H'El vs Thanos

Based on what exactly?

Thanos turns Skrull into stone

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Physically dissolve Mantis's molecules

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Turning Reptyl into god

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You keep saying people have no idea about He'l, looks to me you have very little idea about Thanos here though mate.

Somewhat teleport? The guy has teleported across, space, time and reality?

Not sure what somewhat teleport even entails?

And Thanos can track energies and seek people just fine.

You humor attempt to lowball Surfer is awesome but massively misplaced. Then again, its not like Surfer is the only person Thanos has beaten in his career but lets entertain this point for a while.

This is cute and all but so has Surfer.

He has fought Primoil gods that defeated Galactus, he has fought a being who an entire universe, not sure what there is to suggest Superman is superior to Surfer, if you wanna go down that route fine, you wanna trade Superman's feat with Surfer be my guest, i can do that just fine.

And Surfer watches and goes thru supernovas for lolz?

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Thanos himself was completely unharmed by a Gas Giant exploding, which are significantly bigger than normal planets.

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So what was your point again?

You are downplaying Surfer based on Doom, the guy who has taken on entire Avengers, gods and devil when he sees fit? Really?

Name me 1 street level that has owned Surfer please i am curious?

BTW would you like me to start putting scans of Batman making Superman bleed and Ocean Master knocking him out?? All happened in new 52 btw.

Lowballing a character is rather easy.

Speed is one thing i have no question rest are just hilariously wrong, but lets counter that individually shall we?

H'El is a psionic God. He can destroy anyone at will. In this first scan he is walking as a ghost after he teleported (from present day earth) to the past and lightyears away into the planet krypton years before its destruction.

cute.

Lets see, Clocking himself, Thanos was clocking Gamora against another god-like character, Magus. And honestly if you wanna talk about Superman and all need i remind you Magus was so cosmically in-tuned he was manipulating Galactus, Eternity, Earth heroes and even LT for his purpose of making him an omnipotent god and has on his own accord teleported and destroyed planets (18 in 1 go).

Here are the scans if you are interested and note he wasnt anywhere near the spaceship when that happed. Also Thanos teleports from Titans into a space ship, which at the time was hovering over Earth, testament of a massive teleportation ability something you were interested in correct?

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Telepathy, and time travel, my last 2 replies to the guy above you has got that covered, i can of course re post those if necessary.

So :

1. Thanos can cloak people without even physically being on the same place, from planets away, and against people with godlike senses. So his invisibility isnt a problem it goes both ways.

2. Thanos has telepathy, he has defeated Moondragon in telepathy, and has one of the best telepathic resistant in marvel, He'l telepathy, which is as untested as it gets isnt gaining anything over Thanos.

3. Time Travel, Thanos has done that too. He has manipulated time, you will see this scan in my last response to the other guy in the same thread.

Firstly i have seen absolutely nothing to suggest He'l power outclass Thanos, and i dont expect to see anything given i have read He'l on Earth myself.

Secondly cloaking isnt something only He'l can do, so there's that.

Neither is telepathy, nor matter manipulation, nor time travel, nor teleportation.

Would you like me make a list of things Thanos can do that He'l cant?

And Thanos cant do that ?

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Cool, but Magus himself has comic awareness to a point he can predict futures, he can manipulate people on Earth 616 by being severals universeS away, as seen during Infinity Wars.

And Thanos was cloaking Gamora just fine against him, without even being on the same planet.

Cute but baseless.

And a low level telepath can control Hulk?

I recall Prof X not being able to TP him or Emma with Phoenix Force not being able to TP Red Hulk, but again thats not the only feat.

You are trying to tell me Superman has better telepathic defense than a proper planetary class telepath like Moondragon?

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Thanos goes around turning guys like Fallen One into his herald telepathically, not sure what to comment on his telepathic abilities really.

Cool, but Thanos was teleporting heroes across entire planets, how does that compare?

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This is something i havent seen other writers actually include, but Thanos after retiring as a villain by the end of Infinity Gauntlet created a fleet of dreadnaught, who have traditionally being capable of annihilating everyone on a planet and was calling them forth on a whim. Not denying he had prep for this fight, a 24 hrs prep, but those fleets are still not been destroyed and he defeated a being , Captain Marvel's cosmic sense confirmed to be more powerful than Galactus

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In regards to ability to teleport people Thanos has taken Surfer from Earth dimension to Death domain just fine.

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I am a little unsure to what i am supposed to see on this barrage of scans? Fact that He'l was superior to Superboy?

Coz you know marvel has outright gone on to say Thanos is superior to Ultron, the guy who was taken on entire Avengers head on numberous time and always gets defeated by plot, a person who has nearly killed them all but choose not to, with 1 move.

I am guessing there is something there i am missing?

Also one of the opponent Thanos defeated, Beyonder, was turning bunch of people into ant size.

Its a nice barriage of scans but i am not really seeing a point in this. What am i missing here?

And if breaking someone on Genetic level is the impressive feat, how about absorbing entire life force of people around him to turn another person into a god? How does that rank up?

Scan shown above to you actually.

This is nice and all but it still doesnt answer He'l never having fought anyone on Thanos level.

As per planetary power, need i remind you that one of the person Thanos has beaten, Magus teleported and destroyed 18 planets.

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Also one of the person Thanos has casually beaten (Marvel has outright said Thanos is a whole other level compared to Surfer), and that you were trying to hard to lowball, was warping space, time and reality simply having nightmare.

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Or repaired a destroyed city casually being near death.

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And repaired an entire fractured planet, you will also find the cover recaps to give you the whole story

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As per over-selling Superman benchpressing Earth, Thor, another opponent that Thanos has defeated and been confirmed to be more powerful was cracking multiple planets as a side effect of his fight with Gorr.

Surfer himself has destroyed planet and created a black holes just to make a point.

