the Dai-gurren Brigade downplay is strong with this one.
Come on guys,
TTGL can warp probability,
So there goes most of your hopes of anything, there's now a 0% chance of you finding the pilots, if you even can.
shoot missiles back in time,
Kills you all as children, and kills the first insect to feel fear, thus parallex doesn't exist.
And 2 upgrades ago it was punching things so hard that it was breaking space time.
Have fun dealing with that.
IMO Kyle is the only Lantern who deserves to be here, and IIRC he doesn't know how to use his powers yet. You're gonna need ALL the corps, and even then you'll probably lose.
And the mere fact that it can move means it's something like millions of times the speed of light just when moving his arm up. How do you intend to deal with a galaxy sized bullet moving at you at speeds proportional to that?
It's 10,000,000 light years tall, can the Lanterns even move fast enough to try to find the pilots? And even if you get there, what makes you think you can kill Simon? In the movie he was having a fist fight with a Nigh Omnipotent enemy. xD They can already revive the dead, so if you kill one pilot Simon will just resurrect them. lol. That is assuming they don't make the probability of you finding the pilots 0% :3
AndTTGL has dimensional anchors, and can traverse dimensions themselves.
Consider yourself,
for those who think TTGL wins, let us analyze his attacks and overall powers.
STTGL.
probability warping missiles:
all everyone has shown is that the missiles warp the chances of it hitting its opponent, but no one has ever mentioned why the missiles themselves can actually do any damage. also, this remember that the only time it can warp probability is with its missiles accuracy. it has never shown to warp probability on any other level.
can go back in time:
well, Ion can exist in multiple places in space AND time, which is much better than just going back in time. i saw someone say that STTGL can shoot missiles back in time to kill all the beings that were ever afraid. i do not want to say it, but this is ridiculous. 1. why would ion and parallax just stand there and let you kill everyone? 2. he would not succeed because the freaking SPECTRE was afraid of the word, and if STTGL is really stupid enough to go pick a fight with someone who does this:
then ion and parallax would not have to worry about STTGL, not that they need to now.
moves many times the speed of light:
well, this is relatively false.
smaller creatures, like flies, perceive what we think as fast as slow. why do you think that flies can dodge newspapers and hands that fast? time passes more slowly for smaller creatures than for larger. As the new study published in Animal Behavior shows, small animals like insects and small birds can take in more information in one second than a larger animal, like us bulky humans. Generally the smaller an animal is, and the faster its metabolic rate, the slower time passes. The evidence comes from research into the ability of animals to detect separate flashes of fast-flickering light.
anyway, DC already knows this, seeing as they know that metron needed to speed up time for promethian giants for them to talk normally.
and seeing as STTGL is only 'fast' because of his size, he can not equalize the time for him and his opponents to make his attacks seem fast. so to Ion and parallax who both have cosmic awareness, STTGL. IS SLOW.
Ion.
powers:
time, space, energy, matter, manipulation.
he can easily kill the pilots by manipulating their heads, either with TP, or just stop their brains electrical pulses. and they have not shown to be able to resist both.
second, he can just pull them all out of reality like he did with nero. there, no one has any powers and all will have to rely on h2h combat, in which hal and kyle excels in. relatively. and do not assume i am talking about another universe or dimension, i am talking about outside of reality, and actually, if hal and kyle are both tired, they can just leave them there seeing as they have no powers, and thus can not leave.
also, kyle exists throughout time, and each one is as powerful as the whole, so even if he stands there and just let STTGL kill him, he would still exist.
and i think everyone knows about parallax, who has recreated the universe and many alternate realities and temporarily stunned the spectre.
this fight is just too one sided, if it is parallax vs STTGL, then it would be much more even although parallax would still win.
@mysticmedivh: I think I'm doing rather well actually, (read below)
1. Why can they hurt? Because they're freaking galaxy sized missiles made from Spiral energy, which has no limits, that's why. I also showed a scan above of warping the probability of being blocked. So there goes that. ^_^
2. Okay, they exist in multiple places in space time, I ALSO just posted a scan of Super Galaxy Gurren Lagann, an upgrade from before TTGL, and 2 upgrades before STTGL, shooting hundreds of missiles to different points in space at the same time, so what's your point?
