All right, let's kick this off. I'm going to skip the Introductions and move right into prep.
1. Nagi Luna gives us a mind link. She also gets on the Oculus. This essentially gives each team member nigh-omniscience in the timeframe considering the Oculus grants limitless sight.
2. The Death Eater uses the Gemino Curse to gives us limitless Nth Metal from Slade, Lutetium from Paladin, and Adamantium/Vibranium alloy from Captain America. Then we use Stark's facilities to create alloys of these metals, and use Doofenshmirtz's combin-ator to make the armors made out of them as well.
3. Captain Cold builds his cold gun. Then he, using Stark's brain, integrates it into the Iron Man armor.
4. ColdStark takes some recordings of Piper, specifically, "STOP," and "KILL YOURSELF," . He then makes everyone on his team deaf (mind link negates need for normal communication), and integrates the recording into the armor.
5. Doof's combi-nator fuses every armor that Stark has ever used together.
7. Using the Oculus's dimensional travel abilities, Piper and Nagi venture to Camp Half-Blood and pick up some pegasi. Then they go to Tartarus and charmspeak some monsters (specifically Medusa) into coming back as well.
8. Paladin (remember he has Composite Batman mind and feats) goes with Nagi Luna to the BatCave and picks up the Hellbat, Insider, and Justice Buster. Combo-nator fuses all 3.
9. We use the Combo-nator to Combine the Composite Stark suit with Composite Batman suit. We also use the Combo-nator to combine every other n-ator that Doofenshmirtz has ever invented. Then we fuse the Composite N-Ator with the Composite BatStark Suit.
10. Oculus + Mind Link gives ColdStark access to Dr. Doom's blueprints for Cosmic Energy absorbing chair. He builds a similar thing and integrates it into the Composite Suit.
11. The Death Eater uses the Gemino Curse to multiply the suit, creating a nigh-infinite amount. Then the combin-ator fuses each of us with one of the suits. In addition, we fuse with the pegasi and monsters, replicating them with the Gemino Curse.
12. We use the powers of the Otherdimension-ator to go into another dimension, but leave a few hundred suits there for you to battle.
13. We create a cold field in the area and start playing Piper's voice.
Prep Results:
Each of my characters now has all the powers of the Hellbat, every Stark suit ever made, Insider, and Justice Buster. We also have the powers of every N-ator ever, which is surprisingly OP. Lastly, we have an army of suits with the powers of all of nearly all of us. And we're in another dimension, waiting for the suits to beat you up.
· Trains in the hyperbolic time chamber to augment himself
· Creates and uses every set of armor stark has ever made to aid my team. The suits are programmed to protect my team at all costs
· Creates two suits with the abilities of all of his previous armors for himself and captain America.
Goes to the under-world and picks up a few of his old enemies such as cell, buu and broly, where surfer uses his telepathy to either make them forget they ever known goku and uses his telepathy further to make them fight for us, or use his illusionary abilities to make them think goku is just one of their lackeys and convince them if they don't assist us they will perish into nothingness as-well. (Goku's shown the ability to easily go to the under-world at the end of GT,as-well as can surfer traverse to the underworld and other dimensions ) Goku then recruits vegeta
Goku arms cell, buu and broly and vegeta with composite stark armor
Silver Surfer and Captain America
· Uses his power cosmic to enhance his teams own abilities even further
· Creates force-fields around the team which repel attacks at them, but still enable them to attack
· Creates more weaponry and augments the suits already made
Creates duplicates of our army of suits
Absorbs a stars energy to make himself even more powerful
After Prep And how we Win
Silver surfer uses his dimensional traversing abilities and cosmic senses to find you're team and take my team there, and we leave you're little army and recordings alone, or one of my teamates decimate the area. Once we arrive you're up against 6 casual planet busters, 2 of whom are extremely buffed and augmented(Goku and silver surfer). And 4 of which have insane regeneration, Goku, Buu, cell and Surfer. Silver surfer not even needing a body to exist anymore.Plus an army of 2 of each of all of starks suits. All of which are further augmented by the suits. Then you have buu with hax magic attacks, able to turn you're team into candy or flat out absorb you. Now, I realize you have magic users yourself, but none of them have been able to effect planetary level beings. As-well as Silver surfer, who knows you're teams capabilities through cosmic awareness and can disable your electronics and weaponry with his matter manipulation, or flat out transmute them, a feat he's accomplished multiple times.
Considering my entire team bar captain america at base is much faster than you're whole team can see or react to, there shouldn't be a problem here. Now I realize you have the justice buster, but the suit doesn't make you as fast as flash nor are you as strong as superman, and even if you were the speed gap ensures you're not going to land a single hit on my team, and the strength gap isn't that wide. The way I see it my team should take this match handily through our speed, strength and energy expulsion.
Trains in the hyperbolic time chamber to augment himself
Creates and uses every set of armor stark has ever made to aid my team. The suits are programmed to protect my team at all costs
Creates two suits with the abilities of all of his previous armors for himself and captain America.
Cool. Not sure how this helps you though considering I have an army of these.
Goes to the under-world and picks up a few of his old enemies such as cell, buu and broly, where surfer uses his telepathy to either make them forget they ever known goku and uses his telepathy further to make them fight for us, or use his illusionary abilities to make them think goku is just one of their lackeys and convince them if they don't assist us they will perish into nothingness as-well. (Goku's shown the ability to easily go to the under-world at the end of GT,as-well as can surfer traverse to the underworld and other dimensions ) Goku then recruits vegeta
I seriously doubt this will be happening.
I don't think you're allowed to do that. I'll debate as though it's okay, but if you advance then it's disallowed in future debates. Non-fodder characters that you convince to join your side aren't going to be permitted here.
I don't think it's in character for Surfer to mentally overpower Vegeta, Buu etc. and force them to work for you... has he ever done this to an opponent in the past with lasting effects?
Why would Goku trust Surfer with the knowledge of where his old enemies are, considering that Goku has never met Norrin and for all Goku knows he's a villain that would try and fight Goku with the enemies...
Goku arms cell, buu and broly and vegeta with composite stark armor
If you do get the enemies then this is fine
Uses his power cosmic to enhance his teams own abilities even further
What do you mean by this, and is it in character?
Creates force-fields around the team which repel attacks at them, but still enable them to attack
OK
Creates more weaponry and augments the suits already made
What weaponry, specifically?
Creates duplicates of our army of suits
How???
Absorbs a stars energy to make himself even more powerful
Has he done this in character?
I'll rebutt your plan as if all of this is fine (I can beat you anyway :P) ... but it's not.
Plan (countering yours while simultaneously bringing in my own)
Silver surfer uses his dimensional traversing abilities and cosmic senses to find you're team and take my team there, and we leave you're little army and recordings alone, or one of my teamates decimate the area.
Don't think you could decimate the area, but okay with Surfer's dimensional travel.
Once we arrive you're up against 6 casual planet busters, 2 of whom are extremely buffed and augmented(Goku and silver surfer). And 4 of which have insane regeneration, Goku, Buu, cell and Surfer. Silver surfer not even needing a body to exist anymore. Plus an army of 2 of each of all of starks suits. All of which are further augmented by the suits.
Nice team you got there.... it would be a shame if it were to be... used against you.
Introducing the Power of Shadow Thief!!!
Check this scan out.
Essentially what Shadow Thief does, is animate your own Shadow and force you to fight it. This is what he'll do as soon as you enter our dimension.
You're literally fighting yourselves, and that's a battle you can't possibly win, it would be a stalemate.
Then you have buu with hax magic attacks, able to turn you're team into candy or flat out absorb you. Now, I realize you have magic users yourself, but none of them have been able to effect planetary level beings.
To the contrary Piper's affected a sentient planet, not by transmutation but by charmspeak which I'll get into later.
As-well as Silver surfer, who knows you're teams capabilities through cosmic awareness and can disable your electronics and weaponry with his matter manipulation, or flat out transmute them, a feat he's accomplished multiple times.
Silver Surfer has almost NEVER used matter manipulation in combat, and his cosmic awareness is inconsistent.
Not to mention, how are you going counter this?
Remember, the Oculus gives my team access to every blueprint in existence, every design, every idea. I already mentioned that we'd be doing this in our prep, step number 10 if you want to go back and look. .
If Surfer could counter this tactic, he would have done so here or against Dr. Doom. However, he was unable to do either. Meaning that during this battle, the same thing will happen. Surfer will lose his power cosmic.
This completely nullifies Surfer.
Considering my entire team bar captain america at base is much faster than you're whole team can see or react to, there shouldn't be a problem here. Now I realize you have the justice buster, but the suit doesn't make you as fast as flash nor are you as strong as superman, and even if you were the speed gap ensures you're not going to land a single hit on my team, and the strength gap isn't that wide.
You do realize you're messing with Captain Cold, a guy that tangles with the Flash on a weekly basis? That's not happening, and here's why.
Remember the cold field I brought up in step 13 of my prep?
Snart's cold field can and will be absolute zero. Stops all particle movement, renders matter inert.
If you come to my dimension, you won't be able to move, much less blitz.
Regarding our supposed inability to tag you... you'll be fighting versions of yourself thanks to Shadow Thief (and shadows are not bound by temperature), so we don't need to tag you. Though we can because you'll be completely inert while Cold's tech enables us to beat you.
Regarding Strength, and Blasting:
Now, who are those characters that are blasting Ultron, you may ask? I see
Miss Marvel
Silver Surfer
Photon
3 different Quasars
Kang the Conqueror with prep
Hercules
Vision
Moondragon
Dr. Doom with prep
And yet these high level beings, including your beloved Surfer, were completely unable to harm Ultron.
Now, why is this relevant to the fight? It's relevant because our armor combines the properties of Nth Metal, Lutetium, Vibranium, and Adamantium. Adamantium is what Ultron is made of.
Now, if you want physical damage durability, Hulk and Thor are consistently unable to harm Ultron, each planet busters in their own right.
You're not harming me when I'm inside the armor.
Piper McLean!
I'd like to show the significance of my recordings.
Piper McLean is a daughter of Aphrodite. This gives her a power known as charmspeak, which involves using one's voice to make others do what you want.
