#1 Edited by WillPayton (9035 posts) - - Show Bio

vs

Who wins?

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#2 Edited by AllStarSuperman (19499 posts) - - Show Bio

Half Jordan. And b4 people say SS just drains the rings. There's 10 rings! That gives half plenty of time to own the surfer!

#3 Posted by New_World_Order (12325 posts) - - Show Bio

Hal Jordan.

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#4 Posted by Simon_the_digger (2817 posts) - - Show Bio

Surfer.

#5 Edited by uberhikari (2276 posts) - - Show Bio

What exactly are Hal Jordan's feats with 10 rings?

#6 Posted by MonsterStomp (15225 posts) - - Show Bio

Hal Jordan. Convince me otherwise.

#7 Edited by Charetter115 (475 posts) - - Show Bio

Hal

#8 Edited by TifaLockhart (13977 posts) - - Show Bio

10 rings only creates the illusion of more power.

#9 Posted by omegablast452 (2425 posts) - - Show Bio

10 rings really don't do anything but increase his energy capacity.

#10 Posted by King Saturn (223723 posts) - - Show Bio

Silver Surfer wins

The Main Reason is because SS could still drain the power from the Power Rings rendering Hal Jordan essentially powerless.

#11 Edited by TifaLockhart (13977 posts) - - Show Bio

I wish Astro was here. He did a great job defending Lanterns.

#12 Posted by whacknasty (5599 posts) - - Show Bio

http://kisstheringsbitch.ytmnd.com/

Lol, I always think of the Chappelle skit when I see all of those rings.

As for the match, wouldn't the extra rings just drain his battery/lantern faster? : /

#13 Posted by TifaLockhart (13977 posts) - - Show Bio

The battery is not being drained anytime soon. If Astro is to be believed, neither is the Lantern.

#14 Edited by AllStarSuperman (19499 posts) - - Show Bio

King Saturn needs to read the first post.

#15 Posted by Sethlol (1296 posts) - - Show Bio

Hal.

#16 Edited by WillPayton (9035 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_last_son_of_czarnia said:

10 rings only creates the illusion of more power.

10 rings really don't do anything but increase his energy capacity.

What exactly are Hal Jordan's feats with 10 rings?

I gave this explanation of how multiple rings work, with examples from Emerald Twilight, in a different thread of Hal vs Darkseid. Copying it here since it's relevant.

Look at the picture in the OP... Hal isnt wearing 10 rings as a fashion statement.

The users willpower determines how much of the rings power can be accessed, and usually that limit is not reached. But, if you can access (for example) 90% of the rings power, then 2 rings would allow you to access 90% of each rings power... total of 180% of any single rings power.

As evidence look at Emerald Twilight, which is where the picture of Hal with the 10 rings comes from. When he fights Kilowog Hal says "You can't beat me Kilowog, you can see how I'm armed". After that he goes on to face off against Sinestro. Sinestro obviously knows he has no chance of winning and tries to get Hal to give up his advantage, he says... "Truthfully, I expected more from you, Jordan. Coming here, armed like that... not very sporting, is it? Makes my defeat a foregone conclusion." He then talks Hal into dropping all but one ring. Hal says, "I could give a damn, Sinestro. I really could. But I dont want any doubt in your mind. I want you to know that I defeated you... without any crutches."

I dont have the scans, but those are the quotes from Green Lantern issues #49 and 50.

The evidence is clear. Hal, Kilowog, and Sinestro all understood that multiple rings gave Hal even more power than he'd normally have. In fact, so much power that defeating Sinestro was "a foregone conclusion".

@BringnIt said:

Hey, good evidence. I don't necessarily like that it was written that way, but you provided a solid basis for what you were saying and that's enough for me. What was Hal's best feat when he had more than one ring?