3. Except the fact that STTGL/TTGL is being controlled by Special Humans, who don't see it moving slowly at all. It's made from Energy, in a universe where "Thought becomes Reality". It does whatever they want. So there goes that. Can Green Lanterns fly to the other side of a galaxy within a second?
4. lol okay,
5. Pull them out Reality? they already exist on the 10th dimension. Do you know what that means?
Also, are you seriously trying to put a cap on spiral energy? They get spiral energy just from being spiral beings, which means their DNA forms a double helix structure, heck, in the movie, Simon ALONE had a fist fight, and won, against a Nigh Omnipotent opponent.
Even people who weren't supposed to be able to use Spiral Energy developed it. Like Nia, who was an ANTI-Spiral messenger. Or a Beastman like Viral. It should've been impossible for them to have Spiral energy, so then why did they have it? Because Spiral Energy is, as I showed before, capable of limitless possibility and power.
6. What's your point? They can, as I showed before, target things that are on all space-time locations. And they also exist on the 10th dimension, so all of reality is a single point. It literally means nothing to them.
7. Recreated the universe hm? I also already posted scans of Simon and Co breaking out of a multiversal labyrinth. So um.
8. If anything is onesided, it's in favor of TTGL.
@mysticmedivh: well, he did good too for he is a good debater, but the character he is using is just too weak for Ion, who's worthy opponents include eternity, oblivion, and corrigan spectre. @jeepeh:
1. and 2. galaxy sized missiles huh. if mankind has a nuke that size then they could wipe out a galaxy too, but size and destructive power does NOT go hand in hand. for example, if someone fired an earth sized missile that could destroy earth but was aiming for a person of normal size of great durability, their missile would have less chance of dealing damage than a house sized missile that can also destroy the earth. just think of it as a large amount of acid, the dissolving power of the acid does not change with the amount, but with a larger amount you can dissolve a larger area of land but still, no matter how much acid you use, if it can not dissolve a certain material, the amount of acid being used is irrelevant. so unless you show the destructive capability of the missiles to be universal+ they are not of much use. and i have already addressed the issue of the missiles probability warping powers; if the missiles themselves can not hurt Ion, then hitting him would be irrelevant. like throwing probability warping rocks at superman. and the probability manipulation only works on accuracy. you have not shown it to be able of warping its own damage. and okay, a statement of amping it to infinite levels, well, what exactly did it DO?
3. can green lanterns. well, if you did not notice, the beings they are fighting are NOT green lanterns. can green lanterns stop time? no. Ion did. and okay, thought becomes reality. again, a statement. what EXACTLY CAN IT DO? also, what did it do?
4. Ion is the master of space and time. he exists everywhere. he was sleeping with his girlfriend while saving the world.
are you really asking whether or not Ion, the embodiment of will, can live 10 billion years? and actually, your the one who said Ion only moves at the speed of light when he actually can manipulate time and space and exist everywhere. and again, your probability warp only works on the accuracy of the missiles. you have not proven it can do anything else. and probability warp < reality warp. probability is part of reality.
5. in fact, i do not know what that means. because there is no 10D in the real world and people can only theorize, and comic creators use their own versions of 10D. for example, in DC, the 10th D is the totality of the multiverse, what was, is, and will be. but even that is still within reality. whatever dimensions you cook up, is still within creation. if you get pulled to the outer edge of creation, there is no time, much less dimensions. anyway, outside the multiverse is the primal monitor, and if you get too far from creation, you get erased. mandrakk, the being with the power of 52 universes got erased. but luckily, neither ion nor simon is even powerful enough to go beyond the outer edge, so when Ion pulls them out if reality they will only lose their powers.
though in marvel there are more than 16 dimensions, and just because your in 4D does not mean your more powerful than the beings in 3D. you think that all 10D beings are powerful but in fact they are just like 3D, you have beings like superman, and you have beings like crime buster.
anyway, dimensions does not equal power, as most of the 5D beings in DC is more powerful than the catheis, the 6D beings. and the quantum mechanics, who exist in the 3rd D, went into the 5th D and one of them beat up an imp.
and define nigh omnipotent, that is a word that is so widely used it has lost all meaning. even Odin was considered omnipotent. so show us what the nigh omnipotent guy did, or that feat will be irrelevant.
