Hawkeye vs Deadshot

"@Strafe Prower said:

"

And I am sure Deadshot, is not Bullseye level accuracy either. "

1) That's not 616.2) Yes, he is.  I'm sure of this.  He has displayed this with guns several times.    Strafe, it won't be easy with a stream of ACCURATE bullets and rockets heading towards Clint's head/body. "

I know, hence the lol, because it was a joke.

Just because he can shoot a gun accurate does not make him as accurate as bullseye who use anything around him at almost a 100% accuracy. Punisher is a master with guns and is as accurate with them as Deadshot, but is not even close to Bullseye.

Who's to say Clint doesn't shoot an arrow in the barrel of his guns while in the air, because he has done this before.

Like I've said...Go read Deadshot and then you'll see ;)
If I had scans, I'd gladly post them, but I do not.  There's probably a few "Deadshot appreciation/respect" forums floating around the net. 

Unless Deadshot has Peak human reflexes and speed (At Least)  he isn't going to be dodging explosive arrows without some damage. Clint is as accurate with his bow, or more so, than deadshot is with his guns. Hawkeye has faced guns on a daily basis, and doesn't often get tagged. Also Clint has a brilliant Strategic mind, and won't be just dodging. This is why I think Clint will win.

I don't see why he wouldn't.  From what I understand, he's tagged a character with superhuman speed and has displayed superhuman reaction...Thus, making his time to aim faster than Hawkeye...Not to mention he'll be firing bullets and rockets at the same time with lethal accuracy.  I'm aware he's a tactical genius, but if he's out in the open for over 3 seconds, i'd say he's toast.

Clint has tagged and beat alot more than just one super human with super reflexs Not to mention he has plenty of things for cover so he could devise a plan for the win. Clint has gas arrows and things of that nature as well. I can see Clint lasting long enough to make a plan and execute it.

"

Clint has tagged and beat alot more than just one super human with super reflexs Not to mention he has plenty of things for cover so he could devise a plan for the win. Clint has gas arrows and things of that nature as well. I can see Clint lasting long enough to make a plan and execute it.

"

It's been establish in many debates and agreed upon that Bullseye possesses a greater level of accuracy.  Deadshot, is on par in accuracy with Bullseye. Of course he doesnt use anything as a weapon, I mean with guns and such.

"@Strafe Prower said:

"

Clint has tagged and beat alot more than just one super human with super reflexs Not to mention he has plenty of things for cover so he could devise a plan for the win. Clint has gas arrows and things of that nature as well. I can see Clint lasting long enough to make a plan and execute it.

"

I'm well aware about Clint and his abilities....Same with Deadshot.  Clints advantages:-Tactical edge-Variety of arrows-Better hand to hand combatantDeadshot's advantages:-Nearky flawless accuracy-Armor which provides protection from medium caliber rounds and explosives-Ruthless and willing to instantly kill-Gauntlet on hand provides easier aiming abilities with an automatic weapon and small rockets "

"@k4tzm4n said:

"@Strafe Prower said:

"

Clint has tagged and beat alot more than just one super human with super reflexs Not to mention he has plenty of things for cover so he could devise a plan for the win. Clint has gas arrows and things of that nature as well. I can see Clint lasting long enough to make a plan and execute it.

"

I'm well aware about Clint and his abilities....Same with Deadshot.  Clints advantages:-Tactical edge-Variety of arrows-Better hand to hand combatantDeadshot's advantages:-Nearky flawless accuracy-Armor which provides protection from medium caliber rounds and explosives-Ruthless and willing to instantly kill-Gauntlet on hand provides easier aiming abilities with an automatic weapon and small rockets "

you also forgot nearly flawless accuracy on Clint.  Ok, so how does any of that keep Clint from getting a K.O. on Deadshot by use of knockout gas or something else. "

We haven't.  And in my opinion, Clint does have as impressive feats as Deadshot.

I have seen that thread and haven't seen anything that makes me think he is more accurate then Clint. Clint disarms usless thugs all the time by use of arrows.

"I have seen that thread and haven't seen anything that makes me think he is more accurate then Clint. Clint disarms usless thugs all the time by use of arrows. "

EDIT: Ok, he shot someone that couldn't dodge if they wanted to, so impressive.

Green arrow got his arrow in the perfect place, deadshot didn't dodge it, he used a mailbox.  He shoots a string(GA should have dodge that), and shot a arrow, which is somewhat impressive, unless there are multiple arrows coming at him.

By the way, I Think Clint is better and more accurate than Oliver.

Also, GA got close enough for H2H which Clint specializes in.

Nothing I don't see Clint handling.

....Like already stated, there's more than one page, so check out past that.  It's like viewing a Hawkeye fan page and only looking at the scans where he shoots a bunch of Kree (was it kree?) in Avengers Disassembled.