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Surfer has also destroyed a planet, and affected multiple planets in the vicinity to defeat Morg.

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And apart from him having beaten Thor and Surfer, and Marvel outright saying Thanos is more powerful than Ultron, here is another instance where Thanos is kept in a whole different league compared to heroes including Surfer.

Heck Drax the destroyer has actually ripped apart an entire star.

Someone who Thanos has defeated in a fight that destroyed the planet they were fighting on.

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So if you are going to use New 52 Superman bench pressing to over-estimate H'el and i can better and show you a lot more instance just as well.

So are we really still pretending all of this?

If so then well to each his own :)

@blazinghell: The New 52 Super Family or New 52 JL would lose to Thanos.Until,H'el fight New 52 Darkseid or any other Thanos level characters.But currently,H'el haven't fought no Sky Father type characters.

Thanks, :)

This is turning interesting, stay tuned :)

What opponent? the only person Thanos has ever lost without a plot like cosmic cube being or infinity gem being involved would include only 2: Squarrel Girl in great Lake X-mas special , which clearly was an attempted humor and second would be Beyonder, a fight he won in the next encounter.

I still get the feeling you massively underestimate Thanos, hopefully that would change once you read my last reply, i could keep putting up feats from that, he actually has plenty , contrary to what you are stating.

Really, i am still here and open to debate? :)

Wanna try..

Nah those scans basically closed the debate. Thanos gets his a$$ handed to him. CIN.

Awesome, so lets look at his scans and not see the counter presented in the same page... Sounds fair :)

@blazinghell: HOLY CRAP MAN. Bravo. H'el is one of my favorites and you did an amazing job. Ive read H'el on earth twice and I missed some of those things. I mean, I saw them, just didnt pay attention to what was actually happening because i was concentrating on reading the dialogue. One question though. How do we know superman flew allllll the way to the source wall? I thought it was just a meteor.

@killemall: I don't have a real opinion on this fight, other than He'l seems to be in Thanos's league but definitely not above him in any drastic way. But I do have a question regarding one of the scans you posted. You said Thor's strikes against Gorr were destroying planets as side effects but the scan doesn't quite say that, it just says that they are indeed breaking. Is there more to this scan?

@tommyjones1945: Wow dude. You do like to ignore flawless proof don't cha?

The most amazing thing of it all is that H'ell has only appeared in a few issues.

@foreverevil: Did you read Killemail post

Its pretty much all that in the scan, that his strikes were actually cracking the planet they were standing on and a planet that was so far away that Thor originally thought it was a moon.

The series earlier in issue # 2 makes it so that Thor should be capable of destroying planets given how powerful his hammer is.

BTW have you read Infinity # 4 yet, there is a pretty cool feat from Thanos there as well.

@ghostravage: Agree

He'l didnt hit Superman all the way to the sourcewall. I went back and read it. It says he's about 100,000 miles away from the moon when he slammed into some type of floating rock. So since the moon is 238,900 miles away from earth. H'el basically hit superman with one punch and sent him flying 350,000 miles away. Would have been more too if superman hadnt been stopped by that rock. Or maybe it was Oracle that stopped him.

EDITED: Superman was indeed caught by the Oracle. So who knows how much farther he would have flown with that one punch

Neither Thanos nor H'el is omniscient/omnipotent or near omniscient/omnipotent. If you honestly think so then you don't really understand what that is.

That Thor can destroy planets/Gorr scan is pretty BS. The scan only says he ignores the sound of planets breaking, and doesn't say Thor/the fight/or his blows are the cause of it. CIN. Hope this helped.

Not sure if i get what you are trying to say, it says as well as shows 2 planets on panel cracking as a side effect of the fight between Gorr and Thor.

Are you saying they were just fighting and planets decided, hey you know what, we are on panel, lets break for no reason just for lolz?

@homicidalmaniac: I mean wow. No one can do anything about it rather than sit back and enjoy how utterly obvious people is ignoring such proof. Pay close attention to this my friend, you'll have a very clear and wide view on some people here and how they act. ;)

Then explain what the cause of the planet cracking is? And why would the artist make a point to show the planet cracking if it wasn't a result of the fight?

That is near omnipotent by Marvel standard, they have gone up and come up with weird concepts like level of infinity and they outright definite omnipotent in comics in relative terms, from point of view. Marvel has gone to outright say Odin is omnipotent from the point of view of Earth heroes while there are beings beyond Odin's comprehension, which actually was pretty cool.

So yeah in marvel near omnipotent sort of means capable of doing a lot of things other people cant, rather than what it is actually supposed to mean, after all its a universe with so many omnipotent characters are artifacts, each of whom are drawfed by others.

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Theres no such thing as near infinity. or near omnipotent or near omniscient.

In real life of course not.

But in a fictional universe like Marvel there is, its a concept Marvel has well accepted.

They also have whole stuffs like Infinity Unision, Infinity gauntlet and Heart of Infinity, each of whom individually omnipotent while progressive being weaker than the next.

Its weird, and amusing concept all at the same time :)

I go by the actual meaning which should be used considering this is a battle involving more than just Marvel which goes beyond their standard how they see it. Regardless I would consider Marvels use more of a hyperbole than an actual defining because their standard was limited by perspective and point of view. Because they didn't have unlimited power and there were beings more powerful preclude them from actually being that.

I haven't read the issue. (I don't read much Thor) But from the last panel, it seems to be done to distract Thor from the fight. CIN.

Fair point.

I am not saying one should beat the other because one is called near-omnipotent or otherwise, that was never the intention anyways.

What i was however saying is, that counts as a feat, a marvel way of saying look this character is powerful.

Hyperbole or otherwise, Marvel isnt going to go out of its way and calls someone who is clearly not meant to pretty damn powerful as near-omnipotent wouldnt you think.

