Hercules VS. Wonder Woman

Post Deleted.

Alpha says:

"Gambler says:

"Sounds good. I'm still not sold that Herc is more durable, but lets say he is. It wouldn't be to the point where it was a major advantage. I don't believe he's stronger either. Diana's strength is equal to that of Superman, I don't believe Hercules is even in the ball park. And no matter what, the speed differential is something that cant be overlooked. She's a better fighter with more moves in her arsenal. She's not going to stand there and trade shots with Hercules simply for honor. "

I don't think she's a better fighter. Even on this site, Hercules is listed to have centuries of fighting experience. As far as the durability, I base this on that she needs her braclets to deflect attacks that Hercules wouldn't. As far as strength, she is empowered by other greek gods that Hercules has always been said to be more powerful than. "

You keep saying that he's stronger then the Greek Gods. In the Marvel U perhaps, but not the DCU, and no, there not the same. The Zeus from the Marvel U is not the Zeus from the DCU. In fact there's a DCU Hercules so that comparison isn't going to work. Thats why I used Superman, cause its repeatedly stated that her strength is on Superman's level. Diana's durability to PROJECTILES (arrows, and bullets) isn't as high as Hercules. But to blunt force trauma (like being punched or kicked) its extremely high.

You can look at Ms. Invisibles post, in response to the fighting experience.

Gambler says:

"Alpha says:

"Gambler says:

"Sounds good. I'm still not sold that Herc is more durable, but lets say he is. It wouldn't be to the point where it was a major advantage. I don't believe he's stronger either. Diana's strength is equal to that of Superman, I don't believe Hercules is even in the ball park. And no matter what, the speed differential is something that cant be overlooked. She's a better fighter with more moves in her arsenal. She's not going to stand there and trade shots with Hercules simply for honor. "

I don't think she's a better fighter. Even on this site, Hercules is listed to have centuries of fighting experience. As far as the durability, I base this on that she needs her braclets to deflect attacks that Hercules wouldn't. As far as strength, she is empowered by other greek gods that Hercules has always been said to be more powerful than. "

You keep saying that he's stronger then the Greek Gods. In the Marvel U perhaps, but not the DCU, and no, there not the same. The Zeus from the Marvel U is not the Zeus from the DCU. In fact there's a DCU Hercules so that comparison isn't going to work. Thats why I used Superman, cause its repeatedly stated that her strength is on Superman's level. Diana's durability to **PROJECTILES** (arrows, and bullets) isn't as high as Hercules. But to blunt force trauma (like being punched or kicked) its extremely high. You can look at Ms. Invisibles post, in response to the fighting experience."

Ok, I will stay off the "Hercules stronger than other gods" thing. That's based on my opinion of history. I never seen it stated that her strength was on Supes level, only that it was only surpassed by Superman and Cap Marvel. But I could be wrong. I can't see a amazonian human being a better fighter than a demi-god who has lived for centuries doing nothing but battle.

Ms. Invisible says:

"Alpha says:

"Let's both stop making assumptions and go off of what this started off as: Hercules vs Wonder Woman (no weapons mentioned) I feel Herc would win because he is more durable. Also, as I stated earlier, Wonder Woman has been empowered by gods that Hercules has always been noted to be more powerful. "

Durability can only take you that far. Wonder Woman has mastered more than just Amazonian ways of fighting. She joined the JLA and there she learned from other members and knows *heaps* of fighting styles which I don't think a lot of people do realise. Hercules may be more durable, but it's a little-known fact that Wonder Woman's brain is like a sponge. She'll absorb any tidbits of knowledge she finds useful and is a quick study. This is the lady that learned the basics of English in just a few hours and mastered it in a few weeks just by talking to native talkers of English and by books. The reason why she was chosen to be Wonder Woman was because she beat her sisters in a dueling matches because she studied how they fought and this is how she knew their weaknesses. Mind you, these are the ladies that were much older than her seeing as she was the youngest on Paradise Island, and would obviously have much more fighting experience than her. Point is, if Hercules has the durability to withstand Wonder Woman, this is only going to benefit her in the long run. The longer they fight, the more she'll learn about Hercules and will find a way to slip Hercules up. "

I can't see a amazonian human being a better fighter than a demi-god who has lived for centuries doing nothing but battle.