Piper's voice has transcended simple manipulation (it has many other applications), but it's still extremely potent in that category.
Observe her showings:
vs. Earthborn
Enceladus smiled. “You see, Piper, you have a choice. Save your father, or ah, try to save your friends and face certain death.”
Piper stepped forward. Her eyes blazed with such rage, even the Earthborn backed away. She radiated power and beauty, but it had nothing to do with her clothes or her makeup.
“You will not take the people I love,” she said. “None of them.”
Her words rippled across the clearing with such force, the Earthborn muttered, “Okay. Okay, sorry,” and began to retreat.
vs. the GODDESS Hera and Thalia (daughter of Zeus)
Hot,” he muttered. “Mouth is dry. And I saw something… really terrible.”
“That was Hera,” Thalia grumbled. “Her Majesty, the Loose Cannon.”
“That’s it, Thalia Grace,” said the goddess. “I will turn you into an aardvark, so help me—”
“Stop it, you two,” Piper said. Amazingly, they both shut up.
Piper helped Jason to his feet and gave him the last nectar from their supplies.
Eidolons (dead spirits that can possess both the living and inanimate objects)
Piper mustered all her courage. She looked straight at Jason—straight into the eyes of the thing that was controlling him. “You will leave those bodies,” Piper repeated, even more forcefully.
Jason’s face tightened. His forehead beaded with sweat. “We—we will leave these bodies.”
“You will vow on the River Styx never to return to this ship,” Piper continued, “and never to possess any member of this crew.”
Leo and Percy both hissed in protest.
“You will promise on the River Styx,” Piper insisted.
A moment of tension—she could feel their wills fighting against hers. Then all three eidolons spoke in unison: “We promise on the River Styx.”
“You are dead,” Piper said.
“We are dead,” they agreed.
“Now, leave.”
All three boys slumped forward. Percy fell face-first into his pizza.
Roman Mob of Demigods and Legionnaires
Annabeth felt a glimmer of hope. Maybe they could make it out of here alive. Then, from halfway across the forum, she heard Jason shouting.
“Romans!” he cried. “Please!”
He and Piper were being pelted with plates and stones. Jason tried to shield Piper, but a brick caught him above the eye. He crumpled, and the crowd surged forward.
“Get back!” Piper screamed. Her charmspeak rolled over the mob, making them hesitate...
And most importantly....
"What you want", Piper continued, "more than victory, more than revenge . . . you want rest. You are so weary, so incomprehensibly tired of the ungrateful mortals and immortals."
"I-YOU DO NOT SPEAK FOR ME - YOU CANNOT -"
"You want one thing," Piper said soothingly, her voice resonating through Jason's bones. "One word. You want permission to close your eyes and forget your troubles. You - want - SLEEP."
Gaea solidified into human form. Her head lolled, her eyes closed, and she went limp.
This is possibly Piper's best charmspeak feat.
Gaea is quite literally the Earth itself. She was asleep for eons (and in her sleep she made volcanoes erupt on people she didn't like), and she's capable of soloing the entire Olypmian Pantheon. She has immense willpower, and the only thing she wanted was to defeat the Gods and have her sons take their place. She also has persuasion of her own, as she manipulated gods and goddesses as well as legions of monsters into doing her bidding, knowingly or not.
And yet, Piper defeats her with a word.
If she can do this against Gaea, she can do it against your team.
The way I see it my team should take this match handily through our speed, strength and energy expulsion.
You don't have any advantage at all, because you're fighting yourselves thanks to Shadow Thief. A battle which by nature you cannot win.
And even if Shadow Thief wasn't here, you'd still be unable to move thanks to the Cold Field. Surfer would have his cosmic energy drained. You'd be unable to harm us because of our armor, while I can harm you with superior weaponry and force you to sleep, stop, or kill yourself with Piper's charmspeak.
Even if your dubious prep works, it's just more power for me to use against you. There's just no way you can win this with the prep I've laid out.
I don't think you're allowed to do that. I'll debate as though it's okay, but if you advance then it's disallowed in future debates. Non-fodder characters that you convince to join your side aren't going to be permitted here.
I don't think it's in character for Surfer to mentally overpower Vegeta, Buu etc. and force them to work for you... has he ever done this to an opponent in the past with lasting effects?
Why would Goku trust Surfer with the knowledge of where his old enemies are, considering that Goku has never met Norrin and for all Goku knows he's a villain that would try and fight Goku with the enemies...
Wasn't in the rules so assumed it was.
He doesn't have to mentally overpower Vegeta, and he would indeed use his illusionary and telepathic abilities to help win a battle.
Goku is able to sense good or bad intentions
We've had 2 days to train and build, I think it's pretty safe to say over that time my team would get to know each other
IIRC Captain Americas met surfer before and could convince goku
What do you mean by this, and is it in character?
Of course.
What weaponry, specifically?
Cosmic weaponry, such as;
Only much more powerful and each in the suits
Has he done this in character?
Quite a few times actually
Gallery
Absorbing the strength of stars he what silver surfer does with prep, and he'll do it again here
Check this scan out.
Essentially what Shadow Thief does, is animate your own Shadow and force you to fight it. This is what he'll do as soon as you enter our dimension.
You're literally fighting yourselves, and that's a battle you can't possibly win, it would be a stalemate.
Well firstly Silver surfers already beaten a perfect clone of himself. Doing it again wouldn't be a problem. Next-off, Surfer's recently shown the ability to burn brighter than 10 suns, and I doubt the shadows would still be around after he does that
I also expect that taking out shadow-thief himself would cause the shadows to disperse? If thats the case Silver surfers cosmic awareness would most likely alert him to that and he'd target and take him out first.
If none if this works then tell me how Shadow theif is beaten or K.O'Ed and I almost guarantee someone on my team is capable of doing so.
Silver Surfer has almost NEVER used matter manipulation in combat, and his cosmic awareness is inconsistent.
On the contrary, he's done it multiple times
Gallery
Remember, the Oculus gives my team access to every blueprint in existence, every design, every idea. I already mentioned that we'd be doing this in our prep, step number 10 if you want to go back and look. .
If Surfer could counter this tactic, he would have done so here or against Dr. Doom. However, he was unable to do either. Meaning that during this battle, the same thing will happen. Surfer will lose his power cosmic.
This completely nullifies Surfer.
Ah, I had hoped you were going to bring this up.
I honestly hope you don't think Silver surfer is going to fall for the same thing twice? You realize his cosmic awareness will alert him to a weapon that's already been used against him
The way black panther took it was silver surfer blast him, BP didn't fire a beam that started sucking SS's power.And Silver surfer is not in any shape or form going to attack without disabling the weapon if he knows the same thing has been used on him twice.
Surfer's not nullified, if anything you're team are the ones nullified considering it's more in character for the pacifistic surfer to disable your're weaponry before attacking
Examples of silver surfer's cosmic awareness;
Gallery
Useless Device is useless.
You do realize you're messing with Captain Cold, a guy that tangles with the Flash on a weekly basis? That's not happening, and here's why.
Remember the cold field I brought up in step 13 of my prep?
Snart's cold field can and will be absolute zero. Stops all particle movement, renders matter inert.
To start off with, the cold field seems like something snart has around him and locally, not something he can expand and make across an entire battle arena. It also hardly has stopped guys like flash that are capable of FTL movement. Snart even flat out says his cold field can be bypassed by guys like flash
And then even if it did stop us, Silver surfer has up and countered an absolute zero field vs ronan with his power cosmic
Gallery
Now, who are those characters that are blasting Ultron, you may ask? I see
Miss Marvel
Silver Surfer
Photon
3 different Quasars
Kang the Conqueror with prep
Hercules
Vision
Moondragon
Dr. Doom with prep
And yet these high level beings, including your beloved Surfer, were completely unable to harm Ultron.
Now, why is this relevant to the fight? It's relevant because our armor combines the properties of Nth Metal, Lutetium, Vibranium, and Adamantium. Adamantium is what Ultron is made of.
Now, if you want physical damage durability, Hulk and Thor are consistently unable to harm Ultron, each planet busters in their own right.
Lets see.
Silver surfer doesn't have to use his energy blasts, he's capable of atomizing you or shrinking down to sub-atomic sizes and beating you from there. That, or he can use his matter manipulation to constrict you with your own armor. All things he can do in-character. Also unlike in that feat, he has more than the power of a star here.
Buu can and will turn you into candy or absorb you
Goku himself is capable of atomizing foes with his blasts and has done it vs buu. And also posses destructo disk, which was able to cut planetary level beings
We don't even need to go the physical route here.
Then you have Goku easily breaking through a core of a planet 10x denser than earth with a single strike, one which was not even intended to do so. Add on to the fact he's greatly amped here, you are by no means impervious to damage.
You're not harming me when I'm inside the armor.
On the contrary actually.
er McLean is a daughter of Aphrodite. This gives her a power known as charmspeak, which involves using one's voice to make others do what you want.
Piper's voice has transcended simple manipulation (it has many other applications), but it's still extremely potent in that category.
Observe her showings:
Quite impressive. However that should honestly fall under the category of telepathy/hypnotic suggestions ect. Something SS has shown extreme resistance to and goku is immune to. And if it's magic, buu has a higher level of it.
You don't have any advantage at all, because you're fighting yourselves thanks to Shadow Thief. A battle which by nature you cannot win.
And even if Shadow Thief wasn't here, you'd still be unable to move thanks to the Cold Field. Surfer would have his cosmic energy drained. You'd be unable to harm us because of our armor, while I can harm you with superior weaponry and force you to sleep, stop, or kill yourself with Piper's charmspeak.
Even if your dubious prep works, it's just more power for me to use against you. There's just no way you can win this with the prep I've laid out.
GG.
I have practically every advantage. Speed, strength, magic, durability ect. The only thing you have an advantage in is numbers.
Silver surfer counters the cold field, and isn't drained. And even if he was drained, he posses reactions far faster than anyone on you're team, meaning at the very least he'd disable you're weaponry. I can harm you all I want, and none of that is going to happen as we most likely blitz.
@nighthunder: not bad. But I can see more holes in your argument than Swiss Cheese! Let's go debunk you, shall we?
