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#1 Posted by FuriousWeasel (95 posts) - - Show Bio

Please read before posting.

I'm surprised by the general opinion that Hercules automatically looses to Clark, I don't believe this to be the case for a couple of reasons.

First of all Herc has previously shown strength and durability levels at least on a par with Superman and he has unlimited stamina so Clark would tire first.

Second Herc is a far far better fighter than Clark, one of the greatest warriors in the universe with over three thousand years experience. (He has beaten Thor and Ares in H2H combat)

The only advantages I see Superman having over Herc is speed and flight, but considering Herc has a half brother who is a God of speed and has been on a team with Quicksilver for several years I believe he can deal with a speedster and he has defeated fliers before. If Herc took the battle seriously and fought all out (Especially if he uses his Adamantine mace) he is easily a match for Superman.

#2 Posted by Supreme Marvel (11268 posts) - - Show Bio

By that, does that mean Hermes has the same strength as Hercules? No. Doesn't work like that. Quick Silver isn't anywhere near the speed of Superman. Hercules downfall is his speed. He would never make contact with Superman.

However, I don't know that much of the Marvel Hercules. So I may be wrong on these theories.

#3 Posted by Pokeysteve (8658 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think Herc has any feats to put him on Supes level other than arm wrestling Thor. After three thousand years experience, Herc is still a brawler from what I've seen on here.

Speed it the real decider. Quicksilver shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence as Superman. Herc probably couldn't touch him. Then you add in heat vision, super breath and freeze breath (as distraction at best) and Herc goes down. Herc has nothing concrete enough to put him in the same league as Superman.

#4 Posted by Wolfrazer (7675 posts) - - Show Bio
@Pokeysteve:  Well he did hold up the world/heavens, so theres another feat. But ya Superman is too diverse in his powerset for Hercules. Now if it was just H2H, and no other powers Supes could use then I would lean to Herc but as it stands now, no it goes to Supes.
#5 Posted by Journal (495 posts) - - Show Bio

Probably Superman.

#6 Posted by Lvenger (21166 posts) - - Show Bio

@FuriousWeasel: Better fighting skills and equal or superior strength feats don't get Hercules anywhere. I haven't seen any reaction feats from him or him dealing with any speedsters at a sufficient level that would allow him to tag Superman. Superman still wins here due to a more diverse power set.

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#7 Edited by Jayfournines (4024 posts) - - Show Bio

I assume we're talking about Pre new 52 Supes...right? In any case, that Superman had been trained by both Batman and Wonder Woman in martial arts (plus he knew some crazy kryptonian stuff as well), not only that, but if we consider the whole "he's got such and such years of experience", does that mean Hercules is a better fighter than Cassandra Cain or than Batman? in any case, Superman has a thousand and some years of experience from when the time he spent fighting alongside Diana in Valhalla (from Action Comics sevenhundred and something, can't remember the issue...but the story was called something like "immortal beloved"), so that should at least count for something.

Hercules might not get tired (honestly I do not remember...then again, didn't Hulk beat the hoohah outta him?), but Clark's durability is ridiculous, especially fighting under a yellow sun where he can just fly upwards and sundip for a bit, so I don't believe stamina is a factor here.

I have to give it to Superman due to heat vision, arctic breath and the speed which allows him to turn invisible/intangible and fight at high end speeds, pressure strikes, high intellect, faster reaction time and so on and so forth.

Clark Kent's got this easily.

#8 Posted by SPM1M (897 posts) - - Show Bio

Equal in strength? theres nothing that suggest that Herc is on the same level as supes in strength unless he has the belt of strength. As for fighting skill goes, fighting skill is useless wen ur opponent is much MUCH! faster sure u can compare herc to QS but supes tangles with flash and thats a HUGE speed gap ad to that all the other powers in Kals arsenal Herc has no real chance against Kal......

#9 Posted by Vaeternus (9410 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman

#10 Posted by PlasticBag (1222 posts) - - Show Bio

Supes is just all around better than Herc IMO.

#11 Posted by Simon_the_digger (3378 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman

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#12 Posted by Deranged Midget (17965 posts) - - Show Bio

Regarding Hercules' strength and durability, it's hard to measure that up with DC's equivalent in Superman. He could be nearly as strong as Superman or possibly just as strong if you wanted to give him that much, but honestly, he's extremely over-shadowed by Clark's power-set. Hercules is so limited in comparison. Yes, he might be more skilled than Clark due to his few thousand years of training and what-not, but that means nothing when he's unable to tag Clark. On top of that, Clark can easily utilize heat vision or freeze breath on top of his infinitely superior speed advantage.

