#1 Posted by Fire_Ant (145 posts) - - Show Bio

Contest of the super soldiers: Can Shinra's best stand up to the Bio-Booster Armor of the Chronos Corporation? Cloud has had his mind taken over by Shinra who want to get their hands on the Guyver Unit. The city street is populated at the start of the fight. Cloud is bloodlusted, and Sho has morals on, so no uber mega attacks until the crowd is dispersed, or they take the fight elsewhere. How does this one go?

#2 Posted by Racob7 (5891 posts) - - Show Bio

Cloud if morals are on. If they were off, though, Sho would curbstomp.

#3 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

I've only seen the movies (which actually weren't that bad...despite some poor acting in the first one and some bad costumes), and the anime.

Obviously I'd side with Cloud, but then again my fanboyism when it comes to Final Fantasy 7 is...well....lets not get into that.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#4 Edited by TifaLockhart (14079 posts) - - Show Bio

I only saw the movie as well.

#5 Posted by Hyperlight (6174 posts) - - Show Bio

im leaning towards cloud

#6 Edited by saiyan_earthling (5456 posts) - - Show Bio

Guyver

#7 Edited by Fire_Ant (145 posts) - - Show Bio

Any suggestions on how well they can dodge or tank each other's attacks? Cloud doesn't seem to "dodgy" so I'm wondering what Guyver's energy beams would do. I'm also wondering how well Guyver can handle wide range magic attacks. I do feel like Guyver has the speed advantage in melee, and I don't believe Clouds skin can stop the high frequency blades. Maybe he has materia that will shield him? I dunno.

#8 Edited by OverLordArhas (7793 posts) - - Show Bio

@fire_ant said:

Any suggestions on how well they can dodge or tank each other's attacks? Cloud doesn't seem to "dodgy" so I'm wondering what Guyver's energy beams would do. I'm also wondering how well Guyver can handle wide range magic attacks. I do feel like Guyver has the speed advantage in melee, and I don't believe Clouds skin can stop the high frequency blades. Maybe he has materia that will shield him? I dunno.

Does not need to dodge, one Knights of the Round and it's all over. Watch "Last Order" and "Advent Children" to see how SOLDIER 1st Class Fight.

#9 Posted by Fire_Ant (145 posts) - - Show Bio

@overlordarhas: I've seen Advent Children, not the other. Guyver's pretty brutal with the hth. I'm pretty sure that if he got inside the reach of Cloud's blade, he'd be able to mess him up. Is his skin superhumanly invulnerable? I've also seen Guyver do some city-leveling energy blasts. Can Cloud withstand that sort of thing?

#10 Posted by OverLordArhas (7793 posts) - - Show Bio

@fire_ant said:

@overlordarhas: I've seen Advent Children, not the other. Guyver's pretty brutal with the hth. I'm pretty sure that if he got inside the reach of Cloud's blade, he'd be able to mess him up. Is his skin superhumanly invulnerable? I've also seen Guyver do some city-leveling energy blasts. Can Cloud withstand that sort of thing?

Fair enough, lets us do away with KOTR, He could summon BAHAMUT. How can he answer that?

Plus, status effect magic materia will be a problem for him.

#11 Edited by HereComesTheBoom_Headshot (321 posts) - - Show Bio

I may be the only who says that Guyver could pull off some major pwnage in the form of energy attacks that Cloud is mostly incapable of tanking, and would more than likely evade as apparent in Advent Children. I am also unconvinced that many of Cloud's attacks would even phase Guyver due to how durable the armor is. HOWEVER, although I am genuinely siding with Guyver, evidence that suggests Cloud could survive his energy attacks, specifically Mega-Smasher, would be helpful. Also, giving Guyver the Gigantic armor, or the Gigantic Exceed armor, and it's all over.

#12 Posted by Bossmonster (2259 posts) - - Show Bio

@overlordarhas: I think Guyvers answer would be more of the same. The character on display is FF7 clould. But because it's an RPG, he could or could not have a random range of powers. Personally, wish that the OP would specify what Cloud is wearing so that we know.@fire_ant: Can you help with that? It would make this more debatable.

As far as Guyvers answers, he has limited control over gravity giving him flight and a warp cannon. His Joint blades are supposed to be able to vibrate though any object. I think Guyver would take this really easy if he closes the gap.

