Harley Quinn vs Barbara Gordon (Read OP)

@CitizenBane said:

Eh, quite honestly this is pretty even. I'm going to say Babs wins barely, as long as no one brings up the time Harley held her own against Dick, Tim and Cass at the same time.

Someone already brought it up so so much for that. :p

@CitizenBane said:

Eh, quite honestly this is pretty even. I'm going to say Babs wins barely, as long as no one brings up the time Harley held her own against Dick, Tim and Cass at the same time.

Someone already brought it up so so much for that. :p

@Erik said:

@CitizenBane said:

Eh, quite honestly this is pretty even. I'm going to say Babs wins barely, as long as no one brings up the time Harley held her own against Dick, Tim and Cass at the same time.

Someone already brought it up so so much for that. :p

That's what I get for just jumping in.

@RainEffect said:

@Erik said:

@CitizenBane said:

Eh, quite honestly this is pretty even. I'm going to say Babs wins barely, as long as no one brings up the time Harley held her own against Dick, Tim and Cass at the same time.

Someone already brought it up so so much for that. :p

When the hell did this happen?

Her solo series, it was filled with fan service. She punked Batman, hit Croc in the nuts with a hammer, and survived an explosion that Bizarro pulled her into without even a scratch.

@RainEffect said:

@Erik said:

@CitizenBane said:

Eh, quite honestly this is pretty even. I'm going to say Babs wins barely, as long as no one brings up the time Harley held her own against Dick, Tim and Cass at the same time.

Someone already brought it up so so much for that. :p

When the hell did this happen?

Her solo series, it was filled with fan service. She punked Batman, hit Croc in the nuts with a hammer, and survived an explosion that Bizarro pulled her into without even a scratch.

As Batgirls go,

Steph > Cass > Helena > Babs (was better as Oracle).

As Batgirls go,

Steph > Cass > Helena > Babs (was better as Oracle).

@RainEffect said:

@CitizenBane said:

As Batgirls go,

Steph > Cass > Helena > Babs (was better as Oracle).

Fanboy. xD But seriously, what has Steph done to earn that top spot? Aside from being the most likable/relate-able.

Saved Gotham when the Calculator set the Anti-Life equation on everyone, saved Dick's life, saved London with Squire, infiltrated the School of Night for Batman, some other stuff I can't recall offhand.

Helena didn't do anything for Batman Inc as far as I know.

Also, when Steph yells "Shazam!", Supergirl, Miss Martian, Bombshell and Star Girl show up. Can Huntress do that? Huh? Huh?

@RainEffect said:

@CitizenBane said:

@RainEffect said:

@Erik said:

@CitizenBane said:

Eh, quite honestly this is pretty even. I'm going to say Babs wins barely, as long as no one brings up the time Harley held her own against Dick, Tim and Cass at the same time.

Someone already brought it up so so much for that. :p

When the hell did this happen?

Her solo series, it was filled with fan service. She punked Batman, hit Croc in the nuts with a hammer, and survived an explosion that Bizarro pulled her into without even a scratch.

LOL. The only one I could actually see happening is the Croc one - only because he's become a jobber in recent memory. I can't remember the last time he did anything 'feat worthy', though you probably have better memory than me.

@HBKTimHBK: I was just re-reading No Man's Land and Helena does a hell of a good job as Batgirl, even though Batman eventually demands she take it off.

Why?

Because she failed to protect a district from 200 of Two-Face's goons. >.>

I'd love to see someone else from the Bat Family try and do what Helena did.

I'm biased towards Babs as Batgirl, what can I say? lol

Any other arguments?

IMO a little bit of "fanservice" (thought that was sexy poses though?) that actually gives her some feats is worth a career of being written as a lackey despite having skills and powers. On the Batgirl end of things... I dunno. Just never was that impressed with Barbara Gordon. She's like a mini-Bat only nowhere near as impressive, and with even less distinguishing qualities.

@Erik said:

1. I strongly disagree.
2. Her legs are not yet fully recovered. That is all.
3. Would not work at all. In fact, that is one of the first things you learn in wheelchair self defense seeing as how most aggressors actually try to take a wheelchair bound person from behind.

1. Guess we just have to disagree, there's not enough evidence for any of us to prove our point.
2. Yes. Exactly my point. She's not at her potential with her legs in this state.
3. Yes, but Huntress is not a regular joe.

It doesn't really matter though, not like this debate is going to make Barbara lose either round.