Hercules might be able to dish it out if it came to that, but Clark's power-set would allow him to dance all over him.

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#13 Posted by BigCimmerian (8837 posts) - - Show Bio

@Supreme Marvel said:

By that, does that mean Hermes has the same strength as Hercules? No. Doesn't work like that. Quick Silver isn't anywhere near the speed of Superman. Hercules downfall is his speed. He would never make contact with Superman.

However, I don't know that much of the Marvel Hercules. So I may be wrong on these theories.

I doubt that these characters from pictures are faster than Marvel Hercules, he will make contact with Superman.

#14 Posted by Supreme Marvel (11268 posts) - - Show Bio

@BigCimmerian said:

@Supreme Marvel said:

By that, does that mean Hermes has the same strength as Hercules? No. Doesn't work like that. Quick Silver isn't anywhere near the speed of Superman. Hercules downfall is his speed. He would never make contact with Superman.

However, I don't know that much of the Marvel Hercules. So I may be wrong on these theories.

I doubt that these characters from pictures are faster than Marvel Hercules, he will make contact with Superman.

Atlas at the top is rather quick.

Hercules one caught him off guard.

Darksied is remarkable quick and more powerful than Superman.

Batman is wearing a K-ring.

Maybe do some research first?

#15 Posted by Wolfrazer (7675 posts) - - Show Bio

At the very least, Hercules(at least DC) should be on par with Superman STRENGTH wise. Looking at Hercules, and being that they are using his myth feats...strength wise he should be up there with Superman it would be ridiculous for him not to be.

#16 Posted by Supreme Marvel (11268 posts) - - Show Bio

Also against Atlas, Superman was getting hit by magic all through the fight. Until he got his health back and a magic immunity from Zatara. Then Superman kicked Atlas' arse.

#17 Edited by BigCimmerian (8837 posts) - - Show Bio

@Supreme Marvel: Atlas didn't look very quick, he was peak human at best, Darkseid has the same speed and reaction time as Thor and that is microsecond. It doesn't matter if Hercules caught him off guard, if Supes is really that fast then he should be capable of blocking or dodging that punch.

#18 Posted by BigCimmerian (8837 posts) - - Show Bio

@Supreme Marvel: And don't forget about Doomsday, Lobo, Mongul, Hawkman, Aquaman, they all managed to hit him without trouble, and I doubt they are faster than Hercules.

#19 Posted by Supreme Marvel (11268 posts) - - Show Bio

@BigCimmerian:

@Supreme Marvel: Atlas didn't look very quick, he was peak human at best

@Supreme Marvel said:

Also against Atlas, Superman was getting hit by magic all through the fight. Until he got his health back and a magic immunity from Zatara. Then Superman kicked Atlas' arse.

@BigCimmerian said:

Darkseid has the same speed and reaction time as Thor and that is microsecond.

Well if you read on, Superman wasn't trying to do anything to him. He said "I'd be mad to try fighting you" and gets a woman and flies away.

#20 Posted by Supreme Marvel (11268 posts) - - Show Bio

@BigCimmerian said:

@Supreme Marvel: And don't forget about Doomsday, Lobo, Mongul, Hawkman, Aquaman, they all managed to hit him without trouble, and I doubt they are faster than Hercules.

Okay, since you've just mentioned Doomsday in that list I'm no long responding to your comments since Doomsday took apart the Justice League an a matter of moments.

#21 Posted by BigCimmerian (8837 posts) - - Show Bio

@Supreme Marvel said:

@BigCimmerian said:

@Supreme Marvel: And don't forget about Doomsday, Lobo, Mongul, Hawkman, Aquaman, they all managed to hit him without trouble, and I doubt they are faster than Hercules.

Okay, since you've just mentioned Doomsday in that list I'm no long responding to your comments since Doomsday took apart the Justice League an a matter of moments.

He is very incostinent character. Yeah he took apart Justice League in a matter of moments, but he also failed to tag Richard Grayson posing as Batman.

#22 Posted by TheVoiceOfReason (747 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman, he wouldn't even get touched in this fight.