Alpha says:

"I can't see a amazonian human being a better fighter than a demi-god who has lived for centuries doing nothing but battle. "

Which is why I said that she is able to adapt to new situations. She can think on her feet and that's a reason why she's a great fighter. But she is not just a human being. She was given the gifts of goddesses as well and was deemed immortal, until she became an emissary and travelled America.

Ms. Invisible says:

"Alpha says:

"I can't see a amazonian human being a better fighter than a demi-god who has lived for centuries doing nothing but battle. "

Which is why I said that she is able to adapt to new situations. She can think on her feet and that's a reason why she's a great fighter. But she is not just a human being. She was given the gifts of goddesses as well and was deemed immortal, until she became an emissary and travelled America. "

I see your point, but wouldn't a fighter who has been around for centuries learn to adapt as well? And would have learned more fighting styles in his long life?

Alpha says:

"Ok, I will stay off the "Hercules stronger than other gods" thing. That's based on my opinion of history. I never seen it stated that her strength was on Supes level, only that it was only surpassed by Superman and Cap Marvel. But I could be wrong. I can't see a amazonian human being a better fighter than a demi-god who has lived for centuries doing nothing but battle. "

Its stated here on her Vine page, and I already showed you the scans of her fight with Superman.

Gambler says:

"Alpha says:

" Ok, I will stay off the "Hercules stronger than other gods" thing. That's based on my opinion of history. I never seen it stated that her strength was on Supes level, only that it was only surpassed by Superman and Cap Marvel. But I could be wrong. I can't see a amazonian human being a better fighter than a demi-god who has lived for centuries doing nothing but battle. "

Its stated here on her Vine page, and I already showed you the scans of her fight with Superman."

Ok. I see that noted here on the vine. Can't see the scan. Don't know why. I'm @ work, maybe blocked for some reason. I have all the recent books with them fighting, which is it? (Jim Lee's Superman or the Sacrafice run)

I know in Sacrafice, Supes broke her arm easily. That's my basis for her inferior durability.

Alpha says:

"Ms. Invisible says:

"Alpha says:

"I can't see a amazonian human being a better fighter than a demi-god who has lived for centuries doing nothing but battle. "

Which is why I said that she is able to adapt to new situations. She can think on her feet and that's a reason why she's a great fighter. But she is not just a human being. She was given the gifts of goddesses as well and was deemed immortal, until she became an emissary and travelled America. "

I see your point, but wouldn't a fighter who has been around for centuries learn to adapt as well? And would have learned more fighting styles in his long life? "

Only so much fighting experience can give Hercules the edge he needs in this fight. So he may have had centuries of fighting experience, but this is Wonder Woman who is much younger than her sisters, and beat them at fighting. Mind you, the older Amazons were also around for about 3000 years, and she could only gain more from there on. Hercules may have had more fighting experience due to his life span (has Hercules been living longer than Wonder Woman?), but how much could someone really learn from there on? There is no doubt that any fights he encounters will be repeats. There's only so much he could be offered; it's like history repeating itself.

Ms. Invisible says:

"Alpha says:

"Ms. Invisible says:

"Alpha says:

"I can't see a amazonian human being a better fighter than a demi-god who has lived for centuries doing nothing but battle. "

Which is why I said that she is able to adapt to new situations. She can think on her feet and that's a reason why she's a great fighter. But she is not just a human being. She was given the gifts of goddesses as well and was deemed immortal, until she became an emissary and travelled America. "

I see your point, but wouldn't a fighter who has been around for centuries learn to adapt as well? And would have learned more fighting styles in his long life? "

Only so much fighting experience can give Hercules the edge he needs in this fight. So he may have had centuries of fighting experience, but this is Wonder Woman who is much younger than her sisters, and beat *them* at fighting. Mind you, the older Amazons were also around for about 3000 years, and she could only gain more from there on. Hercules may have had more fighting experience due to his life span (has Hercules been living longer than Wonder Woman?), but how much could someone really learn from there on? There is no doubt that any fights he encounters will be repeats. There's only so much he could be offered; it's like history repeating itself."

