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#1 Posted by ScottishWarlord (155 posts) - - Show Bio

They have 2 weeks prep

No chi for IronFist

No shield for Captain America

They have full knowledge of each other

Fight takes place in a Boxing ring

Win by KO

#2 Posted by joshmightbe (24694 posts) - - Show Bio

Iron Fist, even without his chi he's still one of the world's best martial artists. Cap is good but not that good.

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#3 Posted by jashro44 (19902 posts) - - Show Bio

If this is a boxing match Steve has the edge since boxing is one of his main styles IIRC. Otherwise I think this could go either way.

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#4 Posted by darktiger (4270 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

Iron Fist, even without his chi he's still one of the world's best martial artists. Cap is good but not that good.

I'm tempted to agree

#5 Posted by TheSwordsman (1954 posts) - - Show Bio

Cap wins in a good fight. If Iron fist was allowed to use his chi in this fight to raise his stats to super-soldier levels then IF would win after a grueling fight.

#6 Posted by joshmightbe (24694 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheSwordsman: He has beaten people stronger than him without his Chi before, and he's fairly close to peek human as is.

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#7 Edited by jashro44 (19902 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

@TheSwordsman: He has beaten people stronger than him without his Chi before, and he's fairly close to peek human as is.

The same could be said for cap or any character really. Who has he beaten of caps level of skill and physicals without the use of chi? And is he trained in boxing?

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#8 Posted by joshmightbe (24694 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: He said Boxing Ring, he made no mention of fighting style

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#9 Posted by jashro44 (19902 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

@jashro44: He said Boxing Ring, he made no mention of fighting style

I thought the OP had a post above mine where he said this was a boxing match. I must be seeing things.

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#10 Posted by ScottishWarlord (155 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes i made no mention of it being only boxing i chose a boxing ring for a neutral setting that doesn't favour either character

#11 Posted by joshmightbe (24694 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: I do think it'd be a great fight I'd just give Iron Fist the edge here

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#12 Posted by jashro44 (19902 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe: Understandable.

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#13 Posted by ScottishWarlord (155 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: You are right but i decided to delete the comment because i wanted to see both characters at their full martial arts potential

#14 Posted by jashro44 (19902 posts) - - Show Bio

@ScottishWarlord said:

@jashro44: You are right but i decided to delete the comment because i wanted to see both characters at their full martial arts potential

All right good to know. I think you made the right choice. Cap would be at a advantage in a boxing match since he is a trained boxer and iron fist to my knowledge is not. Under the current conditions I think it could go either way.

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#15 Posted by TheSwordsman (1954 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

@TheSwordsman: He has beaten people stronger than him without his Chi before, and he's fairly close to peek human as is.

It's not about Cap's strength, but his skill, experience, and SS enhanced speed. reflexes, agility, and endurance. Iron fist is not close to peak human. He can, however, boost himself to peak human with chi.

#16 Posted by mrtrevorguy (1198 posts) - - Show Bio

Good match. I honestly couldn't give it to either of them I can't pick xD

#17 Posted by joshmightbe (24694 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheSwordsman: He's probably as close to peek human as possible w/out the SS formula

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#18 Posted by God_Spawn (37382 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@ScottishWarlord said:

@jashro44: You are right but i decided to delete the comment because i wanted to see both characters at their full martial arts potential

All right good to know. I think you made the right choice. Cap would be at a advantage in a boxing match since he is a trained boxer and iron fist to my knowledge is not. Under the current conditions I think it could go either way.

I don't know if IF is trained in boxing specifically, but he knows how to identify the style. He did explain Matt Murdock's style in fighting was old school Jujutsu mixed with Irish Boxing. And we know Danny imitated Daredevil's style or tried to at least IIRC. So he probably does know boxing if it isn't exactly his most discernible style. I guess this isn't really relative to the thread specifically since it is an open style fight.

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#19 Posted by ghost_rider1 (3422 posts) - - Show Bio

Iron Fist should win a majority. Cap lost to deadpool without his shield. Iron fist had the upper hand on deadpool in their encounters. I don't see cap winning this

#20 Posted by 202122 (1145 posts) - - Show Bio

Iron Fist crushes Cap

#21 Posted by Charlie_Jade (523 posts) - - Show Bio

bendis wrote this

,

#22 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

Captain America is better than Iron Fist at h2h.

#23 Posted by jashro44 (19902 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn:That's true. I suppose he is familiar with boxing.

@ghost_rider1 said:

Iron Fist should win a majority. Cap lost to deadpool without his shield. Iron fist had the upper hand on deadpool in their encounters. I don't see cap winning this

That's just ABC logic and I unless I am missing something cap never lost to deadpool.