If those scans above were supposed to be feats..they really aren't.

"....Like already stated, there's more than one page, so check out past that.  It's like viewing a Hawkeye fan page and only looking at the scans where he shoots a bunch of Kree (was it kree?) in Avengers Disassembled. "

Hawkeye would win this.

How is shooting the string of green arrow's weapon NOT a feat?  Also, how is shooting an incoming arrow at what looks like only 20-30 street not a feat?  Also, it's like you're intentionally selling them short.  He was falling from a moving train and still pulled a headshot.  Take a second to think about that.  Here's some more while you're thinking ;)

READ THE DIALOGUE HERE...He's not trying to kill him.  Read.

the first one isn't impressive at all considering they started like a foot apart.

The second one is your basic PIS, unless Deadshot knew when he was going to shoot. He would have to have super senses or speed/reflexes to do that.

The third one is quite impressive, there will just be alot of cover in the fight, so i wouldn't count on him using that much.

The forth one is to close to call an accuracy feat.

@k4tzm4n the first wave of scans you posted were feats that people that don't have incredible accuracy have done in comics.

"the first one isn't impressive at all considering they started like a foot apart.The second one is your basic PIS, unless Deadshot knew when he was going to shoot. He would have to have super senses or speed/reflexes to do that.The third one is quite impressive, there will just be alot of cover in the fight, so i wouldn't count on him using that much.The forth one is to close to call an accuracy feat."

"@k4tzm4n the first wave of scans you posted were feats that people that don't have incredible accuracy have done in comics."

" @k4tzm4n the first wave of scans you posted were feats that people that don't have incredible accuracy have done in comics. "

"@Captain Danvers said:

" @k4tzm4n the first wave of scans you posted were feats that people that don't have incredible accuracy have done in comics. "

The second wave too.This is nowhere near Bullseye's level.This is like Punisher\Elektral level accuracy feats"

"@Strafe Prower said:

"the first one isn't impressive at all considering they started like a foot apart.The second one is your basic PIS, unless Deadshot knew when he was going to shoot. He would have to have super senses or speed/reflexes to do that.The third one is quite impressive, there will just be alot of cover in the fight, so i wouldn't count on him using that much.The forth one is to close to call an accuracy feat."

-.....It's a character withsuper speed....Post Hawkeye doing the same and then talk down about it. 
-It's not PIS if you research the character before debating.
-That just grants him the ability to arc even more shots, IMO.-I didn't label it as an accuracy feat, just a feat. "

" @Riot 9 said:

"@Captain Danvers said:

" @k4tzm4n the first wave of scans you posted were feats that people that don't have incredible accuracy have done in comics. "

The second wave too.This is nowhere near Bullseye's level.This is like Punisher\Elektral level accuracy feats"

Punisher tagging a speedster, doding a sniper rifle shot by hearing it?....The ONLY Punisher feat here is taking on a bullet proof guy.  Seriously guys, do you have ANY proof? "

"@k4tzm4n said:

"@Strafe Prower said:

"the first one isn't impressive at all considering they started like a foot apart.The second one is your basic PIS, unless Deadshot knew when he was going to shoot. He would have to have super senses or speed/reflexes to do that.The third one is quite impressive, there will just be alot of cover in the fight, so i wouldn't count on him using that much.The forth one is to close to call an accuracy feat."

-.....It's a character withsuper speed....Post Hawkeye doing the same and then talk down about it. 
-It's not PIS if you research the character before debating.
-That just grants him the ability to arc even more shots, IMO.-I didn't label it as an accuracy feat, just a feat. "

Really? Hawkeye took a whole team of Meta-Human former villians Called the Thunderbolts. Schooled them, some of which could fly and one had rockets. He dodged them with ease.No daredevil I understand doing that, not A normal human.I doubt that any of them would hit a moving target with cover though.Irrelevant. "

" @k4tzm4n said:

"@Strafe Prower said:

"the first one isn't impressive at all considering they started like a foot apart.The second one is your basic PIS, unless Deadshot knew when he was going to shoot. He would have to have super senses or speed/reflexes to do that.The third one is quite impressive, there will just be alot of cover in the fight, so i wouldn't count on him using that much.The forth one is to close to call an accuracy feat."