But Herc is still active in today's time line so it wouldn't be repeat history. And Wonder Woman has always been more than her amazonian sisters, starting from her origin.

Alpha says:

"Gambler says:

"Alpha says:

" Ok, I will stay off the "Hercules stronger than other gods" thing. That's based on my opinion of history. I never seen it stated that her strength was on Supes level, only that it was only surpassed by Superman and Cap Marvel. But I could be wrong. I can't see a amazonian human being a better fighter than a demi-god who has lived for centuries doing nothing but battle. "

Its stated here on her Vine page, and I already showed you the scans of her fight with Superman."

Ok. I see that noted here on the vine. Can't see the scan. Don't know why. I'm @ work, maybe blocked for some reason. I have all the recent books with them fighting, which is it? (Jim Lee's Superman or the Sacrafice run)

I know in Sacrafice, Supes broke her arm easily. That's my basis for her inferior durability. "

Thats the one. The Sacrifice run. He blasted her with heat vision, cloaked her with a haymaker that sent her from outer space, crashing back to earth in seconds, AND, broker her wrist. And what did she do? Kept fighting and delivered a kick that sent him into the ground so hard it dug up the concrete. And when she decided it was time to end, she dropped his ass. I don't about you, but to me that shows just how durably she really is.

There's another scan I posted of her coming out of molten iron, without any burns.

(The melting point of iron, in case you're curious, is about 2,500 degrees Fahrenheit, or 1370 Celsius.)

Gambler says:

"Alpha says:

"Gambler says:

"Alpha says:

" Ok, I will stay off the "Hercules stronger than other gods" thing. That's based on my opinion of history. I never seen it stated that her strength was on Supes level, only that it was only surpassed by Superman and Cap Marvel. But I could be wrong. I can't see a amazonian human being a better fighter than a demi-god who has lived for centuries doing nothing but battle. "

Its stated here on her Vine page, and I already showed you the scans of her fight with Superman."

Ok. I see that noted here on the vine. Can't see the scan. Don't know why. I'm @ work, maybe blocked for some reason. I have all the recent books with them fighting, which is it? (Jim Lee's Superman or the Sacrafice run) I know in Sacrafice, Supes broke her arm easily. That's my basis for her inferior durability. "

Thats the one. The Sacrifice run. He blasted her with heat vision, cloaked her with a haymaker that sent her from outer space, crashing back to earth in seconds, AND, broker her wrist. And what did she do? Kept fighting and delivered a kick that sent him into the ground so hard it dug up the concrete. And when she decided it was time to end, she dropped his ass. I don't about you, but to me that shows just how durably she really is. There's another scan I posted of her coming out of molten iron, without any burns. (The melting point of iron, in case you're curious, is about 2,500 degrees Fahrenheit, or 1370 Celsius.)"

Didn't say she wasn't tough, just that she can be broken more easily than Herc. And if she can withstand that amount of heat, why bother using her braclets to deflect Supes vision?

I know the Marvel/DCU crossovers aren't canon, but as someone said earlier in this thread, WW handled Hercules pretty easily in that.

Alpha says:

"Gambler says:

"Alpha says:

"Gambler says:

"Alpha says:

" Ok, I will stay off the "Hercules stronger than other gods" thing. That's based on my opinion of history. I never seen it stated that her strength was on Supes level, only that it was only surpassed by Superman and Cap Marvel. But I could be wrong. I can't see a amazonian human being a better fighter than a demi-god who has lived for centuries doing nothing but battle. "

Its stated here on her Vine page, and I already showed you the scans of her fight with Superman."

