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#1 Posted by King Saturn (226098 posts) - - Show Bio
Who wins in an all out battle between these Two Powerhouse Teams ? Everyone is at Pre 52 Levels. Random Encounter. Fight takes place in Metropolis. No Weapons
Helspont and Black Adam vs Mr. Majestic and Captain Marvel 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
#2 Posted by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1.

#3 Posted by King Saturn (226098 posts) - - Show Bio
Reasons Please...
#4 Posted by terry2012 (6147 posts) - - Show Bio

Team one.

#5 Posted by MonsterStomp (22168 posts) - - Show Bio

Hard to say. Helspont vs Majestic would be a good fight. I'd say BA can take CM in a good fight then its BA and Helly on Majestic. Majestic isn't a pushover though. 6/10 for team 1 imo.

#6 Posted by Immortal777 (7870 posts) - - Show Bio

It could go either way BA and CM cant beat the MVP from either team so it's really a battle between Helspont and Majestic.

#7 Posted by oceanmaster21 (9162 posts) - - Show Bio

true i say majestic cud pull it off

#8 Posted by SOG7dc (8823 posts) - - Show Bio

majestic and marvel win

#9 Posted by King Saturn (226098 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

majestic and marvel win

reasons please...

#10 Posted by SOG7dc (8823 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

majestic and marvel win

reasons please...

well i dont think Adam could harm majestic. and i think majestic is faster and stronger than adam. so, in my view, adam will be taken care of quickly leaving maj and billy to double team helspont.

#11 Posted by King Saturn (226098 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@king_saturn said:

@sog7dc said:

majestic and marvel win

reasons please...

well i dont think Adam could harm majestic. and i think majestic is faster and stronger than adam. so, in my view, adam will be taken care of quickly leaving maj and billy to double team helspont.

There is a glaring problem with your theory... Why would Majestic go after Black Adam when his Arch Nemesis Helspont is in the Battle ? Helspont will give Majestic all he can handle as he usually does. Also, Black Adam wont go after Majestic first either as his initial threat would be Captain Marvel. So, you wanna run that back ?

#12 Posted by SOG7dc (8823 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@king_saturn said:

@sog7dc said:

majestic and marvel win

reasons please...

well i dont think Adam could harm majestic. and i think majestic is faster and stronger than adam. so, in my view, adam will be taken care of quickly leaving maj and billy to double team helspont.

There is a glaring problem with your theory... Why would Majestic go after Black Adam when his Arch Nemesis Helspont is in the Battle ? Helspont will give Majestic all he can handle as he usually does. Also, Black Adam wont go after Majestic first either as his initial threat would be Captain Marvel. So, you wanna run that back ?

well i dont see the glaring problem you see. he reasonbeing is that majestic is smart. extremely so. So i think he would evaluate adam as a lesser threat than helspont and take care of the easier foe

#13 Posted by SOG7dc (8823 posts) - - Show Bio

@buckshot what are some of Helsponts feats?

#14 Posted by King Saturn (226098 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@king_saturn said:

@sog7dc said:

@king_saturn said:

@sog7dc said:

majestic and marvel win

reasons please...

well i dont think Adam could harm majestic. and i think majestic is faster and stronger than adam. so, in my view, adam will be taken care of quickly leaving maj and billy to double team helspont.

There is a glaring problem with your theory... Why would Majestic go after Black Adam when his Arch Nemesis Helspont is in the Battle ? Helspont will give Majestic all he can handle as he usually does. Also, Black Adam wont go after Majestic first either as his initial threat would be Captain Marvel. So, you wanna run that back ?

well i dont see the glaring problem you see. he reasonbeing is that majestic is smart. extremely so. So i think he would evaluate adam as a lesser threat than helspont and take care of the easier foe

How would he evaluate Black Adam as a lessor threat ? From what exactly ? And it's not like Helspont is going to stand there and just wait... he will be going after Majestic as he is his number one target.

#15 Posted by RetconCrisis (4587 posts) - - Show Bio

I see Helspont battling Majs in a close fight. Black Adam can probably take out Captain Marvel. Then either Helspont beats Majs or Black Adam and Helspont team up to beat Majs. All in all, I think Team 1 should win.

#16 Posted by SOG7dc (8823 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@king_saturn said:

@sog7dc said:

@king_saturn said:

@sog7dc said:

majestic and marvel win

reasons please...

well i dont think Adam could harm majestic. and i think majestic is faster and stronger than adam. so, in my view, adam will be taken care of quickly leaving maj and billy to double team helspont.

There is a glaring problem with your theory... Why would Majestic go after Black Adam when his Arch Nemesis Helspont is in the Battle ? Helspont will give Majestic all he can handle as he usually does. Also, Black Adam wont go after Majestic first either as his initial threat would be Captain Marvel. So, you wanna run that back ?

well i dont see the glaring problem you see. he reasonbeing is that majestic is smart. extremely so. So i think he would evaluate adam as a lesser threat than helspont and take care of the easier foe

How would he evaluate Black Adam as a lessor threat ? From what exactly ? And it's not like Helspont is going to stand there and just wait... he will be going after Majestic as he is his number one target.

a lesser threat in comparison to Helspont. and of course he wont just stand there but billy can certainly provide an adequate disraction

#17 Posted by King Saturn (226098 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@king_saturn said:

@sog7dc said:

@king_saturn said:

@sog7dc said:

@king_saturn said:

@sog7dc said:

majestic and marvel win

reasons please...

well i dont think Adam could harm majestic. and i think majestic is faster and stronger than adam. so, in my view, adam will be taken care of quickly leaving maj and billy to double team helspont.

There is a glaring problem with your theory... Why would Majestic go after Black Adam when his Arch Nemesis Helspont is in the Battle ? Helspont will give Majestic all he can handle as he usually does. Also, Black Adam wont go after Majestic first either as his initial threat would be Captain Marvel. So, you wanna run that back ?

well i dont see the glaring problem you see. he reasonbeing is that majestic is smart. extremely so. So i think he would evaluate adam as a lesser threat than helspont and take care of the easier foe

How would he evaluate Black Adam as a lessor threat ? From what exactly ? And it's not like Helspont is going to stand there and just wait... he will be going after Majestic as he is his number one target.

a lesser threat in comparison to Helspont. and of course he wont just stand there but billy can certainly provide an adequate disraction

What reason would Billy have to go after a Foe he has never seen before when Black Adam is right there ?

#18 Edited by SOG7dc (8823 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn: i think youre nitpicking. its a battle between two teams. one member of one team is a genius. and i told you why i thought team two would win. in battles we also remove PIS or plot from these debates. logically if Shazam is supposed to be much wiser than i am and majestic is supposed to be much smarter than i am im sure that they would either do what i theorized they would do or come up with something better. you can disagree but i really think youre nitpicking now

#19 Posted by Comiccrazeraze (413 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn: From what i've seen in the image verse I would have to give it to team two due to overall experience. The way it plays out I call majestic/Helspont: 51/49 maj's way where in a real coming for you bloodlust fight Black adam takes the cake over Billy. *Opens umbrella and waits for the "no comics say" fanboys. This is not to say that I don't think Maj could hold his own with helspont and beat him but I think even a weakened Maj against only a moderately weakened adam? Team two, majic users would really turn the tides imo

#20 Edited by Buckshot (18710 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@buckshot what are some of Helsponts feats?