Thank you. I actually think it makes sense considering how the rings are generally shown to work. The way I see them is like they're a water hose with a lot of pressure. The users will power is the valve that allows more or less water to shoot out. If the user has enough will power then he can allow all the water to shoot out at full pressure. That would be the maximum water it could shoot, even if the user had more willpower. In this analogy, having multiple rings is like having multiple hoses with the valve controlling all of them. If you could open the valve all the way you'd get 10x the water shooting out.

But yeah, feats is harder because Hal only had that many rings for a little while. Basically he was able to take out the entire GL corps and when he got to Oa he went into the Power Battery and absorbed all the power, becoming Parallax. So, being able to easily defeat GLs is a good feat, but it doesnt really give us a quantitative basis for its power. My assumption is that he can dish out about 10x as much power as with 1 ring.

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#17 Edited by uberhikari (2276 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: So, in other words Hal Jordan has exactly 0 feats with 10 GL rings? That means this thread can't be argued because any idea about how powerful Hal would be is all speculation. And, honestly Silver Surfer>>>speculation.

#18 Posted by JediXMan (29263 posts) - - Show Bio

Surfer.

@willpayton:

This still doesn't mean he can beat Silver Surfer, who should be fully capable of absorbing the power in those rings.

Also, there are two problems with the Emerald Twilight claim:

  1. That wasn't Sinestro. It was retconned to be an illusion created by Parallax to make him go off the edge so that he could be claimed.
  2. Before getting the rings, Hal obviously had a power boost. He recreated all of Coast City without much effort, and was chastised for it by the Guardians. This was a feat that, to my knowledge, he had never done before or came close to prior. It can easily be theorized that he was already possessing a fraction of Parallax's power; we know Parallax was able to influence others while in the battery, and the power of Ion - while in the battery - was regulated and given to Yat at different levels. While John Stewart was later capable of temporarily remaking Xanshi, that was after Parallax was removed from the battery, and after they regained Ion (and while, yes, Ion was in Sodom Yat at the time, he only had a fraction of Ion's power, the bulk of which was in the battery and therefore the rings; this is shown when Scar was capable of remotely regulating Yat's connection to Ion. So Yat was not a direct host like Kyle was).

So I am still very skeptical regarding that feat.

#19 Edited by dondave (33397 posts) - - Show Bio

Hal

#20 Posted by russellmania77 (14403 posts) - - Show Bio

10 rings wont be drained so quickley

#21 Posted by WillPayton (9035 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari said:

@willpayton: So, in other words Hal Jordan has exactly 0 feats with 10 GL rings? That means this thread can't be argued because any idea about how powerful Hal would be is all speculation. And, honestly Silver Surfer>>>speculation.

Hal has plenty of feats with 1 and multiple rings. As long as we know how multiple rings work, then we can use something called logic to think about what he can do with 10.

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#22 Edited by Dredeuced (5287 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton said:

@uberhikari said:

@willpayton: So, in other words Hal Jordan has exactly 0 feats with 10 GL rings? That means this thread can't be argued because any idea about how powerful Hal would be is all speculation. And, honestly Silver Surfer>>>speculation.

Hal has plenty of feats with 1 and multiple rings. As long as we know how multiple rings work, then we can use something called logic to think about what he can do with 10.

If you wanna go "only feats matter" then Hal beat a Guardian of the Universe empowered by the 7 emotional spectrum entities which would mean he outright oneshots surfer.

the most PIS feat in Hal's career, lol.

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#23 Posted by TifaLockhart (13977 posts) - - Show Bio

Seriously, what's with people and feats?

#24 Posted by Dredeuced (5287 posts) - - Show Bio

Seriously, what's with people and feats?

Some people believe you are not allowed to logically extrapolate powerups. Glad they never sign up for tournaments.

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#25 Posted by TifaLockhart (13977 posts) - - Show Bio

That makes the Phantom Stranger weaker than Lobo. Not cool.

#26 Posted by Skaddix (3109 posts) - - Show Bio

I am not sure how multiple rings of the same type help besides meaning he will not run out of energy as quickly.

#27 Posted by WillPayton (9035 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_last_son_of_czarnia said:

Seriously, what's with people and feats?

