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Posted by jayskee (1905 posts) - - Show Bio


fight is in a bar. this is current Hercules and he has his shield(which can't turn wolverine to stone) his sword and his bow with unlimited arrows. start from 30 feet away. morals on.

 

 
 

 

#1 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

Hercules is far more skilled and still has a strength advantage on Wolverine.


Herc wins.
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#2 Edited by Zaiyan (461 posts) - - Show Bio

Herc grabs Wolverines claws and makes Logan chop his own head off. Or Herc wrestles with Wolveirne and the fight ends with Herc chucking Wolverine all the way from Earth into the Sun.

Hercules stomps

Morals on? Herc wins in a less brutal gore fashion, maybe bashes Logan's brain around like WWH did. Might take Herc a little more time to turn Logan's brain into mush.

#3 Edited by God_Spawn (37374 posts) - - Show Bio

I thought current herc was mortal and depowered?

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#4 Posted by God_Spawn (37374 posts) - - Show Bio

Screw it. Going with Logan.

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#5 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio
@god_spawn: Yes he's severely de-powered but he still has over 3000 years of fighting skills and experience and he is peak human, maybe slightly stronger. 
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#6 Posted by flamingmuffin (387 posts) - - Show Bio

pre-depowered herc would do to wolverine the same that WWHulk did

#7 Posted by God_Spawn (37374 posts) - - Show Bio
@Deranged Midget said:
" @god_spawn: Yes he's severely de-powered but he still has over 3000 years of fighting skills and experience and he is peak human, maybe slightly stronger.  "
I don't think 3000 years of experience really means much in comics. It's the same logic with Thor, yet guys like Steve Rogers have better skill feats than Thor and Wolverine is a better fighter than cap.  Even at normal power Herc would have a hard time even laying a hand on Logan based on feats. Now that he's down to street level, it should be even harder.
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#8 Posted by Dro (941 posts) - - Show Bio
@Deranged Midget said:
" @god_spawn: Yes he's severely de-powered but he still has over 3000 years of fighting skills and experience and he is peak human, maybe slightly stronger.  "
This. Herc is probably one of the best fighters around.
#9 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio
@god_spawn: I think it does. When Hercules wasn't de-powered and he was pre Chaos War, he was one of the strongest guys around but many could match him. Thor, Hulk, Thing and Sentry could all give him a fight. But we've seen Hercules trump Thor by using a blood choke, he's submitted Ben Grimm, and slowed down World War Hulk while staying on the defensive. We never saw more of his countless years of experience due to his dependancy on his strength, but as of late we should see more of what he could do as he has to cope with being a mortal. I have no problem seeing Hercules pin down Wolverine. If Cap could do it, Hercules could do it.
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#10 Posted by Jake Fury (18167 posts) - - Show Bio

comparing Herc's fighting feats to Captain America is laughable.
#11 Posted by Jake Fury (18167 posts) - - Show Bio

Wolverine wins.
#12 Posted by PrinceIMC (5421 posts) - - Show Bio

I love Hercules and all but I think Logan has this one. Hercules will still be getting used to his new power set and in the past he's taken many hits because he knew he could survive it. It'll take some time for him to change his actual fighting style to avoid getting hit.

#13 Posted by TheGoldenOne (38849 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jake Fury said:
" Wolverine wins. "
#14 Posted by SC (12724 posts) - - Show Bio

Infinite arrows should mean Herc wins in my opinion. Infinite arrows is crazy. I bet Herc could penetrate Wolverine enough times to slow him down, so that he could run up, bowl him over with the shield, and then tickle his feet till he submits! True story bro. 