Not much really. His WS version's greatest real feats are being able to give Majestic trouble in physical fights. Taking his hits and landing his own that seem to actually have an effect on Majestic. He's also fast enough to avoid Majestic's laser vision in close combat. He has energy attacks, force fields, and psychic attacks, but their limits are not well defined.

How would he evaluate Black Adam as a lessor threat ? From what exactly ? And it's not like Helspont is going to stand there and just wait... he will be going after Majestic as he is his number one target.

I also don't see a problem with Majestic choosing to take down BA first. His senses might alert him to BA's potential threat, or he may recall information on him from his time on DC Earth, or he may just decide to go after him figuring that he knows what Helspont can do and dealing with the unknown threat head on and having a known enemy at his back is smarter than the other way around. Helspont doesn't have to stand there and wait (this frequently strikes me as the silliest response to a tactic that gets presented) if Majestic takes on BA. It's not like Captain Marvel just disappears. Majestic could direct him to fight Helspont or he just might not be dumb and know to defend his teammate when Helspont goes after him and then when Majestic takes care of BA, they can double team Helspont.

Moderator
#21 Posted by King Saturn (226098 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@king_saturn: i think youre nitpicking. its a battle between two teams. one member of one team is a genius. and i told you why i thought team two would win. in battles we also remove PIS or plot from these debates. logically if Shazam is supposed to be much wiser than i am and majestic is supposed to be much smarter than i am im sure that they would either do what i theorized they would do or come up with something better. you can disagree but i really think youre nitpicking now

There is no nitpicking... it's only logical that opponents would confront their arch nemesis before they would a stranger.

@buckshot said:

@sog7dc said:

@buckshot what are some of Helsponts feats?

Not much really. His WS version's greatest real feats are being able to give Majestic trouble in physical fights. Taking his hits and landing his own that seem to actually have an effect on Majestic. He's also fast enough to avoid Majestic's laser vision in close combat. He has energy attacks, force fields, and psychic attacks, but their limits are not well defined.

@king_saturn said:

How would he evaluate Black Adam as a lessor threat ? From what exactly ? And it's not like Helspont is going to stand there and just wait... he will be going after Majestic as he is his number one target.

I also don't see a problem with Majestic choosing to take down BA first. His senses might alert him to BA's potential threat, or he may recall information on him from his time on DC Earth, or he may just decide to go after him figuring that he knows what Helspont can do and dealing with the unknown threat head on and having a known enemy at his back is smarter than the other way around. Helspont doesn't have to stand there and wait (this frequently strikes me as the silliest response to a tactic that gets presented) if Majestic takes on BA. It's not like Captain Marvel just disappears. Majestic could direct him to fight Helspont or he just might not be dumb and know to defend his teammate when Helspont goes after him and then when Majestic takes care of BA, they can double team Helspont.

I do... because Majestic's main enemy is Helspont... what does he actually know of Black Adam ? And since Captain Marvel and Black Adam already have bad blood between them... it's only logical that they would go at each other leaving Helspont and Majestic to mix it up. It's simple guys.

#22 Posted by oceanmaster21 (9162 posts) - - Show Bio

team 1 ftw

#23 Posted by Buckshot (18710 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn: There are logical reasons for him attacking either character. Even if there weren't, doing the unexpected would be reason enough. Not doing exactly what your opponent expects is generally a good plan.

Moderator
#24 Posted by dondave (39089 posts) - - Show Bio

Ehh, this is hard, Majestros usually has trouble with Helspont but Helspont also had his body killed by Imperator. I guess Helspont could take him down with TP while Teth beats up Billy.

#25 Posted by King Saturn (226098 posts) - - Show Bio

@buckshot said:

@king_saturn: There are logical reasons for him attacking either character. Even if there weren't, doing the unexpected would be reason enough. Not doing exactly what your opponent expects is generally a good plan.

I don't think Majestic will have a chance to do the Unexpected because as soon as he turns to even use a different tactic he will see BA and CM engaging already... that's what is key. CM is not a tactical fighter regardless of his Wisdom of Solomon... he thinks a lot like a rock em sock DC Heavyweight does... and even If Maj told him to fight with Helspont... I don't see him listening to the advice.

#26 Posted by Buckshot (18710 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn: I thought what was key was that Helspont is Majestic's main enemy? Seems you're attempting to adjust your point. Anyway, Marvel fighting Adam doesn't stop Majestic from also fighting him. It would even mean that BA is likely unprepared for the second attacker, allowing Majestic to kill him quickly while he engages Marvel so they can double team Helspont. This auto-match up idea that you're basing your position on is a silly one. Characters don't have to line up in the same way every time, and Majestic quickly double-teaming Adam is a reasonable idea. And before you start on with this "Helspont's not just going to sit there thing" I'll point out that he doesn't have to. Majestic is the fastest character in this fight. He could be dealing with Adam before anyone, let alone Helspont, reacts. But even if he weren't, it's actually pretty likely that Helspont will just sit there. He likes to talk, a lot. He'd probably provide commentary when Majestic went to kill Adam. In one of their fights Majestic attacks him (double team him with Zealot, in case you're wondering how Majestic feels about that tactic) without much preamble and Helspont remarks "no hello? no catch up? very well." as if he's disappointed he didn't get to chat like he usually does. Majestic could easily use Helspont's ego to gain time for a double team if he really needed to.

Moderator
#27 Posted by King Saturn (226098 posts) - - Show Bio

@buckshot said:

@king_saturn: I thought what was key was that Helspont is Majestic's main enemy? Seems you're attempting to adjust your point. Anyway, Marvel fighting Adam doesn't stop Majestic from also fighting him. It would even mean that BA is likely unprepared for the second attacker, allowing Majestic to kill him quickly while he engages Marvel so they can double team Helspont. This auto-match up idea that you're basing your position on is a silly one. Characters don't have to line up in the same way every time, and Majestic quickly double-teaming Adam is a reasonable idea. And before you start on with this "Helspont's not just going to sit there thing" I'll point out that he doesn't have to. Majestic is the fastest character in this fight. He could be dealing with Adam before anyone, let alone Helspont, reacts. But even if he weren't, it's actually pretty likely that Helspont will just sit there. He likes to talk, a lot. He'd probably provide commentary when Majestic went to kill Adam. In one of their fights Majestic attacks him (double team him with Zealot, in case you're wondering how Majestic feels about that tactic) without much preamble and Helspont remarks "no hello? no catch up? very well." as if he's disappointed he didn't get to chat like he usually does. Majestic could easily use Helspont's ego to gain time for a double team if he really needed to.

Everything I said is key... but as you make other replies I make other points. Your logic is really bad here... Why would Helspont stand around and watch BA get attacked by Maj and CM if it's an all out battle ? If it's an all out battle then all things are a go... and besides who is to say BA and Helspont don't start attacking CM first anyways ? Helspont can't be that slow either or how would he be able to tag Majestic. The games can be played a number of different ways. Again, why would Majestic double teaming on BA be a reasonable idea than attacking Helspont head on ? It doesn't matter if Helspont likes to chat a lot... conditions is it's an all out battle. They are fighting with their respective comrades here... so that point of contingency goes out the window.