But yeah i agree, in real world sense , they were never meant to be near omnipotent, but rather by a company standard, which pretty much translate to marvel saying Thanos is very powerful, as opposed to how it actually reads "near omnipotent".

It certainly wasnt done to distract Thor and Thor is fighting someone who wants to humiliate and imprison Thor, and is perfectly powerful enough to do so, i.e. Gorr.

Unlikely for Gorr to have such intention anyways, after all before this issue Thor has had couple of fights with Gorr , and Gorr strategy was to face Thor head on and still beat the snot out of him.

The amount of ignorance in this thread is amazing!

I feel like Killemall's effort are being put to waste.

@tommyjones1945: @blazinghell: call me when h'el can tank a blast from a nourished Galactus or Odin and survive until then Thanos will win!

I'mma say Thanos.

@killemall said:

@blazinghell said:

No, he can't. He cannot manipulate it nowhere near H'El's capability.

Based on what exactly?

Thanos turns Skrull into stone

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Physically dissolve Mantis's molecules

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Turning Reptyl into god

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You keep saying people have no idea about He'l, looks to me you have very little idea about Thanos here though mate.

Thanos can somewhat teleport. But H'El can find him wherever he runs to. Thanos cannot find H'El.

Somewhat teleport? The guy has teleported across, space, time and reality?

Not sure what somewhat teleport even entails?

And Thanos can track energies and seek people just fine.

Thanos beat the Surfer? Hehehehe...that's cute.

You humor attempt to lowball Surfer is awesome but massively misplaced. Then again, its not like Surfer is the only person Thanos has beaten in his career but lets entertain this point for a while.

Hehehehe...that's cute. Superman by himself takes on groups of cosmic and above cosmic level characters on a daily basis.

This is cute and all but so has Surfer.

He has fought Primoil gods that defeated Galactus, he has fought a being who an entire universe, not sure what there is to suggest Superman is superior to Surfer, if you wanna go down that route fine, you wanna trade Superman's feat with Surfer be my guest, i can do that just fine.

He on his own has tanked the explosion of planets (and kept his clothes unscathed).

And Surfer watches and goes thru supernovas for lolz?

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Thanos himself was completely unharmed by a Gas Giant exploding, which are significantly bigger than normal planets.

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So what was your point again?

Doom owns him on a daily basis.

You are downplaying Surfer based on Doom, the guy who has taken on entire Avengers, gods and devil when he sees fit? Really?

Street levelers have owned him. Panther put him in a choke hold and was about to subdue him. He's a joke.

Name me 1 street level that has owned Surfer please i am curious?

BTW would you like me to start putting scans of Batman making Superman bleed and Ocean Master knocking him out?? All happened in new 52 btw.

Lowballing a character is rather easy.

Thanos for all his might isn't on par with H'el's speed (and yes that does matter). He isn't on par with his powers either. Thanos is going to be fighting a ghost whose psionic abilities far outclass his own. Adding insult to injury with his physical capabilities.

Speed is one thing i have no question rest are just hilariously wrong, but lets counter that individually shall we?

H'El is a psionic God. He can destroy anyone at will. In this first scan he is walking as a ghost after he teleported (from present day earth) to the past and lightyears away into the planet krypton years before its destruction.

cute.

Lets see, Clocking himself, Thanos was clocking Gamora against another god-like character, Magus. And honestly if you wanna talk about Superman and all need i remind you Magus was so cosmically in-tuned he was manipulating Galactus, Eternity, Earth heroes and even LT for his purpose of making him an omnipotent god and has on his own accord teleported and destroyed planets (18 in 1 go).

Here are the scans if you are interested and note he wasnt anywhere near the spaceship when that happed. Also Thanos teleports from Titans into a space ship, which at the time was hovering over Earth, testament of a massive teleportation ability something you were interested in correct?

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Telepathy, and time travel, my last 2 replies to the guy above you has got that covered, i can of course re post those if necessary.

So :

1. Thanos can cloak people without even physically being on the same place, from planets away, and against people with godlike senses. So his invisibility isnt a problem it goes both ways.

2. Thanos has telepathy, he has defeated Moondragon in telepathy, and has one of the best telepathic resistant in marvel, He'l telepathy, which is as untested as it gets isnt gaining anything over Thanos.

3. Time Travel, Thanos has done that too. He has manipulated time, you will see this scan in my last response to the other guy in the same thread.

Again. How in the hell can Thanos fight someone he cannot detect and whose powers out class him? He can't.

Firstly i have seen absolutely nothing to suggest He'l power outclass Thanos, and i dont expect to see anything given i have read He'l on Earth myself.

Secondly cloaking isnt something only He'l can do, so there's that.

Neither is telepathy, nor matter manipulation, nor time travel, nor teleportation.

Would you like me make a list of things Thanos can do that He'l cant?

But of course instead of destroying them he BFR's them because we need the characters after all...

And Thanos cant do that ?

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Now. These two characters have the greatest sense acuity in comics. Both Superman and Kara can hear ants move in China. Hell, Superman has heard a scream for help coming from planet Mars while he was on earth working at the daily planet. How he heard that through the sheer distance and vapidness of space is beyond me but this is fiction people... He then proceeded to fly straight to the planet and arrive in around a second after he heard it. (both a sense feat and a tremendous speed feat)

And yet here he stands unable to detect H'El floating just above BOTH him and Kara. This is a showing of his psionic and telepathic capabilites. It also shows the control he has over his power that are looking up to be limitless.

Cool, but Magus himself has comic awareness to a point he can predict futures, he can manipulate people on Earth 616 by being severals universeS away, as seen during Infinity Wars.

And Thanos was cloaking Gamora just fine against him, without even being on the same planet.

Thanos cannot do anything to Superman on a psionic level BUT H'EL can. (I can't believe you used that Hulk feat as if it mattered. A low level telepath could control him.)

