#1 Posted by ThatGuyWithHeadPhones (11486 posts) - - Show Bio

The Black swordsman vs The Amazing Spiderman

Round 1

Win By K.O

In Character

Guts: Lost Children Arc Armor

Spiderman: Standard

New York

Round 2

Win By Death

Blood Lusted

Dark Forest

Gut; Berserker Armor

Spiderman:Iron Spider

#2 Posted by saiyan_earthling (5456 posts) - - Show Bio

Berserker Armor>Spider-Man

#3 Posted by Blackice709 (704 posts) - - Show Bio

GATZ ALL THE WAY

#4 Posted by NeonGameWave (7950 posts) - - Show Bio

Guts wins both Rounds.

#5 Posted by alcoholbob (1192 posts) - - Show Bio

Guts

#6 Posted by sandiego008 (3283 posts) - - Show Bio

I see round 2 ... but not sure if I believe guts can win the majority of round 1.

#7 Posted by SpideyPresence (1906 posts) - - Show Bio

Guts loses round 1, and I'm not sure about round 2.

#8 Posted by Rumble Man (11118 posts) - - Show Bio

Spidey spanks his ass

#9 Posted by ThatGuyWithHeadPhones (11486 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man: Okay how

#10 Posted by Rumble Man (11118 posts) - - Show Bio

@ThatGuyWithHeadPhones: How sill guts deal with spider-sense?

that is the one thing that will make it hard for guts

#11 Posted by Smart_Dork_Dude (2641 posts) - - Show Bio

Guts

#12 Posted by ThatGuyWithHeadPhones (11486 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man: As Great as The Spider Sense is Spiderman has been tag by several people how are much slower than Guts and I would wager that Guts Combat Speed topples Spidermans

#13 Posted by Rumble Man (11118 posts) - - Show Bio

@ThatGuyWithHeadPhones: Yeah, since in his battles all his opponents close to him (with all demons like charging and stuff)

Spidey is a laserdodger, guts is a lightning tanker but w/o that sword guts is kaput

don't forget the webbing

this is probably what ya'll wanna see

#14 Posted by reikai (4327 posts) - - Show Bio

The spider sense is impressive, however it's still up to Spidey to recognize what the danger is. And Guts doesn't just have the Dragonslayer. He also has a repeating wrist-crossbow he can mount on his false hand, a pouch full of small black powder bombs, throwing knives, a dagger and the cannon in his left hand.

#15 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (18774 posts) - - Show Bio

@saiyan_earthling: @Blackice709: @NeonGameWave: @alcoholbob:

I don't think Guts is well equipped to deal with enemy of this type. Spiderman could just keep his distance, and keep trapping Guts in webs. Guts is very good against close range fighters like wolverine, but against this skillset, he's not doing so well..

#16 Posted by sandiego008 (3283 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai said:

The spider sense is impressive, however it's still up to Spidey to recognize what the danger is. And Guts doesn't just have the Dragonslayer. He also has a repeating wrist-crossbow he can mount on his false hand, a pouch full of small black powder bombs, throwing knives, a dagger and the cannon in his left hand.

Spiderman doesnt just have spider senses, he has webbing and wall crawling abilities both which would be very useful in this fighting location.

#17 Posted by reikai (4327 posts) - - Show Bio

Guts has fought against all types of adversaries. Including Ganishka who was hitting him with lightning and couldn't be hurt unless you struck his astral form with the Dragonslayer. Guts has dealt with all manner of Apostles, from those that crawl, to those that fly, to those that leap, and those that ram. Plus mermaids, trolls, ogres and other fiendish creatures.
 
A guy who can shoot webs? That's just par for the course with Guts.

#18 Posted by NeonGameWave (7950 posts) - - Show Bio

@PrinceAragorn1: Good points but Guts can cut the webs with the Dragonslayer, also if Guts uses the environment or surroundings to his advantage he could outmaneuver Spiderman. And I don`t think Spiderman can get through Guts` Berserker Armor and if Guts manages to strike Spiderman with his Dragonslayer sword it will do more than just physical damage.

#19 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (18774 posts) - - Show Bio

@NeonGameWave said:

@PrinceAragorn1: Good points but Guts can cut the webs with the Dragonslayer, also if Guts uses the environment or surroundings to his advantage he could outmaneuver Spiderman. And I don`t think Spiderman can get through Guts` Berserker Armor and if Guts manages to strike Spiderman with his Dragonslayer sword it will do more than just physical damage.

Size of Dragon slayer seems like a disadvantage to me here. Because unlike small swords like killer bees/serpico's, it relies more on power of swing than numbers. Guts has a very good chance to win in close range, but as I said, if spiderman keeps decreasing his mobility by spider webs, he will eventually be overwhelmed.