#28 Posted by dorukesin (6952 posts) - - Show Bio

Teth is so much

#29 Posted by Buckshot (18710 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn: Lol, I directly answered your 'helspont standing there' question before you asked it. He would because it's in character for him to and if we disregard character, Majestic would be moving too fast for him to do otherwise. If you want to make claims about Helspont's speed, provide evidence. Black Adam and Helspont can attack Marvel, sure, and while they are, Majestic kills Black Adam. Saying it that way doesn't actually change anything and I'm not sure you realize it. Either way Marvel serves as bait while Majestic takes down a member of the other team. If you actually wanted to present it a different way you'd say both characters give their full attention to Majestic. That wouldn't really help you though since that just makes it more likely that majestic will engage Adam and as I posted in the image above, Majestic can get Helspont off his back for a while to take Adam down. You ask why Majestic attacking BA would be more reasonable than him attacking Helspont. This is another question I've quite clearly answered. He could do it because it's not what either of his enemies would expect or because he doesn't want to leave an enemy of unknown power just hanging around.

Moderator
#30 Posted by King Saturn (226098 posts) - - Show Bio

@buckshot said:

@king_saturn: Lol, I directly answered your 'helspont standing there' question before you asked it. He would because it's in character for him to and if we disregard character, Majestic would be moving too fast for him to do otherwise. If you want to make claims about Helspont's speed, provide evidence. Black Adam and Helspont can attack Marvel, sure, and while they are, Majestic kills Black Adam. Saying it that way doesn't actually change anything and I'm not sure you realize it. Either way Marvel serves as bait while Majestic takes down a member of the other team. If you actually wanted to present it a different way you'd say both characters give their full attention to Majestic. That wouldn't really help you though since that just makes it more likely that majestic will engage Adam and as I posted in the image above, Majestic can get Helspont off his back for a while to take Adam down. You ask why Majestic attacking BA would be more reasonable than him attacking Helspont. This is another question I've quite clearly answered. He could do it because it's not what either of his enemies would expect or because he doesn't want to leave an enemy of unknown power just hanging around.

If it's an all out battle... then in character concepts are usually out of the question. As far as providing evidence for Helspont's speed... the fact that he can tag Maj in full combat can attest to that... and since they are not that far from each other... travel speed is less relevant compared to combat and reactive speed... Okay, you say Majestic can kill Black Adam... and who is to say Captain Marvel won't already be dead by the time Majestic goes after Black Adam ? Or Helspont doesn't see Maj coming in and Cold Crushes him with solid strikes ? Yeah, both Black Adam and Helspont can attack Majestic... that would suck more for your position though... because it would mean Captain Marvel has to jump in... and BA can hold off CM if not smash his face in as his attention has been redirected. Black Adam would not be hanging around though... you act as if BA and CM don't have that much history against each other. For the most part that battle would be happening off top... now Majestic could jump in... but it's more likely that he would deal with his Primary Foe first... because if it's an all out battle... then why leave your Primary Foe who can hurt you to your back to attack a stranger ? As far as Majestic getting Helspont out of the way... you really are not using that throwing him out of the way line are you ? Because anyone here can throw the other a great distance away.

#31 Posted by Buckshot (18710 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn: So....as I pointed out already, if you're removing character from the equation, then Majestic would use his speed to his fullest and would be able to defeat Black Adam before Helspont did anything about it. Even further than that though, if character is removed from the equation, you've undercut your argument in a more meaningful way since without it, the reason you're putting forth for him attacking Helspont is gone. Helspont being his arch-nemesis wouldn't even be a factor anymore and the argument is done right there.

The rest is just clean up. Helspont tagging Majestic in combat where he's not using his full speed is not evidence of Helspont's speed. If you want to make claims about Helspont's speed, present actual evidence. (And that you think I'm just talking about travel speed is strange to me.)

Captain Marvel won't be dead by the time Majestic goes after BA because you haven't shown that anyone is as fast as Majestic.

Proved that Helspont can "cold crush" Majestic operating at full speed.

On the one hand it could be seen as bad for my position, yes. That's because I'm making the case you should be making, FOR you. That argument is something you should have come up with. I'm trying to help you out by giving you the appropriate counter argument, that's why it's bad for my position. That said though, it's not really bad for my position because all I'm really saying is that Majestic can choose to deal with BA before dealing with Helspont, which even this scenario would allow him to do.

And at the end you ask the same questions I've answered in almost every one of my posts in this thread.

Moderator
#32 Edited by King Saturn (226098 posts) - - Show Bio
@buckshot said:

@king_saturn: So....as I pointed out already, if you're removing character from the equation, then Majestic would use his speed to his fullest and would be able to defeat Black Adam before Helspont did anything about it. Even further than that though, if character is removed from the equation, you've undercut your argument in a more meaningful way since without it, the reason you're putting forth for him attacking Helspont is gone. Helspont being his arch-nemesis wouldn't even be a factor anymore and the argument is done right there.

The rest is just clean up. Helspont tagging Majestic in combat where he's not using his full speed is not evidence of Helspont's speed. If you want to make claims about Helspont's speed, present actual evidence. (And that you think I'm just talking about travel speed is strange to me.)

Captain Marvel won't be dead by the time Majestic goes after BA because you haven't shown that anyone is as fast as Majestic.

Proved that Helspont can "cold crush" Majestic operating at full speed.

On the one hand it could be seen as bad for my position, yes. That's because I'm making the case you should be making, FOR you. That argument is something you should have come up with. I'm trying to help you out by giving you the appropriate counter argument, that's why it's bad for my position. That said though, it's not really bad for my position because all I'm really saying is that Majestic can choose to deal with BA before dealing with Helspont, which even this scenario would allow him to do.

And at the end you ask the same questions I've answered in almost every one of my posts in this thread.

Majestic moves at Hyperspeeds even when angered... Black Adam and Captain Marvel can both do that. Can you actually show Majestic moving FTL in a Planet Atmosphere ? That I would like to see. Why wouldn't Helspont being an arch nemesis not be a factor ? If you are enraged or out of character... you still attack that which you know first even over the stranger... and since both he and Helspont are out there... in best estimation they would go at each other first as Black Adam and Captain Marvel would go at each other first.

What exactly is Majestic's full speed in battle ? Can you actually give that ? Can you actually show that Majestic is not using anywhere near his full speed or capacity in his fights with Helspont ?

Lets get Majestic actual Moving Speed before we have to talk about how fast Black Adam or Captain Marvel moves. You ask for evidence, well provide a basis for there to be a counter argument first.

Nothing has been proved by anyone... it's really just you speaking and me speaking in actuality. But since you ask for speed evidence... well can you actually show a basis for Majestic full speed for us to work with here ?

The argument I am making is that of logic, even if enraged the characters will go after their main enemies, not the strangers. Majestic using an unpredictable tactic won't make sense because CM and BA will already be going at it. Leaving Red and White and Flaming Head.

#33 Posted by Buckshot (18710 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn: I don't need to show Majestic moving faster than light on a planet. Characters not moving at their full speed on a planet is typically a limit imposed to protect the environment, not because the environment physically limits them. Present a reason why Majestic would be limited by being on a planet. I also don't need to prove a negative. I'm talking about you asking me to prove that Majestic wasn't moving at a certain speed. I will repeat, if you want to make a claim about Helspont's speed, present the evidence. That I've suggested you do so several times and you have not, makes me think you are unable to. As for Majestic's operational speed, you can check his capability thread for displays of him reacting in nanoseconds and performing multiple incredibly complex feats in seconds. The Eradicator and molecular disentangler feats are good for that. Helspont has no feat that comes anywhere close to that, and I'd be surprised if you could find one for Black Adam since I've asked you for feats for Black Adam's speed before and you could give me nothing close to quantifiable.