Counter Town
Wasn't in the rules so assumed it was.
He doesn't have to mentally overpower Vegeta, and he would indeed use his illusionary and telepathic abilities to help win a battle.
Goku is able to sense good or bad intentions
We've had 2 days to train and build, I think it's pretty safe to say over that time my team would get to know each other
IIRC Captain Americas met surfer before and could convince goku
Surfer's literally never done this, ever. He's never done such a thing as wiping a villain's memory to obtain their assistance. So I fail to see why he would do it here.
Of course.
This is insufficient, you need to show him doing it.
Well firstly Silver surfers already beaten a perfect clone of himself. Doing it again wouldn't be a problem. Next-off, Surfer's recently shown the ability to burn brighter than 10 suns, and I doubt the shadows would still be around after he does that
Here's the difference: you can't put down your own shadow. Eventually, you will tire out. Your shadow will not.
You'd also have to burn until you put all of us down - a task you would be hard-pressed to accomplish considering our adamantium durability.
Also, the brightness of 10 suns would blind Goku, Buu, and the rest, but not us because we have visors that protect us. So congratulations, you just took care of everyone on your own team for me.
I also expect that taking out shadow-thief himself would cause the shadows to disperse? If thats the case Silver surfers cosmic awareness would most likely alert him to that and he'd target and take him out first.
My apologies, but you've never shown anything to suggest that Surfer's cosmic awareness is so specific.
If none if this works then tell me how Shadow theif is beaten or K.O'Ed and I almost guarantee someone on my team is capable of doing so.
In that issue Shadow Thief was defeated when Hawkman and Hawkgirl used the mystical Nth Metal to KO Shadow Thief. Nth Metal is a metal with special properties, no ordinary metal was able to defeat the shadows.
Draining and Transmutation
Ah, I had hoped you were going to bring this up.
I honestly hope you don't think Silver surfer is going to fall for the same thing twice? You realize his cosmic awareness will alert him to a weapon that's already been used against him
The way black panther took it was silver surfer blast him, BP didn't fire a beam that started sucking SS's power.And Silver surfer is not in any shape or form going to attack without disabling the weapon if he knows the same thing has been used on him twice.
Surfer's not nullified, if anything you're team are the ones nullified considering it's more in character for the pacifistic surfer to disable your're weaponry before attacking
1. Yes, I do, considering he's fallen for it twice already. You see, Panther's tech was copied from Doom's cosmic energy draining chair, which Doom tricked Surfer into entering in Fantastic Four 155-157. So why did Surfer not use his cosmic awareness in the manner you are suggesting against Panther, when he had already fallen for it once?
2. How are you going to disable the weapon? You do realize that thanks to the Combin-ator, the weapon is part of our bodies. There's literally nothing you can do to suppress it, unless you transmute us (and I'll go over why that won't work). In addition his cosmic awareness is not nearly as specific as you claim, so I fail to see how he is capable of such an act.
Did Surfer truly fire the blast beforehand, or was T'Challa's device "sucking" the power out of him in the form of a blast? And Stark/Doofenshmirtz/Batman could easily modify it to make it work over longer ranges or without having to be blasted, considering that Stark's armor can absorb energy.
3. Except you have no means of doing that. I have no "weaponry" in the sense of a device that I use against you, I have powers. The combin-ator combines me with my suit, making us a single sentient being. Meaning it's not going to be Surfer's go-to move anymore.
On the contrary, he's done it multiple times
Here is what your scans show:
1. Surfer atomizing a lion-like creature
2. Surfer reconfiguring some tech (inapplicable considering the powers are now built-in)
3. Not entirely sure what's going on here, but whatever it is required a blast, meaning that we'll definitively be able to absorb your cosmic energy if you try it.
4. Surfer dismantling some body armor, after a fight
5. Surfer transmuting a rod. However in this one Surfer needed to shoot the rod with eye beams to do so; however, in this case he will be unable to do it because a blast would mean no more cosmic energy and thus powerless Silver Surfer.
You're claiming that Silver Surfer would use his cosmic awareness to see that matter manipulation is a weakness, but also that he'd go for it right off the bat in character, and turn his opponents into candy or snow or w/e.
This is not going to happen considering that Surfer has NEVER transmuted a person straight off the bat and also because his cosmic awareness isn't precise enough.
I'd also like to bring up a few instances in which Silver Surfer could have used matter manipulation to quell a threat but opted not to because it ISN'T IN CHARACTER FOR HIM.
vs. Ultron
vs. Thor
vs. Adam Warlock
vs. Red Hulk
Each time, Silver Surfer lost where he could have been defeated via matter manipulation. I specifically point to his battles with Thor (he lost to Odinson THREE TIMES) and his fight with Ultron. Against these foes, a simple wave of the hand would have made Ultron a very angry slice of cheese or Thor cement, yet Surfer didn't do it. Even if it's CIS, it's still in character.
The other possibility is that it wasn't because he wouldn't do it in character but because each opponent is immune to transmutation, in which case my characters would be too because they are made up of the same stuff as Ultron.
Cosmic Awareness
Examples of silver surfer's cosmic awareness;
Gallery
Here's what you're claiming Surfer can do:
Sense that my team's in another dimension
Sense that Shadow Thief would use Shadows against him
Sense that transmutation is one of my weaknesses
Sense that there's a cold field up
And here are the feats you show:
Surfer sensing life aboard a ship
Surfer telling someone that the person in question is not a good enough shot to hit the target (this doesn't necessarily show precog; you need to show him explicitly using cosmic awareness to do something as specifically as you claim he can)
Surfer telling Gladiator that he knows Kallark's weakness (which may or may not be precog, it could just be general knowledge gleaned by studying or by asking around, or telepathy)
That is a huge discrepancy, and far too large to ignore. And your plan wholly relies on this dubious cosmic awareness.
Lets see.
Silver surfer doesn't have to use his energy blasts, he's capable of atomizing you or shrinking down to sub-atomic sizes and beating you from there. That, or he can use his matter manipulation to constrict you with your own armor. All things he can do in-character. Also unlike in that feat, he has more than the power of a star here.
Atomizing won't work because adamantium is immune to it.
I don't believe Surfer's ever shrunk someone to sub-atomic sizes to fight right off the bat. And besides Doof has made devices that make one grow exponentially in size, and if you recall, we have the powers of all his machines. Also Doof is no stranger to sub-atomic level, considering once he made a device that shrunk anything down to the size of atoms.
Constricting me in my armor??? What armor? I have a body that's adamantium/lutetium/vibranium/Nth Metal. No armor.
And Surfer's energy reserves, the power cosmic, far exceed that of a star. I really don't know why you think absorbing a star will amp you in any way.
Buu can and will turn you into candy or absorb you
Buu's too busy fighting his own Shadow.
Goku himself is capable of atomizing foes with his blasts and has done it vs buu. And also posses destructo disk, which was able to cut planetary level beings
And you think we can't take some atomization? Don't you think that if Ultron could be destroyed that easily, he would have been by now? Not to mention Nth Metal gives us insane healing factors. Cutting planetary level beings is cute when you're talking about adamantium, which has taken far more than planetary level blasts and physical punishment.
We don't even need to go the physical route here.
Because you can't, lol
Then you have Goku easily breaking through a core of a planet 10x denser than earth with a single strike, one which was not even intended to do so. Add on to the fact he's greatly amped here, you are by no means impervious to damage.
You do realize that Ultron took the blasts of MULTIPLE planet busters without even a dent? Not to mention, you haven't even proved your characters can move in the cold field, much less blast me.
Charmspeak
Quite impressive. However that should honestly fall under the category of telepathy/hypnotic suggestions ect. Something SS has shown extreme resistance to and goku is immune to. And if it's magic, buu has a higher level of it.
You're literally relying on characters you didn't pay for to counter this. It's not telepathy at all, considering she doesn't use her mind, but her voice. It's not magic either, as there has been no indication of such in the show (although some users are sorceresses). More like a cosmic superpower, entirely on its own from both magic and telepathy.
Piper has literally used it on gods, and primal entities. What hope do you have?
And speaking of Buu, what if we were to use our telepathy to rekindle Buu's/Vegeta's/Broly's memory of hating Goku? All we'd have to do is transfer the episode of DBZ into his brain. And considering that in episode 50 Doof essentially gave himself planetary level telepathy which he used to wipe the minds of people, and has also made mind control devices, it shouldn't be much of a problem.
Then you'd be fighting not only us but Buu, Vegeta, Broly, their shadows, and your shadows.
Cold Field
To start off with, the cold field seems like something snart has around him and locally, not something he can expand and make across an entire battle arena.
And you think Batman, Doof, and Stark can't increase the range? Snart doesn't even have a college education in the New 52, and yet knows and understands the inner workings of the gun (I think he may have built it but I'm not sure). Out of a single strand of Asgadian DNA, Stark has made a cyborg Thor with the ability to make AOE Lightning attacks, and you think that he can't toggle the range of an already-functional cold gun?
Not to mention, we have a nigh-infinite amount of suits because of the Gemino Curse. So we could flood the area with them and have each make a separate field, make one larger cold field, if the aforementioned modification didn't work.
It also hardly has stopped guys like flash that are capable of FTL movement. Snart even flat out says his cold field can be bypassed by guys like flash
Are you insinuating that your characters are as fast as Flash? Do I really have to bring up Human Race or other Flash feats that put them FAR above Goku and Surfer? If you want to carry on that ridiculous notion, I will oblige, but for now I will pretend you never said such a blasphemous thing.
Snart doesn't say "like" Flash, he says Flash. This is because of the Flash's connection to the Speed Force and the properties that the Speed Force brings. Copmpletely inert = completely inert.
And then even if it did stop us, Silver surfer has up and countered an absolute zero field vs ronan with his power cosmic
Let's analyze this instance.
Surfer was not under the effects of the field at the time. We'll know which way you're coming from thanks to the Oculus and we'll make a gigantic cold field around that area, so as soon as you enter, you will be rendered inert. Your feat is deemed inapplicable in my first bullet point.