#20 Posted by NeonGameWave (7950 posts) - - Show Bio

@PrinceAragorn1: That is true but Guts is pretty fast in regards to overall speed and is a great tactician. Also he uses more brute force than Spiderman, and he has experience in regards to traversing a forest so if Spiderman decides to use his webs from long range and try to immobilize him he could hide behind a tree as well as plot his next move or could even cut down the trees which would lessen Spiderman`s chances of having the element of surprise within Round 2. Spiderman however should win Round 1 due to having more knowledge of the surroundings.

#21 Posted by reikai (4327 posts) - - Show Bio

Guts can swing it one-handed when he needs to and can shatter pillars with it to complete a full swing. All of Spidey's swinging may not be a good idea since Guts can time the fuses on his bombs and toss them into Spidey's path mid-swing. They won't do much damage to Spidey, but they will put him off balance and disorient him.
 
Guts has also been shown to deflect away attacks with nothing more than the wind pressure created from swinging his sword.

#22 Edited by saiyan_earthling (5456 posts) - - Show Bio

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

@saiyan_earthling: @Blackice709: @NeonGameWave: @alcoholbob:

I don't think Guts is well equipped to deal with enemy of this type. Spiderman could just keep his distance, and keep trapping Guts in webs. Guts is very good against close range fighters like wolverine, but against this skillset, he's not doing so well..

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

@NeonGameWave said:

@PrinceAragorn1: Good points but Guts can cut the webs with the Dragonslayer, also if Guts uses the environment or surroundings to his advantage he could outmaneuver Spiderman. And I don`t think Spiderman can get through Guts` Berserker Armor and if Guts manages to strike Spiderman with his Dragonslayer sword it will do more than just physical damage.

Size of Dragon slayer seems like a disadvantage to me here. Because unlike small swords like killer bees/serpico's, it relies more on power of swing than numbers. Guts has a very good chance to win in close range, but as I said, if spiderman keeps decreasing his mobility by spider webs, he will eventually be overwhelmed.

Guts has not only been fighting monsters and ghosts, but he's even been chased by them too. He doesn't just have his sword, he still has his crossbow, and more importantly, his arm cannon to deal some damage, and he's a great tactician as NeonGameWave said.

Guts may seem human, but he can swing his sword very fast, and has an incredible amount of pain tolerance, to the point of stabbing his arm to break free when it got bitten by a monster, and not felling it.

And the Berserker Armor will only make things worse for Spider-Man, as Guts gets way stronger, faster, and will keep fighting until blood loss.

#23 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (18774 posts) - - Show Bio

@saiyan_earthling said:

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

@saiyan_earthling: @Blackice709: @NeonGameWave: @alcoholbob:

I don't think Guts is well equipped to deal with enemy of this type. Spiderman could just keep his distance, and keep trapping Guts in webs. Guts is very good against close range fighters like wolverine, but against this skillset, he's not doing so well..

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

@NeonGameWave said:

@PrinceAragorn1: Good points but Guts can cut the webs with the Dragonslayer, also if Guts uses the environment or surroundings to his advantage he could outmaneuver Spiderman. And I don`t think Spiderman can get through Guts` Berserker Armor and if Guts manages to strike Spiderman with his Dragonslayer sword it will do more than just physical damage.

Size of Dragon slayer seems like a disadvantage to me here. Because unlike small swords like killer bees/serpico's, it relies more on power of swing than numbers. Guts has a very good chance to win in close range, but as I said, if spiderman keeps decreasing his mobility by spider webs, he will eventually be overwhelmed.

Guts has not only been fighting monsters and ghosts, but he's even been chased by them too. He doesn't just have his sword, he still has his crossbow, and more importantly, his arm cannon to deal some damage, and he's a great tactician as NeonGameWave said.

Guts may seem human, but he can swing his sword very fast, and has an incredible amount of pain tolerance, to the point of stabbing his arm to break free when it got bitten by a monster, and not felling it.

And the Berserker Armor will only make things worse for Spider-Man, as Guts gets way stronger, faster, and will keep fighting until blood loss.

If nothing else, I don't think anyone would dare question this. Even more than his strength and speed, spiderman will have problems with his pain tolerance. I don't know if he will stop swinging even if he's cut in half XD. I had forgotten about the crossbow though, thanks to the 'speed' at which the chapters are berserk are coming out.

#24 Posted by sandiego008 (3283 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not sure anyone is arguing round 2 ... it is round 1 that is in question thus far.

#25 Posted by reikai (4327 posts) - - Show Bio

Guts has incredible stamina. He can run for several days with not more than 2hrs of rest. And when you're wearing about 100lbs of armor and a sword that easily weighs that much itself, plus supplies and other equipment, well he's carrying as much as group of Marines and going farther, harder.
 