Some people on CV worship at the Alter of Feats.

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#28 Edited by Dredeuced (5287 posts) - - Show Bio

@skaddix said:

I am not sure how multiple rings of the same type help besides meaning he will not run out of energy as quickly.

It's kind of like having two guns at the same time. Sure, you can't use all six bullets in both guns at once, but you're firing from two hands instead of one. Now apply that to rings where all you have to do is will them to work and you're basically like a green lantern gatling gun.

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#29 Posted by WillPayton (9035 posts) - - Show Bio

@skaddix said:

I am not sure how multiple rings of the same type help besides meaning he will not run out of energy as quickly.

It's kind of like having two guns at the same time. Sure, you can't use all six bullets in both guns at once, but you're firing from two hands instead of one. Now apply that to rings where all you have to do is will them to work and you're basically like a green lantern gatling gun.

Another good analogy would be that 1 ring is like a shotgun with 1 barrel. 2 rings would be like a double-barreled shotgun. 10 rings is like one with 10 barrels. You pull the trigger and you get 10x the power shooting out.

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#30 Posted by Killemall (18169 posts) - - Show Bio

Another good analogy would be that 1 ring is like a shotgun with 1 barrel. 2 rings would be like a double-barreled shotgun. 10 rings is like one with 10 barrels. You pull the trigger and you get 10x the power shooting out.

There is really not much of an evidence to suggest this though (as in the amount of amp, while i believe it does amp, i do not believe the amp is significant)

Sure Hal Jordan feats during Emerald Twilight look better, but if you really look into it all he did was beat fodders, something he should have no problem doing. Then we also have the whole retcon where Parallax was affecting him from the get go, to be fair this was meant to be a retcon to justify his killing.

Also what you can do from a ring is dependent on willpower and how much energy the ring has, while number of rings will help you in the latter part, coz now you have more powers, will power doesnt change. So amp isnt going to be anything substantial (as oppose to no amp at all)

Thats besides the point, more energy attack should only give surfer a better change to manipulate those energies , nor does multiple rings prevent any of Surfer exotic powers like molecule manipulation, shape shifting , telepathy, telekensis, matter manipulation, black hole and so on.

#31 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (4786 posts) - - Show Bio

SS still more powerful and versatile for GL.

#32 Posted by Dredeuced (5287 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton said:

Another good analogy would be that 1 ring is like a shotgun with 1 barrel. 2 rings would be like a double-barreled shotgun. 10 rings is like one with 10 barrels. You pull the trigger and you get 10x the power shooting out.

There is really not much of an evidence to suggest this though (as in the amount of amp, while i believe it does amp, i do not believe the amp is significant)

Sure Hal Jordan feats during Emerald Twilight look better, but if you really look into it all he did was beat fodders, something he should have no problem doing. Then we also have the whole retcon where Parallax was affecting him from the get go, to be fair this was meant to be a retcon to justify his killing.

Also what you can do from a ring is dependent on willpower and how much energy the ring has, while number of rings will help you in the latter part, coz now you have more powers, will power doesnt change. So amp isnt going to be anything substantial (as oppose to no amp at all)

Thats besides the point, more energy attack should only give surfer a better change to manipulate those energies , nor does multiple rings prevent any of Surfer exotic powers like molecule manipulation, shape shifting , telepathy, telekensis, matter manipulation, black hole and so on.

Energy attacks have hurt Surfer plenty of times before. I think scale and his familiarity with the energy matter significantly, otherwise Odin or Thanos wouldn't be able to down him with blasts.

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#33 Edited by Killemall (18169 posts) - - Show Bio


Energy attacks have hurt Surfer plenty of times before. I think scale and his familiarity with the energy matter significantly, otherwise Odin or Thanos wouldn't be able to down him with blasts.

Surfer needs to actively want to manipulate the energy in question and barring magical energy, and energy from infinity gems, Surfer is shown capable of manipulating any kind of energy, and at time he has been hurt, while at other he has absorbed them, store them and used them to boost himself.