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#15 Posted by Kallarkz (3303 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC said:
" Infinite arrows should mean Herc wins in my opinion. Infinite arrows is crazy. I bet Herc could penetrate Wolverine enough times to slow him down, so that he could run up, bowl him over with the shield, and then tickle his feet till he submits! True story bro.  "
lol
#16 Posted by God_Spawn (37374 posts) - - Show Bio
@Deranged Midget said:
" @god_spawn: I think it does. When Hercules wasn't de-powered and he was pre Chaos War, he was one of the strongest guys around but many could match him. Thor, Hulk, Thing and Sentry could all give him a fight. But we've seen Hercules trump Thor by using a blood choke, he's submitted Ben Grimm, and slowed down World War Hulk while staying on the defensive. We never saw more of his countless years of experience due to his dependancy on his strength, but as of late we should see more of what he could do as he has to cope with being a mortal. I have no problem seeing Hercules pin down Wolverine. If Cap could do it, Hercules could do it. "
And none of those guys you mentioned have fighting skills on the level of Captain America let alone Wolverine.Thing is a street fighter if anything he's a good boxer and that's it. Sentry basically freestyles it and overpowers his enemies and combined with his speed Hercules shouldnt really be able to even touch him. Hulk same argument, he just overpowers his enemies i dont count it as skill to trade blows with someone who is near equal in strength and durability. Age=/= skill.  Even at his normal level due to feats he shouldnt even lay a hand on Wolverine and now that he is depowered it's gonna be harder. Potentially could he beat him under these conditions? Yes i see no problem there. As of right now can he? No, it's too early to tell and right now just doesnt have the feats to back him up.
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#17 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio
@god_spawn: Yes I agree on most of your points, but Hercules (if the writer choses so) has the potential to show his experience and skill thus creating feats capable of coming close to or matching Wolverine.
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#18 Posted by God_Spawn (37374 posts) - - Show Bio
@Deranged Midget:  I can agree to that, he just lacks the current feats, but given his background he has the potential.
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#19 Edited by SlimJ87D (9354 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Hercules sword is more damaging than Wolverines claws. You can't beat magic enchantments against a street leveler. 


The arrows also have poisons that wound Gods. Gods are immune to all human diseases. This would hurt Wolverine and his healing factor for sure. 
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#20 Edited by TheSpiritStalker (2013 posts) - - Show Bio

This is weird but I have this comic called contest of champions 2 and it was mentioned that wolverine defeated hercules in h2h combat wtf hercules would use wolverine to clean zeus floor or something equally hilarious

#21 Posted by D3athstroke (3909 posts) - - Show Bio

Herc Stomp

#22 Posted by Da_Moscow_Gaurd (58 posts) - - Show Bio

i say that Hercules would win
#23 Posted by God_Spawn (37374 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheSpiritStalker: Contest of Champions 2 is non-canon.
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#24 Posted by PowerHerc (81700 posts) - - Show Bio
@Deranged Midget said:
"

                    Hercules is far more skilled and still has a strength advantage on Wolverine.

Herc wins.


                   

                "

Zackly!
#25 Posted by HolySerpent (12463 posts) - - Show Bio
@PowerHerc said:
" @Deranged Midget said:
"

                    Hercules is far more skilled and still has a strength advantage on Wolverine.

Herc wins.


                   

                "
Zackly! "
#26 Posted by SlimJ87D (9354 posts) - - Show Bio

Hercules wins,


His Shield is as strong as Logan's bones, his sword is enchanted and his arrows have poisons that can kill gods. 
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#27 Edited by God_Spawn (37374 posts) - - Show Bio

Nothing in the OP says anything about his Hydra dipped arrows, it just says his bow with unlimited arrows nothing specific so i doubt the god killing arrows were ,meant to be used in the first place.

Regular arrows Wolverine wins
If these are the hydra blood arrows, its a spite thread basically.

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#28 Posted by SlimJ87D (9354 posts) - - Show Bio
@god_spawn said:
" Nothing in the OP says anything about his Hydra dipped arrows, it just says his bow with unlimited arrows nothing specific so i doubt the god killing arrows were ,meant to be used in the first place. Wolverine wins. "
Well without the arrows, I'm going to reserve my answer until I know more about the sword and its properties. 
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#29 Edited by God_Spawn (37374 posts) - - Show Bio
@SlimJ87D said:

" @god_spawn said:

" Nothing in the OP says anything about his Hydra dipped arrows, it just says his bow with unlimited arrows nothing specific so i doubt the god killing arrows were ,meant to be used in the first place. Wolverine wins. "
Well without the arrows, I'm going to reserve my answer until I know more about the sword and its properties.  "
If its anything magical that grants him like some extraordinary abilities, i see it as a cheat hence why Jayskee took away the stone stare for the shield. I;m just goin with its an adamantine sword and shield and regular arrows.
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#30 Edited by SlimJ87D (9354 posts) - - Show Bio
@god_spawn said:

" @SlimJ87D said:

" @god_spawn said:

" Nothing in the OP says anything about his Hydra dipped arrows, it just says his bow with unlimited arrows nothing specific so i doubt the god killing arrows were ,meant to be used in the first place. Wolverine wins. "
Well without the arrows, I'm going to reserve my answer until I know more about the sword and its properties.  "
If its anything magical that grants him like some extraordinary abilities, i see it as a cheat hence why Jayskee took away the stone stare. I;m just goin with its an adamantine sword and shield and regular arrows. "
About cheating, Hercules is severely handicapped here. He is only has peak strength. Wolverine has a skeleton that supports above peak strength, healing factor, unbreakable bones, and razor sharp weapons that can't be taken away from him. Anything that is cut off will grow back in place on his bones no matter what. To cap Hercules in a fight against a man that is practically invincible is unfair in my book. I'm trying to find a balance for him here and make this fight reasonable. Sure Hercules has an unbreakable shield and sword but those can leave him at anytime. 

So if, and only if (we don't know yet). his sword has magical enchantments, then more power to him, it'd be more fair. 
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#31 Posted by God_Spawn (37374 posts) - - Show Bio
@SlimJ87D said:
" @god_spawn said:

" @SlimJ87D said:

" @god_spawn said:

" Nothing in the OP says anything about his Hydra dipped arrows, it just says his bow with unlimited arrows nothing specific so i doubt the god killing arrows were ,meant to be used in the first place. Wolverine wins. "
Well without the arrows, I'm going to reserve my answer until I know more about the sword and its properties.  "
If its anything magical that grants him like some extraordinary abilities, i see it as a cheat hence why Jayskee took away the stone stare. I;m just goin with its an adamantine sword and shield and regular arrows. "
About cheating, Hercules is severely handicapped here. He is only has peak strength. Wolverine has a skeleton that supports above peak strength, healing factor, unbreakable bones, and razor sharp weapons that can't be taken away from him. Anything that is cut off will grow back in place on his bones no matter what. To cap Hercules in a fight against a man that is practically invincible is unfair in my book. I'm trying to find a balance for him here and make this fight reasonable. Sure Hercules has an unbreakable shield and sword but those can leave him at anytime.  So if, and only if (we don't know yet). his sword has magical enchantments, then more power to him, it'd be more fair.  "
I see it differently. I'm talking about anything similar to the shield considering it's a godly sword it might have some cheat ability like the stone stare shield. If anything the fight starts rather even IMO. Hercules has seen Wolverine fight plenty of times, whereas this side of Hercules, Wolverine has never seen. If Logan treats him like he usually treats someone in a fight and lunges, it definitely gives Hercules the opening. He has the equipment needed to put wolverine down, has the knowledge to  and possibly the background in skill level but just lacks feats for now.
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#32 Posted by SlimJ87D (9354 posts) - - Show Bio
@god_spawn said:
" @SlimJ87D said:
" @god_spawn said:

" @SlimJ87D said:

" @god_spawn said:

" Nothing in the OP says anything about his Hydra dipped arrows, it just says his bow with unlimited arrows nothing specific so i doubt the god killing arrows were ,meant to be used in the first place. Wolverine wins. "
Well without the arrows, I'm going to reserve my answer until I know more about the sword and its properties.  "
If its anything magical that grants him like some extraordinary abilities, i see it as a cheat hence why Jayskee took away the stone stare. I;m just goin with its an adamantine sword and shield and regular arrows. "
About cheating, Hercules is severely handicapped here. He is only has peak strength. Wolverine has a skeleton that supports above peak strength, healing factor, unbreakable bones, and razor sharp weapons that can't be taken away from him. Anything that is cut off will grow back in place on his bones no matter what. To cap Hercules in a fight against a man that is practically invincible is unfair in my book. I'm trying to find a balance for him here and make this fight reasonable. Sure Hercules has an unbreakable shield and sword but those can leave him at anytime.  So if, and only if (we don't know yet). his sword has magical enchantments, then more power to him, it'd be more fair.  "
I see it differently. I'm talking about anything similar to the shield considering it's a godly sword it might have some cheat ability like the stone stare shield. If anything the fight starts rather even IMO. Hercules has seen Wolverine fight plenty of times, whereas this side of Hercules, Wolverine has never seen. If Logan treats him like he usually treats someone in a fight and lunges, it definitely gives Hercules the opening. He has the equipment needed to put wolverine down, has the knowledge to  and possibly the background in skill level but just lacks feats for now. "
Feats are lacking I agree with that. The cheat with the shield I understand. The sword, I am just hoping it is capable of cutting at a micro level or something, that wouldn't be too much of a cheat.