Absolute zero is a fragile thing. A fraction of a degree makes the difference between no particle movement, and particle movement. In the scans we observe that Ronan, the only thing keeping the field intact, was incapacitated by Surfer before the field was dispersed. This means that the field was already feeling the affects of the heat around it, and shifted. Even the slightest shift starts particle movement once more. This means that Surfer only heated it up to a bearable temperature, he did not completely counter absolute zero as you claim.
Surfer had to blast the cold field; if he blasts ours he'll be powerless.
I believe I have debunked this thoroughly.
Speed
Honestly, you may not even have the speed advantage here, although speed is inconsequential when taking the cold field into consideration.
Batman's Insider suit gives the user limited access to the Speed Force.
Durability
You really think you can break a combination of Adamantium (see Ultron), Vibranium, and Nth Metal (which took punches from Superman)? On top of that, I also have the durability of the Hellbat (which took punches from Darkseid, a JLA teambuster) and Stark's armor (which has taken nukes at 2% power and taken hits from Thor and Hulk, both casual planet busters).
Again, even if you could get past the Cold Field (you really can't)
So, let's Recap Your Plan
In this section I will list the steps to your plan and go over why they won't work.
1. Surfer's cosmic awareness and dimensional travel
You haven't shown the necessary feats for Surfer's precog to show that he would be aware that my team is in another dimension. Honestly your best feat for cosmic awareness is that there were life forms aboard that ship; your other two scans did not say cosmic awareness and it wasn't a prediction of the future, just Surfer stating that a guy would miss and him telling Gladiator that he knew his weakness; in neither instance was it shown that cosmic awareness was used.
2. Enter my dimension and speedblitz
Nope, you're frozen. No particle movement.
3. Unfreeze with Surfer's powers
Not an option for reasons already discussed. Essentially because Surfer would be under the effects himself, and because he's never truly thawed someone from absolute zero.
4. Transmutation
I believe that if transmutation was a viable option against adamantium, Thor or Surfer would have transmuted Ultron by now. Yet, they haven't, calling this argument into question. In addition it's completely out of character for Surfer to lead with this move.
5. Go for the weaponry
I don't have any weaponry. It's all part of our bodies.
6. Blast us
The moment Surfer does, he gets de-powered by draining. Goku and the other DBZ dudes can't move because of absolute zero (assuming you have them at all).
@thenewbluebeetle007: The same goes doubly for you're own post :) Let's continue
Even Further Debunking
Surfer's literally never done this, ever. He's never done such a thing as wiping a villain's memory to obtain their assistance. So I fail to see why he would do it here.
Using assumptive logic here, inferring that I was having silver surfer completely mind-wipe them, when I stated He'd erase their memories of goku in order for them to assist us. And then you haven't countered the fact he's as equally capable of creating illusions to make them fight with us. Nor did anything you just say debunk the other statements I made
This is insufficient, you need to show him doing it.
With pleasure
Here surfer evolves the abilities of a young man.Just as he is able to do so here, he's capable of evolving goku and co.'s own abilities further as-well.
You'd also have to burn until you put all of us down - a task you would be hard-pressed to accomplish considering our adamantium durability.
Also, the brightness of 10 suns would blind Goku, Buu, and the rest, but not us because we have visors that protect us. So congratulations, you just took care of everyone on your own team for me.
Everyone here has a ridiculous amount of stamina.
Here's the thing, all of them have dealt with and are capable of doing an attack called the solar flare, and are equally as capable of shielding their eyes from it. To add on to the fact silver surfer is capable of communicating threw telepathy, he could easily earn them before he's about to do it.
Since you have not debunked this taking care of you're little shadows I'm going to assume their taken care of through the debate.
My apologies, but you've never shown anything to suggest that Surfer's cosmic awareness is so specific.
I actually have. Silver surfers cosmic awareness located gladiators specific weakness. I'd need proof it //wouldn't// tell him the same here.
In that issue Shadow Thief was defeated when Hawkman and Hawkgirl used the mystical Nth Metal to KO Shadow Thief. Nth Metal is a metal with special properties, no ordinary metal was able to defeat the shadows.
Considering everyone on my team have phyiscal attributes above hawkman and hawkgirl, their equally capable of K.O'ing him. The phyiscal force of a planet alone would hit through the adamantium though not break it and K.O them from the inside.
1. Yes, I do, considering he's fallen for it twice already. You see, Panther's tech was copied from Doom's cosmic energy draining chair, which Doom tricked Surfer into entering in Fantastic Four 155-157. So why did Surfer not use his cosmic awareness in the manner you are suggesting against Panther, when he had already fallen for it once?
2. How are you going to disable the weapon? You do realize that thanks to the Combin-ator, the weapon is part of our bodies. There's literally nothing you can do to suppress it, unless you transmute us (and I'll go over why that won't work). In addition his cosmic awareness is not nearly as specific as you claim, so I fail to see how he is capable of such an act.
Did Surfer truly fire the blast beforehand, or was T'Challa's device "sucking" the power out of him in the form of a blast? And Stark/Doofenshmirtz/Batman could easily modify it to make it work over longer ranges or without having to be blasted, considering that Stark's armor can absorb energy.
3. Except you have no means of doing that. I have no "weaponry" in the sense of a device that I use against you, I have powers. The combin-ator combines me with my suit, making us a single sentient being. Meaning it's not going to be Surfer's go-to move anymore.
Then you you're-self are under-selling silver surfers cosmic awareness and intelligence. The second time the device was used in an entirely different manner so I don't see why you're comparing the two.
The silver surfer has shown on multiple accounts the ability to disable machinery through the power cosmic. I'd also like to note you didn't state you're fully machine, only they you're fused to them, implying a sort of android fashion. He has no need to transmute you when he can hurt you internally or disable you're tech
Surfer fired a blast at BP and it started sucking the power. Thus surfer states he can't stop.
You still have machinery in and out-side of you. Surfer is capable of disable said machinery, as is everyone on my team as a few on starks suit com equipped with EM emitters. If you still have human insides? Surfer can and will drop you by messing with you internally as a means of ending the fight quickly. Machines inside? Surfer is capable of disabling. Pick one.
The absorb surfer strat fails due to you not realizing it takes surfer to blast BP willingly in order for him to suck it out. Another thing to consider is this is pre-annihilation surfer, who is much less powerful than surfer is currently.
Here is what your scans show:
1. Surfer atomizing a lion-like creature
2. Surfer reconfiguring some tech (inapplicable considering the powers are now built-in)
3. Not entirely sure what's going on here, but whatever it is required a blast, meaning that we'll definitively be able to absorb your cosmic energy if you try it.
4. Surfer dismantling some body armor, after a fight
5. Surfer transmuting a rod. However in this one Surfer needed to shoot the rod with eye beams to do so; however, in this case he will be unable to do it because a blast would mean no more cosmic energy and thus powerless Silver Surfer.
You're claiming that Silver Surfer would use his cosmic awareness to see that matter manipulation is a weakness, but also that he'd go for it right off the bat in character, and turn his opponents into candy or snow or w/e.
This is not going to happen considering that Surfer has NEVER transmuted a person straight off the bat and also because his cosmic awareness isn't precise enough.
I'd also like to bring up a few instances in which Silver Surfer could have used matter manipulation to quell a threat but opted not to because it ISN'T IN CHARACTER FOR HIM.
I'm not claiming any of that. You stated surfer isn't going to use his matter manipulation in combat and that's something I refuted. Nice try at a red herring though.
I'd also like to bring up a few instances in which Silver Surfer could have used matter manipulation to quell a threat but opted not to because it ISN'T IN CHARACTER FOR HIM.
vs. Ultron
vs. Thor
vs. Adam Warlock
vs. Red Hulk
Each time, Silver Surfer lost where he could have been defeated via matter manipulation. I specifically point to his battles with Thor (he lost to Odinson THREE TIMES) and his fight with Ultron. Against these foes, a simple wave of the hand would have made Ultron a very angry slice of cheese or Thor cement, yet Surfer didn't do it. Even if it's CIS, it's still in character.
The other possibility is that it wasn't because he wouldn't do it in character but because each opponent is immune to transmutation, in which case my characters would be too because they are made up of the same stuff as Ultron.
The old; "If he could have, he would have!" argument that rarely factors in the plot going on in the actual incidents. Lets address each and every one of these
Vs ultron. Im assuming you're referencing where he shot a beam at him like the others? Well the fight wasn't simply Silver surfer vs Ultron, if it were it's generally agreed upon silver surfer would win. However the plot called for Silver surfer to join with everyone and fire his own beam.
Vs the thor. You do realize their latest and only fight after silver surfers upgrade ended in a draw correct? And then you realize that silver surfer honestly has no real reason to use his matter manip to turn thor into cement when he's capable of fighting him without it. I'm also not certain if matter manipulation even works on thor
Adam warlock, I haven't the foggiest of idea if which fight you're talking about?
You seriously can't be referencing Rulk beating down an inexperienced, younger surfer are you?
The, "If he coulda, he woulda" argument is pretty weak, you shouldn't base you're entire argument upon it my friend.
Here's what you're claiming Surfer can do:
Sense that my team's in another dimension
Sense that Shadow Thief would use Shadows against him
Sense that transmutation is one of my weaknesses
Sense that there's a cold field up
And here are the feats you show:
Surfer sensing life aboard a ship
Surfer telling someone that the person in question is not a good enough shot to hit the target (this doesn't necessarily show precog; you need to show him explicitly using cosmic awareness to do something as specifically as you claim he can)
Surfer telling Gladiator that he knows Kallark's weakness (which may or may not be precog, it could just be general knowledge gleaned by studying or by asking around, or telepathy)
That is a huge discrepancy, and far too large to ignore. And your plan wholly relies on this dubious cosmic awareness.
Assumptive logic won't fly here mate.
In actuality, Im saying.
Silver surfers cosmic awareness has alerted him of beings from across dimensions. Surfer sensed and tracked mephisto across dimensions
Considering the 2nd dimension isn't at all very different from the 1st one other than Heinz actually becoming successful, it honestly shouldn't be a very hard time for Surfer to traverse to.
SS's CA can and has alerted him of weaknesses, and it will tell him if taking out ST will take out the shadows
The gladiator feat alone proves this
Considering he's encountered it before, there is no reason he shouldn't sense it
Atomizing won't work because adamantium is immune to it.