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#24 Posted by Captain_Awesome85 (452 posts) - - Show Bio

Cap is trained in almost every fighting style but this is just not his match up. Danny takes this won 8/10

#25 Posted by God_Spawn (37382 posts) - - Show Bio

@Charlie_Jade said:

bendis wrote this

,

I fail to see the point of this and so what if Bendis wrote it? Wolverine is more skilled than Cap is too if you're using it as a knock against Iron Fist.

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#26 Posted by Bossmonster (2167 posts) - - Show Bio

I do not believe that Cap has the H2H that will stand against Iron Fist. Chi or no Chi.

#27 Posted by luhjgh (83 posts) - - Show Bio

It'd be an interesting fight, and Iron Fist would definately come out with some bruises but he'd win.

#28 Edited by MzombieX (975 posts) - - Show Bio

Cap is designed to be the ultimate human fighting machine. Now granted, if Iron Fist were allowed to tap into his Chi ... I could see him taking this match in a clean sweep.

I do believe Danny's knowledge of the arts, makes him the superior fighter in H2H. Yet it isn't as if Cap is some kind of bum who doesn't know what he's doing out there.

So as it stands - Even though Danny may be better, Cap's technique is still more than sufficient ... that with his added strength, durability, speed, reflexes, thought process, etc.

Cap should be able to overpower Danny to take the majority rounds.

Just noticed the OP states the winner is decided by KO - In which case Cap's ability to soak damage, maintain stamina, and deliver heavier shots, puts this more in his favor.

#29 Posted by ghost_rider1 (3422 posts) - - Show Bio
@jashro44

@god_spawn:That's true. I suppose he is familiar with boxing.

@ghost_rider1 said:

Iron Fist should win a majority. Cap lost to deadpool without his shield. Iron fist had the upper hand on deadpool in their encounters. I don't see cap winning this

That's just ABC logic and I unless I am missing something cap never lost to deadpool.

Yes....cap has lost to deadpool....but I don't think deadpool has ever lost to cap. Cap only advantage here is his physical attributes. But, iron fist who has been a trained martial artist all his life should be able to beat him with superior technique
#30 Posted by krauser99 (826 posts) - - Show Bio

If Steve still has the SSS. Likely him and easily at times.

#31 Posted by PrinceIMC (5421 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Iron Fist will win this one.

#32 Posted by krauser99 (826 posts) - - Show Bio

A Super Soldier vs a skill full man who can't use Chi in this fight.

This isn't going to go well for Danny. Not sure how anyone can say Danny will win. Only if we ignore the SSS then it would be a much better fight.

But even in a frail 4F body Steve defeated Super Soldiers and in a normal body he defeated Crossbones and the Serpent Society. He still shouldn't be underestimated.

#33 Posted by jashro44 (19902 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghost_rider1:Can you give me an issue reference or scans of this fight where cap lost? They have fought twice to my knowledge (unless we are counting the time deadpool was fighting iron fist disguised as daredevil and then cap showed up later but IIRC all deadpool did was evade the anti-registration forces). Deadpool didn't win either (all though he had the upper hand in one). I don't recall cap being knocked, incapacitated, or killed by deadpool.

Anyways though I don't think it matters if cap doesn't have a good track record against deadpool and iron fist does. There are a lot of ways a fight can go on any given day. Iron fist might do well against Wade one day to lose the next day, or cap might do well against deadpool on one day to lose the next.

@krauser99 said:

A Super Soldier vs a skill full man who can't use Chi in this fight.

This isn't going to go well for Danny. Not sure how anyone can say Danny will win. Only if we ignore the SSS then it would be a much better fight.

But even in a frail 4F body Steve defeated Super Soldiers and in a normal body he defeated Crossbones and the Serpent Society. He still shouldn't be underestimated.

The fact cap beat 3-4 guys with the super solider serum kind of means his physicals can be overcome with enough skill. I agree physicals will play a role and cap is being underestimated but I think iron fist has a chance.

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#34 Edited by krauser99 (826 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah but it's not much of a chance if you ask me. That just shows how well Steve is gifted in fighting. Plus the Super Soldiers that he defeated were brutes that didn't have the Vita Ray refinement. Still impressive considering Steve was in his frail body at the time.

Being the next step in human evolution is just to much of an advantage.

#35 Posted by dondave (34674 posts) - - Show Bio

Iron Fist ftw

#36 Posted by MzombieX (975 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@ghost_rider1:Can you give me an issue reference or scans of this fight where cap lost? They have fought twice to my knowledge (unless we are counting the time deadpool was fighting iron fist disguised as daredevil and then cap showed up later but IIRC all deadpool did was evade the anti-registration forces). Deadpool didn't win either (all though he had the upper hand in one). I don't recall cap being knocked, incapacitated, or killed by deadpool.

Anyways though I don't think it matters if cap doesn't have a good track record against deadpool and iron fist does. There are a lot of ways a fight can go on any given day. Iron fist might do well against Wade one day to lose the next day, or cap might do well against deadpool on one day to lose the next.