Cloud has a good chance from distance and through summons. But Close range, he doesn't seem to have any defense from Guyver's attacks.

#13 Edited by Fire_Ant (145 posts) - - Show Bio

@overlordarhas: Bahamut huh? Mega smasher might hurt him, but.. I dunno, he might be able to take it.

@bossmonster: Well, I was thinking end of game Cloud, But I do suppose that can mean a number of things... How about this; How could he win? How would you stat him out if Guyver were a boss? Also, I agree, about the melee, Clouds only chance seems to be keeping him at a distance with magic.

#14 Edited by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

Energy attacks aren't very useful against Cloud, and he's incredibly resistant to physical attacks.

Cloud flew through an attack that was capable of immolating a city block, and shattering steel towers.

Bullets deflect off of his skull, and he's been thrown through several feet of steel without injury.

He has flight, can react to hypersonic attacks effortlessly, and he can cut down entire buildings with a swing of his sword. He can create huge gusts of wind that can throw people several dozen meters, he can project beam attacks from his sword, create a fan attack that rips through steel, and blocking his attack was enough to leave a crater beneath his blocker's feet.

He was able to throw someone through several floors of steel and concrete from a standing position and with minimal force.

His most powerful attacks can affect someone's very soul, and he has two lifetimes worth of training within his memories, one of which from one of (if not the most) the most skilled fighters in the FF7 universe. He can cut through any substance with one of his attacks, and can stun/paralyze an opponent with another.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#15 Posted by Sovereign91001 (4669 posts) - - Show Bio

Guyver's sonic buster, and sonic blades are too much for Cloud and can both one shot him, the gravity cannon only makes this worse. Guyver's durability plus insane regenrative healing factor should allow him to take anything Cloud can dish at him, Cloud's only real hope is to take Sho's head off. If Sho can access Gigantic forget about it.

Sho wins 8/10

W/Gigantic 9.5/10

W/Gigantic Exceed 10/10

#16 Posted by Bossmonster (2259 posts) - - Show Bio

@fire_ant: Dude, that's just a really tough question. I'll say right now, Guyver is way faster. I think Cloud could do it, sure. But he can't even afford to take a single hit from those Joint Blades. Too much Damage. He can't clash Swords with him either. That's why I don't see this going his favor. Many of Guyvers attack would kill him near instantly.

Also, remember that if the control metal is not destroy, Guyver has outrageous regenerative powers. In one eps, it resort Sho's body completely from nothing.

Truthfully, I think it's possible because of the Broken things you could do, like Linking Matria to cast magic's several times without stopping and things like pheniox - last to bring him back should he die. So, it would likely be the same way you would beat one of the more powerful weapons like Ruby or Emerald.

#17 Posted by Bossmonster (2259 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay: Could can't fly. He falls with a crap ton of style, but he can't fly. Think about FF7 AC, when he caught himself with the swords while the building was falling. If he had flight, he wouldn't not have needed that, or the help of the others to reach the sin bahmut.

#18 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay: Could can't fly. He falls with a crap ton of style, but he can't fly. Think about FF7 AC, when he caught himself with the swords while the building was falling. If he had flight, he wouldn't not have needed that, or the help of the others to reach the sin bahmut.

Not necessarily. Maybe his flight just isn't powerful enough to support the weight of his attacks.

Levitation

SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content.


This is supported by the way Cloud can "Hang" in the air during his battles in Advent Children, and the way he can maneuver his body whilst in the air as well. He may not be able to Fly on par with Sephiroth, but yes, even in Advent Children, Cloud could maintain height without falling (as shown when Sephiroth threw him, summoned the darkness clouds, and then rushed him from the side).

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#19 Posted by Bossmonster (2259 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay: Hmm......

LOL. Nice. Well, I will just say it's still falling with style. I get what you are saying and I've never seen that link before.

#20 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

@bossmonster:

I've played a lot of Final Fantasy 7. Cloud survived being stabbed through the heart on two separate occasions, as well as being stabbed through his body in a myriad of other locations.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/off-topic-5/respect-final-fantasy-7-747793/

His durability is not to be laughed at either. Bullet proof, withstood attacks that shatter trees without any injury. Been thrown through buildings, etc.

Plus he can bust out Climhazzard and Cross Slash to stun or cut through Guyver. Or just Omni-Slash v.6 and hack his soul to pieces.