I don't believe Surfer's ever shrunk someone to sub-atomic sizes to fight right off the bat. And besides Doof has made devices that make one grow exponentially in size, and if you recall, we have the powers of all his machines. Also Doof is no stranger to sub-atomic level, considering once he made a device that shrunk anything down to the size of atoms.
Constricting me in my armor??? What armor? I have a body that's adamantium/lutetium/vibranium/Nth Metal. No armor.
And Surfer's energy reserves, the power cosmic, far exceed that of a star. I really don't know why you think absorbing a star will amp you in any way.
Proof? IIRC Adamantium is merely extremely resistant to physical and enegy attacks, not sub-atomic ones such as atomizing.
Ah, then a huge mistake on my own part as I assumed you're merely wearing the suits as armor.
Simple adding really. If surfer already posses the ability to contain enough energy as a star, absorbing one will only amp him further. And then you have the fact not a single member of you're team posses the durability, even with the suits to tank star level attacks. Nevermind the hell-bat suit withstanding the heat of the sun, I'm talking about the energy a star puts out in its life time.
Buu's too busy fighting his own Shadow.
No, he's really not thanks to either one of goku and co.'s solar flare, or silver surfer.
You do realize that Ultron took the blasts of MULTIPLE planet busters without even a dent? Not to mention, you haven't even proved your characters can move in the cold field, much less blast me.
You do realize that Energy durability =/= Physical durability, right?
You're literally relying on characters you didn't pay for to counter this. It's not telepathy at all, considering she doesn't use her mind, but her voice. It's not magic either, as there has been no indication of such in the show (although some users are sorceresses). More like a cosmic superpower, entirely on its own from both magic and telepathy.
Piper has literally used it on gods, and primal entities. What hope do you have?
And speaking of Buu, what if we were to use our telepathy to rekindle Buu's/Vegeta's/Broly's memory of hating Goku? All we'd have to do is transfer the episode of DBZ into his brain. And considering that in episode 50 Doof essentially gave himself planetary level telepathy which he used to wipe the minds of people, and has also made mind control devices, it shouldn't be much of a problem.
Then you'd be fighting not only us but Buu, Vegeta, Broly, their shadows, and your shadows.
Using her voice to induce actions from others; By description it sounds like hypnotic suggestion through her voice, which falls under the category of telepathy. A link to super-power wiki if you don't understand mate; http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Hypnosis
Because
That requires telepathy, not a smart move considering while you're thinking, we're still moving faster than you can react to
Something not even in-character for anyone on you're team to do
Vegeta would fight for goku without the TP, and it's not something we're using on him in the first place.
And you think Batman, Doof, and Stark can't increase the range? Snart doesn't even have a college education in the New 52, and yet knows and understands the inner workings of the gun (I think he may have built it but I'm not sure). Out of a single strand of Asgadian DNA, Stark has made a cyborg Thor with the ability to make AOE Lightning attacks, and you think that he can't toggle the range of an already-functional cold gun?
Not to mention, we have a nigh-infinite amount of suits because of the Gemino Curse. So we could flood the area with them and have each make a separate field, make one larger cold field, if the aforementioned modification didn't work.
Though you didn't say you increased the range in you're prep at all, and merely built the gun, in the new 52 the cold field is worse than it as pre-52, and only slows down the flash so snart can go 1v1 vs him, and for a while snart had the cold powers himself, not the gun. Pre 52 it was much better but again, has only shown to be created around him and near him as a sort of shield. To say you can increase the range is purely speculative however not something entirely impossible.
Are you insinuating that your characters are as fast as Flash? Do I really have to bring up Human Race or other Flash feats that put them FAR above Goku and Surfer? If you want to carry on that ridiculous notion, I will oblige, but for now I will pretend you never said such a blasphemous thing.
Snart doesn't say "like" Flash, he says Flash. This is because of the Flash's connection to the Speed Force and the properties that the Speed Force brings. Copmpletely inert = completely inert.
An appeal to the stone fallacy there.
To begin with, snart indeed says of a flash. Meaning something moving at the same or similar speeds of him. If you're talking about the pre-52 cold field where wally is flash, I'd like to point out wally rarely if at all goes faster than light vs the rouges so I doubt he's talking about speeds like that.In the new 52, barry hardly breaches that speed, and has only done so twice IIRC to reach the speed-force.
And then you have my team of FTL'ers especially silver surfer
Gallery
Let's analyze this instance.
Surfer was not under the effects of the field at the time. We'll know which way you're coming from thanks to the Oculus and we'll make a gigantic cold field around that area, so as soon as you enter, you will be rendered inert. Your feat is deemed inapplicable in my first bullet point.
Absolute zero is a fragile thing. A fraction of a degree makes the difference between no particle movement, and particle movement. In the scans we observe that Ronan, the only thing keeping the field intact, was incapacitated by Surfer before the field was dispersed. This means that the field was already feeling the affects of the heat around it, and shifted. Even the slightest shift starts particle movement once more. This means that Surfer only heated it up to a bearable temperature, he did not completely counter absolute zero as you claim.
Surfer had to blast the cold field; if he blasts ours he'll be powerless.
I believe I have debunked this thoroughly.
No way to do that considering you have not increased the cold fields range in you're prep. And then I doubt the oculus can track someone traversing dimensions though feel free to prove me wrong on that one. The feat is entirely applicable as you're assuming he'll need to move somewhat in order to remove the cold field
Completely presumptive thinking here. If you notice I left out most of the battle and showed surfer dispersing the cold field. You assuming the absolute zero field and ronan being inter-related, when its most logical to infer that they were not considering surfer had to remove it instead of it flat out disperrssing upon ronan being K.O'ed
I think you don't under-stand the nature of the the power-absorber my friend. Surfer had to fire a blast at BP in order for it to work. As in surfer isn't blasting you're team, but the cold field. Considering you're team are only generating this supposed massive cold field and not the field itself, destroying the field will have no ill results for us
At you're best, the cold field slows us down a bit like it does flash.
At the worst there's no cold field to begin with.
Honestly, you may not even have the speed advantage here, although speed is inconsequential when taking the cold field into consideration.
Batman's Insider suit gives the user limited access to the Speed Force.
Considering the fact katana in the very scan you post tags batman, we very well have the speed advantage. I had hoped this would be an un-contested fact.
Durability
You really think you can break a combination of Adamantium (see Ultron), Vibranium, and Nth Metal (which took punches from Superman)? On top of that, I also have the durability of the Hellbat (which took punches from Darkseid, a JLA teambuster) and Stark's armor (which has taken nukes at 2% power and taken hits from Thor and Hulk, both casual planet busters).
Again, even if you could get past the Cold Field (you really can't)
I never stated I'm going to break it. What I can and will do however though is either;
have buu turn you into candy
Silver surfer scramble you're insides
Hit you hard enough so you're human/alien parts are affected as-well
Also the hell bat instance hardly adds to you're cause, considering batman threw a few hits at darkseid, and then after getting hit about once and absorbing his omega beams through a crystal and knocking him back, he retreated. And we also have the stark armor on-top of our on multi-planetary level durability.
2. Enter my dimension and speedblitz
Nope, you're frozen. No particle movement.
Not frozen for reasons already stated.
3. Unfreeze with Surfer's powers
Not an option for reasons already discussed. Essentially because Surfer would be under the effects himself, and because he's never truly thawed someone from absolute zero.
Two assumptions here. One that surfer is unable to use his abilities while inert, and that because you interpret a scan falsely, the feat is essentially irrelevant. Both of which are incorrect for reasons explained above.
4. Transmutation
I believe that if transmutation was a viable option against adamantium, Thor or Surfer would have transmuted Ultron by now. Yet, they haven't, calling this argument into question. In addition it's completely out of character for Surfer to lead with this move.
And then you keep comparing you're-self to ultron at his strongest. And then proceed with the over-used, and completely weak argument. Do you even take in to consideration the fact ultron isn't entirely made up adamantium and it only makes out his exterior most of the time? Or the fact its unknown if Silver surfer can or can not transmute it in the first place as I believe he hasn't tried to do so before.
I personally think surfer, post annihilation is capable of doing so considering thanos, who albeit had the IG was capable of doing so, showing it's not immune to transmutation. Especially given the fact transmutation is one of surfers main abilities
6. Blast us
The moment Surfer does, he gets de-powered by draining. Goku and the other DBZ dudes can't move because of absolute zero (assuming you have them at all).
Not necessary considering surfers ability to mess with you internally, through you're natural organs or machinery
Gallery
And before you begin; If the blast surfer sends at you disables you're tech/abilties, including the ones enabling you to absorb his power, it's not going to have ill affects on him.
I'd also like to point out the DBZ dudes suits can all emit EMP's which disable you're tech as-well.
How we win
Surfer counters pretty much all you're strategies
Even with the supposed cold area, if its even made that big at all, only slows us down, and we still are fast enough to blitz
We are free to turn you into candy, something buu would do at the start of a fight
Can atomize you and effect you from the inside
Are durable enough to handle most of you're attacks
@nighthunder: All right before I start let me just say that this has been a blast, mad respect to ya mate for debating prowess
but I'm still going to win :D
Round 3
Rebuttals
Using assumptive logic here, inferring that I was having silver surfer completely mind-wipe them, when I stated He'd erase their memories of goku in order for them to assist us. And then you haven't countered the fact he's as equally capable of creating illusions to make them fight with us. Nor did anything you just say debunk the other statements I made
Perhaps I was too equivocal about this, allow me to clarify.
The point I made was that you need to show Silver Surfer making his enemies fight for him in the manner that you described. If you can't show him doing such a thing it makes it out of character and thus inapplicable.
This is insufficient, you need to show him doing it.
With pleasure
Here surfer evolves the abilities of a young man.Just as he is able to do so here, he's capable of evolving goku and co.'s own abilities further as-well.
You'd also have to burn until you put all of us down - a task you would be hard-pressed to accomplish considering our adamantium durability.
Also, the brightness of 10 suns would blind Goku, Buu, and the rest, but not us because we have visors that protect us. So congratulations, you just took care of everyone on your own team for me.