Cute but baseless.

And a low level telepath can control Hulk?

I recall Prof X not being able to TP him or Emma with Phoenix Force not being able to TP Red Hulk, but again thats not the only feat.

You are trying to tell me Superman has better telepathic defense than a proper planetary class telepath like Moondragon?

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Thanos goes around turning guys like Fallen One into his herald telepathically, not sure what to comment on his telepathic abilities really.

Here you see H'El bfr himself and Supes to the suicide slums. Despite Kal's invulnerability to TK and TP attacks he is powerless before H'El. He then proceeds to psionically drill him to the ground at will. Even decides to spare him.

Cool, but Thanos was teleporting heroes across entire planets, how does that compare?

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This is something i havent seen other writers actually include, but Thanos after retiring as a villain by the end of Infinity Gauntlet created a fleet of dreadnaught, who have traditionally being capable of annihilating everyone on a planet and was calling them forth on a whim. Not denying he had prep for this fight, a 24 hrs prep, but those fleets are still not been destroyed and he defeated a being , Captain Marvel's cosmic sense confirmed to be more powerful than Galactus

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In regards to ability to teleport people Thanos has taken Surfer from Earth dimension to Death domain just fine.

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H'El takes on Kon. This is important because Kon is the only character that can even try to contend with H'El.

In these scans H'El is again a ghost. Notice how Kon's friend has no clue of what is going on but yet Kon is hearing voices. Hell, he is even floating right infront of them and a group of people and still nobody could detect him. H'El can pretty much decide to become invisible to everyone but the person he desires to be seen by as shown here. Then he proceeds to lay him out.

H'El is able to make Kon speak in kryptonian.

I am a little unsure to what i am supposed to see on this barrage of scans? Fact that He'l was superior to Superboy?

Coz you know marvel has outright gone on to say Thanos is superior to Ultron, the guy who was taken on entire Avengers head on numberous time and always gets defeated by plot, a person who has nearly killed them all but choose not to, with 1 move.

I am guessing there is something there i am missing?

Also one of the opponent Thanos defeated, Beyonder, was turning bunch of people into ant size.

Then casually takes on the titans. One shots them even. They also have kid flash with them. The one that was able to defeat Prime yet here he gets slapped like all the rest.

Then proceeds to break down Kon on a genetic level and leaves him for dead. (he would have died where it not for Supes healing him soon after)

Its a nice barriage of scans but i am not really seeing a point in this. What am i missing here?

And if breaking someone on Genetic level is the impressive feat, how about absorbing entire life force of people around him to turn another person into a god? How does that rank up?

Scan shown above to you actually.

Here is Superman this time at rejuvenated power after racing back across space(carrying all that momentum and speed around FTL) manages to pummel H'El by surprise. This time he pushes beyond his bench pressing limit and now being in a powered state, delivers multiple planetary blows to H'El's face.

This is nice and all but it still doesnt answer He'l never having fought anyone on Thanos level.

As per planetary power, need i remind you that one of the person Thanos has beaten, Magus teleported and destroyed 18 planets.

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Also one of the person Thanos has casually beaten (Marvel has outright said Thanos is a whole other level compared to Surfer), and that you were trying to hard to lowball, was warping space, time and reality simply having nightmare.

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Or repaired a destroyed city casually being near death.

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And repaired an entire fractured planet, you will also find the cover recaps to give you the whole story

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As per over-selling Superman benchpressing Earth, Thor, another opponent that Thanos has defeated and been confirmed to be more powerful was cracking multiple planets as a side effect of his fight with Gorr.

Surfer himself has destroyed planet and created a black holes just to make a point.

Gallery

Surfer has also destroyed a planet, and affected multiple planets in the vicinity to defeat Morg.

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And apart from him having beaten Thor and Surfer, and Marvel outright saying Thanos is more powerful than Ultron, here is another instance where Thanos is kept in a whole different league compared to heroes including Surfer.

Heck Drax the destroyer has actually ripped apart an entire star.

Someone who Thanos has defeated in a fight that destroyed the planet they were fighting on.

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So if you are going to use New 52 Superman bench pressing to over-estimate H'el and i can better and show you a lot more instance just as well.

Seriously this is ridiculous. Thanos wouldn't even beat Kal-El on any day of the week even him (Kal) being in a depowered state. How in the hell does he stand a chance against someone that is leagues above him?

Physically, psionically and intellectually outclassed.

This would look slightly more plausible if Thanos had a bunch of years of prep, a gang of his cosmic buddies and catches H'El sleeping unaware. And yet he still losses.

H'El stomps Thanos so hard that it tears a whole in reality. Then H'El goes back into the past and kills him again for good measure. Then uses his remains to create a servant copy of Thanos.

H'El brutally stomps the overrated titan.

So are we really still pretending all of this?

If so then well to each his own :)

There is nothing else to write in this thread after this post great defense i was leaning towards to H'ell but this is more than enough to convince me, i don't understand how Blazinghell ignoring this

@killemall:

Alright, I might have to read the issues cause i'm still skeptical and I don't know context, either way it seems to be that Thor is getting a lot of love in his solo series. Oh and I haven't read any of the infinity stuff but I've been planning too, Thanos is such a great villain and it'll be nice to see him smacking some fools around.

Bench press has absolutely no effect on striking/punching. The feat is not a durability feat but a feat of stamina and endurance

@blazinghell: "Strength does not equal punching power, stamina or fighting skill. F = m x a (Force = mass x acceleration). This means, in terms of punching power; how fast (acceleration) you can put your weight (mass) behind your punch is more important than how much weight you can lift (strength) in determining how hard (force) you will strike/hit your target." - PowerHerc

(from Common misconceptions: Strength vs speed thread http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/speed-vs-strength-common-misconceptions-608680/ ) Check out the strength section, it's the first post on the page

@god_spawn:

Sorry dude, but I just couldn't keep it in that time. Won't happen again.