6. there, you understand. you mention all of reality, but Ion can pull them OUT of reality. it is not so hard to understand.
7. for me, No 7 is the concluding sentence.
Ion exists everywhere in both space AND time. so distance is irrelevant to him. you have not even answered my statement, which is Ion can manipulate their brains energy. all you said was that Ion can not reach them. but okay, if the op has to put limits on the DC character, then so be it. Ion can still win because TTGL just have nothing that can even hurt him, much less beat him.
and please, many of the things you mentioned in your post i have already answered, so please, next time only bring new, unanswered things to the table. it will save both of us time : )
People put TTGL and STTGL against Eternity and Spectre all the time.
1. In order for it to be that size it needs to have that much power. Hence the "30 megaton nuke" Well this is more like a 3,000,000,000,000 gazillion petaton nuke. xD
2. I think with the explosion you're thinking of the power as not being able to be focused on the individual, which I could buy, but these are not ordinary missiles either. I've shown you that they are capable of warping the probability of being blocked, so it's very safe to say that they can warp more than one thing. It's just that I can only see it being so useful in the fight that they were in, since they were fighting another probability warping entity. Also, you want Universal feats? There are none for the missiles/lasers as those were used back when it was SGGL. So it's more of a powerscaling thing. But we do have him tanking a Universal-Multiversal blast.
I believe in show they were being hit by it for like 1:15 minutes or something before someone said "We're in trouble". Then Simon got determined and was about to do something but Lordgenome told him to let him do it, and he absorbed the blast and upgraded them even more. Who knows what Simon was going to do. So the question is, it's a big bang, so that would be universal, but if it was a natural big bang, then they'd be hit by it then it'd move passed them and be gone right? But here it was a focused, un-ending blast. So is that more like Multiversal? *shrug*. Also, since they absorbed the big bang, that would automatically make them Universal/Multiversal on top of what they already were, which, as I showed before, was already universal++ or more in scope since Simon warped his way out of the Multiversal Labyrinth.
3. Thought becoming reality, it was the basis for the entire fight, hence why they can create a galaxy sized Sniper Rifle out of nothing, move quadrillions of times faster than the speed of light, defeat a Nigh Omnipotent being, heck, they constructed the dang "robot" itself through sheer willpower. It's also the reason Lordgenome got his body back for the fight. According to the creators it creates a Super Spiral Universe within itself, which would allow it to exist and do all these things regardless of what universe he's in.
4. Okay, at least you showed the reality thing to be true, although I have a few questions with it.
Amplifies Everything. Missile strength? Strengthened. Things that we can warp the probability of? Strengthened. Also, the Anti Spirals warped the probability of TTGL blocking attacks, there's not a large gap between un-blockable attacks, and being hurt by attacks. You have to understand that this was a battle between two people that can both warp Probability, so most things were able to be canceled out by the other.
5. "neither ion nor simon is even powerful enough to go beyond the outer edge, so when Ion pulls them out if reality they will only lose their powers."
So if Ion does pull STTGL out of Reality, everyone will be powerless and it will be a H2H fight of sorts? But I just showed that it's practically, maybe even impractically, impossible to cap Spiral Power. It should've been impossible for Viral, and Nia, to acquire spiral power, yet they all got their own core drills and busted out of the Multiversal Labyrinth, then proceeded to craft their own Galaxy sized Mechas in the movie. And if they both have no power, why would you immediately assume that the Dai-Gurren Brigade loses in a fist fight with 2 humans? Heck, Yoko has a sniper rifle, she solos in that case, lol. Also, why are we assuming we abide by the DC universe rules? The OP didn't specify what universe we were meeting in.