Everyone here has a ridiculous amount of stamina.
Here's the thing, all of them have dealt with and are capable of doing an attack called the solar flare, and are equally as capable of shielding their eyes from it. To add on to the fact silver surfer is capable of communicating threw telepathy, he could easily earn them before he's about to do it.
A solar flare is not the same thing as the brightness of ten suns. A single sun has can give off many solar flares; they're a fraction of a single sun's power and brightness. You're suggesting that he burn with the brightness of ten. Would this not blind them?
Since you have not debunked this taking care of you're little shadows I'm going to assume their taken care of through the debate.
To the contrary, the light that you provide would not erase the shadows as you're suggesting. A solar flare or the brightness of ten suns would mean that there is light, and the presence of our teams would mean that there is somewhere the light does not strike and thus, there are still shadows. Would you temporarily stop their onslaught? Perhaps. But all I need is a second or so for Piper's recordings to take effect.
My apologies, but you've never shown anything to suggest that Surfer's cosmic awareness is so specific.
I actually have. Silver surfers cosmic awareness located gladiators specific weakness. I'd need proof it //wouldn't// tell him the same here.
Sure. Annihilators 2, Surfer is unable to sense who Dredd was working with and what was going on. As I said before, there's no definitive proof that he was using cosmic awareness in that instance; he could have previously knew Gladiator's weakness from his own experiences or observations of Kallark, or he could have simply asked around or studied the Shi'ar. You'd need to definitively prove that it was cosmic awareness.
In that issue Shadow Thief was defeated when Hawkman and Hawkgirl used the mystical Nth Metal to KO Shadow Thief. Nth Metal is a metal with special properties, no ordinary metal was able to defeat the shadows.
Considering everyone on my team have phyiscal attributes above hawkman and hawkgirl, their equally capable of K.O'ing him. The phyiscal force of a planet alone would hit through the adamantium though not break it and K.O them from the inside.
The reason that Hawkman and Hawkgirl were able to KO him is because of the properties of their Nth Metal, not because of their physical strength. A few pages prior, it was shown that Nth Metal could dissipate the shadows. On the other hand, Wonder Woman, Flash, and Superman among others were wholly unable to affect the shadows this way because the shadows by their very nature cannot be defeated.
1. Yes, I do, considering he's fallen for it twice already. You see, Panther's tech was copied from Doom's cosmic energy draining chair, which Doom tricked Surfer into entering in Fantastic Four 155-157. So why did Surfer not use his cosmic awareness in the manner you are suggesting against Panther, when he had already fallen for it once?
2. How are you going to disable the weapon? You do realize that thanks to the Combin-ator, the weapon is part of our bodies. There's literally nothing you can do to suppress it, unless you transmute us (and I'll go over why that won't work). In addition his cosmic awareness is not nearly as specific as you claim, so I fail to see how he is capable of such an act.
Did Surfer truly fire the blast beforehand, or was T'Challa's device "sucking" the power out of him in the form of a blast? And Stark/Doofenshmirtz/Batman could easily modify it to make it work over longer ranges or without having to be blasted, considering that Stark's armor can absorb energy.
3. Except you have no means of doing that. I have no "weaponry" in the sense of a device that I use against you, I have powers. The combin-ator combines me with my suit, making us a single sentient being. Meaning it's not going to be Surfer's go-to move anymore.
Then you you're-self are under-selling silver surfers cosmic awareness and intelligence. The second time the device was used in an entirely different manner so I don't see why you're comparing the two.
The silver surfer has shown on multiple accounts the ability to disable machinery through the power cosmic. I'd also like to note you didn't state you're fully machine, only they you're fused to them, implying a sort of android fashion. He has no need to transmute you when he can hurt you internally or disable you're tech
Surfer fired a blast at BP and it started sucking the power. Thus surfer states he can't stop.
You still have machinery in and out-side of you. Surfer is capable of disable said machinery, as is everyone on my team as a few on starks suit com equipped with EM emitters. If you still have human insides? Surfer can and will drop you by messing with you internally as a means of ending the fight quickly. Machines inside? Surfer is capable of disabling. Pick one.
The absorb surfer strat fails due to you not realizing it takes surfer to blast BP willingly in order for him to suck it out. Another thing to consider is this is pre-annihilation surfer.
1. You're definitely highballing the cosmic awareness. I've cited many instances in which Surfer's cosmic awareness could have and should have taken effect, but didn't. I've also cited an instance in which Norrin explicitly states that his awareness is imprecise.
You can call it PIS, but if it happens consistently then it's going to happen here.
I have already stated that Stark/Wayne/Doof would modify the absorber to integrate it into our suits, which then combine with our bodies. So we're using it in a different way as well.
2. We're not fully machine, but the machines are a part of us. If Surfer can disable technnology in the manner you claim, why didn't he do it against Ikon (who was tech based) or Dredd? Has he ever use these internal attacks as an opening move? Hell, he has he ever used internal attacks, period? I have the Annihilators Volume 1 and it seems like nearly everything you Surfer is going to do here will be out of character.
3. Do you realize the concentration of machines in the area? Just to exhibit it, here's a video on how many machines the Gemino Curse can make.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQcF1t1mnyc
You see, in less a minute, a few goblets and doubloons fill an entire room. Imagine what will happen in 2 days.
Then when we take into account that the dimension we're going into (the Labyrinth) is an enclosed corridor, we'll definitely be able to cover it all. And considering that Doom's chair required Surfer to be in proximity, you will get drained.
Not to mention, in your transmutation scans Surfer was only able to manipulate matter with a blast, meaning he will be drained if he tries it.
Here is what your scans show:
1. Surfer atomizing a lion-like creature
2. Surfer reconfiguring some tech (inapplicable considering the powers are now built-in)
3. Not entirely sure what's going on here, but whatever it is required a blast, meaning that we'll definitively be able to absorb your cosmic energy if you try it.
4. Surfer dismantling some body armor, after a fight
5. Surfer transmuting a rod. However in this one Surfer needed to shoot the rod with eye beams to do so; however, in this case he will be unable to do it because a blast would mean no more cosmic energy and thus powerless Silver Surfer.
You're claiming that Silver Surfer would use his cosmic awareness to see that matter manipulation is a weakness, but also that he'd go for it right off the bat in character, and turn his opponents into candy or snow or w/e.
This is not going to happen considering that Surfer has NEVER transmuted a person straight off the bat and also because his cosmic awareness isn't precise enough.
I'd also like to bring up a few instances in which Silver Surfer could have used matter manipulation to quell a threat but opted not to because it ISN'T IN CHARACTER FOR HIM.
I'm not claiming any of that. You stated surfer isn't going to use his matter manipulation in combat and that's something I refuted. Nice try at a red herring though.
In order for matter manipulation to take effect, you'd have to transmute me directly, turning my body into something. He's only done this once, against an ANIMAL, so I fail to see why he'd do it here.
In addition, considering that we have the powers of the monsters of Tartarus, this includes Typhon who has control over his own molecular structure. So sorry, but there isn't a scenario in which transmutation would be viable.
I'd also like to bring up a few instances in which Silver Surfer could have used matter manipulation to quell a threat but opted not to because it ISN'T IN CHARACTER FOR HIM.
vs. Ultron
vs. Thor
vs. Adam Warlock
vs. Red Hulk
Each time, Silver Surfer lost where he could have been defeated via matter manipulation. I specifically point to his battles with Thor (he lost to Odinson THREE TIMES) and his fight with Ultron. Against these foes, a simple wave of the hand would have made Ultron a very angry slice of cheese or Thor cement, yet Surfer didn't do it. Even if it's CIS, it's still in character.
The other possibility is that it wasn't because he wouldn't do it in character but because each opponent is immune to transmutation, in which case my characters would be too because they are made up of the same stuff as Ultron.
The old; "If he could have, he would have!" argument that rarely factors in the plot going on in the actually incidents. Lets address each and every one of these
Vs ultron. Im assuming you're referencing where he shot a beam at him like the others? Well the fight wasn't simply Silver surfer vs Ultron, if it were it's generally agreed upon silver surfer would win. However the plot called for Silver surfer to join with everyone and fire his own beam.
Vs the thor. You do realize their latest and only fight after silver surfers upgrade ended in a draw correct? And then you realize that silver surfer honestly has no real reason to use his matter manip to turn thor into cement when he's capable of fighting him without it. I'm also not certain if matter manipulation even works on thor
Adam warlock, I haven't the foggiest of idea if which fight you're talking about?
You seriously can't be referencing Rulk beating down an inexperienced, younger surfer are you?
The, "If he coulda, he woulda" argument is pretty weak, you shouldn't base you're entire argument upon it my friend.
It's not weak at all; I can bring up even more instances in which transmutation and cosmic awareness should have won him the fight, yet he opted not to use them.
Annihilators 1 against Ikon
Annihilators 2 against Dredd (the first time)
Annihilators 2 when a black sun had arrived that was the source of the Wraiths' powers, yet Surfer didn't transmute it
Annihilators 3 against Wraith Queen
Are all those plot as well?
Regarding Adam Warlock... (this is taken from @serrure)
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he short circuits Quasar (someone with near identical powers to a lantern) and the same to Surfer
he dodges Silver Surfer and then gets his hand around his throat. he literally could have ended the Surfers life via Physicals alone
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So why didn't Surfer use his cosmic awareness to evade, or teleport?
Here's what you're claiming Surfer can do:
Sense that my team's in another dimension
Sense that Shadow Thief would use Shadows against him
Sense that transmutation is one of my weaknesses
Sense that there's a cold field up
And here are the feats you show:
Surfer sensing life aboard a ship
Surfer telling someone that the person in question is not a good enough shot to hit the target (this doesn't necessarily show precog; you need to show him explicitly using cosmic awareness to do something as specifically as you claim he can)
Surfer telling Gladiator that he knows Kallark's weakness (which may or may not be precog, it could just be general knowledge gleaned by studying or by asking around, or telepathy)
That is a huge discrepancy, and far too large to ignore. And your plan wholly relies on this dubious cosmic awareness.
Assumptive logic won't fly here mate.
In actuality, Im saying.