As for the actual question of whether or not Majestic might attack Black Adam first, I still think it's a reasonable option. You've started talking about how the characters are enraged or out of character, but I see that nowhere in the OP. You didn't write "bloodlusted" anywhere. These characters can be fighting "all out", choosing to hold nothing back, without being out of their minds with rage. Even if you were able to make it about them being enraged, it wouldn't really carry for Majestic. He's shown that he's conditioned enough to automatically process things tactically. I think 10,000 years of combat conditioning is enough to overcome some anger and familiarity with an opponent. And you keep saying it wouldn't make sense for Majestic to double team an enemy, but it makes perfect sense. Taking down one opponent quickly and having backup to fight another threat makes a lot of sense. And in the case of them going "all out" Majestic would be able to make use of his speed to end the fight with BA before Helspont can react.

But really, if they're out of character like you want them to be, it doesn't matter who Majestic targets first cuz they'll be dead before they realize what's going on.

Moderator
#34 Posted by King Saturn (226098 posts) - - Show Bio

@buckshot said:

@king_saturn: I don't need to show Majestic moving faster than light on a planet. Characters not moving at their full speed on a planet is typically a limit imposed to protect the environment, not because the environment physically limits them. Present a reason why Majestic would be limited by being on a planet. I also don't need to prove a negative. I'm talking about you asking me to prove that Majestic wasn't moving at a certain speed. I will repeat, if you want to make a claim about Helspont's speed, present the evidence. That I've suggested you do so several times and you have not, makes me think you are unable to. As for Majestic's operational speed, you can check his capability thread for displays of him reacting in nanoseconds and performing multiple incredibly complex feats in seconds. The Eradicator and molecular disentangler feats are good for that. Helspont has no feat that comes anywhere close to that, and I'd be surprised if you could find one for Black Adam since I've asked you for feats for Black Adam's speed before and you could give me nothing close to quantifiable.

As for the actual question of whether or not Majestic might attack Black Adam first, I still think it's a reasonable option. You've started talking about how the characters are enraged or out of character, but I see that nowhere in the OP. You didn't write "bloodlusted" anywhere. These characters can be fighting "all out", choosing to hold nothing back, without being out of their minds with rage. Even if you were able to make it about them being enraged, it wouldn't really carry for Majestic. He's shown that he's conditioned enough to automatically process things tactically. I think 10,000 years of combat conditioning is enough to overcome some anger and familiarity with an opponent. And you keep saying it wouldn't make sense for Majestic to double team an enemy, but it makes perfect sense. Taking down one opponent quickly and having backup to fight another threat makes a lot of sense. And in the case of them going "all out" Majestic would be able to make use of his speed to end the fight with BA before Helspont can react.

But really, if they're out of character like you want them to be, it doesn't matter who Majestic targets first cuz they'll be dead before they realize what's going on.

Can you present a position of Majestic actually moving FTL period ? Because at best he was moving FTL with some type of Flight Device... on top of that, Majestic has very little quantifiable speed feats in his various battles with Eradicator, Union, Helspont, Spartan, Maul, Captain Atom and so on. Majestic moving fast doesn't mean he is moving faster than Black Adam or Helspont can. Even all things considered, Majestic was in an enraged state when he was fighting Helspont and still didn't show these proposed FTL speeds so it helps your argument none here. I am talking about you providing something that shows Majestic's combat speed is above that of Lightspeed or even Lightspeed itself... he can react in Nanoseconds supposedly, yet get smashed by everyone from Captain Atom to Eradicator to Spartan and so on. Helspont's speed is sufficient as he is able to tag Majestic even when dude is coming at him with full force. Doing Incredible Feats in Seconds doesn't mean much as someone like Black Adam could do complex things in seconds since his speed is Hypersonic ( well into it actually as it's around mach 500 on foot )

And I still don't think it's a reasonable option, if Majestic sees a nemesis that poses a quality threat to him... his mind would go to his presence first over the guy he knows little about who is fighting with his comrade... and what tactic is it to attack at a stranger blindly and leave the guy who can hurt you at your back exactly ? It's not very tactical at all... especially if your comrade is able to hold with the opponent you are trying to help him with... it's unpredictable yes, but stupid as you leave yourself open to a blunt attack from the back anyways... Yeah, I keep saying it cause it don't make sense... it don't make sense because you leave an opponent who you know can smash you from the side behind you to attack a stranger... you would attack the enemy you know first before you went after a strange force... even in an enraged state.

Use what speed exactly ? You mean the speed he had when he was getting hit by Helspont ? and Eradicator ? and Spartan ? and Union ? and Captain Atom ?

"If Majestic is so much faster than these guys as you say he is... They it would be consistently shown on panel that he is in battle... the only thing consistently shown on panel is that he is physical stronger than most of these opponents outside of Helspont."

#35 Posted by Buckshot (18710 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn: I don't know why you're asking about travel speed, but Majestic flew to the edge of the galaxy and back to Earth with no flight device. That he did it in less that thousands of years is evidence of faster than light travel speed without the need for further calculation. As for operational speed, I directed you to at least 3 examples of quantifiable feats superior to anything you can show for any other character in this fight. I'm not sure what your words are supposed to be getting at because I've provided evidence for Majestic's speed and you have nothing no matter how many times I ask you to present support for your case. Your only argument now is that Majestic still gets hit in fights in comics, but that's not news to anyone. Characters often don't use their full abilities in comics because it would make them boring. Superman using his full speed the second a fight started would get rid of the majority of threats he faces without a drop of drama or excitement. Saying that Majestic doesn't use his full speed often doesn't actually take it away from him, especially when you're saying that the normal way the characters behave aren't to be taken into consideration in this fight. Your own "all out" stipulation undercuts your point about what majestic normally does.

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#36 Posted by Zandalf (237 posts) - - Show Bio

I can see BA defeating Billy most of the times despite their power is probably the same.

Then Mj and Helspont are much or less equal in terms of powers and skills.

So,if Helspont is gonna fight MJ then BA will probably help him once he has defeated Billy, and together they can prevail against Mj. If Helspont will fight Billy first, he will probably defeat him but in the same time Mj could do the same with Black Adam so in this case we have a tie.

#37 Posted by King Saturn (226098 posts) - - Show Bio
@buckshot said:

@king_saturn: I don't know why you're asking about travel speed, but Majestic flew to the edge of the galaxy and back to Earth with no flight device. That he did it in less that thousands of years is evidence of faster than light travel speed without the need for further calculation. As for operational speed, I directed you to at least 3 examples of quantifiable feats superior to anything you can show for any other character in this fight. I'm not sure what your words are supposed to be getting at because I've provided evidence for Majestic's speed and you have nothing no matter how many times I ask you to present support for your case. Your only argument now is that Majestic still gets hit in fights in comics, but that's not news to anyone. Characters often don't use their full abilities in comics because it would make them boring. Superman using his full speed the second a fight started would get rid of the majority of threats he faces without a drop of drama or excitement. Saying that Majestic doesn't use his full speed often doesn't actually take it away from him, especially when you're saying that the normal way the characters behave aren't to be taken into consideration in this fight. Your own "all out" stipulation undercuts your point about what majestic normally does.