@krauser99 said:

A Super Soldier vs a skill full man who can't use Chi in this fight.

This isn't going to go well for Danny. Not sure how anyone can say Danny will win. Only if we ignore the SSS then it would be a much better fight.

But even in a frail 4F body Steve defeated Super Soldiers and in a normal body he defeated Crossbones and the Serpent Society. He still shouldn't be underestimated.

The fact cap beat 3-4 guys with the super solider serum kind of means his physicals can be overcome with enough skill. I agree physicals will play a role and cap is being underestimated but I think iron fist has a chance.

Granted, Iron Fist does have a chance ... but Cap has stalemated guys like T'Challa. That is more than enough skill to take advantage of the nerf Danny has been given.

After the first shot Cap lands, exerting nearly 2 tons of force to the side of Iron Fist's head, Danny will forget his own name ... let alone where he trained in martial arts. I don't see how he's going to soak that kind of punishment without being in the zone & amped on Chi. When Cap gets serious, he folds 6 inch thick iron doors in half and digs his fingers into steel.

#37 Posted by jashro44 (19902 posts) - - Show Bio

@MzombieX: Danny has been able to role with the punches of spider-man to reduce damage in the past. I don't think cap can do that much damage to him. Not sure how much chi changes iron fists stats but iron fist has also stalemated black panther (admittedly he did use chi all though T'challa had his suit).

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#38 Edited by krauser99 (826 posts) - - Show Bio

Here is Cap with shield vs Danny with one iron fist tech within him. You see there is a reason why Danny only can muster one iron fist tech as he used it prior against the wreaking crew(classic Danny....current Danny doesn't have this problem). But he wasn't really physically hurt from them during there fight. Just the strain from using the tech against the Crew. He also saved Alfred from a flight of stairs. As Cap thought he was a murderer. And then this fight takes place.

#39 Edited by krauser99 (826 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@MzombieX: Danny has been able to role with the punches of spider-man to reduce damage in the past. I don't think cap can do that much damage to him. Not sure how much chi changes iron fists stats but iron fist has also stalemated black panther (admittedly he did use chi all though T'challa had his suit).

That fight with T'challa was not standard Danny. His Chi balance was drastically changed as an amp IIRC. And in your citations for Danny against Spiderman(holds back and isn't a martial arts fighter) Plus Danny is normally under the usage of his chi. In this thread he doesn't get that so who knows if he is channeling there to boost his ki to do that feat.

#40 Posted by SlimJ87D (9364 posts) - - Show Bio

Without the use of Chi and with Steve's superior physical stats I think Steve could take a few rounds. IF is probably more skilled H2H, but in a similar set up Steve was doing well against Shang Chi, it was just a friendly spar, but Shang Chi is a type that lacks stats but makes up for in skill.

It's a close fight, but I'll give it to Steve 6/10 due to physical stat advantage.

#41 Edited by jashro44 (19902 posts) - - Show Bio

@krauser99 said:

@jashro44 said:

@MzombieX: Danny has been able to role with the punches of spider-man to reduce damage in the past. I don't think cap can do that much damage to him. Not sure how much chi changes iron fists stats but iron fist has also stalemated black panther (admittedly he did use chi all though T'challa had his suit).

That fight with T'challa was not standard Danny. He Chi balance was drastically changed as an amp IIRC. And in your citations for Danny against Spiderman(holds back and isn't a martial arts fighter) Plus Danny is normally under the usage of his chi. In this thread he doesn't get that so who knows if he is channeling there to boost his ki to do that feat.

He was allowed to use his chi continuously then. The power output or his ability to increase his speed didn't change IIRC. And cap is going to hold back assuming he can cause the amount of damage that was being said he would, and spider-man is faster than Cap.

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#42 Posted by krauser99 (826 posts) - - Show Bio

@SlimJ87D said:

Without the use of Chi and with Steve's superior physical stats I think Steve could take a few rounds. IF is probably more skilled H2H, but in a similar set up Steve was doing well against Shang Chi, it was just a friendly spar, but Shang Chi is a type that lacks stats but makes up for in skill.

It's a close fight, but I'll give it to Steve 6/10 due to physical stat advantage.

Good post. I might go with a 7-8/10 since this isn't a friendly spar though. Plus

Steve enhanced mind in hth helps as well.

#43 Posted by SlimJ87D (9364 posts) - - Show Bio

@krauser99: That's right, Steve's reflexes and timing are enhanced to the peak of human evolutionary capacity.

People are going to often point out "Steve's physical stats hardly ever play a role in his fights with DD or other street level heroes." But that's the thing, he's fighting and holding back against these guys, they're heroes. When he damages Spider-man by hitting him in the rib cage it's considered PIS (not saying he can beat Spider-man though).