I'll still have to hold off on my answer. But as it seems evidence does give it to Wolverine. 
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#33 Edited by alexandrinus (428 posts) - - Show Bio


Hercules may win this but it it will be a bloody figth. Hercules has the tools to defeat Wolverine, that's for sure (a magical sword, and a magical shield - even though he can not use the shield's powers it would still be unbreakeable). By the way (I'm not sure of what I'm about to say), but if these weapons were made by the gods, both the shield and sword are made of Adamantine and not Adamantium. Adamantine is actually harder and more durable than Adamantium.

This figth all will be decided by figthing skills and even though Wolverine is a great figther (almost at cap's level but not better) Hercules is pretty good as well and  has thousands of years of experience not only in hand to hand but also with any type of Ancient greek Weapons (includind swords). So I say this match is pretty even and anyone of them can claim victory. All it takes is the one who makes the first mistake.

#34 Posted by PowerHerc (81700 posts) - - Show Bio
@alexandrinus said:
"

                   


Hercules may win this but it it will be a bloody figth. Hercules has the tools to defeat Wolverine, that's for sure (a magical sword, and a magical shield - even though he can not use the shield's powers it would still be unbreakeable). By the way (I'm not sure of what I'm about to say), but if these weapons were made by the gods, both the shield and sword are made of Adamantine and not Adamantium. Adamantine is actually harder and more durable than Adamantium.


This figth all will be decided by figthing skills and even though Wolverine is a great figther (almost at cap's level but not better) Hercules is pretty good as well and  has thousands of years of experience not only in hand to hand but also with any type of Ancient greek Weapons (includind swords). So I say this match is pretty even and anyone of them can claim victory. All it takes is the one who makes the first mistake.



                   

                "

Sounds reasonable to me.
#35 Posted by Ramtha07 (1291 posts) - - Show Bio


Anyone remember this;

 

 

 

Classic.

 

A depowered Herc versus Wolverine, unbreakable bones healing factor and all ... ? Probably a good fight. But if Herc takes a hit he's going to die. I think it's rather like a Captain America versus Wolverine battle. Good times. I too have to wait to understand what kinds of properties the sword has.

 

Logan should take it though... either that or they go for a brewskie.

#36 Posted by Ramtha07 (1291 posts) - - Show Bio
@alexandrinus:
Actually, Marvel has Captain America at level 6 and Wolverine at level 7 in the fighting skills department.
#37 Posted by alexandrinus (428 posts) - - Show Bio
@Ramtha07: 

Marvel claims many things that have proven to be wrong in all ways. They say one thing writers write something different. Cap has much more figthing feats and agility than wolverine (manly because most of the times Wolverine just takes all blows by trusting in his own healing factor).  I think Cap is better than Wolverine but that's just my opinion.
   
#38 Posted by Ramtha07 (1291 posts) - - Show Bio
@alexandrinus said:
"@Ramtha07: Marvel claims many things that have proven to be wrong in all ways. They say one thing writers write something different. Cap has much more figthing feats and agility than wolverine (manly because most of the times Wolverine just takes all blows by trusting in his own healing factor).  I think Cap is better than Wolverine but that's just my opinion.    "


I would disagree with the fighting feat comment. Wolverine has more than his share, and more than a few that trump much of what I've seen Cap do. And I do have the scans to prove it. But this is a very, very debatible topic nonetheless. Cap is awesome and an incredible fighter to be sure. Marvel canon simply has Wolverine better than Cap, and Wolverine has many, many feats that make this a very respectable comment to be making...