-.....It's a character withsuper speed....Post Hawkeye doing the same and then talk down about it. 
-It's not PIS if you research the character before debating.
-That just grants him the ability to arc even more shots, IMO.-I didn't label it as an accuracy feat, just a feat. "

Really? Hawkeye took a whole team of Meta-Human former villians Called the Thunderbolts. Schooled them, some of which could fly and one had rockets. He dodged them with ease.No daredevil I understand doing that, not A normal human.I doubt that any of them would hit a moving target with cover though.Irrelevant. "

"@k4tzm4n said:

" @Riot 9 said:

"@Captain Danvers said:

" @k4tzm4n the first wave of scans you posted were feats that people that don't have incredible accuracy have done in comics. "

The second wave too.This is nowhere near Bullseye's level.This is like Punisher\Elektral level accuracy feats"

Punisher tagging a speedster, doding a sniper rifle shot by hearing it?....The ONLY Punisher feat here is taking on a bullet proof guy.  Seriously guys, do you have ANY proof? "

Dodging a shot isn't an accuracy feat so I wasn't talking about that.The rest of this stuff isn't Bullseye level or even Clint level except for where he tags a speedster.I don't really know how fast the character is.They both have tagged people with superhuman speed."

" @Strafe Prower said:

"@k4tzm4n said:

"@Strafe Prower said:

"the first one isn't impressive at all considering they started like a foot apart.The second one is your basic PIS, unless Deadshot knew when he was going to shoot. He would have to have super senses or speed/reflexes to do that.The third one is quite impressive, there will just be alot of cover in the fight, so i wouldn't count on him using that much.The forth one is to close to call an accuracy feat."

-.....It's a character withsuper speed....Post Hawkeye doing the same and then talk down about it. 
-It's not PIS if you research the character before debating.
-That just grants him the ability to arc even more shots, IMO.-I didn't label it as an accuracy feat, just a feat. "

Really? Hawkeye took a whole team of Meta-Human former villians Called the Thunderbolts. Schooled them, some of which could fly and one had rockets. He dodged them with ease.No daredevil I understand doing that, not A normal human.I doubt that any of them would hit a moving target with cover though.Irrelevant. "

You say irrelevant, yet you cite ONE example and don't even provide scans from the bout.  For all we know, there were other factors in play.  Where-as I have proven that:
-Deadshot has top notch accuracy and can do trick shots
-Deadshot doesn't hesitate to kill -Deadshot has enhanced vision-Deadshot has enhanced sound-Deadshot has the reaction timing to dodge a sniper shot, shoot the small string of an arrow, and even an incoming arrow.Your argument:-Hawkeye took on the Thunderbolts.Guess what?  Deadshot Vol. 2, Deadshot takes on about 8 or so super villains/heroes. "

Deadshot should win this.

WHat have you shown that makes Clint impressive?  Oh, right...Nothing =)

I'm sick of writing the same stuff over and over and over and over....So I'll copy and paste it:

-Deadshot has top notch accuracy and can do trick shots
-Deadshot doesn't hesitate to kill
-Deadshot has enhanced vision
-Deadshot has enhanced sound
-Deadshot has the reaction timing to dodge a sniper shot, shoot the small string of an arrow, and even an incoming arrow
-Deadshot can pull headshots without even looking

" @Riot 9 said:

"@k4tzm4n said:

" @Riot 9 said:

"@Captain Danvers said:

" @k4tzm4n the first wave of scans you posted were feats that people that don't have incredible accuracy have done in comics. "

The second wave too.This is nowhere near Bullseye's level.This is like Punisher\Elektral level accuracy feats"

Punisher tagging a speedster, doding a sniper rifle shot by hearing it?....The ONLY Punisher feat here is taking on a bullet proof guy.  Seriously guys, do you have ANY proof? "

Dodging a shot isn't an accuracy feat so I wasn't talking about that.The rest of this stuff isn't Bullseye level or even Clint level except for where he tags a speedster.I don't really know how fast the character is.They both have tagged people with superhuman speed."

Scans.  It's that simple.
-Yes, it WAS that level.  He got 2 headshots without even LOOKING and relying on sound.  He also did a quick turn, dodged a sniper rifle shot and pulled a headshot all at once.  It's like you guys refuse to accept feats, even when displayed right in front of you.  Still waiting on scans to show Hawkeye is better than those provided.  It's sad since Hawkeye has appeared in  at least 10 times as many issues.ULTIMATE Hawkeye would provide a better challenge (pre-suicidal actions, that is) "

"

WHat have you shown that makes Clint impressive?  Oh, right...Nothing =)

I'm sick of writing the same stuff over and over and over and over....So I'll copy and paste it:

-Deadshot has top notch accuracy and can do trick shots
-Deadshot doesn't hesitate to kill
-Deadshot has enhanced vision
-Deadshot has enhanced sound
-Deadshot has the reaction timing to dodge a sniper shot, shoot the small string of an arrow, and even an incoming arrow
-Deadshot can pull headshots without even looking

"

Riot 9.  How are they irrelevant?  Ask anyone with a neutral opinion and I highly doubt they would feel the same way.

Hitting a guy WHILE DEADSHOT is falling off a train.  Think of the math.  He falls while a train moving at least 90 MPH in the opposite direction, still pulls a headshot.  Taking down the bulletproof guy was a tactical feat.  HOW is disarming Green Arrow a joke?  All you do is bash, yet say absolutely nothing to support Clint in this. 

