H'el vs White Lantern Kyle Rayner

@captainmarvelthunder: By the way, the Warmonger fight was bad writting. And who are those opponents weaker than H'el?

@shadowhuntr: Ok I looked up H'el I guess I was getting his Astral Projection mixed up with reality warping or something. I just remember him doing some weird stuff to Superboy too. Kyle has some impressive power output, but his body seems to still be quite vulnerable and H'el is really fast and can even teleport so I can still see him winning this. Kyle may have a lot of power but I'm not so sure if he is all that great at using it as several opponents weaker than Superman have givein him dcent fights (in addition to Warmonger the guy at the edge of the Universe did well too). Not all that sure if Kyle has actually beaten anyone that Superman cannot too besides mabey Relic (then again I only really saw Relic fight lanterns for the most part and he had weapons that worked well against them).

@shadowhuntr: Opponents weaker than H'el that Kyle fought would be Warmonger and that one guy at the edge of the Universe that was protecting it.

@captainmarvelthunder: Did you even read one New Guardian comic or you are simply looking at the wikipedia entry?

Kyle can't take much punishment? How come as a green lantern, he was able to shield himself from a supernova? God, he took a hit from the weapon of a Godkiller, which is stated to kill Gods. He's much more powerful than that now. As I said, H'el didn't fight Warmonger so how can you tell who is more powerful? The guy appeared in one comic and he was able to manipulate energy, being the reason why Kyle wasn't that great against him. Anyway, he was barely trying the whole fight and he doesn't know the full extent of his powers just yet.

Relic? Again, the only reason why he had trouble against him is because Relic took the technology of Exeter which allows his to redirect any kind of energy (including energy from the emotional spectrum). And he's more powerful than H'el (The New Guardians couldn't even hurt him or any Lanterns). I believe I already explained that to you...

Anyway, what is H'el going to do against someone who can manipulate the whole Universe? Tell me.

H'el

Kyle

@captainmarvelthunder: When did H'el teleport? It doesn't matter, Kyle can teleport as well because he has the powers of the Indigo. Kyle is much faster than H'el or Superman in travel speed. I don't think H'el ever used combat speed. He relied on his strenght more than anything. And just so you know, every superheroes were defeated by weaker characters. They all have low showings. Thor was hurt by mortar fire, Silver Surfer ko'ed by a brick. For God sake, Thanos was defeated by Squirrel Girl. Does that mean she's more powerful than Thor?

@shadowhuntr: I thought I remember him doing it (teleporting) its listed as one of his powers on the comicvine. As far as H'el using combat speed, I am sure he used it plenty of times in order to fight so well against Superman and Supergirl as strength alone is usually not enough to beat a Kryptonian.

Isn't squirrel girl known for taking down high level opponents easily though. Like it's some special ability of hers or something? Or its doesas a joke or something. Kyle may be able to stop the attacks but I don't think he is beyond being blitzed so I can see H'el getting to him and hurting him badly before he can enhance his shields to stop the attacks.

Kyle has incredibly pathetic feats~

Only VERY recent has he shown anything beyond what a normal GL (worse battle feats as a white lantern compared to his old green lantern feats) could do + healing and construct corruption via plasma spew.

Nothing Kyle has done is particularly impressive in an actual fight :(

Theoretically, he should outclass... but on the page? He's bound to lose a significant majority.

I want Kyle to win... but I can't justify it.

@captainmarvelthunder: Alright, so you are debating about two characters you know nothing about? Reading the vine page will not help you in a VS. Go read the books instead and than we can talk.

@boringperson: Yeah, you are totaly right. He hasn't done anything in a fight... yet. That's why he altered the universe codes and removed Oblivion from it... something he could do to H'el, pretty easily.

@shadowhuntr: He also got beat down, had his ring pulled off, and was left for dead by Sinestro, who, iirc has significantly worse physicals in every area than H'El even without H'El's ridiculous combination of presence concealment and teleportation... Almost everything in GL:NG shows that Kyle barely understands his newfound power and doesn't use it to nearly its full potential.

As much as I'd like to see Kyle as a full fledged high end in battle ready reality warper he's just not there.

@shadowhuntr: I have read all of H'el's appearances. And several of Kyle Rayner's. Reading a vine page can help you plenty in a VS thread (I used the vine to double check that he could teleport). Why do you think I did not read anything with them? I already mentioned some of Kyle's fights like the one with Warmonger and one with Relic.

Kyle

@captainmarvelthunder: I assume you haven't read any of them because you don't seem to know a lot about both characters. Reading the Vine is pretty much like reading the Wiki, thinking you'll know everything there is to know.

@shadowhuntr: What exactly have I gotten wrong about H'el?

@boringperson: Lol? Alright, I guess you didn't realize that Kyle was weakened badly by both the First Lantern and the dead surrounding him when he got his ass kicked by Sinestro... Cmon man. How about you pay attention?

He's not there? How come he was able to remove Oblivion from existence in one panel? Just because H'el kicked Superman's ass doesn't mean he can take a White Lantern who has the codes of the Universe.