You could make another comparison with their performances against Deadpool since Danny was NOT using Chi in those fights. I will defend both Danny and Steve here though.

At a certain point, DP had the knife right on Danny's rib cage. I don't know if it's because IF was mimicing Dare Devil's fighting style, but it was definitely because he wasn't using his Chi. This was also pre-amp Danny and pre-training and fighting in the 7 city tournament and 8th city of hell fight. Danny actually got better during this time.

Deadpool vs Steve Rogers:

Compared to Danny, what Steve does here is pretty impressive. Now yes, Steve got a first sucker punch, but DP has a healing factor and Steve gave him some time to recover before the fight actually started. Deadpool had a sword, and Steve was bare handed. Steve took a sword slash and a hilt butt to the temple but still managed to disarm DP and dislocate his arm. Again he started bare handed and DP's slash more than makes up for the sucker punch that Steve gave him, Steve as at a handicap this whole fight.

But like I mentioned above, DP never fought a Danny with no Chi after Danny spent months if not a few years in ku'n Lun, the 7th city tournament and 8th city training and getting better. Time passes by differently there, Danny says so himself.

#44 Posted by ghost_rider1 (3422 posts) - - Show Bio
@SlimJ87D

Still...I think dp had the upperhand and won that fight against steve. Iron fist had the upper hand on dp. And yes cap was handicapped but so was dp. Dp didn't have guns just like cap didn't have his shield. The fact that deadpool has the advantange on cap and was losing to iron fist make me believe that iron fist h2h skills are even better than steve
#45 Edited by SlimJ87D (9364 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghost_rider1 said:

@SlimJ87D Still...I think dp had the upperhand and won that fight against steve. Iron fist had the upper hand on dp. And yes cap was handicapped but so was dp. Dp didn't have guns just like cap didn't have his shield. The fact that deadpool has the advantange on cap and was losing to iron fist make me believe that iron fist h2h skills are even better than steve

Well first, it was DP's book so they weren't meeting in a neutral story like a fight in the avengers or something. Next, DP was armed regardless of your gun argument or not he was armed, Steve was not. They got a similar amount of strikes, Steve dislocated his arm, and DP choked him in the end. Adding all that up, I think Steve gets a nod for disarming DP after taking the sword strike and sword hilt butt. Would he have won if it went on? Probably not because DP has a healing factor and Steve didn't have his shield. Otherwise good arguments could be made for both.

Now those scans were being used to compare Steve to a none chi using IF. IF did not have the upper hand in that fight against DP, DP had a sword on his chest at one point but he wasn't trying to kill any of the heroes, it was just a fight. IF also had billy clubs, unlike Steve, and Steve managed to again disarm him due to possibly a more powerful strike with his superior stats over IF. But again, I made a defensive case for IF above too.

#46 Posted by dondave (34674 posts) - - Show Bio

Iron Fist ftw

#47 Posted by MzombieX (975 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@krauser99 said:

@jashro44 said:

@MzombieX: Danny has been able to role with the punches of spider-man to reduce damage in the past. I don't think cap can do that much damage to him. Not sure how much chi changes iron fists stats but iron fist has also stalemated black panther (admittedly he did use chi all though T'challa had his suit).

That fight with T'challa was not standard Danny. He Chi balance was drastically changed as an amp IIRC. And in your citations for Danny against Spiderman(holds back and isn't a martial arts fighter) Plus Danny is normally under the usage of his chi. In this thread he doesn't get that so who knows if he is channeling there to boost his ki to do that feat.

He was allowed to use his chi continuously then. The power output or his ability to increase his speed didn't change IIRC. And cap is going to hold back assuming he can cause the amount of damage that was being said he would, and spider-man is faster than Cap.

I'd have to disagree on the point of Cap holding back for this. If that's the case, then it sort of defeats the whole purpose of balance the OP created in the first place.

There isn't any reason to remove Danny's Chi, but allow Cap to keep his SSS advantage ... only to then say that Cap won't utilize this advantage. What would be the point?

It's just another way of saying you want Cap nerfed for this fight as well. They need to win by KO and the fighters will take advantage of any opportunity to deliver it.

#48 Posted by TheSwordsman (1954 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

@TheSwordsman: He's probably as close to peek human as possible w/out the SS formula

That is called Olympic level and there are a lot of people who are Olympic level, including Iron fist, and they are nowhere near peak human.

#49 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32918 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

@Charlie_Jade said:

bendis wrote this

,

I fail to see the point of this and so what if Bendis wrote it? Wolverine is more skilled than Cap is too if you're using it as a knock against Iron Fist.

that was PIS and also just played for lols considering Squirl Girl beats Wolverine in the next panel

#50 Posted by God_Spawn (37382 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jonny_Anonymous: He's already on par with Iron Fist as it is so beating him isn't PIS at all.

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