Show the evidence please... because the only evidence I have ever seen of Majestic flying through the Galaxy he had some Flight Apparatus that helped him fly through the Galaxy... it was not unaided. So unless you can show Majestic flying unaided at these Super Luminal Speeds... I don't have a reason to believe it any further. Operational Speed of Majestic only shows that he is Fast... not that he is Faster than these other characters here. Yes, he performed a bunch of feats in a matter of seconds... anyone with Hypersonic speed could do that. Majestic doesn't use this speed in the majority if not damn near all of his battles so why should I consider his so called superior operational speed to be consistent at all ? The only thing you asked for here was Helspont's speed feats... I told you the fact he can tag and keep up with Majestic should be enough as it shows he can keep up with a character who is Fast. My argument is against Majestic's so called great operational speed... if he was so much faster as you say... he should be able to evade at least some of the attacks even if he was to get hit some. Thing is we don't see Maj use this so called speed at all in combat... the comics would not be boring if Maj was to use his proposed speed... it would actually make things more interesting as the problem with a lot of these characters is that they don't use the powers that so often Users claim they have. Okay, well what if I say Majestic never uses his proposed speed in combat and that these so called 2 or 3 events of him using operational speed are fodder as he never really uses it in any battle at all ? Well what does it matter if the characters are out of character if Majestic isn't really a Light speed moving character anyways ? If he can't move at Lightspeed then he can't out evade these characters as everyone here is Hypersonic... outside of maybe Helspont.

#38 Posted by Baron_von_Santa (5227 posts) - - Show Bio

the BA in the pic looks like the traditional asian

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#39 Posted by Buckshot (18710 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn:

Here's Majestic at the edge of the galaxy:

See how that goes? You want evidence, I provide it. I still don't know why you're concerned about travel speed when it's not an issue here, but there you go. Still waiting on actual evidence of any character from Team 2 having operational speed anywhere close to Majestic's level.

You don't seem to understand how foolish your speed argument is at this point. You can't say Majestic isn't much faster than everyone here because you've given no proof of it. You can't say Majestic won't use his speed because you yourself said the characters are going all out and disregarding character. I provided better speed feats for Majestic and your own rules say he will use it. Whining about Majestic not using that speed regularly doesn't change anything.

But because it entertains me, let's look at some other things you said:

My argument is against Majestic's so called great operational speed... if he was so much faster as you say... he should be able to evade at least some of the attacks even if he was to get hit some. Thing is we don't see Maj use this so called speed at all in combat...

And who are the characters you pointed out that Majestic fought?

Helspont ? and Eradicator ? and Spartan ? and Union ? and Captain Atom ?

Well, Majestic showed enough speed against Helspont to backhand him out of a fight without him being able to react to it, as well as to catch Helspont's hands multiple times so the weapons in them couldn't reach his body. In Majestic's fight with Eradicator he reprograms his mind (by reading and rewriting billions of pieces of information per second) in the middle of their fight. When he fights Spartan, even though he's caught off guard he dodges three punches in succession while trying to talk to him. When he fights Union he sidesteps an energy blast at point blank range. When he fights Captain Atom, not only does he blitz him to start their fight, but he later outraces him and then catches his rage-fueled punch like it wasn't even moving. That's just the fights you brought up. He's fought the combined elders of the Plenary and avoided almost all their attacks even though it was 6 on 1. He's jumped into fights other people were having and caught punches that would have murdered his friends. He's dodged blades in sword fights and caught and dodged projectile attacks. You said if he's as fast as I claim he'd be evading "at least some attacks", well there you go, displays of speed in combat.

There is no part of your speed argument that has any value and until you provide some kind of evidence, that won't change just by you saying the same things over and over.

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#40 Edited by King Saturn (226098 posts) - - Show Bio

@buckshot said:

@king_saturn:

Here's Majestic at the edge of the galaxy:

See how that goes? You want evidence, I provide it. I still don't know why you're concerned about travel speed when it's not an issue here, but there you go. Still waiting on actual evidence of any character from Team 2 having operational speed anywhere close to Majestic's level.

You don't seem to understand how foolish your speed argument is at this point. You can't say Majestic isn't much faster than everyone here because you've given no proof of it. You can't say Majestic won't use his speed because you yourself said the characters are going all out and disregarding character. I provided better speed feats for Majestic and your own rules say he will use it. Whining about Majestic not using that speed regularly doesn't change anything.

But because it entertains me, let's look at some other things you said:

My argument is against Majestic's so called great operational speed... if he was so much faster as you say... he should be able to evade at least some of the attacks even if he was to get hit some. Thing is we don't see Maj use this so called speed at all in combat...

And who are the characters you pointed out that Majestic fought?

Helspont ? and Eradicator ? and Spartan ? and Union ? and Captain Atom ?

Well, Majestic showed enough speed against Helspont to backhand him out of a fight without him being able to react to it, as well as to catch Helspont's hands multiple times so the weapons in them couldn't reach his body. In Majestic's fight with Eradicator he reprograms his mind (by reading and rewriting billions of pieces of information per second) in the middle of their fight. When he fights Spartan, even though he's caught off guard he dodges three punches in succession while trying to talk to him. When he fights Union he sidesteps an energy blast at point blank range. When he fights Captain Atom, not only does he blitz him to start their fight, but he later outraces him and then catches his rage-fueled punch like it wasn't even moving. That's just the fights you brought up. He's fought the combined elders of the Plenary and avoided almost all their attacks even though it was 6 on 1. He's jumped into fights other people were having and caught punches that would have murdered his friends. He's dodged blades in sword fights and caught and dodged projectile attacks. You said if he's as fast as I claim he'd be evading "at least some attacks", well there you go, displays of speed in combat.

There is no part of your speed argument that has any value and until you provide some kind of evidence, that won't change just by you saying the same things over and over.

Okay, Majestic is at the Edge of the Galaxy... now where is it stated he is moving Faster than Light ? Or at Trans Light speeds ? Or that he flew from the Edge of the Galaxy to the Earth and back ? Where is that evidence at ? I mean that is what I was expecting. What you provided really wasn't a speed feat in any light from what I see there.

I think what's foolish is what you are saying... you are basically saying that it's foolish to think Black Adam or Helspont is faster or as fast as a character with no real defined superhuman speed beyond their levels of speed. Yeah, Majestic is fast... but is he FTL or Lightspeed ? I don't see it here... therefore, at best he would be the level lower which is hypersonic... and we know Black Adam is that based on his race with Jay Garrick when he was clocked at mach 500 before he was smoked by that Flash character. You have not provided better speed feats... you provided a scan that doesn't even mention Majestic's speed at all... that's not evidence for anything buddy. I aint whining about anything... you keep saying you have shown Majestic's speed feats... I show you he really does not have them in combat with several opponents he has faced. That's it.