Like I said before, who cares he can teleport? Kyle can teleport as well. He could teleport H'el somewhere else as well like he did against the Godkillers­.

that Kryptonian look badass

@captainmarvelthunder: Hmm? Reality warping? Speed blitz? Teleporting?

How about you show that to me with scans?

Reality Warping (or telekinesis on a molecular level) and Astral Projection:

http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/4160201.html

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/1/18863/2748297-screen_shot_2012_12_11_at_3.19.43_pm.png

Speed Blitz: figured this was being used in any fight with a character that usually uses super speed when fighitng (i.e. Superman or Supergirl).

Teleporting: in Superman 16 doesn't he teleport the whole fortress of Solitude away when he becomes angry when Superboy hurts Supergirl

H'el

@captainmarvelthunder:

1 : Reality warping and molecular control are totaly different things...

Molecular control = Captain Atom

Reality warping = Mr. Mxy.

They aren't the same...

2 : A lot of characters that have super speed don't have combat speed. Ex : Thor doesn't ''blitz'' his opponents because he can't. Silver Surfer either.

3 : He teleports it with tech. Not with his powers.

Again, you haven't showed me how H'el could beat a guy who would wipe him out from existance.

@shadowhuntr: Are not his powers like a Kryptonians and he was able to fight better than people with blitzing powers. He managed to overwhelm Superman and Supergirl quickly so I don't know how he has not shown great combat speed sinse he was able to take them out. Aren't these reason enough to believe that he can fight at incredible speeds as well?

Kyle definitely has more potential power but he has shown difficulty using it to put down his opponents as easily as he should in the past. Even in the scans you provided he admits to difficulty using the powers to their fullest potential. If H'el can get to him and unlesh some attacks I don't see why victory for H'el is impossible as Kyle has shown that he can be hurt even as a white lantern by foes I believe to be below H'el.

Kyle

Kyle

@captainmarvelthunder: Look, even if H'el had combat speed, Kyle was able to react to people going FTL in the past so it won't matter.

Kyle was able to shield himself from a supernova as a GL. He's much more powerful than that now. He didn't have difficulties removing Oblivion. He did it in one panel. He just thought he might kill himself, which clearly didn't happen. And stop saying that Kyle was defeated by people weaker than H'el. I said it before. That's annoying. Relic is much more powerful than H'el.

@shadowhuntr: Don't recall continually saying that Kyle was defeated by people weaker than H'el just that some others gave him trouble.

Change your mind?

@reaverlation I'm not actually sure why I said H'el in the first place.

@dondave: Thought the same thing when you first posted that

Unless h'el has made some more reent appearance I don't know about, Kyle.

@captainmarvelthunder: Dude, every ''opponents'' that gave him trouble had the ability to absorb the emotional spectrum. What can't you understand? They were made so the fight would last longer than 1 panel. Why do you think Relic was able to beat EVERY Lanterns? Because he took the tech of Exeter which was able to absorb energy and than used it to protect himself. The only way they managed to hurt him was to teleport behind his ''forcefield'' to punch him. Justin Jordan said that he had to create characters that could withstand energy well because it would be boring otherwise to make them fight Kyle. Anyway, Kyle could simply teleport H'el in a black hole.. or remove him from the universe.

Even without that power, Kyle is still more powerful than H'el in many ways.

@shadowhuntr: Can't H'el destroy his body on a molecular level also?

@captainmarvelthunder: He never even did that. Why do you keep saying that kind of things? He destroyed the body of Superboy BECAUSE he's a clone and made differently. He never did that to Superman or any other member of the Justice League. Anyway, why do you keep debating? You don't bring anything new to this debate and you can't prove me that H'el has an answer to Kyle removing him from the universe. As simple as that.

Kyle wins 10/10. It's like comparing someone with the powers of Mr. Mxy and someone who has the powers of Superman and a little bit of Captain Atom.

What feats does kYle have? He has potential, but being stronger than featless gaurdians isn't impressive at all. Has he defeated anyone as strong as Wraith?

Thanks for calling me out on context while you ignore your own. Kyle beat Oblivion by attempting suicide. He has no idea how to actually control his rewriting of the Source Code.

Kyle has shown hilariously slow charge up teleportation requiring focusing on the indigo spectrum. Recently he even almost killed himself by teleporting a few hundred civilians away. Sure, he could teleport H'El away, and H'El would teleport back... Kyle hasn't shown the capability to use it in combat and needs to focus when teleporting single persons. That's why he still prefers to hyperjump like every other Lantern... even the Indigos.

H'El has shown forcible teleportation at will. He could let Kyle fire at him then teleport Kyle in the way of his own blast. He could teleport Kyle into his punches an teleport Kyle away when Kyle tries to counter.

Kyle's feats are poor. He's shown nothing useful in combat that his previous Green Lantern incarnation couldn't do better. *Other than infinite charge and red lantern plasma spew.

Kyle has a lot of potential but really he lacks feats, I think so. Not sure, I'll go with the guy whos stronger faster n durable than supes, has tp n tk.

Hel

Kyle wins.

I'll ask again; What feats does kYle have? He has potential, but being stronger than featless gaurdians isn't impressive at all. Has he defeated anyone as strong as Wraith?

Kyle is more powerful and I wouldn't say by a small margin.

Kyle .

Kyle