Furthermore, both Odin and Thanos energy are partly magical in nature, while we do not know the true extent of Thanos current energy, its was boosted by Mistress Death using her power, thats not a kind of energy you would expect Surfer to be able to manipulate.

Of course the magnitude of blast would be there, i mean yeah Eternity's attack are generally energy based as well, after all you cant expect a sentient universe to punch you , and i have no reason to believe he could manipulate energy of that magnitude, but i have seen no evidence to suggest Hal Jordan is capable of dissing out more energy than what Surfer could manipulate. Kyle is a special case, and i am more into fence with that (i honestly think a bloodlusted kyle could give Surfer a run for his money)

#34 Edited by laflux (13702 posts) - - Show Bio

after all you cant expect a sentient universe to punch you

Eternity disagrees

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#35 Edited by King Saturn (223723 posts) - - Show Bio

King Saturn needs to read the first post.

there is nothing in the OP to read... just the images... also, why does everyone assume that it will be difficult to drain the 10 rings ?

#36 Edited by Killemall (18169 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux: Subsequent issue it was later retconned it to being Loki, who just made Hank Pym think it was Eternity.

#37 Posted by laflux (13702 posts) - - Show Bio
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#38 Posted by utkanflash (389 posts) - - Show Bio

Hal jordan .. it tough match up but 10 ring power with Hal Hal deal with Surfer

#39 Edited by Dredeuced (5287 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced said:

Energy attacks have hurt Surfer plenty of times before. I think scale and his familiarity with the energy matter significantly, otherwise Odin or Thanos wouldn't be able to down him with blasts.

Surfer needs to actively want to manipulate the energy in question and barring magical energy, and energy from infinity gems, Surfer is shown capable of manipulating any kind of energy, and at time he has been hurt, while at other he has absorbed them, store them and used them to boost himself.

Furthermore, both Odin and Thanos energy are partly magical in nature, while we do not know the true extent of Thanos current energy, its was boosted by Mistress Death using her power, thats not a kind of energy you would expect Surfer to be able to manipulate.

Of course the magnitude of blast would be there, i mean yeah Eternity's attack are generally energy based as well, after all you cant expect a sentient universe to punch you , and i have no reason to believe he could manipulate energy of that magnitude, but i have seen no evidence to suggest Hal Jordan is capable of dissing out more energy than what Surfer could manipulate. Kyle is a special case, and i am more into fence with that (i honestly think a bloodlusted kyle could give Surfer a run for his money)

I've already mentioned it, and even though it may wreak of PIS, Hal blasting the 7 entity empowered Krona to death seems like it would rank up there with attacks that Surfer couldn't handle. Heck I'd argue a non amped Guardian like Ganthet would give Surfer a run for his money.

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#40 Edited by Killemall (18169 posts) - - Show Bio


I've already mentioned it, and even though it may wreak of PIS, Hal blasting the 7 entity empowered Krona to death seems like it would rank up there with attacks that Surfer couldn't handle. Heck I'd argue a non amped Guardian like Ganthet would give Surfer a run for his money.

Thats one of the worst example you could use man.. while i dont think Surfer can beat Krona, Krona was actively controlling ION, among other entity, the very entity of Green Lantern energy, him getting killed by Hal Jordan green lanterns energy is just wrong on so many level.

That being said while i agree Ganthet could take Surfer, we know Guardians , without any sort of amp can take drain GL energy too, so i see no reason why Hal with 10 rings would fair any better.

#41 Posted by Dredeuced (5287 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced said:

I've already mentioned it, and even though it may wreak of PIS, Hal blasting the 7 entity empowered Krona to death seems like it would rank up there with attacks that Surfer couldn't handle. Heck I'd argue a non amped Guardian like Ganthet would give Surfer a run for his money.