Mhmmmm, and hasn't Helspont hit Majestic with him also not being able to react to it other than getting his face smashed in ? What the heck kind of evidence for combat speed is that man ? Yes, but still hasn't Helspont been able to hit Majestic ? Blocking strikes it not totally combat speed anyways as it could be considered homage to Majestic's skill... now if you had Majestic completely evading Helspont's attacks Money Mayweather style... then you would have a little more there. This Eradicator feat might be his best one... but it only shows he is fast, not so much so that he is too fast to be hit or even that his combat speed is such he can evade all kinds of attacks... I mean you kind of threw that out of the window anyways with him blocking strikes rather than completely evading them with his raw speed... The Spartan feat also attest to Majestic's technique moreso than his speed... you do have to have speed to block strikes... but you don't have to be Wally West fast to block strikes. Ducking strikes is nice... but again, that's moreso technique than anything as well... I mean it's not like Spartan has any speed feats himself to attest to him being someone who is really quick... so Maj dodging them isn't a surprise. But this is better ! That's good with Union... but Union was tagging Majestic a lot as well... so him dodging an Energy Blast is not that great. Now if he dodged multiple blasts and strikes we would have more to work with. This is good... but again, this only shows Majestic is fast... no one is disputing that... it's just his speed in comparison to other characters here... could he just blitz and outmatch Black Adam or Helspont ? The Planetary feats are kind of Fodder as we don't know how fast those characters are anyways. Overall, this maybe your best overall summary of Majestic's skill moreso than his speed though...

My speed argument is still relevant heavily... as the scan you provided does nothing to show that Majestic is actually Lightspeed in Travel or such that his Operational Speed is so superior to Black Adam or Helspont that he can't be touched or attacked or countered. Yeah, you gave examples of Majestic evading attacks... that's good. But it's not a testament to his overall operational speed being such that he is so much faster than anyone else here. I honestly would take Black Adam at mach 500 and battling with Jay Garrick at Superhuman Speeds ( even if he is getting clocked ) as better speed feats than Majestic dodging some strikes from Spartan or evading an Energy Blast from Union or even blitzing in on Captain Atom...

#41 Edited by Buckshot (18710 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn: It doesn't need to state how fast he was moving. Some simple reasoning gives you all the information you need. From dates provided in the comics, the longest possible amount of time he could have been away from Earth was from 1987 to 2000. To get from Earth to the edge of the galaxy would take thousands of years traveling at the speed of light. The longest it could have taken him to go and come back would have been 13 years. You don't need his exact speed in order to know he moved faster than light in order to get out there and back. And of course you're going to say "how do we know that he flew?" even though there's no evidence he did otherwise. Thankfully the last page shows him starting his journey back, and how does he do it? By flying under his own power. A one way trip would take somewhere between 55 and 95 thousand years at the speed of light...and he went and came back in at most, 13 years. But sure, keep trying to downplay it. It really is your own fault for trying to bring a travel speed feat into this. I still don't see the need for it.

You keep saying Majestic doesn't have "defined superhuman speed beyond their levels" but you have yet to show ANY operational speed feat that compares to the feats I pointed you to in the capability thread. Or at all for that matter.

Mhmmmm, and hasn't Helspont hit Majestic with him also not being able to react to it other than getting his face smashed in ? What the heck kind of evidence for combat speed is that man ? Yes, but still hasn't Helspont been able to hit Majestic ? Blocking strikes it not totally combat speed anyways as it could be considered homage to Majestic's skill... now if you had Majestic completely evading Helspont's attacks Money Mayweather style... then you would have a little more there. This Eradicator feat might be his best one... but it only shows he is fast, not so much so that he is too fast to be hit or even that his combat speed is such he can evade all kinds of attacks... I mean you kind of threw that out of the window anyways with him blocking strikes rather than completely evading them with his raw speed... The Spartan feat also attest to Majestic's technique moreso than his speed... you do have to have speed to block strikes... but you don't have to be Wally West fast to block strikes. Ducking strikes is nice... but again, that's moreso technique than anything as well... I mean it's not like Spartan has any speed feats himself to attest to him being someone who is really quick... so Maj dodging them isn't a surprise. But this is better ! That's good with Union... but Union was tagging Majestic a lot as well... so him dodging an Energy Blast is not that great. Now if he dodged multiple blasts and strikes we would have more to work with. This is good... but again, this only shows Majestic is fast... no one is disputing that... it's just his speed in comparison to other characters here... could he just blitz and outmatch Black Adam or Helspont ? The Planetary feats are kind of Fodder as we don't know how fast those characters are anyways. Overall, this maybe your best overall summary of Majestic's skill moreso than his speed though...

And the above paragraph is a pretty great example of how far your inconsistency has gone. First you say that Majestic doesn't have feats that put him at lightspeed. So I give you operational speed feats that put him at light speed or above. Then you said if Majestic had the speed I said, he would avoid attacks. So I gave you examples of that and you attempt to downplay them. Then you say blocking attacks doesn't mean anything for speed but (lemme just use your own words here) "if you had Majestic completely evading Helspont's attacks Money Mayweather style... then you would have a little more there". Then when I give you examples of that you say it doesn't mean much for speed either. So to sum up, when I show you Majestic operating quickly you say its not a combat feat. And when I show you Majestic operating quickly in combat in exactly the way you ask for, you say its a skill feat not a speed feat. You are clearly unable to accept anything that doesn't fit into ideas you've already constructed.

Lemme make it clearer:

if you had Majestic completely evading Helspont's attacks Money Mayweather style... then you would have a little more there


But of course, even when I give you exactly what you ask for you downplay it. And you CONTINUE to present absolutely no evidence of comparable operational speed for anyone on the other team. The BEST you can come up with is a travel speed feat for Black Adam (one which, even if it weren't totally useless because travel speed is irrelevant, would be totally useless because Majestic's travel speed is far greater) and an unquantifiable speed feat of him getting beat up by the slowest Flash. You've got nothing for Helspont and nothing usable for Black Adam. All you can do is repeatedly deny that Majestic has displayed far greater speed than both of them and hope that your word makes it true if you say it loud enough and believe hard enough.

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#42 Edited by King Saturn (226098 posts) - - Show Bio

@buckshot said:

@king_saturn: It doesn't need to state how fast he was moving. Some simple reasoning gives you all the information you need. From dates provided in the comics, the longest possible amount of time he could have been away from Earth was from 1987 to 2000. To get from Earth to the edge of the galaxy would take thousands of years traveling at the speed of light. The longest it could have taken him to go and come back would have been 13 years. You don't need his exact speed in order to know he moved faster than light in order to get out there and back. And of course you're going to say "how do we know that he flew?" even though there's no evidence he did otherwise. Thankfully the last page shows him starting his journey back, and how does he do it? By flying under his own power. A one way trip would take somewhere between 55 and 95 thousand years at the speed of light...and he went and came back in at most, 13 years. But sure, keep trying to downplay it. It really is your own fault for trying to bring a travel speed feat into this. I still don't see the need for it.

You keep saying Majestic doesn't have "defined superhuman speed beyond their levels" but you have yet to show ANY operational speed feat that compares to the feats I pointed you to in the capability thread. Or at all for that matter.