 

Still don't see how a depowered Herc could end up winning here...

#39 Posted by SlimJ87D (9354 posts) - - Show Bio
@Ramtha07 said:
" @alexandrinus: Actually, Marvel has Captain America at level 6 and Wolverine at level 7 in the fighting skills department. "
A 6 and 7 in fighting skill isn't too far off. It's just mastering all forms of combat vs mastering 5 to 10. Someone once said it's not how much you know them but how well you know them.

Captain America and even Bucky were rating 7s for years. I don't know why Marvel decided to change it, maybe they realized that Cap spent most of his time with Americans and there is no way he was exposed to other forms of martial arts, not as much as Wolverine who has lived for years.

Bucky on the other hand should have remained a 7. He did help start the red room and  department X. 
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#40 Edited by alexandrinus (428 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ramtha07:
Well i'm basing my comments on feats both have againts the same opponents. I keep seeing Wolverine taking hit after hit and Captain America simply doges them (getting out of the way).
The figths both had againts the Hulk for example (in the 616 Universe only). Wolverine can't doge one single punch ???  Both times (that i know of) that cap faced the Hulk, the Hulk landed only one to no punch to Cap. If Wolverine is so agille as Marvel claims, why isn't he written that way? All i'm saying is that he SHOULD be written that way.

 

But I think should be a discussion to another topic.

 

And don't get me wrong, Wolverine is one of my favorite characters, but I still think Hercules could take this in 5/10. Hercules as the equipament to match him (both the shield and sword are unbrekeable and are harder than Adamantium - it's claimed both weapons were made by Heaphesteus so the weapons must be made of Adamantine) and the experience to use it. Wolverine is an incredible figther and that's why I say both have their chances and the loser will be the one to make the firts mistake. 

#41 Posted by alexandrinus (428 posts) - - Show Bio

@SlimJ87D:
You migth be rigth. But I still think cap should be an 7 or higher if possible. Of all the characters I know I only know a few wich I think could actually outmatch cap in fighting skills and agility. Gamora and maybe Mantis. C'mon, even Spider.man got mangled a dozen of times by cap. And I consider him to be the most agile character in the 616 Universe (please, someone correct me if I'm wrong).

Maybe cap. did spend most of his time with Americans, but besides his military training he also had training in the most forms of fighting tecnics and mastered avery single one of them. So I think that "his time with Americans" isn't that relevant. That's Why I keep saying that Marvel caims many things only to be changed later.

 

But then again, this is a discussion for another topic.

#42 Posted by karrob (4278 posts) - - Show Bio

Id say Herc 7/10...

#43 Posted by SlimJ87D (9354 posts) - - Show Bio
@alexandrinus said:
"

@SlimJ87D:
You migth be rigth. But I still think cap should be an 7 or higher if possible. Of all the characters I know I only know a few wich I think could actually outmatch cap in fighting skills and agility. Gamora and maybe Mantis. C'mon, even Spider.man got mangled a dozen of times by cap. And I consider him to be the most agile character in the 616 Universe (please, someone correct me if I'm wrong).

Maybe cap. did spend most of his time with Americans, but besides his military training he also had training in the most forms of fighting tecnics and mastered avery single one of them. So I think that "his time with Americans" isn't that relevant. That's Why I keep saying that Marvel caims many things only to be changed later.

 

But then again, this is a discussion for another topic.

"
Well 7 is max meaning mastering ALL FORMS of combat. I doubt even Wolverine has mastered all forms of combat. If anything Wolverine should be at a 6, and only omnipotent combat gods should be a 7.

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#44 Posted by God_Spawn (37374 posts) - - Show Bio

Wolverine still takes it.

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#45 Posted by Ramtha07 (1291 posts) - - Show Bio
@SlimJ87D said:
" @Ramtha07 said:
" @alexandrinus: Actually, Marvel has Captain America at level 6 and Wolverine at level 7 in the fighting skills department. "
A 6 and 7 in fighting skill isn't too far off. It's just mastering all forms of combat vs mastering 5 to 10. Someone once said it's not how much you know them but how well you know them.