Or he can just cut through the Guyver. His regular attacks can cut through several meters of steel effortlessly, and the majority of these feats happened while he was affected by Geo-stigma, which weakened him and caused him pain...at all times.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#21 Edited by Bossmonster (2259 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay: Dude, I maintain that I think it's possible that Cloud do it, but just extremely unlikely.
Consider the nature of the way that they both Battle. Cloud has never encountered a vibro-Joint Blade. Should Guyver attack, he will likely think to defend like do normally does and The vibro-blade will slight through it. In a dual, Cloud is at an extremely large disadvantage similar to that of when fighting Sephiroth in that

A)Guyver is physically more powerful.

B)Complete flight

Also, Guyver, unlike any foe Cloud has fought, has near 360 degree vision. His head laser could be a kill if fired close range during should guyver grab him and it tracks with the orbs on his head.

You know, with that in mind, I change my position. I believe Cloud could win, but not with out extensive prep time. Otherwise, it's too big of a gap for him to over come in a random encounter.

#22 Edited by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

@bossmonster: Not convinced the vibro blade would slice through the Fushion Sword, in fact, I find that extremely unlikely. Sephiroth's attacks do this:

Yet they couldn't even dull Cloud's swords. And Sephiroth was several times more powerful when he fought Cloud the last time around.

And you forget, this is bloodlusted Cloud, what's going to stop him from unleashing his full force and Omni-Slashing through Guyver's soul? This attack bypass ALL defenses, Sephiroth couldn't even register the attack, or move his sword in the way to block it. That's no small feat.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#23 Posted by TifaLockhart (14079 posts) - - Show Bio

Cloud is dodger in AC than in gameplay. Also, he survived Bahamut Sin's energy blast and his sword is ridiculously durable. I'm not saying if he wins or not cause I don't know.

#24 Edited by Bossmonster (2259 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay: I've seen that video. You can I can surely agree that Cloud was never in any real danger from Sephiroth. I will be the first to say it was PIS/CIS. But think about it. If strikes like that in FF7 AC complete Cloud would have been toast. There are at least 3 times where it could have happened. Most notable when he stabbed him in the shoulder and not his face, head or neck and decided to talk to him more.

My point in all this is, Sephiroth has never shown himself to be serious against Cloud. By all rights, he should murder Cloud with little trouble.

For that very reason, I believe the exact opposite of what you do. That is why I know the Vibro Blades would cut through clouds sword. Sephiroth seems to will his attacks stronger as evident of your video. The vibro blades are at a constant state. More over, should somehow some what, could manage to defend, the massive shock wave will do damage to his hands and he has two to worry about it.

Also, more PIS on omni-slash hitting in the game was a sure thing because it was the game. In AC it was complete PIS. Roth hung there an watch the blades instead of flying away or even trying to defend the first strike from Cloud. So to me, PIS is why it won't hit him.

Also, let us not forget that Sho can selectively control gravity and has the mega smasher.

Also, here is a thought about destroying souls. Like I said, Sho's body was completely destroyed once. It is unknown what effect this had on his soul. But the control metal has been shown to bring back sho's body. And to that extent, restore his soul. (Only logical right, if the soul stays in then body and the body is destroyed) So, can it be suggested that the control metal can regen souls???
Lastly, the control metal will fight for itself. Should sho stop die but the suit not be completely destroy, the Guyver will fight on it's on while it restores him.

#25 Edited by Fire_Ant (145 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay: Do they bother explaining why Cloud can take that kind of damage? He's only a super soldier in memory, so I doubt it's scientific in origin, do they just grow tougher over there? Is he made of magic to a degree, has an energy shield? Please don't shoot my head off FF fans, but the omni-slash honestly seems a lot more flashy than functional. Sure, soul damage is about the only thing that I'm guessing the Guyver unit can't heal, but the attack is a repetition of straight line charges that isn't really even that fast. It should be exceedingly easy for a skilled fighter to dodge and counter attack. I'm guessing the only reason that Seph didn't seem to put up a defense was that he was already beaten down. Can I see a scan of Cloud tanking a city busting energy attack as was mentioned? I feel like Guyver has it in melee. I'll give Cloud resurrections, and if he links materia to constantly cast wide range attacks, he can definitely keep Guyver on the ropes, but, can he deal with gravity attacks or the mega-smasher?