Good God!

And why exactly are you warning me about it. Its also not the only time a character has shown a planetary level feat. Drax was ripping apart the very core of the star, small or otherwise, thats significantly better than a planetary level strength, who didnt fair any better against Thanos.

Magus was teleporting and destroyed 18 planets on his own power. Thor was cracking multiple planets as a side effect. Surfer has destroyed a planet and was affecting multiple planet in the vicinity, he also created a black hole because of his energy output.

All of whom Thanos has beaten, so i dont see how Superman's earth benching feat would be a be all and end all to suggest his or H'el superiority over Thanos when he has consistently beaten guys of the same Calibur.

Have you read War of Kings? Black Bolt voice was going to be used as a weapon in the story to destroy entire planet. Infinity # 4 we get to see Thanos vs Black Blot, who screamed at Thanos 4 times and Thanos beat the hell out of him.

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1. Because he has extremely impressive durability.

2. Because he can have his shield up effectively cutting off any attack.

But we are moving out goal post here arent we? Our conversation started with Thanos couldnt teleport like He'l , cant matter manipulate like He'l and he had no answer to his versatility, now all you have got is speed.

Thanos has fought plenty of fast character before, he also has enchanced reflexes, he also has shield to prevent blitz, he has things stacked up for him.

The only person to have successfully blitz him would be Runner, one of marvel fastest character, with space gem, which gives unlimited speed.

So can Vision, and he didnt fair any better against Thanos during Avengers : Celestial Quest # 6, in fact issue # 7 shows Vision desperately trying to escape Thanos force bubble and failing.

Just because he was able to read Supergirl's thought, so can Thanos, its no biggie.

Read Thanos's thought without his consent. Moondragon with mind gem tried here's what she has to say.

Also i have no idea why would Thanos be hiding though.

So can Thanos, whats your point?

The only thing he can do in Astral self, to Thanos is try and TP him, many, many many have tried that and has never worked. The only exceptation of TP working against Thanos, without him wanting to came in Thanos Imperative, against a weakened Thanos, where 3 telepaths: Mantis, Moondragon and Cosmos, together held Thanos and simultaneously agreed he is growing progressively more powerful and they can no longer TP him.

Again i dont see a point apart from pretending Thanos has no counter to any of the abilities here.

honestly i would totally recommend you do, as in both the series. Thor God of Thunder is awesome as is Infinity.

Infinity # 4 Thanos fights Black Bolt, who screams at him multiple times, even at point blank, Thanos takes it and beats the crap out of him.

@killemall: Stop trying mate, he's probably just trolling, nobody can be that stupid and blind at the same time. (I'm now waiting for warning about insulting people lol)

^You really should stop insulting people bcus they disagree with you. Its really pathetic, and shows zero maturity.

CIN.

@blazinghell said:

@eternityx said:

@blazinghell said:

It's become apparent to me that absolutely none of you have the slightest of ideas as to exactly who or what H'El really is. Because if you did you would know exactly how hard he stomps Thanos. Thanos wouldn't even be able to beat Superman.

@hellionvulcan said:

@blazinghell said:

He took out Superman, Supergirl and Superboy all at the same time and effortlessly. Thanos wouldn't even be able to put down Superman.

Um what Thanos could beat them down easy he'd telepathically control them or even slug it out with them since his durability & strength (& his other powers) is insanely high maybe around skyfather level going by his fight with Odin .Others have said H'EL doesn't have enough feats .

No. He wouldn't beat them down AT ALL. Not a single one of them as a matter of fact, let alone all of them together. Thanos can't contend on their speed let alone strength, array of powers and numbers. He would get torn like toilet paper.

H'El has ridiculous feats for his very limited showing. Enough to put Thanos in the ground multiple times in the timestream.

@killemall said:

@blazinghell said:

Thanos can't fight FTL. He can't manipulate matter at the scale H'el can. He can't teleport at will. The list goes on and on. On top of that H'el is physically more powerful than he is. How in the hell does thanos even stand a chance?

The underlined part is just wrong, Thanos has matter manipulation just fine and has teleported at will, willy nilly, even across time and reality when he has to be.

H'el isnt physically stronger than Thanos either.

No, he can't. He cannot manipulate it nowhere near H'El's capability. Not like it matters truly. Not only is he stronger physically he is also leagues more durable. Thanos can somewhat teleport. But H'El can find him wherever he runs to. Thanos cannot find H'El.

Thanos beat the Surfer? Hehehehe...that's cute. Superman by himself takes on groups of cosmic and above cosmic level characters on a daily basis. He on his own has tanked the explosion of planets (and kept his clothes unscathed). So, that isn't very impressive. Stating that he beat Silver Surfer is nothing impressive either. Let's face it. Surfer lays down for everyone. Beating him shouldn't even be considered a feat due to his inconsistency. Doom owns him on a daily basis. Street levelers have owned him. Panther put him in a choke hold and was about to subdue him. He's a joke.

Thanos for all his might isn't on par with H'el's speed (and yes that does matter). He isn't on par with his powers either. Thanos is going to be fighting a ghost whose psionic abilities far outclass his own. Adding insult to injury with his physical capabilities.

H'El is a psionic God. He can destroy anyone at will. In this first scan he is walking as a ghost after he teleported (from present day earth) to the past and lightyears away into the planet krypton years before its destruction.

But of course instead of destroying them he BFR's them because we need the characters after all...

Again. How in the hell can Thanos fight someone he cannot detect and whose powers out class him? He can't.

In this next scan you see exactly why he just can't win.