#23 Edited by FuriousWeasel (95 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman's heat beams and freeze breath would have no effect on Herc, he has stood up to almost full powered blasts from the herald Nova with no damage, he has also stood against blasts from the godlike Korvac and he definately has strength feats as 'The god of strength' up there with Supermam. Hercules was the Earth's premier warrior even before his mortal death, a master of all combat styles and is credited co-creating pankration the worlds first complete mixed fighting art and the combat style that Wonder Woman is trained in. Again the only advantage I see Superman having is his speed and I'm pretty sure he has the experience gained in three thousand years to deal with this, don't forget that Herc has regularly beaten war gods in H2H and even beat Thor while drunk.

#24 Posted by FuriousWeasel (95 posts) - - Show Bio

See my later post for some of the answers to your points.

#25 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

Even in morals - Superman wins this for sure. 
Hercules may be in the same level of strength with Superman, but he isn't as durable as Superman. He also doesn't have answer for his heat vision.
 
Superman in the beginning will not use his speed, but Herc is alone and can't put Superman down, before Clark will change his tactic into using speed and HV good enough to stomp Zeusson ( :-P ).

#26 Posted by Jayfournines (4024 posts) - - Show Bio

@FuriousWeasel said:

Superman's heat beams and freeze breath would have no effect on Herc, he has stood up to almost full powered blasts from the herald Nova with no damage, he has also stood against blasts from the godlike Korvac and he definately has strength feats as 'The god of strength' up there with Supermam. Hercules was the Earth's premier warrior even before his mortal death, a master of all combat styles and is credited co-creating pankration the worlds first complete mixed fighting art and the combat style that Wonder Woman is trained in. Again the only advantage I see Superman having is his speed and I'm pretty sure he has the experience gained in three thousand years to deal with this, don't forget that Herc has regularly beaten war gods in H2H and even beat Thor while drunk.

really? hercules knows ninjitsu? and brazillian jiu jitsu? and pressure points? and torquasm vo?

#27 Posted by FuriousWeasel (95 posts) - - Show Bio

Herc has tagged and dropped Quicksilver moving at his pre-Isotope E top speed (Over the speed of sound)

#28 Posted by FuriousWeasel (95 posts) - - Show Bio

Herc has stood up to an almost full powered blast from the herald Nova without even flinching, he would not be effected by clark's heat beams.

#29 Posted by BigCimmerian (8837 posts) - - Show Bio

If drunk Hercules can beat Thor, then he can surely beat Superman, but I must say that Thor was using only his strength in battle.

#30 Posted by FuriousWeasel (95 posts) - - Show Bio

Hercules has held aloft the heavens, held together the entire island of Manhattan after an attack by worldbreaker Hulk and has lifted and literally thrown Marvel's version of Godzilla who weights thousands of tons.

#31 Posted by FuriousWeasel (95 posts) - - Show Bio

You're joking right, he gets 'touched' all the time.

#32 Posted by SPM1M (897 posts) - - Show Bio

@FuriousWeasel said:

Herc has tagged and dropped Quicksilver moving at his pre-Isotope E top speed (Over the speed of sound)

Thats kinda irrelevant since superman is far faster than quick silver we are talking light speed

@FuriousWeasel said:

Herc has stood up to an almost full powered blast from the herald Nova without even flinching, he would not be effected by clark's heat beams.

Thats nice but if I where to give the same argument on supes side i could say he survived a supernova, flew away from a planetary explosion, survived the collision of two planets while at the center and so much more but just curious is a full powered blast from Nova on par with the heat hotter from that of the core of a star just wondering

Even if Herc had equal strength supes other abilities would make short work of him assuming ur talkin about a stanrdard herc with out any divine amps

#33 Posted by Dark_Vengeance_ (15127 posts) - - Show Bio

@FuriousWeasel said:

Herc has tagged and dropped Quicksilver moving at his pre-Isotope E top speed (Over the speed of sound)

yeah and Superman tagged Flash who is fater than quicksilver.

#35 Posted by FuriousWeasel (95 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarkKnightDetective: I posted that instance just as a response to someone saying they had never seen a Hercules speed feat.

#36 Posted by FuriousWeasel (95 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jayfournines said:

@FuriousWeasel said:

Superman's heat beams and freeze breath would have no effect on Herc, he has stood up to almost full powered blasts from the herald Nova with no damage, he has also stood against blasts from the godlike Korvac and he definately has strength feats as 'The god of strength' up there with Supermam. Hercules was the Earth's premier warrior even before his mortal death, a master of all combat styles and is credited co-creating pankration the worlds first complete mixed fighting art and the combat style that Wonder Woman is trained in. Again the only advantage I see Superman having is his speed and I'm pretty sure he has the experience gained in three thousand years to deal with this, don't forget that Herc has regularly beaten war gods in H2H and even beat Thor while drunk.

really? hercules knows ninjitsu? and brazillian jiu jitsu? and pressure points? and torquasm vo?