#26 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

@bossmonster:

Sephiroth goes easy on Cloud because he wants to prolong Cloud's suffering. It's the only character he does it with too. That being said, when Sephiroth did get serious, Cloud was still able to survive and fend off Sephiroth long enough to pull Omni-slash v.6 out when he couldn't hold back anymore.

And again, Cloud's cutting feats MATCH Sephiroth's cutting feats across the board.

Cannon ending to Final Fantasy 7 is Cloud killing Sephiroth with Omni-slash, as was proven in the FF7 novel The Maiden Who Travels the Planet.

Cloud vs. Sephiroth - In the lifestream

Because they are in a metaphysical plane of existence, it's only fair to assume they are physically equals, and that this is a contest of skill over stats.

0:55-1:10 - Sephiroth rips cloud to something similar to the astral plane, known as the lifestream

2:10-2:50 - Cloud owns the crap out of Sephiroth with omni-slash. a 15 strike combo

2:55-3:00 - Sephiroth is bleeding from several locations, confirming omni-slash, and his soul explodes into pieces (though he's not dead)

3:30-4:00 - Cloud exists within the lifestream, and pulls himself out and back to reality

4:10-4:40 - Holds himself and Tifa up with one hand, no signs of strain really

Cloud vs. Sephiroth continued:

The Maiden who Travels the Planet

Chapter 7

But only Cloud knew about his retreat. Having been exposed to Jenova's cells, there were traces of Sephiroth's conscious in him - Part of his conscious resonated with it. Cloud could feel the existence of his remnant somewhere inside the Lifestream, continuing to obstruct Holy even now.

Letting only his conscious enter the Sea of Mako, Cloud went in pursuit of him. Riding through the currents, his old enemy was waiting for him. Sephiroth's soul was not yet destroyed and was still a threat to the Planet.

In the world of conscious energy, their swords clashed with each other as they confronted. Sephiroth, the strongest Soldier and the most admired person, tore his long sword across Cloud like a beam of light. But Cloud wasn't afraid. Believing that he had won, Sephiroth raised his long sword for his next strike and at that instant, Cloud struck out at him unleashing all the strength he had. His large blade slashed into Sephiroth's body during that brief opening. His attack opened up another opportunity for him as he struck out at Sephiroth again. It was an unstoppable storm of slashes - fifteen unavoidable attacks one after the other, cut through Sephiroth.

The mad apostate angel smiled boldly. But the damage he had taken was far beyond what he could endure and his spiritual body started to fall apart as he laughed. Beams of light blasted out from inside his body as if they were cutting him apart. Sephiroth was destroyed. Cloud's nightmare that had been continuing since five years ago in Nibelheim finally came to an end.

The Holy that was no longer obstructed immediately came into action.

This time, Cloud had separated from his body and was now in an absentminded state but, in the abyss of the Mako world, he saw a hand there to guide him. It was white and delicate - it reminded him of the hand that gave him a flower in Midgar. Unconsciously, he stretched out his hand...

His conscious returned to his body. Tifa’s hand grasped his as the ground below him collapsed away.

Summary:

Cloud displays the following:

  • The ability to separate his own consciousness from his body, and exist in an astral state (the lifestream is like the astral plane)
  • Takes a blow from Sephiroth, and then proceeds to a 15 strike attack and rips Sephiroth's spiritual body into pieces.
  • Though guidance was needed, pulled himself back into his body.
  • Not stated, but definitely there: kept his consciousness separate from the lifestream, a collective of billions of minds and souls.

Advent Children

Sephiroth doesn't just "Watch" it happening, you can clearly see Sephiroth moving while Cloud zips past him, he's just moving in extreme slow motion. Which means Cloud is moving way beyond speeds Sephiroth is capable of, which is saying a lot.

Cloud vs. Sephiroth, Advent Children Complete

0:40-0:50 - Notice the crater Cloud creates when someone BLOCKS his attack

2:25-2:40 - Keeps up with Sephiroth pretty well, gets thrown through a steel structure, no signs of injury

2:42-3:10 - Fight in the dark, does pretty dang well

3:11-3:20 - Shoves Sephiroth through several floors of this steel/concrete structure

3:30-3:35 - Limit Break: Braver, rips through the steel in the structure

3:35-3:55 - Not only leaps a hundred meters or more, keeps up with Sephiroth, and slices through a huge steel structure with zero issue while in midtravel

4:10-4:40 - Cuts through several pieces of steel and concrete, and then blocks an ambush from Sephiroth

4:41-5:10 - Fights Sephiroth, even while the platform his is on keeps turning, then cuts through a pieces of steel and concrete that looks about 4 meters thick and about 20 meters wide

5:15-5:40 - Dodges an attack by Sephiroth, then dodges, and block several more attacks. Gets thrown through a steel wall and emerges pretty unharmed.