Ok. I see that noted here on the vine. Can't see the scan. Don't know why. I'm @ work, maybe blocked for some reason. I have all the recent books with them fighting, which is it? (Jim Lee's Superman or the Sacrafice run) I know in Sacrafice, Supes broke her arm easily. That's my basis for her inferior durability. "

Thats the one. The Sacrifice run. He blasted her with heat vision, cloaked her with a haymaker that sent her from outer space, crashing back to earth in seconds, AND, broker her wrist. And what did she do? Kept fighting and delivered a kick that sent him into the ground so hard it dug up the concrete. And when she decided it was time to end, she dropped his ass. I don't about you, but to me that shows just how durably she really is. There's another scan I posted of her coming out of molten iron, without any burns. (The melting point of iron, in case you're curious, is about 2,500 degrees Fahrenheit, or 1370 Celsius.)"

Didn't say she wasn't tough, just that she can be broken more easily than Herc. And if she can withstand that amount of heat, why bother using her braclets to deflect Supes vision? "

Apparently Supes heat vision is hotter then 2,500 degrees. Thats the logical conclusion :P

Gambler says:

"Alpha says:

"Gambler says:

"Alpha says:

"Gambler says:

"Alpha says:

" Ok, I will stay off the "Hercules stronger than other gods" thing. That's based on my opinion of history. I never seen it stated that her strength was on Supes level, only that it was only surpassed by Superman and Cap Marvel. But I could be wrong. I can't see a amazonian human being a better fighter than a demi-god who has lived for centuries doing nothing but battle. "

Its stated here on her Vine page, and I already showed you the scans of her fight with Superman."

Ok. I see that noted here on the vine. Can't see the scan. Don't know why. I'm @ work, maybe blocked for some reason. I have all the recent books with them fighting, which is it? (Jim Lee's Superman or the Sacrafice run) I know in Sacrafice, Supes broke her arm easily. That's my basis for her inferior durability. "

Thats the one. The Sacrifice run. He blasted her with heat vision, cloaked her with a haymaker that sent her from outer space, crashing back to earth in seconds, AND, broker her wrist. And what did she do? Kept fighting and delivered a kick that sent him into the ground so hard it dug up the concrete. And when she decided it was time to end, she dropped his ass. I don't about you, but to me that shows just how durably she really is. There's another scan I posted of her coming out of molten iron, without any burns. (The melting point of iron, in case you're curious, is about 2,500 degrees Fahrenheit, or 1370 Celsius.)"

Didn't say she wasn't tough, just that she can be broken more easily than Herc. And if she can withstand that amount of heat, why bother using her braclets to deflect Supes vision? "

Apparently Supes heat vision is hotter then 2,500 degrees. Thats the logical conclusion :P"

But she is depicted as deflecting all projectile. Even those arms firing lasers, which can't be hotter than Supes vision.

Ms. Invisible says:

"Eternal Chaos says:

"Gambler says:

"Seriously, just cause she has Super Strength and Super Speed how does that make her the female Superman?"

She was created to be like Superman, that's why she's so strong. I think it was to give off the whole "Women can do whatever Guys can do" thing, I forgot what it was, but I recall reading it here and seeing a special on it."

Yay, time for a Wonder Woman history lesson, kids! She was never created to be *like* Superman, though part of your sentence may be correct with the "women can do whatever guys can do". What she was created for is a real mystery. On one side, you have people who say she was created because her creator, William Moulton Marston (WMM) was a feminist. His type of feminism was one where he thought women were superior to males, but he also believed that everyone should be subservient once in a while to keep peace in this world. Some people say she was created just for the younger girls out there, because she was created during the late 30s, early 40s and back then, they had the whole "women are equal too!" thing going on. WMM's views were considered very liberating back then and also very controversial. On the other hand, you have people who say she was created only because he loved strong women and liked to be dominated by them. You can see a lot of subtexts in the Golden Age stories of Wonder Woman about dominance and submission. I think the reason why she is compared to Superman so many times is because of what Gambler says. She has the same strength and speed as him, so she must be created just like him or whatever, but with some reading, she's actually like a complicated character eg. the stuff I just explained. I think there's more about her to be discovered but we just don't know it yet. THE MORE YOU KNOW! [staaaarrrr]: WMM was also the inventor of the lie detector.
Post Edited:2008-01-26 02:50:36"

yeah there's almost too much tie me up tie me down stuff in the older wonder woman comics but great post ms i!