That's obviously not what I meant, Hercules is a master of all forms of fighting (stand-up brawling, grappling, swordsmanship, thrown weapons, archery etc.) not specific modern oriental martial art styles. Hercules, when mortal, was the world's greatest warriors able to defeat powerful supernatural creatures.

#37 Posted by terry2012 (5911 posts) - - Show Bio

What everyone said about Superman. He clearly wins.

#38 Posted by blackadamFTW (7867 posts) - - Show Bio

@ImmortalOne: Just to clarify for the one feat, he didn't destroy the planet, he just heated it up.

Superman still wins pretty damn easily.

#39 Posted by Jayfournines (4024 posts) - - Show Bio

@FuriousWeasel said:

@Jayfournines said:

@FuriousWeasel said:

Superman's heat beams and freeze breath would have no effect on Herc, he has stood up to almost full powered blasts from the herald Nova with no damage, he has also stood against blasts from the godlike Korvac and he definately has strength feats as 'The god of strength' up there with Supermam. Hercules was the Earth's premier warrior even before his mortal death, a master of all combat styles and is credited co-creating pankration the worlds first complete mixed fighting art and the combat style that Wonder Woman is trained in. Again the only advantage I see Superman having is his speed and I'm pretty sure he has the experience gained in three thousand years to deal with this, don't forget that Herc has regularly beaten war gods in H2H and even beat Thor while drunk.

really? hercules knows ninjitsu? and brazillian jiu jitsu? and pressure points? and torquasm vo?

That's obviously not what I meant, Hercules is a master of all forms of fighting (stand-up brawling, grappling, swordsmanship, thrown weapons, archery etc.) not specific modern oriental martial art styles. Hercules, when mortal, was the world's greatest warriors able to defeat powerful supernatural creatures.

so is he a master of all forms of fighting or not? does he know savate? zipota? mexican-style boxing? native american knife fighting? kali stick fighting?

#40 Posted by P0rtal (872 posts) - - Show Bio

Has it really come to the point where so many users really see Superman as a weakling, comparable to Thor and Hercules? I mean...man. The poor guy was stripped of his powers so many times and re imagined so many times over the decades, who is to say who Superman REALLY is? Which version of Superman ? How do you go from mini Jesus Superman in the Silver Age to Superman from the justice league cartoon who has trouble with grenades and large pieces of machinery? I mean, seriously. How stupid do you have to be to say Superman vs anyone without being specific to what era of Superman you are talking about.

Nobody in the last 30 yrs or so sees superman as neigh god like, totally invulnerable, near limitless in speed. Pretty much all kids think Superman is just a guy in a blue outfit with an S on his shoulder, not the most amazing super hero there is, not the leader, or the first original. Just a weakling that Thor might be able to beat up. What a sad place this site has become.

#41 Posted by Journal (495 posts) - - Show Bio

@P0rtal: Are you Spike?

#42 Posted by KnightRise (4762 posts) - - Show Bio

@Supreme Marvel: I command you to FAP.

#43 Edited by xeon1cs (1481 posts) - - Show Bio

@BigCimmerian said:

@Supreme Marvel said:

By that, does that mean Hermes has the same strength as Hercules? No. Doesn't work like that. Quick Silver isn't anywhere near the speed of Superman. Hercules downfall is his speed. He would never make contact with Superman.

However, I don't know that much of the Marvel Hercules. So I may be wrong on these theories.

I doubt that these characters from pictures are faster than Marvel Hercules, he will make contact with Superman.

Holy out of context scans Batman!

Hercules cannot beat Superman.

#44 Posted by Pokeysteve (8658 posts) - - Show Bio

@Wolfrazer said:

@Pokeysteve: Well he did hold up the world/heavens, so theres another feat. But ya Superman is too diverse in his powerset for Hercules. Now if it was just H2H, and no other powers Supes could use then I would lean to Herc but as it stands now, no it goes to Supes.

Holding up the heavens is one of those abstract feats that can't be calculated and doesn't mean much. Supes and Thor are considered close in strength and Herc and Thor are considered equal. There's no reason to think Superman couldn't hold up the heavens either.

#45 Edited by xeon1cs (1481 posts) - - Show Bio

@Pokeysteve said:

@Wolfrazer said:

@Pokeysteve: Well he did hold up the world/heavens, so theres another feat. But ya Superman is too diverse in his powerset for Hercules. Now if it was just H2H, and no other powers Supes could use then I would lean to Herc but as it stands now, no it goes to Supes.