Silver surfers cosmic awareness has alerted him of beings from across dimensions. Surfer sensed and tracked mephisto across dimensions
Considering the 2nd dimension isn't at all very different from the 1st one other than Heinz actually becoming successful, it honestly shouldn't be a very hard time for Surfer to traverse to.
SS's CA can and has alerted him of weaknesses, and it will tell him if taking out ST will take out the shadows
The gladiator feat alone proves this
Considering he's encountered it before, there is no reason he shouldn't sense it
1. We see in Annihilators 2 that Surfer's awareness is imprecise (he says so himself). If your best feats are sensing the location of a person, then Surfer's cosmic awareness isn't impressive at all, certainly not good enough to do everything you say it can, which includes detecting weaknesses, detecting exactly what we are and what we're going to do etc.
2. Oh, I wasn't referring to the second dimension at all. I was referring to the Labyrinth. The Labyrinth is a mystical maze, protected by the spells of Gods.
3. No, you showed him being aware of Gladiator's weakness. This is NOT the same of detecting the weakness of a completely random opponent who Surfer has no prior knowledge of. Like I said before, it's entirely possible that Surfer had studied the Shi'ar beforehand, or that he had asked around or something of the sort. You need to prove that in the scan you cite, Surfer was definitively using cosmic awareness. If you can't do that none of your statements fly.
Atomizing won't work because adamantium is immune to it.
I don't believe Surfer's ever shrunk someone to sub-atomic sizes to fight right off the bat. And besides Doof has made devices that make one grow exponentially in size, and if you recall, we have the powers of all his machines. Also Doof is no stranger to sub-atomic level, considering once he made a device that shrunk anything down to the size of atoms.
Constricting me in my armor??? What armor? I have a body that's adamantium/lutetium/vibranium/Nth Metal. No armor.
And Surfer's energy reserves, the power cosmic, far exceed that of a star. I really don't know why you think absorbing a star will amp you in any way.
Proof? IIRC Adamantium is merely extremely resistant to physical and enegy attacks, not sub-atomic ones such as atomizing.
A mistake on my part, my apologies. However, we have all the powers of the monsters in the Percy Jackson universe, including Porphyrion, who's taken bloodlusted Jason Grace's lightning before. This is important because Jason, when bloodlusted, turns his enemies into ions, as shown against the Roman Legion in Book 5. If you'd like the quotes I can get you them.
Ah, then a huge mistake on my own part as I assumed you're merely wearing the suits as armor.
Simple adding really. If surfer already posses the ability to contain enough energy as a star, absorbing one will only amp him further. And then you have the fact not a single member of you're team posses the durability, even with the suits to tank star level attacks. Nevermind the hell-bat suit withstanding the heat of the sun, I'm talking about
Now, energy attacks are cool, but I have a way to COMPLETELY nullify them, which I will get to later in the post.
Buu's too busy fighting his own Shadow.
No, he's really not thanks to either one of goku and co.'s solar flare, or silver surfer.
Even if he weren't my team has absolute control over their own molecules thanks to the powers of certain monsters of the Percy Jackson universe being absorbed into them. I'll get into detail with this later.
You do realize that Ultron took the blasts of MULTIPLE planet busters without even a dent? Not to mention, you haven't even proved your characters can move in the cold field, much less blast me.
You do realize that Energy durability =/= Physical durability, right?
Yes, I do, but Adamantium has also laughed off hits from Hulk and Thor.
You're literally relying on characters you didn't pay for to counter this. It's not telepathy at all, considering she doesn't use her mind, but her voice. It's not magic either, as there has been no indication of such in the show (although some users are sorceresses). More like a cosmic superpower, entirely on its own from both magic and telepathy.
Piper has literally used it on gods, and primal entities. What hope do you have?
And speaking of Buu, what if we were to use our telepathy to rekindle Buu's/Vegeta's/Broly's memory of hating Goku? All we'd have to do is transfer the episode of DBZ into his brain. And considering that in episode 50 Doof essentially gave himself planetary level telepathy which he used to wipe the minds of people, and has also made mind control devices, it shouldn't be much of a problem.
Then you'd be fighting not only us but Buu, Vegeta, Broly, their shadows, and your shadows.
Using her voice to induce actions from others; By description it sounds like hypnotic suggestion through her voice, which falls under the category of telepathy. A link to super-power wiki if you don't understand mate; http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Hypnosis
Not even superpower wiki classifies it under telepathy. It says it falls under mind control, of which hypnosis and telepathy are two distinct sub-categories. Piper isn't a telepath at all; her voice is different from both telepathy and magic. Think a lesser version of the Anti-Life Equation.
Because
That requires telepathy, not a smart move considering while you're thinking, we're still moving faster than you can react to
Something not even in-character for anyone on you're team to do
Vegeta would fight for goku without the TP, and it's not something we're using on him in the first place.
Still this is kinda cheap... should I have Piper call her mother who can blink you out of existence in her true form?
Let's not argue this any more, please. It's frivolous at this point.
And you think Batman, Doof, and Stark can't increase the range? Snart doesn't even have a college education in the New 52, and yet knows and understands the inner workings of the gun (I think he may have built it but I'm not sure). Out of a single strand of Asgadian DNA, Stark has made a cyborg Thor with the ability to make AOE Lightning attacks, and you think that he can't toggle the range of an already-functional cold gun?
Not to mention, we have a nigh-infinite amount of suits because of the Gemino Curse. So we could flood the area with them and have each make a separate field, make one larger cold field, if the aforementioned modification didn't work.
Though you didn't say you increased the range in you're prep at all, and merely built the gun, in the new 52 the cold field is worse than it as pre-52, and only slows down the flash so snart can go 1v1 vs him, and for a while snart had the cold powers himself, not the gun. Pre 52 it was much better but again, has only shown to be created around him and near him as a sort of shield. To say you can increase the range is purely speculative however not something entirely impossible.
I have Composite Cold.
Observe how big of an AOE Cold's tech made during Blackest Night:
Here it freezes Black Lantern Flash and the entirety of Iron Heights.
And here Cold freezes an entire city.
Besides, an enclosed corridor like the Labyrinth, and with so many bots, we'll certainly be able to encase it all in an absolute zero field.
Are you insinuating that your characters are as fast as Flash? Do I really have to bring up Human Race or other Flash feats that put them FAR above Goku and Surfer? If you want to carry on that ridiculous notion, I will oblige, but for now I will pretend you never said such a blasphemous thing.
Snart doesn't say "like" Flash, he says Flash. This is because of the Flash's connection to the Speed Force and the properties that the Speed Force brings. Copmpletely inert = completely inert.
An appeal to the stone fallacy there.
How so?
To begin with, snart indeed says of a flash. Meaning something moving at the same or similar speeds of him.
No, a Flash meaning a member of the Flash family. Barry Allen, Bart Allen, Wally West etc. And yes, if you were as fast as a Flash you'd be able to move in the Cold Field.
If you're talking about the pre-52 cold field where wally is flash, I'd like to point out wally rarely if at all goes faster than light vs the rouges so I doubt he's talking about speeds like that.In the new 52, barry hardly breaches that speed, and has only done so twice IIRC to reach the speed-force.
Using Composite, but primarily Pre-52 feats.
Wally doesn't go top speed against the Rogues, but he has to against Cold because if he didn't he'd be frozen like everybody else.
And then you have my team of FTL'ers especially silver surfer
Except, Wally and Barry are each many times FTL. In Human Race Wally was able to run from one end of the universe to the other before instant teleportation.
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Let's analyze this instance.
Surfer was not under the effects of the field at the time. We'll know which way you're coming from thanks to the Oculus and we'll make a gigantic cold field around that area, so as soon as you enter, you will be rendered inert. Your feat is deemed inapplicable in my first bullet point.
Absolute zero is a fragile thing. A fraction of a degree makes the difference between no particle movement, and particle movement. In the scans we observe that Ronan, the only thing keeping the field intact, was incapacitated by Surfer before the field was dispersed. This means that the field was already feeling the affects of the heat around it, and shifted. Even the slightest shift starts particle movement once more. This means that Surfer only heated it up to a bearable temperature, he did not completely counter absolute zero as you claim.
Surfer had to blast the cold field; if he blasts ours he'll be powerless.
I believe I have debunked this thoroughly.
No way to do that considering you have not increased the cold fields range in you're prep. And then I doubt the oculus can track someone traversing dimensions though feel free to prove me wrong on that one. The feat is entirely applicable as you're assuming he'll need to move somewhat in order to remove the cold field
Completely presumptive thinking here. If you notice I left out most of the battle and showed surfer dispersing the cold field. You assuming the absolute zero field and ronan being inter-related, when its most logical to infer that they were not considering surfer had to remove it instead of it flat out disperrssing upon ronan being K.O'ed
I think you don't under-stand the nature of the the power-absorber my friend. Surfer had to fire a blast at BP in order for it to work. As in surfer isn't blasting you're team, but the cold field. Considering you're team are only generating this supposed massive cold field and not the field itself, destroying the field will have no ill results for us
1. I don't need to increase their range, in such a small area with so many bots the cold field (which already does have city level range) will encase the entire place in a cold field.
The Oculus has seen other dimensions before; once a love interest of the main character was trapped in a random dimension and they found him with the Oculus.
It's not an assumption that he'll need to move, it's a fact. In the scan you posted he only removed the field by waving his hand to blast it.
2. Would you do yourself the favor of reading your own scans, so as to not look silly when I point out your misrepresentation of them?
Observe that Ronan fires it, that he's the one that created the field. An absolute zero field isn't going to stay at absolute zero when the temperature around it is warmer, thus it's clear that Ronan was the one holding it in place. Unless of course you think that the field was sentient and/or self-sustaining, of which there was no evidence.
It didn't disperse because the effects still lingered. Let me give you an example. If I have a freezer and ice cream in it, the ice cream is frozen. If I turn the freezer off, the ice cream is still frozen for a while before it melts, because it takes time for it to go to melting temperature.
That's exactly what happened here. Ronan was the freezer, the cold field the ice cream. Ronan was holding the cold field together; Surfer took him out and the ice cream (cold field) started to adapt back to the environment. Surfer then proceeded to heat up the ice cream.