Alpha says:

"Gambler says:

"Alpha says:

"Gambler says:

"Alpha says:

"Gambler says:

"Alpha says:

" Ok, I will stay off the "Hercules stronger than other gods" thing. That's based on my opinion of history. I never seen it stated that her strength was on Supes level, only that it was only surpassed by Superman and Cap Marvel. But I could be wrong. I can't see a amazonian human being a better fighter than a demi-god who has lived for centuries doing nothing but battle. "

Its stated here on her Vine page, and I already showed you the scans of her fight with Superman."

Ok. I see that noted here on the vine. Can't see the scan. Don't know why. I'm @ work, maybe blocked for some reason. I have all the recent books with them fighting, which is it? (Jim Lee's Superman or the Sacrafice run) I know in Sacrafice, Supes broke her arm easily. That's my basis for her inferior durability. "

Thats the one. The Sacrifice run. He blasted her with heat vision, cloaked her with a haymaker that sent her from outer space, crashing back to earth in seconds, AND, broker her wrist. And what did she do? Kept fighting and delivered a kick that sent him into the ground so hard it dug up the concrete. And when she decided it was time to end, she dropped his ass. I don't about you, but to me that shows just how durably she really is. There's another scan I posted of her coming out of molten iron, without any burns. (The melting point of iron, in case you're curious, is about 2,500 degrees Fahrenheit, or 1370 Celsius.)"

Didn't say she wasn't tough, just that she can be broken more easily than Herc. And if she can withstand that amount of heat, why bother using her braclets to deflect Supes vision? "

Apparently Supes heat vision is hotter then 2,500 degrees. Thats the logical conclusion :P"

But she is depicted as deflecting all projectile. Even those arms firing lasers, which can't be hotter than Supes vision. "

I'm kinda lost. She uses her bracelets to deflect Superman's heat vision, cause its HOT enough to harm her. If she's deflecting a heat source, one most assume that it is hot enough to hurt her. Clearly anything thats 2,500 degrees or less she can handle.

Gambler says:

"Alpha says:

"Gambler says:

"Alpha says:

"Gambler says:

"Alpha says:

"Gambler says:

"Alpha says:

" Ok, I will stay off the "Hercules stronger than other gods" thing. That's based on my opinion of history. I never seen it stated that her strength was on Supes level, only that it was only surpassed by Superman and Cap Marvel. But I could be wrong. I can't see a amazonian human being a better fighter than a demi-god who has lived for centuries doing nothing but battle. "

Its stated here on her Vine page, and I already showed you the scans of her fight with Superman."

Ok. I see that noted here on the vine. Can't see the scan. Don't know why. I'm @ work, maybe blocked for some reason. I have all the recent books with them fighting, which is it? (Jim Lee's Superman or the Sacrafice run) I know in Sacrafice, Supes broke her arm easily. That's my basis for her inferior durability. "

Thats the one. The Sacrifice run. He blasted her with heat vision, cloaked her with a haymaker that sent her from outer space, crashing back to earth in seconds, AND, broker her wrist. And what did she do? Kept fighting and delivered a kick that sent him into the ground so hard it dug up the concrete. And when she decided it was time to end, she dropped his ass. I don't about you, but to me that shows just how durably she really is. There's another scan I posted of her coming out of molten iron, without any burns. (The melting point of iron, in case you're curious, is about 2,500 degrees Fahrenheit, or 1370 Celsius.)"

Didn't say she wasn't tough, just that she can be broken more easily than Herc. And if she can withstand that amount of heat, why bother using her braclets to deflect Supes vision? "

Apparently Supes heat vision is hotter then 2,500 degrees. Thats the logical conclusion :P"

But she is depicted as deflecting all projectile. Even those arms firing lasers, which can't be hotter than Supes vision. "

I'm kinda lost. She uses her bracelets to deflect Superman's heat vision, cause its **HOT** enough to harm her. If she's deflecting a heat source, one most assume that it is hot enough to hurt her. Clearly anything thats 2,500 degrees or less she can handle."