Holding up the heavens is one of those abstract feats that can't be calculated and doesn't mean much. Supes and Thor are considered close in strength and Herc and Thor are considered equal. There's no reason to think Superman couldn't hold up the heavens either.

Didn't Pre-Flashpoint Superman basically lift infinity? Granted Captain Marvel was there. But half of infinity is still infinity. Just saying, they both have stupid strength feats, but Supermans high end, is well...high. Even New 52 shows greater strength than Hercules has in quite some time.

#46 Posted by Pokeysteve (8658 posts) - - Show Bio

@xeon1cs said:

@Pokeysteve said:

@Wolfrazer said:

@Pokeysteve: Well he did hold up the world/heavens, so theres another feat. But ya Superman is too diverse in his powerset for Hercules. Now if it was just H2H, and no other powers Supes could use then I would lean to Herc but as it stands now, no it goes to Supes.

Holding up the heavens is one of those abstract feats that can't be calculated and doesn't mean much. Supes and Thor are considered close in strength and Herc and Thor are considered equal. There's no reason to think Superman couldn't hold up the heavens either.

Didn't Pre-Flashpoint Superman basically lift infinity? Granted Captain Marvel was there. But half of infinity is still infinity. Just saying, they both have stupid strength feats, but Supermans high end, is well...high. Even New 52 shows greater strength than Hercules has in quite some time.

Yup. I didn't mention that "feat" though. It's fun to read but isn't really usable in the battle forums.

I like where they're going with New 52 Supe.

#47 Posted by xeon1cs (1481 posts) - - Show Bio

@Pokeysteve said:

@xeon1cs said:

@Pokeysteve said:

@Wolfrazer said:

@Pokeysteve: Well he did hold up the world/heavens, so theres another feat. But ya Superman is too diverse in his powerset for Hercules. Now if it was just H2H, and no other powers Supes could use then I would lean to Herc but as it stands now, no it goes to Supes.

Holding up the heavens is one of those abstract feats that can't be calculated and doesn't mean much. Supes and Thor are considered close in strength and Herc and Thor are considered equal. There's no reason to think Superman couldn't hold up the heavens either.

Didn't Pre-Flashpoint Superman basically lift infinity? Granted Captain Marvel was there. But half of infinity is still infinity. Just saying, they both have stupid strength feats, but Supermans high end, is well...high. Even New 52 shows greater strength than Hercules has in quite some time.

Yup. I didn't mention that "feat" though. It's fun to read but isn't really usable in the battle forums.

I like where they're going with New 52 Supe.

I do as well, I like how they're kind of teetering on that "Almost Silver Age levels but not quite there" edge.

#48 Posted by Pokeysteve (8658 posts) - - Show Bio

@xeon1cs: EXACTLY. That's the perfect way to phrase it.

#49 Posted by FuriousWeasel (95 posts) - - Show Bio

@P0rtal: What's the point of a character like that, with that much power, automatically stronger and faster than any other character, it's pathetic. Why would anyone read a book about a unbelievably dull character like that and if he's so damn powerful, why would there be any need far any other heroes. Also to to say Thor or Hercules are weaklings is ignorant to the point of retardation and goes against over fifty years of established continuity.

#50 Edited by Vouile (678 posts) - - Show Bio

@SPM1M said:

Equal in strength? theres nothing that suggest that Herc is on the same level as supes in strength unless he has the belt of strength. As for fighting skill goes, fighting skill is useless wen ur opponent is much MUCH! faster sure u can compare herc to QS but supes tangles with flash and thats a HUGE speed gap ad to that all the other powers in Kals arsenal Herc has no real chance against Kal......

@PlasticBag said:

Supes is just all around better than Herc IMO.

@PlasticBag said:

Supes is just all around better than Herc IMO.

@Ferdelance said:

Superman

@Journal said:

Superman.

All this.

@FuriousWeasel

Morals off, Hercules would loose almost automatically, since Superman can travel light speeds. Almost anything Hercules would do wouldn't matter.

Morals on, may be a better battle and Hercules wouldn't loose automatically, but Superman takes an easy trophy and still wins no matter what due to his superior healing factor, speed and flight advantage and almost nothing else would matter on Hercules' side.

You should also move this to the "General Discussions" forums if you'd like to debate on the specifics of this battle and not the just the outcome. If you're putting it in the "Battles" forums, it will be locked.

:D

Vouile