Temperature is just whether particles are moving or not. It is FAR easier to increase the movement of a particle in motion than it is to start movement. Newton's First Law - an object at rest tends to stay at rest. Surfer heating molecules from low temperatures to bearable ones requires exponentially less energy than it does to completely start the molecules.
We know that it relied on Ronan because Absolute Zero cannot sustain itself for even an instant - temperature naturally reacts to the temperature around it.
3. Surfer had to fire a blast, but Doom was able to do it just by Surfer being in the chair's proximity and in the chair itself and that's what our tech includes. You can't destroy the field without destroying the machines that generate it (us) which you can only do with a blast that would take away your power cosmic and give it to my team.
At you're best, the cold field slows us down a bit like it does flash.
The Cold Field, as Snart says in the scan YOU posted, slows Flash, who's hundreds of thousands of times the speed of light thanks to Human Race, to a crawl. You're NOWHERE close to that.
At the worst there's no cold field to begin with.
I've shown why there will be.
Honestly, you may not even have the speed advantage here, although speed is inconsequential when taking the cold field into consideration.
Batman's Insider suit gives the user limited access to the Speed Force.
Considering the fact katana in the very scan you post tags batman, we very well have the speed advantage. I had hoped this would be an un-contested fact.
Katana tags Batman, yes, but that was BEFORE he activated acceleration mode which is what gives him Speed Force (see the second last panel).
You may have the speed advantage, but it's not by an insurmountable amount and it's especially insignificant given the Cold Field.
In addition, since we have all the powers of pegasi, we're lightspeed.
“Percy, don’t,” Annabeth groaned. Her shirt was soaked with blood. I had to get her out of here.
“Blackjack!” I yelled.
As fast as light, the pegasus swooped down and clamped his teeth on the straps of Annabeth’s armor. They soared away over the river before the enemy could even react.
So, we're really not that much slower than you are.
Durability
You really think you can break a combination of Adamantium (see Ultron), Vibranium, and Nth Metal (which took punches from Superman)? On top of that, I also have the durability of the Hellbat (which took punches from Darkseid, a JLA teambuster) and Stark's armor (which has taken nukes at 2% power and taken hits from Thor and Hulk, both casual planet busters).
Again, even if you could get past the Cold Field (you really can't)
I never stated I'm going to break it. What I can and will do however though is either;
have buu turn you into candy
Silver surfer scramble you're insides
Hit you hard enough so you're human/alien parts are affected as-well
Also the hell bat instance hardly adds to you're cause, considering batman threw a few hits at darkseid, and then after getting hit about once and absorbing his omega beams through a crystal and knocking him back, he retreated. And we also have the stark armor on-top of our on multi-planetary level durability.
1. Won't work for reasons I'll get into later
2. This is ridiculous. Surfer never does this in character.
3. This doesn't make sense. I'm made of the alloy of super-metals and I have an armor of them for skin. It'd be like trying to punch a human hard enough so that their heart would be affected, it just doesn't work.
2. Enter my dimension and speedblitz
Nope, you're frozen. No particle movement.
Not frozen for reasons already stated.
You are frozen for reasons already stated.
3. Unfreeze with Surfer's powers
Not an option for reasons already discussed. Essentially because Surfer would be under the effects himself, and because he's never truly thawed someone from absolute zero.
Two assumptions here. One that surfer is unable to use his abilities while inert, and that because you interpret a scan falsely, the feat is essentially irrelevant. Both of which are incorrect for reasons explained above.
Nothing can move while inert; that's literally the definition of inert.
How did I interpret it falsely?
4. Transmutation
I believe that if transmutation was a viable option against adamantium, Thor or Surfer would have transmuted Ultron by now. Yet, they haven't, calling this argument into question. In addition it's completely out of character for Surfer to lead with this move.
And then you keep comparing you're-self to ultron at his strongest. And then proceed with the over-used, and completely weak argument. Do you even take in to consideration the fact ultron isn't entirely made up adamantium and it only makes out his exterior most of the time? Or the fact its unknown if Silver surfer can or can not transmute it in the first place as I believe he hasn't tried to do so before.
I personally think surfer, post annihilation is capable of doing so considering thanos, who albeit had the IG was capable of doing so, showing it's not immune to transmutation. Especially given the fact transmutation is one of surfers main abilities
You've shown him transmuting a sentient being directly ONCE in combat, and that too was an ANIMAL. Morals on Surfer doesn't transmute people. He didn't do it to Ikon, Dredd, Wraith Queen, Thor, Ultron, Adam Warlock and do I even have to keep going?
Thanos with the IG is a reality warper. His transmutation feats don't count. And anyway, I have Typhon's powers which grant me immunity to transmutation.
6. Blast us
The moment Surfer does, he gets de-powered by draining. Goku and the other DBZ dudes can't move because of absolute zero (assuming you have them at all).
Not necessary considering surfers ability to mess with you internally, through you're natural organs or machinery
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And before you begin; If the blast surfer sends at you disables you're tech/abilties, including the ones enabling you to absorb his power, it's not going to have ill affects on him.
Let's break down these feats.
Not sure what's going on there (text is small) but I don't think that's in combat
Not combat. In addition by the dialogue he just cut off the power, like an EMP, which won't work here (I'll post a scan below this)
This was a neural blast; "fake pain" as Surfer says. Nothing to say that it will disrupt my tech.
I'd also like to point out the DBZ dudes suits can all emit EMP's which disable you're tech as-well.
Iron Man hasn't been defeated by EMPs for years.
Now, you may try to say that your team is significantly faster than I am, so they could EMP before Iron Man applies the anti-EMP procedure. However, this is flawed because no matter how fast your team is, your armor's speed will still be the same.
I, on the other hand, have the speed of my armor and body equalized, because we're one and the same. So we can get up EMPs at lightspeed.
Surfer counters pretty much all you're strategies
He counters a grand total of zero.
Even with the supposed cold area, if its even made that big at all, only slows us down, and we still are fast enough to blitz
This is not true at all. Snart has said and shown many times that Flash is the only being fast enough to work past his Cold feats. If you want to claim to be faster than Flash let me know because I have feats that render that statement blasphemous.
We are free to turn you into candy, something buu would do at the start of a fight
Nope, scroll past these spoilers and you'll see why.
Can atomize you and effect you from the inside
Atomizing won't work because we have the power of Porphyrion who was not affected by ionization. Surfer doesn't use inside attacks in character.
Are durable enough to handle most of you're attacks
Durability doesn't affect any of my attacks. Cold field means you can't even function, so your shadows are free to beat you up. In addition, all we have to do is hold you long enough for the recordings to play, and they're only one word ("STOP!", then after you stop, "KILL YOURSELF"). You haven't shown any resistance to voice-induced manipulation.
Let the games continue
Yes, let them, it's been fun.
Let's Talk About Monsters
Refer to steps 7 and 11 if you want proof that I did this during my prep.
Essentially what I did was take the monsters from Tartarus, and absorb them. This gives me many superpowers and LOTS of versatility, but the only ones I'm going to talk about in this section is Typhon.
As the father of all monsters, Typhon possesses a host of abilities that will GREATLY help me in this debate, primarily transmutation.
You see, Typhon is the primary enemy of the gods, and he took all their attacks (including transmutation) with ease. He also possesses the standard abilities of a good which give HIM transmutation, though that doesn't matter in the context of this debate.
What matters is that with his power, we're immune to transmutation.
And also I have the powers of the Hydra, who can regenerate from decapacitation, so even if your energy attacks do harm me we can regenerate right after.
Lutetium
Now, there's a reason I chose Paladin with Composite Batman feats instead of simply Composite Batman.
It's because of his gear. Paladin carries a metal called Lutetium.
Starbreaker is a casual Justice League buster in his larva state. Here, he was in his ADULT state, making him beyond his weaker larva stage. He tanked blows from Superman without too much trouble, and was unaffected by Vixen (who hurt Despero). He was a being made of pure energy who had previously drained Dr. Light (who also has the power of a star).
And yet Lutetium disperses his energy, one shotting him.
Thanks to our prep (step two to be precise), we have all the properties of Lutetium.
Meaning any energy attacks will be dispersed instantaneously.
Further Debunking Your Win Conditions
Vs Transmutation
With the power of Typhon, we're immune
Vs Ionization
Thanks to the abilities of Porphyrion, who took blasts from Jason Grace (who ionizes people), this won't work either.
Vs Inside Attacks
I've never seen Surfer do this in character.
Vs Energy Attacks
Dispersed by Lutetium
Vs Cosmic Awareness
Surfer's cosmic awareness has failed on multiple occasions and even he has admitted that it's imprecise.
@thenewbluebeetle007: Awesome, and same to you. Honestly bro you're almost up there with some of the best debaters i've seen.
While you're finishing that up, I'll tag some people who might be interested in watching this, whether they are knowledgeable on the characters here being used or just like seeing a good debate, something this definitely is.
@thenewbluebeetle007: Awesome, and same to you. Honestly bro you're almost up there with some of the best debaters i've seen.
While you're finishing that up, I'll tag some people who might be interested in watching this, whether they are knowledgeable on the characters here being used or just like seeing a good debate, something this definitely is.
haha thanks for that, you too
and nobody knows Nagi Luna at all, and not many know Piper, Doof or Shadow Thief either.
@thenewbluebeetle007: Oi we're all ready pretty far ahead. Im thinking after I reply, if you wanna get another one in and we can do a sort of summarizing posts we can go to votes in like a day or so :D
Great god. I wasn't able to get a post out yesterday and I apologise for that. IRL stuff has take my attention but I will def try my hardest to get a post sunday
Great god. I wasn't able to get a post out yesterday and I apologise for that. IRL stuff has take my attention but I will def try my hardest to get a post sunday
You're a nighthunder alt?
And don't worry about it, we have at least a week.
@thenewbluebeetle007: I can't actually put how sorry I am into words. The monitor for the computer I use broke and Now i have only my kindle. Id honestly type up a response on it if it wouldnt be ridiculously short and I hadnt already typed half of my reponse on the computer. I can't really subject you to more waiting so your more than good to go into votes my friend, again completely sorry about the invonvience.
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