Just because Marvel and DC don't abide by the proper term doesn't mean that TTGL doesn't. And even if being 10th dimensional means nothing, we still have this:
Every point in Reality just got a universal nuke dropped on their heads. :D
6. But didn't you say that Ion would lose his powers as well? And I've already shown how putting a cap on Spiral power doesn't work. And again, why was this not usable on Superman-Prime?
7.What do you mean about "concluding sentence" ?
Yes, he exists everywhere in space and time, but TTGL can attack everywhere in space and time, and you haven't shown Ion to be capable of Universal feats, which I have for TTGL in this instance. I would also like an answer on why the newer Ion got defeated so easily if he's supposedly so unstoppable. Also, the question was can he warp their brains from 10,000,000 light years away, I haven't seen him warping things from another Galaxy.
How do you figure? You're the one who keeps bringing up "existing in all of reality" When I've shown you that it wouldn't help.
1. Again, I already explained this part, it's not a simple missile, it's Spiral Energy, the power goes up infinitely based on their mental state just like everything else.
2. I have shown you multiple times warping the probability of being blocked. (I need to correct myself here, I previously said that it was the anti spirals that were warping probability, it was actually the Ashtangas, and the Anti Spirals > TTGL >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ashtangas) There's almost no difference between probability of blocking and probability of being hurt. There's almost no reason to believe they couldn't. How can you say that it's the only thing they've warped when the Ashtangas warped the probability of being blocked? Simon alone surpassed the Anti Spiral by the end. And it was focused because it was pointed in a single direction, they specifically say "It has the power to create universes.... it's like a Big bang"
4. You just skipped most of my questions, why? And where did warping people out of existence come into this part? Do you mean the Anti Spiral? Because they were roughly on the same level of power. The entire point of the Anti-Spiral mech was to fight them on equal terms. and I used it for both because it's kind of both, is it not? Thinking something into existence and warping something into reality... what's the difference? It fits in both categories to me.
5. This doesn't counter my argument, there is no Creator being in TTGL. And I even said before that the robot creates a Super Spiral universe within itself, the Super Spiral Universe shown above to be the source of the thinking things into reality, so theoretically they should still have their powers.
6. Do you mean there's a difference between Kyle and Sodam Yat? They're both Ion hosts, they're both Ion, what's the huge difference that I'm missing?
7. *Can't stop laughing* I've shown plenty of things, in fact, I'd like you to show a few things. Mainly, is Ion capable of power on the level shown by the Anti Spirals? You haven't shown me that. Also, you really haven't proven the "Exists in all of reality at once". You've shown him to be in multiple places at once, Spectre, Multiple Man, heck, I wouldn't be surprised about Flash, all of them can do that. Whereas I have them showing and stating to be targeting all points in time and space at once. I'd say the proof is in my favor so far.
1) In what world am I scooting around the subject? I addressed it twice in the last reply and gave you reasons for their power output being enough. It's not my fault if you refuse to read/believe it. :/
2) They owned the universe they were in, they controlled the laws of physics, they controlled everything. They even say it's impossible for TTGL to win, yet they did. There is no-one over the Anti Spiral, they are the absolute authority there, unlike say, the Living Tribunal, who must answer to TOAA, the Anti Spiral isn't like that.
3) I could say the same about you, him being in multiple places isn't proof of existing everywhere at once, otherwise he's omnipresent. Also, I did show a counter for it, TWICE. That you have ignored. You also straight up skipped most of my questions for you.
4) This is the same as 3. I have proven it, you haven't shown anything or even a statement for his durability. Unless it's Universal+ He doesn't deserve to be here.
5) You read my post. You "existing in all of reality" has been countered, and possibly disproven unless you give definitive proof. Now it's time for you to give me a durability feat for him.
The Anti Spirals played with Multiverses like toys, they just threw TTGL's pilots into a multiversal labyrinth in an instant.
Simon and Nia, in Lagann alone defeated the Anti Spirals in the end, in the movie, Simon does it alone without a mecha at all.
Simon alone > Anti Spirals > Multiverses. Your turn.
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