Mhmmmm, and hasn't Helspont hit Majestic with him also not being able to react to it other than getting his face smashed in ? What the heck kind of evidence for combat speed is that man ? Yes, but still hasn't Helspont been able to hit Majestic ? Blocking strikes it not totally combat speed anyways as it could be considered homage to Majestic's skill... now if you had Majestic completely evading Helspont's attacks Money Mayweather style... then you would have a little more there. This Eradicator feat might be his best one... but it only shows he is fast, not so much so that he is too fast to be hit or even that his combat speed is such he can evade all kinds of attacks... I mean you kind of threw that out of the window anyways with him blocking strikes rather than completely evading them with his raw speed... The Spartan feat also attest to Majestic's technique moreso than his speed... you do have to have speed to block strikes... but you don't have to be Wally West fast to block strikes. Ducking strikes is nice... but again, that's moreso technique than anything as well... I mean it's not like Spartan has any speed feats himself to attest to him being someone who is really quick... so Maj dodging them isn't a surprise. But this is better ! That's good with Union... but Union was tagging Majestic a lot as well... so him dodging an Energy Blast is not that great. Now if he dodged multiple blasts and strikes we would have more to work with. This is good... but again, this only shows Majestic is fast... no one is disputing that... it's just his speed in comparison to other characters here... could he just blitz and outmatch Black Adam or Helspont ? The Planetary feats are kind of Fodder as we don't know how fast those characters are anyways. Overall, this maybe your best overall summary of Majestic's skill moreso than his speed though...

And the above paragraph is a pretty great example of how far your inconsistency has gone. First you say that Majestic doesn't have feats that put him at lightspeed. So I give you operational speed feats that put him at light speed or above. Then you said if Majestic had the speed I said, he would avoid attacks. So I gave you examples of that and you attempt to downplay them. Then you say blocking attacks doesn't mean anything for speed but (lemme just use your own words here) "if you had Majestic completely evading Helspont's attacks Money Mayweather style... then you would have a little more there". Then when I give you examples of that you say it doesn't mean much for speed either. So to sum up, when I show you Majestic operating quickly you say its not a combat feat. And when I show you Majestic operating quickly in combat in exactly the way you ask for, you say its a skill feat not a speed feat. You are clearly unable to accept anything that doesn't fit into ideas you've already constructed.

Lemme make it clearer:

if you had Majestic completely evading Helspont's attacks Money Mayweather style... then you would have a little more there

But of course, even when I give you exactly what you ask for you downplay it. And you CONTINUE to present absolutely no evidence of comparable operational speed for anyone on the other team. The BEST you can come up with is a travel speed feat for Black Adam (one which, even if it weren't totally useless because travel speed is irrelevant, would be totally useless because Majestic's travel speed is far greater) and an unquantifiable speed feat of him getting beat up by the slowest Flash. You've got nothing for Helspont and nothing usable for Black Adam. All you can do is repeatedly deny that Majestic has displayed far greater speed than both of them and hope that your word makes it true if you say it loud enough and believe hard enough.

1. Where are you getting these numbers from dude ? What is implied at all from that scan or any scan that Majestic is flying Faster than Light or Trans Light speeds ? I mean it can't be that hard to show it if it's actually happened. The majority of all scans of characters flying Faster than Light implies it right within the captions... yet, I see nothing to boot for Majestic's proposed Trans Light moving speeds. You need to provide more information or something dude. This just aint cutting it... I mean even the math you are trying to do has nothing behind it to boot for it now.

2. No, basically what you did is side stepped the Faster than Light argument with some bogus scan and then went on to Operational Speed feats... yeah, some of them are good Operation Speed feats... none of them show Majestic is FTL or Trans Light in speed though... the combat feats are good... but since Majestic gets hits quite a bit it only shows conclusively that Majestic's skill is such he can sustain a back and forth with a DC Heavyhitter without getting hit all the time. This isn't about inconsistency at all... it's about getting to the root of what Majestic is capable of... Yeah, it's coming from different angles... but speed is measured in different ways... Operational and Travel... so I can't just harp on one and not the other as both are of importance to the discussion. Well I said some of the feats you showed was more skill than just speed... Majestic dodging some of Spartan's punches is nice... but since Spartan is not one with speed feats himself then it only shows Majestic is Fast... we already know he is that. Also, technically you showed Majestic dodging Spartan and not Helspont... yeah, it's nitpicking but since Helspont is more relevant to our discussion here I figured I would throw it our there as you seem to want to make it a point Majestic can dodge punches in battle.

3. What you gave was a useless scan that shows nothing of Majestic's FTL speed ( I mean heck if you was just gonna spout out numbers to state that Majestic was FTL in travel you could have done that without the useless scan ) and then you showed Majestic dodging some strikes from a character who also has little to no speed feats himself ( Spartan )... so I don't understand what exactly you did here other than show Majestic can dodge some strikes sometimes... it's still not conclusive that he could outspeed Black Adam or even Helspont... not by those scans. I only downplay what you show because it's not that great really...

4. Well that so called unquantifable speed feat from Black Adam has him moving at better combat speeds than what you have shown for Majestic so far... Yeah, the speeds are undefined in the scans... but we know that this particular Flash is Lightspeed and Black Adam is Hypersonic in speed... yeah, Jay was giving Black Adam the business but Jay is Faster obviously... and until we can get something solid in favor of Majestic's combat speed other than him dodging Spartan's punches or blocking strikes... we can't even be certain that Majestic is nearly as fast as Jay Garrick. I mean really the blitzing Captain Atom feat might have been the best thing you brought up as far as combat speed... but that don't really put Red and White ahead of Black Adam... they basically have comparable speed.

5. As far as your last line... the same is applied to you. I mean you can state than Majestic is faster than Black Adam as much as you like... you can post irrelevant scans to the thread as well... but it doesn't really prove anything other than Majestic is Fast and he has Skill... but that was never a problem anyways. It's just what is it that makes Majestic faster than Black Adam or Helspont ? I have not seen it yet...

#43 Edited by Buckshot (18710 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn: Where am I getting what from? The distance from Earth to the edge of the Milky Way? You can look that up yourself. The longest possible amount of time Majestic was away from Earth? I told you they come from dates given in the comic. If you want to read it yourself, purchase the book. The comic clearly shows Majestic flying away from Earth and heading out to where he is pictured there. Then it shows him there. Then it shows him start flying back. With the distance he traveled, his presence at the far point, and the amount of time he had in which to travel, all it takes is basic math to get a good idea of how fast he had to be going.

Here's a bonus travel speed feat:

Majestic travels from Langley, Virginia to this spot in California in about 4 seconds. That's a distance of 2330 miles as the crow flies. That's more than 2,000,000 miles per hour. Even if he flew from his Rushmore base (since there's a slight chance that was the starting point) that's 1,065 miles. 958,500 miles per hour. Either measure is above Black Adam's mach 500 speed (380,603mph).

I've sidestepped nothing. You, on the other hand, sidestepped actually presenting evidence of quantifiable speed feats approaching any of Majestic's.

I was going to lock the thread since you've gone for a page without actually being able to support your position and show no signs of stopping, but I thought of something better.

Provide an example of Black Adam or Helspont processing and manipulating information this quickly.

Provide an example of Black Adam or Helspont reacting this quickly.

Provide an example of Black Adam or Helspont performing actions of this complexity at this speed.

I told you to look up these feats in Majestic's capability thread. I later added a feat showing Majestic had traveled many times faster than light. I told you to find me feats for Helspont (and Black Adam) that come anywhere close to matching these. I'm giving you another chance.

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#44 Edited by King Saturn (226098 posts) - - Show Bio

@buckshot said:

@king_saturn: Where am I getting what from? The distance from Earth to the edge of the Milky Way? You can look that up yourself. The longest possible amount of time Majestic was away from Earth? I told you they come from dates given in the comic. If you want to read it yourself, purchase the book. The comic clearly shows Majestic flying away from Earth and heading out to where he is pictured there. Then it shows him there. Then it shows him start flying back. With the distance he traveled, his presence at the far point, and the amount of time he had in which to travel, all it takes is basic math to get a good idea of how fast he had to be going.

