled with life, Freeza and Goku were the only two beings left and the planet was destroying itself. But thats even irrelevant. I had 6 things that proved Goku was lightspeed, you countered one and ignored the rest. I even have more in backup, but there is no need since it seems you can't counter the other 5 things.

Oh a Databook makes it fact now?

This Data Book from Naruto states that Temari can blow away a universe. Its clear hyperbole, and so is that Cell comment. Show him doing such a feat, or go home. Its that simple man. I showed statements on Invincible and such, and backed them with on panel feats. You have done none of this.

Pfffffftttttttttt.

Thats a clear exaggeration, Cell's was not.

1.) Akira Toriyama said he could.

2.) There was 5 people there that could sense Ki masterfully, they didn't say he was bluffing.

3.) Cooler was stated to be able to destroy a star, this is 100% irrefutable not hyperbole because he was saying it to himself and was going to do it.

4.) Bojack Destroyed portions of entire Galaxies

5.) Broly:

6.) All the above mentioned characters are weaker than Cell.

7.) It's common sense that he can destroy a solar system. Weak fodders are multi Planet busters.

8.) Pretty sure you were just referring to a handbook or something similar earlier in this thread trying to argue speeds.

9.) A sleepy Beerus threw a casual Ki blast that was capable of destroying two stars. Here's the scan.

Wanking is all your doing. Your proof of this bad fan made opinions is lacking as well.

I'm not using fan made opinions. Considering you're the one saying the author is lying about the character he made, you're the one doing that.

Thats rich. I was a huge supporter of DBZ like a blind fanboy when DBZ vs Comics was allowed on this sight a year ago. Guess why it was banned not once, but twice? It is what your doing now, giving out unsupported BS fan made calcs, and weak sauce hyperbole that enraged the common sense people on here. I made a DBZ Debunk thread, and its incredible how inconsistent, and poor thought out DBZ feats are. Incredible! While I like the Anime still, I am not so fast to blindly "rep" it like your doing now with false logic.

Yet you don't even know the power difference between Fat Buu and Super Buuhan... yeah, Ok. Focus on the debate, DBZ was banned because of flames and trolls, not for whatever you're trying to make up.

Basis of power scaling which fails in debates. While character A is stronger than B, the question is how much stronger, and what limits they have over the other. None of that is establish well if at all In DBZ.

Well, you asked me HOW DID I COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT SUPER BUUHAN WAS STRONGER THAN FAT BUU. So of course i'm going to try to explain it to you. It seems confirmed so far that you are just skimming through my posts and nitpicking what you want to "counter".

ll this is great, good stuff. So what are their limits? Whats the best they can do? Oh thats right you cant answer that at all with solid facts, only guess work >_>

Saiyans have no limits, they constantly evolve and become more powerful. For someone who claims to follow the franchise you seem very ignorant of it.

Why not? Becuase you said so? Spawn does not need to tank a energy attack that reed, the Dynomos, and his Intagibility is tanking. As for having not enough time, why not? I have prep, and can start the battle this way if need be. Meanwhile your character has no time to do this move as Robots are dealing with him, followed by the rest of the fodder.

Nobody is tanking this attack. Spawn will be vaporized within the first few seconds of the battle, he'd probably think "Alright, we need to hold the mountain." then he'll die.

Whole thread of fan made BS.

Ummmm no. It has a clear explanation and it's analyzing the manga. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's BS.

Man oh man. This is my last post. I cant take your argument seriously anymore. Whether voters like my attitude to this or not, the facts are facts here. I will have a army ready to attack with Spawn sitting on the mountain as I stated. What is proven for this.

Spawn isn't getting to the mountain. He starts at the starting point like everyone else. It's Out of character for spawn to abandon his steam and stay out of the fight anyway.