Barbara wins.Harley Quinn isnt much of a fighter.

@Stronger said:

Barbara wins.Harley Quinn isnt much of a fighter.

I think they're decently on the same level, with the enhanced attributes and such

@HBKTimHBK said:

@Stronger said:

Barbara wins.Harley Quinn isnt much of a fighter.

I think they're decently on the same level, with the enhanced attributes and such

Enhanced Harley is the worst idea they could think,if you ask me.She was a lot better as Jokers girlfriend

@Stronger said:

@HBKTimHBK said:

@Stronger said:

Barbara wins.Harley Quinn isnt much of a fighter.

I think they're decently on the same level, with the enhanced attributes and such

Enhanced Harley is the worst idea they could think,if you ask me.She was a lot better as Jokers girlfriend

Eh, things change I guess, especially with the New 52.

@HBKTimHBK said:

@Stronger said:

@HBKTimHBK said:

@Stronger said:

Barbara wins.Harley Quinn isnt much of a fighter.

I think they're decently on the same level, with the enhanced attributes and such

Enhanced Harley is the worst idea they could think,if you ask me.She was a lot better as Jokers girlfriend

Eh, things change I guess, especially with the New 52.

Yeah,I suppose.

@ReVamp said:

1. Guess we just have to disagree, there's not enough evidence for any of us to prove our point.
2. Yes. Exactly my point. She's not at her potential with her legs in this state.
3. Yes, but Huntress is not a regular joe.

It doesn't really matter though, not like this debate is going to make Barbara lose either round.

1. Yeah there is. Read BoP and Batgirl and compare her fighting ability to all her appearances as Batgirl.
2. Which does not mean anything other than acrobatics is effected. And considering she has already shown us that she is still very competent against someone much much better than Harley, I fail to see how it benefits the clown.
3. Irrelevant when Barbara is better than her.

No. Harley was better with the Gotham sirens

@HolySerpent said:

No. Harley was better with the Gotham sirens

I prefer her anywhere just not with Joker, I believe it's just holding back her character from evolving.

@HolySerpent said:

No. Harley was better with the Gotham sirens

I might have to change my opinion. I forgot about that series since I have yet to read it.

I wish she didn't gravitate to the closest authority figure, she seems to do best by herself. Even Ivy keeps her down.

@Joygirl: She's getting better at least, lol

@Erik said:

1. Yeah there is. Read BoP and Batgirl and compare her fighting ability to all her appearances as Batgirl.
2. Which does not mean anything other than acrobatics is effected. And considering she has already shown us that she is still very competent against someone much much better than Harley, I fail to see how it benefits the clown.
3. Irrelevant when Barbara is better than her.

1. I have read BoP nearly completely. Have yet to read Batgirl.
2. It means her ability to dodge and evade attacks are effected, which are two essential abilities to fighting. If you want to put "Evading" and "Dodging" under "Acrobatics" you can, but you must acknowledge the fact that both are relevant to fighting ability. [Or you musn't, that's up to you] I didn't say it benefits the Clown. Go back and read my previous posts, I mentioned explicitly that I'm simply defending Old Barbara > New Barbara, not that Harley wins.
3. Not when she is incapacitated severely. Why would Barbara decide to become Oracle when she lots the use of her legs, if she's still at the same level that she was before. Why didn't she continue to fight crime like she used to?

@ReVamp:

• It does not matter that her legs are not in top shape. That does not and I repeat, NOT mean that Classic Batgirl is a more competent fighter than her time as Oracle. It merely meant that in order to maintain and even improve her skill, she had to adjust to her new lifestyle, which she did and then some.
• Uh I do not think you know what I am even arguing about if you really are posting your third point. To even try that tells me you are trying to be a sarcastic twat or you just are lost. Obviously she could not be Batgirl without the use of her legs but that does not mean she could not maintain and even increase her fighting ability. The two do not go hand in hand.

@Erik:

1. I'll disagree. While she can improve her skill hand-to-hand on the wheelchair, it doesn't mean that her total fighting ability goes up.
2. I disagree. Maybe my point wasn't totally relevant to the argument. I think she could increase her skill but no her fighting ability in total.

Bump

I love how Babs has no feats as Batgirl, yet manages to pull a win in this. Rubbish IMO.

Round 1: Barbara Gordon

Round 2: Harley... i think. Its a close one.

Didn't see this bump coming...lol