Here's a bonus travel speed feat:

Majestic travels from Langley, Virginia to this spot in California in about 4 seconds. That's a distance of 2330 miles as the crow flies. That's more than 2,000,000 miles per hour. Even if he flew from his Rushmore base (since there's a slight chance that was the starting point) that's 1,065 miles. 958,500 miles per hour. Either measure is above Black Adam's mach 500 speed (380,603mph).

I've sidestepped nothing. You, on the other hand, sidestepped actually presenting evidence of quantifiable speed feats approaching any of Majestic's.

I was going to lock the thread since you've gone for a page without actually being able to support your position and show no signs of stopping, but I thought of something better.

Provide an example of Black Adam or Helspont processing and manipulating information this quickly.

Provide an example of Black Adam or Helspont reacting this quickly.

Provide an example of Black Adam or Helspont performing actions of this complexity at this speed.

I told you to look up these feats in Majestic's capability thread. I later added a feat showing Majestic had traveled many times faster than light. I told you to find me feats for Helspont (and Black Adam) that come anywhere close to matching these. I'm giving you another chance.

1. So you still can't provide the Trans Light speed feats for Majestic eh ? No surprise... so we will deal with what you have shown here so far.

2. Where is the rest of the scan ? Where is it showing where Majestic traveled from to where he is now. Yeah, I see the 3.9 seconds... but from where ? Need more information please. But this is Better !

3. The processing billions of pieces of information seems more of a testament to Majestic's super intelligence than his actually operational speed in combat. It's good but it's not really what we are looking for. Black Adam would not have feats like this as he is not a Super Intellect.

4. The Spartan Feat is Good...

5. Well, I have looked in Majestic threads and none of them really have Faster than Light feats for him outside of that Trans Light speed feat he has with the Space Flight Apparatus. This one fragmented scan you have could be vital though as it would give me a point of reference to work from.

6. Provide evidence for what ? We are still stuck on Majestic being Hypersonic until we can get more information at least about that scan you provided... I mean I would have expected to see the whole thing considering it's a travel speed feat that supposedly puts Majestic in the Light Speed class... but where is the rest of it ? You usually don't have to work so hard to prove Superman or Silver Surfer or several other characters are moving FTL because the captions make it so obvious that's what is happening. So why so much work for Mr. Red and White if he is such a Trans Light traveling being ?

So basically we are at the point of Majestic still being this Hypersonic speed character as the scan does not prove he is Faster than Light... Light travels over 600,000,000 miles per hour... and even if I gave you the figures of the feat you posted above... 2,000,000 is no where near 600,000,000 ( travel speed of light in mph )... but it's good. So really, until you give the full scan of the actual travel feat... I will stand by the mach 500 of Black Adam since it has not been really disproven as lower in value than what you have shown in favor of Majestic so far. You can lock the thread if you want... but essentially I will accept that as your concession as you are either unwilling to provide the full extent of what you claim as proof of Majestic's superior speed or just tired of debating.

#45 Edited by Buckshot (18710 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn: Aaaaaaand that's what I expected from you. The points of travel are clearly given in each comic and because I don't feel the need to post 4 extra pages just to establish basic location information, you deny its existence even though you've still presented not a single bit of evidence to support your case.

But since you're being childish, above are 4 boring scans with location information. The first two show Majestic flying out to and back from the edge of the galaxy. His origin is clearly Earth. The second two are Majestic in a location with a clear identification and then the page before he leaves saying he's going to leave.

As for the rest, you simply have nothing to compare with examples of how fast Majestic can think and operate.

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#46 Edited by King Saturn (226098 posts) - - Show Bio

@buckshot said:

@king_saturn: Aaaaaaand that's what I expected from you. The points of travel are clearly given in each comic and because I don't feel the need to post 4 extra pages just to establish basic location information, you deny its existence even though you've still presented not a single bit of evidence to support your case.

But since you're being childish, above are 4 boring scans with location information. The first two show Majestic flying out to and back from the edge of the galaxy. His origin is clearly Earth. The second two are Majestic in a location with a clear identification and then the page before he leaves saying he's going to leave.

As for the rest, you simply have nothing to compare with examples of how fast Majestic can think and operate.

I can't provide evidence to support any case until an argument is developed for Majestic's speed first... since it was not really shown how fast Majestic at his full speed can move... it's impossible to set up a case for that which is unknown or undefined... this is why I have been drilling you for the evidence. You already know my position so I don't understand why it's so hard to see what I am trying to do here. Get a base for Majestic's speed and then from there assessments can be made for Black Adam or Helspont. So lets see what you have here...

Alright now maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me... but where exactly is the edge of the galaxy stated in those scans ? I see Majestic traveling fast into space from the Earth but where into space and at what speed ? Okay as far as the last two... all we need now is Majestic flying from that particular site in Virginia... that would help a lot.

I have nothing to compare with how fast Majestic thinks... operation might be different... as Black Adam can fight with Flash up to Hypersonic speeds...

So we are still in the dark about Majestic's overall full speed... you may think I am being childish... but I would expect you to act the same way if I posted fragmented scans of a character and did not give you the full picture of what he can do.

#47 Posted by King Saturn (226098 posts) - - Show Bio

@buckshot said:

@king_saturn: Aaaaaaand that's what I expected from you. The points of travel are clearly given in each comic and because I don't feel the need to post 4 extra pages just to establish basic location information, you deny its existence even though you've still presented not a single bit of evidence to support your case.

But since you're being childish, above are 4 boring scans with location information. The first two show Majestic flying out to and back from the edge of the galaxy. His origin is clearly Earth. The second two are Majestic in a location with a clear identification and then the page before he leaves saying he's going to leave.

As for the rest, you simply have nothing to compare with examples of how fast Majestic can think and operate.

Oh yeah, and on a side note... Black Adam maybe a little faster than Mach 500.

If you notice in the first scan the caption says that "at mach 500 Black Adam's strength Begins to flag"... but it's not saying he is totally maxed out or can't move any faster... it's not until after Jay reaches 186,000 miles per second that we see Black Adam stumbling in the next scan... so Black Adam might be a lot closer if not Light Speed based on these overall observations from the scans.

Something to think about... since "I Never Provide Any Evidence" as you say...

#48 Edited by Buckshot (18710 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn: You shouldn't need me to do anything before you can prove how fast the characters of the other team are with quantifiable speed feats. Its the same reason I can show majestics speed even though youve not presented anything.

The image I posted before shows majestic beyond the milky way. I dont need to show majestic taking off from virginia. He was there and you see him having just flown to California four seconds later.

Youve gone for a page without making a point, and that's because you have no argument.

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#49 Posted by Bruxae (14587 posts) - - Show Bio

BA owns Marvel, then teams up with helspont vs majestic. Team 1 wins. Marvel is the weak link here.

#50 Posted by Buckshot (18710 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn: it took you this long to present evidence. Too bad its a feat of travel speed which is irrelevant. Its also a feat thats far inferior to majestics so its irrelevant for another reason. And still more, its a feat for black adam and you still have nothing for helspont.

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