Now. These two characters have the greatest sense acuity in comics. Both Superman and Kara can hear ants move in China. Hell, Superman has heard a scream for help coming from planet Mars while he was on earth working at the daily planet. How he heard that through the sheer distance and vapidness of space is beyond me but this is fiction people... He then proceeded to fly straight to the planet and arrive in around a second after he heard it. (both a sense feat and a tremendous speed feat)

And yet here he stands unable to detect H'El floating just above BOTH him and Kara. This is a showing of his psionic and telepathic capabilites. It also shows the control he has over his power that are looking up to be limitless.

Now you are probably thinking to yourself that Thanos could probably psionically control Superman. He can't. Simply because Superman is immune to those naturally. "Well maybe he can telepathically control him!" Nope. Not this version of him. At this stage he had made himself invulnerable to psychic attacks per Morrison's run (which came before). Case in point.

Just to give you guys some background on the scan. Superman was battling a planet level telepath. The Kansas Superman. His ability to control minds on a worldly level was unparalleled (almost manchester like). He even assisted Superman in defeating a bloodlusted 5d imp. The guy is top of the food chain telepath. And yet he could not do anything to Superman past this point. Thanos cannot do anything to Superman on a psionic level BUT H'EL can. (I can't believe you used that Hulk feat as if it mattered. A low level telepath could control him.)

Here you see H'El bfr himself and Supes to the suicide slums. Despite Kal's invulnerability to TK and TP attacks he is powerless before H'El. He then proceeds to psionically drill him to the ground at will. Even decides to spare him.

H'El takes on Kon. This is important because Kon is the only character that can even try to contend with H'El.

In these scans H'El is again a ghost. Notice how Kon's friend has no clue of what is going on but yet Kon is hearing voices. Hell, he is even floating right infront of them and a group of people and still nobody could detect him. H'El can pretty much decide to become invisible to everyone but the person he desires to be seen by as shown here. Then he proceeds to lay him out.

H'El is able to make Kon speak in kryptonian.

Notice how Kon's friend thinks he's crazy as he sees him plummet. He STILL can't see H'El.

Kon tries to hurt H'El and for all his effort gets laid out like a punk.

Then casually takes on the titans. One shots them even. They also have kid flash with them. The one that was able to defeat Prime yet here he gets slapped like all the rest.

Then proceeds to break down Kon on a genetic level and leaves him for dead. (he would have died where it not for Supes healing him soon after)

H'El could have killed them all with a thought. But decides to teleport himself with Kon.

To make things worse for poor Thanos. H'El is also practically nigh omniscient if not omniscient.

there lies kara sleeping. dwelling in her thoughts hidden away in Sanctuary. A blink later and she's over the sun.

H'El has never been in sanctuary. He has somehow read her thoughts as she drifted and noticed her weakened state. All of a sudden he knows where she is at and has the power to BFR her and himself near the sun.

Somehow finds the fortress of solitude. Again H'El has never been or seen the Fortress. No way of knowing where it is exactly. Nobody before then has been able to find it let alone break into it. Yet H'El casually phases inside while knowing what Kon and Kal are talking about then proceeding to unceremoniously bfr them both out with a thought. (then somehow psionically locks all entries to the point Kal has to ask a genius level intellect in Luthor for help on how to get in)

Again he goes on to one shot Superman, Wonder Woman and Kon. Then decides to break down Kon again. Despite Kon wearing the indestructible kryptonian armor, H'El tears it apart like wet paper.

Thanos gets stomped horridly with only H'El's psionic powers.

H'El also outclasses him physically...

Kryptonians are ridiculously powerful when it comes to physicality. Superman ALONE can bench press the weight of the earth for 5 days (and he was game to do more) straight while being in a depowered state. Superman's limits don't end there. The machine could not calculate levels above the earth's weight and to do so it would need a pan dimensional wormhole that would tear a hole in reality. Kryptonian blows are beyond planetary.

God knows how much H'El can press given that he has been exposed to different types of radiation, for longer periods of time and some dna splicing.

H'El one shots Superman from the earth, across the galaxy and into the source wall so far that he meets the oracle.

H'El hits him so hard that he turns Supes underwear red again.

Then an entire issue later.

For the love of god this is overkill on poor Thanos. Do you hate him?

Again, appears out of nowhere after reading both their thoughts and one shots Wonder Woman.

The battle won't even get physical. Thanos would get ripped apart by an opponent who he can't even detect.

But just for the lulz here are some durability feats.

Here is Superman this time at rejuvenated power after racing back across space(carrying all that momentum and speed around FTL) manages to pummel H'El by surprise. This time he pushes beyond his bench pressing limit and now being in a powered state, delivers multiple planetary blows to H'El's face.

Only to have H'El one shot him again. (notice how H'El's arm is invisible only leaving an after image of the blow)

H'El lays him out for a while with a single punch then gets up as if he didn't just eat a bunch of planet busting punches (coming at ridiculous speeds). Good as new.

Another bonus one just for the lulz.

tanks a full powered Supergirl who isn't holding back. Does not even budge. The sheer force of him standing there sends her thrashing to the 'floor'. Supergirl has been able to overtake anyone she has come across regardless of power level and yet here she was stopped dead. H'El's constitution was able to even render Kara's arms useless. Keep in mind that they are also over a healthy sun and despite that Kara could not budge H'El even after coming at him full speed.

Seriously this is ridiculous. Thanos wouldn't even beat Kal-El on any day of the week even him (Kal) being in a depowered state. How in the hell does he stand a chance against someone that is leagues above him?

Physically, psionically and intellectually outclassed.

This would look slightly more plausible if Thanos had a bunch of years of prep, a gang of his cosmic buddies and catches H'El sleeping unaware. And yet he still losses.

H'El stomps Thanos so hard that it tears a whole in reality. Then H'El goes back into the past and kills him again for good measure. Then uses his remains to create a servant copy of Thanos.

H'El brutally stomps the overrated titan.