5:40-6:05 - Emerges from the wreckage pretty unhurt, and ready for a limit. Comes in and throws out some pretty fast attacks, and then gets impaled in the chest.

6:10-6:35 - Gets launched twenty meters in the air, then gets stabbed through the arms, chest, legs, foot, and hand, and then thrown back into the structure below, and bleeds half to death.

7:45-8:55 - Cloud's greatest Limit Break, Omnislash version 6. Thirteen unblockable attacks right at someone's life force. Strikes so fast not even Sephiroth can react to them. That's really really fast.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#27 Edited by TifaLockhart (14079 posts) - - Show Bio

Sephiroth was undamaged prior to omnislash version six. Also, cloud did tank Bahamut sin's energy blast meant to level the city.

#28 Edited by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

@fire_ant said:

@floopay: Do they bother explaining why Cloud can take that kind of damage? He's only a super soldier in memory, so I doubt it's scientific in origin, do they just grow tougher over there? Is he made of magic to a degree, has an energy shield? Please don't shoot my head off FF fans, but the omni-slash honestly seems a lot more flashy than functional. Sure, soul damage is about the only thing that I'm guessing the Guyver unit can't heal, but the attack is a repetition of straight line charges that isn't really even that fast. It should be exceedingly easy for a skilled fighter to dodge and counter attack. I'm guessing the only reason that Seph didn't seem to put up a defense was that he was already beaten down. Can I see a scan of Cloud tanking a city busting energy attack as was mentioned? I feel like Guyver has it in melee. I'll give Cloud resurrections, and if he links materia to constantly cast wide range attacks, he can definitely keep Guyver on the ropes, but, can he take deal with gravity attack or the mega-smasher?

It's his durability. And he's not the only one who can take that level of damage. SOLDIER are enhanced with Mako energy to make them stronger. Cloud is enhanced beyond those levels because of the Jenova Cells in his body mimiced Zack's memories, but enhanced his body to levels that near Sephiroth.

Also pay attention to the video, Sephiroth who was near hypersonic in feats, all of a sudden moves in slow motion, which means all scenes of him moving are in slow motion, and he is still a blur. He moves through matter, so there is no blocking it. And it's not just a straight line attack, he constantly shifts position to the appropriate sword to take Sephiroth the most off guard for the first few strikes, and charges in too fast for Seph to counter.

Here's another SOLDIER who isn't enhanced to Cloud's level who can sustain nearly the same amount of damage Cloud can.

Zack Fair

0:40-1:45 - That is a lot of people....

4:40-5:00 - Those are the last remaining soldiers

7:25-10:30 - Not only is the guy riddled with bullet holes in his chest, arms, and even bleeding from the top of his skull, but he's still talking, and he is still able to lift that Buster Sword with one arm! He doesn't survive this incident, but pretty impressive.

The cannon ending is that he kills all but the last remaining Soldiers that walk away. So he takes on a small armies worth of people head on.

Overview

Brief description on SOLDIER and etc.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#29 Posted by TifaLockhart (14079 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh, and to answer your question, Cloud got his powers through injection with alien cells. His body reacted where others didn't as much.

#30 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh, and to answer your question, Cloud got his powers through injection with alien cells. His body reacted where others didn't as much.

His is the only success body to accept the cells and maintain some sense of individuality.

The only other person to take in the cells and not turn into a mindless drone that Sephiroth could control to his whim was Zack, because his previous SOLDIER enhancements had fought off the alien cells like a disease.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#31 Edited by Fire_Ant (145 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay: The first video isn't very helpful. For the second time, I see Cloud attacking Sephiroth and Sephiroth making absolutely zero attempt at defending himself. Kinda' makes Sephiroth look like he's all hype. The novel recounting at least says that he fought back, and while the second video is a much cooler fight than I remember, it makes me think that Guyver's blades would be able to pierce Cloud's skin. I will admit that it looks like it could go either way, and the votes in this thread seem to support that.