Could be clearly that the writer was bad. Any other examples of her being able to withstand that kinda heat? If so, I will admit defeat in this debate.

Alpha says:

"Could be clearly that the writer was bad. Any other examples of her being able to withstand that kinda heat? If so, I will admit defeat in this debate. "

Could be bad writing or editorial mistakes.

I think you are seriously giving less credit to Hercules, Hercules is the god of strenght, I don't see how Wonder Woman can beat him. She could probably have beaten him a few years back but the Hercules (Marvel) of today is stronger than Wonder Woman.

Im not saying WW would lose this fight but i believe Hercules is stronger than her, and as one person pointed out before, Hercules takes on Hulk and Thor and she could not take them on for any length of time. She took on Superman and was kicking his butt but she was never able to come close to KOing Supes so im pretty sure she's not in his league powerwise, but Hercules is or pretty close, and Diana has not proven to be as durabile as Herc either.

"I think you are seriously giving less credit to Hercules, Hercules is the god of strenght, I don't see how Wonder Woman can beat him. She could probably have beaten him a few years back but the Hercules (Marvel) of today is stronger than Wonder Woman."

No it was not writen but Herc fights Hulk, and Thor as regular opponents.

"No it was not writen but Herc fights Hulk, and Thor as regular opponents."

For example I don't see WW standing  chance against Hulk or Thor for any long amount of time in a brawl as well as Superman, anytime she faces the real Doomsday and (not the clones she fought) she gets tossed around like a nat. Doomsday can't treat Superman like that, and I don't see him treating Herc like that either, at least Herc would be able to hang with him for some length of time before he loses.  

"

I know the Marvel/DCU crossovers aren't canon, but as someone said earlier in this thread, WW handled Hercules pretty easily in that.

"

Did they discuss the actual battles of the JLA and Avengers and so forth.

Did they discuss the actual battles of the JLA and Avengers and so forth.

"

Did they discuss the actual battles of the JLA and Avengers and so forth.

"

Of course ive read it. I just want to know if its really considered cannon since both companys don't use it.

"Of course ive read it. I just want to know if its really considered cannon since both companys don't use it."

Which titles ive never seen it referenced in marvel. Ebony Bishop said that in Trinity #7 they reference it. And i have seen the cosmic egg appear in another JLA issue before, but ive never seen it in marvel at all.

"Which titles ive never seen it referenced in marvel. Ebony Bishop said that in Trinity #7 they reference it. And i have seen the cosmic egg appear in another JLA issue before, but ive never seen it in marvel at all."

Hercules versus Donna Troy or Big Barda is a far more interesting battle.  Wonder Woman versus Hercules is fairly lopsided.  Wonder Woman wins.

Wonder Woman no contest, wouldn't even break a sweat.

Hercules has been confrimed to be a Eternal... could that change things?

from the disney movie?

from the disney movie?

Hercules may be stronger then her. But he certainlty isn't faster. When I say stronger I mean he could actually hold earth on his back. Wonder woman needed the help or Superman, and MM to just pull earth.

WW wins.

Wonder Woman is more skilled in hand to hand combat than Hercules.
If you made them equal in all other categories, she would win handily.

Herc isn't more durable than her, either.  Atlas, Hyde and the Wrecking Crew could not have beaten her.

Lived longer and not learned from it at all.  I'm older than my roommate but he takes martial arts classes and I don't.  He's the more skilled fighter.

Wonder Woman could also take hits from WWH.

"Wonder Woman is more skilled in hand to hand combat than Hercules.
If you made them equal in all other categories, she would win handily.

Herc isn't more durable than her, either.  Atlas, Hyde and the Wrecking Crew could not have beaten her."

Herc.

"Herc."

Wonder Woman. No contest.

"Wonder Woman. No contest."