Thanos could do all of that with ease. H'el would get stomped by the Mad Titan, who has gone toe to toe with much tougher opponents.

He also has lost to those opponents. H'El had no equal. He possesses greater TP and TK than any character out now.

I also don't see anyway Thanos can even touch someone he can't see or sense.

face it. he's done here.

I think Thanos would kill him in 2 punches... maybe even in 1.

+

Our disagreement aside, i admire the fact that this is by far the best presented case for He'l i have seen, and having read the story arc twice, the number of feats i missed were amazing.

Anyways i havent tried to correct him when he is replying to other, i have done so only when he replies to me, and with scans and detail let people see whose side is reasonable.

@killemall said:

@blazinghell said:

@killemall: I'm not overselling the bench pressing feat. I am warning you about it.

And why exactly are you warning me about it. Its also not the only time a character has shown a planetary level feat. Drax was ripping apart the very core of the star, small or otherwise, thats significantly better than a planetary level strength, who didnt fair any better against Thanos.

Magus was teleporting and destroyed 18 planets on his own power. Thor was cracking multiple planets as a side effect. Surfer has destroyed a planet and was affecting multiple planet in the vicinity, he also created a black hole because of his energy output.

All of whom Thanos has beaten, so i dont see how Superman's earth benching feat would be a be all and end all to suggest his or H'el superiority over Thanos when he has consistently beaten guys of the same Calibur.

Have you read War of Kings? Black Bolt voice was going to be used as a weapon in the story to destroy entire planet. Infinity # 4 we get to see Thanos vs Black Blot, who screamed at Thanos 4 times and Thanos beat the hell out of him.

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@blazinghell said:

@killemall: Still don't see how Thanos can contend with H'El on a speed basis

1. Because he has extremely impressive durability.

2. Because he can have his shield up effectively cutting off any attack.

And yes it does matter. A lot.

But we are moving out goal post here arent we? Our conversation started with Thanos couldnt teleport like He'l , cant matter manipulate like He'l and he had no answer to his versatility, now all you have got is speed.

Thanos has fought plenty of fast character before, he also has enchanced reflexes, he also has shield to prevent blitz, he has things stacked up for him.

The only person to have successfully blitz him would be Runner, one of marvel fastest character, with space gem, which gives unlimited speed.

How can Thanos hurt someone that can phase right through him?

So can Vision, and he didnt fair any better against Thanos during Avengers : Celestial Quest # 6, in fact issue # 7 shows Vision desperately trying to escape Thanos force bubble and failing.

How can he even beat him at all when H'El has demonstrated feats of possessing a higher degree of omniscience than most characters.

Just because he was able to read Supergirl's thought, so can Thanos, its no biggie.

H'El can read your thoughts wherever you are hiding.

Read Thanos's thought without his consent. Moondragon with mind gem tried here's what she has to say.

Also i have no idea why would Thanos be hiding though.

Chase you across time if he has to.

So can Thanos, whats your point?

Astrally appear at will and do whatever he wants to you. Thanos can't even sense him. Let alone fight him.

The only thing he can do in Astral self, to Thanos is try and TP him, many, many many have tried that and has never worked. The only exceptation of TP working against Thanos, without him wanting to came in Thanos Imperative, against a weakened Thanos, where 3 telepaths: Mantis, Moondragon and Cosmos, together held Thanos and simultaneously agreed he is growing progressively more powerful and they can no longer TP him.

Again i dont see a point apart from pretending Thanos has no counter to any of the abilities here.

@humannumber said:

@killemall:

Alright, I might have to read the issues cause i'm still skeptical and I don't know context, either way it seems to be that Thor is getting a lot of love in his solo series. Oh and I haven't read any of the infinity stuff but I've been planning too, Thanos is such a great villain and it'll be nice to see him smacking some fools around.

honestly i would totally recommend you do, as in both the series. Thor God of Thunder is awesome as is Infinity.

Infinity # 4 Thanos fights Black Bolt, who screams at him multiple times, even at point blank, Thanos takes it and beats the crap out of him.

1, Ripping apart a core isn't as impressive carrying the weigth of the planet, Teleportation isn't a factor, since both combatants have shown the ability. Although Thanos has yet to show the ability to teleport someone/thing.

2. Destroying a planet isn't the same as carrying the planets weigth, and that Thor busting stuff is false. Thanos isn't in H'el's strength class. Funny you brougth that BB vs Thanos scan, where in the third one, BB blocks a blow from Thanos and falls slightly to the ground. Thanos is outmatched in strength till he shows any strength feats of his own.

3.Funny, too BB is fighting Thanos and shows no where near planetary power.

4. Lets see at least admit Thanos is outmatched in speed, and his durability isn't anything to write home about. If he can bleed fro BB's voice then kryptonian punches will be just as if not more effective.

5. H'el has so more many advantages over Thanos it's not even funny. Speed, Strength, Durability, Matter control, Teleportation etc Not to mention the fact that Thanos can't even fly. SMH, this is no contest. H'el wins 10/10.

Moondragon not being able to read Thanos mind with the mind gem is PIS. Plus that looks like a classic scan so I won't bank on its credibility. CIN.

@bigcimmerian said:

Come one mate, just unnecessary to make those sort of claims okay? Tone it down please. Also knowing that you will be getting a warning isn't a good thing either, if you have the ability to recognize your insulting someone you probably also have the ability to be less antagonistic. Remember that for next time thanks.

Really? You know coz i recall the smallest known star being about 15 times the mass of the jupiter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OTS_44

And that bulk of Star's mass is on the core and it would take at the very least planetary strength to pull apart the very core of a object, which is at least 15 times the mass of the largest known planet on our solar system.

But i suppose to each his own.

That would be cool if it wasnt you or the other guy who brought up teleportation as an advantage for He'l , i didnt bring that up.