Captain America and even Bucky were rating 7s for years. I don't know why Marvel decided to change it, maybe they realized that Cap spent most of his time with Americans and there is no way he was exposed to other forms of martial arts, not as much as Wolverine who has lived for years.

Bucky on the other hand should have remained a 7. He did help start the red room and  department X. 
"

I agree that Cap should be a 7. I really do. In fact, the arguments been made the serum helps him soak combat knowledge extremely quickly (not quite like Taskmaster, but not too far off). Making the lack of years compared to Logan a moot point. Fact is, Marvel has him at 6 presently. Cap can contain Wolverine, but I don't think, if written reasonably, he'd have the clout to put Logan out before he himself gets taken out. And this is how I feel what would happen to a depowered Herc as well... unless that sword does some awesome mumbo jumbo!
#46 Posted by Susanoo (5909 posts) - - Show Bio
@god_spawn said:
"

                    @Deranged Midget said:
"

                    @god_spawn: Yes he's severely de-powered but he still has over 3000 years of fighting skills and experience and he is peak human, maybe slightly stronger. 

                   

                "
I don't think 3000 years of experience really means much in comics. It's the same logic with Thor, yet guys like Steve Rogers have better skill feats than Thor and Wolverine is a better fighter than cap.  Even at normal power Herc would have a hard time even laying a hand on Logan based on feats. Now that he's down to street level, it should be even harder.

                   

                "

Thor beaten Cap in a fight when he became human level. Hercules for the win here but not easily.
#47 Posted by God_Spawn (37374 posts) - - Show Bio
@Susanoo: Do you have the scans for it? I've read about it like months ago, forgot about it and it hasnt crossed my mind since.
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#48 Posted by God_Spawn (37374 posts) - - Show Bio
@Susanoo: And i disagree, Hercules does not have the battle feats that put him on Logan's level. And even when he was a god, his speed and reflex feats are not on par with Wolverine so they still shouldnt be when he is a street leveler. And the fact Wolverine consistently fights more skilled credible opponents as half of his rogue gallery are near top level MA fighters in the first place, not just a bunch brawling powerhouses Hercules is used to. The only way i see Hercules winning is if he is smart to know Wolverine would just lunge, but if Logan plays it smart he should win the majority due to actual skilled feats to back him up.

PS.  Thor beat Cap once is just a one time showing that i know of. It could go the other way next time since Cap has shown better h2h feats on a regular basis, and has a wider variety in his training regiment. But that was a different debate and Vance destroyed my opposition when i argued in favor of Thor.
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#49 Edited by venomoushatred1001 (12334 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jake Fury said:

"Wolverine wins. "


 

#50 Posted by Ramtha07 (1291 posts) - - Show Bio

@alexandrinus:
Yes, Captain America is often portrayed dodging or avoiding what Wolverine does not. This does not mean Wolverine cannot. Understand, it's a question of adopted styles matching powersets. Wolverine tanks fights because he can. He is a damage soaker, it's part of his powerset. This does not mean he is not superhumanly fast. He is. He also happens to be a bullet dodger based on repeditive feats showing him as such and has reflexes that allow him to tag speedsters. The fact that he can both absorb AND avoid damage is what makes him a bad fight for Captain America. And I hold the same for depowered Hercules.

It just so happens with Wolverine, that the quickest route in ending a battle ends up being the most direct, and subsequently painful, route. (I think Logan is a masochist. Personal theory.) But hey, if we want finesse, read a Daredevil or a Spidey book I guess...

Captain America cannot afford to fight like Logan. He would have been killed 1000 times over. This is partly why Wolverine has so many low end showings... writers can take liberties with him that they cannot with other characters lacking his Healing Factor. Showing him getting taking blows that would kill normal street levelers. Yet because said blows actually KO'd Logan, all of a sudden he can no longer soak the hits from class 100's. (Personal rant).

However, the healing factor and durability is why Wolverine versus Hulk battles are so damn brutally fun. They can both unleash without Marvel losing one of their icons.
That's my take on it anyways...