As far as I'm concerned, this debate has come to an end until someone can actually support their reasoning, instead of just trying to bash clear feats.

"@k4tzm4n said:

"

Riot 9.  How are they irrelevant?  Ask anyone with a neutral opinion and I highly doubt they would feel the same way.

Hitting a guy WHILE DEADSHOT is falling off a train.  Think of the math.  He falls while a train moving at least 90 MPH in the opposite direction, still pulls a headshot.  Taking down the bulletproof guy was a tactical feat.  HOW is disarming Green Arrow a joke?  All you do is bash, yet say absolutely nothing to support Clint in this. 

"

Neutral opinion? I didn't even say Deadshot would lose.My only response was to you acting as if Deadshot's accuracy is above Clint's by being on par with Bullseye's.Bullseye could do all of these feats with absolutely no problem.

Hitting a guy while falling off a train isn't a great feat.Deadshot is a marksman.Just because he was falling doesn't mean the opponents head wasn't still directly in his sight.

Disarming Green Arrow is a joke because Ollie isn't that skilled and he has no superhuman attributes.

Taking down a bulletproof guy isn't a good tactical feat because the character through himself into everything he got hit with.It wasn't Cage or someone with actual skills.

"

Second death on 3rd page:
-March 1 with horrible aim.  Deadshot, clearly wouldn't miss.

"@k4tzm4n said:

" @Riot 9 said:

"@k4tzm4n said:

"

Riot 9.  How are they irrelevant?  Ask anyone with a neutral opinion and I highly doubt they would feel the same way.

Hitting a guy WHILE DEADSHOT is falling off a train.  Think of the math.  He falls while a train moving at least 90 MPH in the opposite direction, still pulls a headshot.  Taking down the bulletproof guy was a tactical feat.  HOW is disarming Green Arrow a joke?  All you do is bash, yet say absolutely nothing to support Clint in this. 

"

Neutral opinion? I didn't even say Deadshot would lose.My only response was to you acting as if Deadshot's accuracy is above Clint's by being on par with Bullseye's.Bullseye could do all of these feats with absolutely no problem.

Hitting a guy while falling off a train isn't a great feat.Deadshot is a marksman.Just because he was falling doesn't mean the opponents head wasn't still directly in his sight.

Disarming Green Arrow is a joke because Ollie isn't that skilled and he has no superhuman attributes.

Taking down a bulletproof guy isn't a good tactical feat because the character through himself into everything he got hit with.It wasn't Cage or someone with actual skills.

"

Clearly you need to pay better attention.-The train is MOVING....This is simple physics.-Read the dialogue again.  Deadshot's suit provides him with enhanced hearing the the ability to see EVERY flap of a HUMMINGBIRD'S wings.VS Thunderbolts.  That very first panel of him fighting = DEATH.  The only reason he lived that was because of Songbird.  Insta fail.  I'd like to see him use an incoming rocket or bullet to his advantage. "

I KNOW THE TRAIN IS MOVING.The feat is still mediocre.

Deadshot's suit also provides him with advantages other marksman don't have which makes his feats that much more weaker.He has great vision,so no matter how fast he's falling if he can see his target he should be able to hit it.

I wasn't trying to prove anything with the scans of Hawkeye vs. the Thunderbolts,I posted it because Strafe Power brought it up but didn't post the scans and I had them.

This is all I am saying in response to your argument.You can't say that Deadshot's aim is an advantage for him and not for Clint.They are both great marksman.He also has no feats comparable to Bullseye as far as I have seen so to say he's better than Clint because he's on Bullseye's level is bogus.I do however agree Bullseye is a better marksman than Clint.

As far as this fight goes.It's hard to say what will happen without creating a scenario.We don't know how far from each other these two are.If it comes down to strategy.Clint has the advanatage.If this fight starts in close quarters,Hawkeye is dead.Not because Deadshot is a better marksman but because of the difference in weaponry.Deadshot with his reflexes will have shot Clint several times before he can draw can arrow back.

"

"@k4tzm4n said:

Actually, yes I can say that.  The whole point of listing advantages is to say who is superior in what category.  Hawkeye is a great marksmen, no doubt, but Deadshot is superior IMO.  THus, why I gave him that advantage...And as you can see Barton still has a clear h2h edge and tactical edge due to his experience on the Avengers.  It doesn't matter what his suit aids him with, the fact is he's wearing it here so it applies.  Bullseye's accuracy feats are normally "bogus" because he can use certain objects with lethal force "

I still don't see how Deashot has the advantage in marksmanship.Even if Deadshot has better marksmanship ability than Hawkeye (which I doubt),I don't think there will be an situation in which accuracy will be a factor. "