So.... what again?

Seriously, after showing you a scan of Thanos teleporting the champion away, and another scans of Thanos teleporting Spiderman, Captain Marvel , Adam Warlock and Pip the Troll to a differnet planet from Earth, wasnt enough to show Thanos has shown the ability to teleport something or someone?

Seriously have you read or seen any of the scans posted, or gone thru the argument?

And just for lolz, Thanos teleporting an entire house, or a replica of one to its rightful place.

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Because it takes more strength to lift a planet then to destroy it?

Ok then be kind enough to name me one thing that you can destroy with a hit, let alone side effect of you fighting anyone, but you cant lift it.

Couple of people together can lift, to some extent , a car provided they are strong enough. All of them punching a car together would certain not star cracking the car, let alone cracking them as a side effect of fighting someone else.

Again, to each his own.

I have no idea what you mean by Thor busting stuff is false.

The planets were busted as a side effect of the fight between Thor and Gorr, shown clearly on panel, mentioned clearly on panel.

How exactly is it "false" , pray tell..

You are welcome to keep deluding yourself with that, :)

To each his own.

Yes it really funny that i brought that up because BB isnt anywhere close to physically powerful enough to fight and defeat Hulk in 2 seperate occasions, fight Thor, fight Gladiator, fight and beat Spynx, heck ever who's who of marvel heavy hitters, but gets beating to near death with few blows from Thanos certainly does wonders to lowball Thanos.

And Black Bolt's scream isnt any impressive either, this totally didnt happen when he screamed at Vulcan.

Nor did this happen when Black Bolt screamed at Terrax who was owning the illumaniti few pages earlier.

But Thanos taking on Black Bolt screams, 4 in total, for near point black to actual point blank range and still continue to defeat him in a rather one sided encounter counters everything i have said about Thanos.

Correct?

Thats how we interpret things right...

Oh now we are creating our own rules awesome.

I mean you can totally show me He'l and not Superman actually lifting a planet can you?

Or He'l physically overpowering a guy who just mopped the floor with Silver Surfer, Nova Prime and Quasar together , even damanged helmet with all but a casual punch can you?

You can also show me something from He'l own strength feat that ranks up with Thanos destroying a planet as a side effect of an arm bar against Drax right?

Yep Thanos seem totally outmatched in strenght and Thanos has no strength feat of his own, while He'l is stacking up to neck with lifting planets and solar system....

Yes its really funny because Jonathan Hickman, in his earlier issue didnt show Black Bolt outright owing Terrax with a wisper, or we dont have a long history of feats from Black Bolt fight and beating the who is who is Marvel powerhouse.

Very funny indeed.

Never even disagreed that, but thats the only advantage He'l has. I even gave you a whole list of counter for that:

1. Thanos own enchanced reflex (not as fast as He'l no disagreement there)

2. Massive durability.

3. Energy shields.

Totally.

Tanking multiple screams from Black Bolt who can take out Hulk, Terrax and the likes with his scream point black doesnt show Thanos is durable.

Tanking multiple blast from Odin, who just a page prior outright KOed Drax with one blast, and Surfer with one blast in the next, not being able to actually put down Thanos for the count after having fought for entire issue doesnt shows Thanos durability is impressive.

Being able to tank a gas giant exploding without so much a scratch doesnt show his durability is impressive.

Being able to go toe to toe with Tyrant, who mopped the floor with 5 herald level character, twice, doesnt show his durability is impressive.

Surfer not being able to so much as hurt Thanos despite attacking him point blank doesnt show Thanos durability is impressive.

Guardians of Galaxy being stark helpless against him and having to KO a weakened Thanos with a cosmic cube and Thanos still managing to utter few words before being KOed isnt impressive either.

Going toe to toe with Beyonder, defeating her and tanking her blast , a sentinent cosmic cube being, against whom Gladiator was too scared to even confront, who was said to be omnipotent and capable of warping entire universe isnt impressive either.

Genis Vell finding himself totally unable to even harm Thanos isnt impressive either.

Of course, Thanos has no durabillity feats to "write him home" correct???

Because Black Bolt voice is sooooooooooooo unimpressive its not even funny right? I mean Unspoken who was defeating a group of 100 tonners didnt get outright defeated by Black Bolt, neither did Spynx who soloed FF + Avengers together.

I mean there is nothing impressive about Black Bolt, his durability or his screams.

Kryptonian punches are leagues and bounds beyond that.

After all their punches were totally going to be used as a weapon to destroy planets, or they have shown to tore apart giant tear in space and time ...

Lowballing only goes so far.

And thats not including Black Bolt scream did absolutely nothing to prevent him from getting beaten to near death, casually in a very one sided encounter.

Again.. to each his own.

Yes lets include the 5 differnet instances of Matter manipulation and teleportation posted, and pretend He;l trumps him there. Lets also ignore the massive barrage of his strenght and durability feat, and He'l is totally superior there.

I mean i showed you a set of scans once, then you complained OMG its classic, then i showed you current scans, i even showed a whole bunch of new scans to the other guy in the same thread, but you are happy to ignore that and pretend none of those exist :) Such is life.

Speed and only Speed is Thanos disadvantage.

As per Thanos not being able to fly. yes he cant, but he can walk on air, because of his own minor telekenesis and cosmic powers.

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But yeah if that shows He'l stomps Thanos 10/10 well what can i say.

Yes of course, the guy who himself is a massively powerful telepath, and who has never under normal circumstance been taken down by telepathy, its all PIS.

And you childish nitpicking about Classic scan is admirable attempt to ignore evidence but its not like Thanos and Moondragon didnt fight in more current times.

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It kinda feels like everything I and others are saying are being ignored or quickly glanced over. I'm not the type to accuse others of trolling so I'll assume he has a very strong liking towards H'el and it may take a while for our points to reach him.