Thats one of the worst example you could use man.. while i dont think Surfer can beat Krona, Krona was actively controlling ION, among other entity, the very entity of Green Lantern energy, him getting killed by Hal Jordan green lanterns energy is just wrong on so many level.

That being said while i agree Ganthet could take Surfer, we know Guardians , without any sort of amp can take drain GL energy too, so i see no reason why Hal with 10 rings would fair any better.

Well, it's a showing. If Hal could raise himself up to that level of plot garbage then he could totally take Surfer! :D

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#42 Posted by Killemall (18169 posts) - - Show Bio


Well, it's a showing. If Hal could raise himself up to that level of plot garbage then he could totally take Surfer! :D

...

uh..

..but.

..uh.

You know what i cant argue against that like at all

Well played sir, well played....

#43 Edited by Dredeuced (5287 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced said:

Well, it's a showing. If Hal could raise himself up to that level of plot garbage then he could totally take Surfer! :D

...

uh..

..but.

..uh.

You know what i cant argue against that like at all

Well played sir, well played....

Nothing trumps the power of horrible writing. It's like Hal's very own Loeb-force.

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#44 Posted by uberhikari (2276 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari said:

@willpayton: So, in other words Hal Jordan has exactly 0 feats with 10 GL rings? That means this thread can't be argued because any idea about how powerful Hal would be is all speculation. And, honestly Silver Surfer>>>speculation.

Hal has plenty of feats with 1 and multiple rings. As long as we know how multiple rings work, then we can use something called logic to think about what he can do with 10.

The statement you wrote is self-contradictory and only serves to prove my point. You said as long as you have logic you can think about what Hal can do with 10 rings. Your use "of think" is just a euphemism for speculation. Logic works because it's predicated on demonstrable proof. You, on the other hand, can't prove squat about what Hal is capable of with 10 rings. All you can do is "think."

@the_last_son_of_czarnia said:

Seriously, what's with people and feats?

Some people believe you are not allowed to logically extrapolate powerups. Glad they never sign up for tournaments.

First, I never said you can't logically extrapolate power ups, those are just words you put into my mouth. In fact, there are some instances where you can extrapolate power ups. But this isn't one of them.

Second, no one in this thread has a single clue how multiple rings work together, and even if they did they couldn't PROVE it, and as such all you can do is speculate. It's just like DBZ fans and power level math. Otherwise we could see threads like Hal Jordan with 2 GL rings on every finger and toe vs Odin. See my point? At some point extrapolation becomes silly because it requires too much speculation. You can ONLY extrapolate power ups when you know how the power up functions.

#45 Edited by WillPayton (9035 posts) - - Show Bio

Logic is the application of a set of rules that are self-consistent. A logical argument is valid as long as it doesnt either contradict itself or contradict its initial premises. "Demonstrable proof" only applies as long as that "proof" consists of those rules. As such, the proof can be a demonstrable thing (for example a feat) or a logical argument which requires no proof.

In other words, there are propositions that can only be proved through logic and for which there cant be physical or tangible "proof" given. For example, I can prove that PI is an irrational number by using math (i.e. logic), but no "demonstrable proof" can ever exist for this. There is nothing physical or tangible that you could ever find or measure to show the value of PI. Even the fastest computer you could ever conceive of will never calculate the value of PI.

Anyway, like I said in the post that you quoted, but apparently didnt bother to read, if we know how multiple rings work, then we can logically determine what Hal could do with 10 rings.

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#46 Posted by Shawnbaby (10387 posts) - - Show Bio

Since people want to use logic here:

The Law of Diminishing Returns - a law affirming that to continue after a certain level of performance has been reached will result in a decline in effectiveness.

#47 Edited by uberhikari (2276 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: Thank you for this very long red herring. Now all you have to do is show me proof of how multiple rings work together. Nobody in this thread seems to be capable of doing this. Ergo, the only way to proceed with this thread is speculation.

#48 Posted by GhostRider2 (3228 posts) - - Show Bio

Silver Surfer, i don't know why people put lanterns on Surfer level.