By the 2nd novel he was already swinging faster than the human eye could follow to deflect attacks from a psuedo-apostle. Guts has been stabbed, slashes, burned, run through, smashed through trees, hammered into pillars, set on fire, poisoned, broken every bone in his body multiple times and lost enough blood to paint Russia red. And he Still. Keeps. Going.
 
The Berserker Armor when active will nullify his pain and push his body to its maximum limits. Explained in some martial arts, but people only use roughly 30% of their bodies total strength. Their brains and senses work to keep this true in order so that they don't ruin their own bodies. The Berserker Armor forces you to use 100% of your abilities, eliminating pain and thus releasing the limits on the human body to perform superhuman feats.
 
You put that armor on someone who's already considered super-human, and he becomes an absolute beast. If uncontrolled, Guts will fight until he's dead, and the armor will pierce his flesh and bones to keep him fighting for as long as possible. Knitting his bones back in place, fixing his limbs and holding his body together until there's not a drop of blood left in him. It took them three days to remove the armor after the first time he used it because it was biting into his flesh, requiring constant healing and care and restraints to hold him down.

#26 Posted by ThatGuyWithHeadPhones (11486 posts) - - Show Bio

@sandiego008: Well The question is does spider man have enough striking power to Knock Gutts out,I mean yea he could jump around and dodge him, he could web him, but I'm pretty sure he could dodge them, but can he knock him out because Gutts is known for taking a hit That man he been stomp on(without armor) by a fucking giant of a man.

#27 Posted by reikai (4327 posts) - - Show Bio

Guts was tossed through trees by Wyald without armor on and was Ko'd for about a minute. And that was before the Eclipse when Guts hadn't even reached his peak yet. That was also after he fought Wyald bitterly and just barely pulled off a win. Guts was being bandaged up when Wyald got back up and hammered Guts through some trees. Wyald was still dying, but was trying to fight Griffith so he could use the Crimson Behelit to summon the Godhand,

#28 Edited by SpideyPresence (1906 posts) - - Show Bio

@ThatGuyWithHeadPhones said:

@sandiego008: Well The question is does spider man have enough striking power to Knock Gutts out,I mean yea he could jump around and dodge him, he could web him, but I'm pretty sure he could dodge them, but can he knock him out because Gutts is known for taking a hit That man he been stomp on(without armor) by a fucking giant of a man.

One punch from Pete would take Guts' head straight off of his neck without the berserker armor. A serious Pete is a 10 - 15 tonner. Guts is a great character but he doesn't have this kind of durability.

#29 Posted by reikai (4327 posts) - - Show Bio

Guts blocked a shot from a cannon with just his sword and no armor.

#30 Posted by SpideyPresence (1906 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai said:

Guts blocked a shot from a cannon with just his sword and no armor.

That doesn't really show how he'll tank a clean punch from Pete. Like the picture shown above, Pete could rip his arms off.

#31 Edited by SlimJ87D (10292 posts) - - Show Bio

Guts will lose round 1. Spider-man's webbing will subdue him. Gut's is only good at cutting and blocking projectiles, but he's never been shown to deal with extreme amounts of webbing like Peter can dish out.

Even with all of Gut's strength, I don't think he can get out of Peter's webbing.

@SpideyPresence said:

@reikai said:

Guts blocked a shot from a cannon with just his sword and no armor.

That doesn't really show how he'll tank a clean punch from Pete. Like the picture shown above, Pete could rip his arms off.

A "clean shot." But who says Peter gets a clean shot when Guts swings his sword dozens of times in a second. He's much faster than Peter, he's capable of swinging a giant sword so fast that you can't see the giant piece of metal go from point A to point B.

#32 Posted by reikai (4327 posts) - - Show Bio

Do you know how much pressure a cannon can put out? A cannon can blow a person to pieces. The pressure of the blast can reach around 100g's, which is instantly fatal to people. Guts blocked this at close range with his sword, and it tossed him back. He had to withstand the force of it without armor. And how hard do you think a human body needs to be thrown to break through the trunk of a tree? Because that's how hard Guts has been thrown before.
 
If Pete is dumb enough to get within striking range of Guts, he'll be killed.

#33 Posted by New_World_Order (13277 posts) - - Show Bio

@saiyan_earthling said:

Berserker Armor>Spider-Man

#34 Posted by SlimJ87D (10292 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai: He's saying if Spider-man punched Guts in the face meaning he gets a "clean" shot. But I already rebuttal that Spider-man can't get a clean shot and that's the problem.

#35 Posted by reikai (4327 posts) - - Show Bio

Indeed. I'm just saying Guts is abnormally tough regardless of the armor. I do like how Jill described her vision of Guts though; "A Forest Ghost. That's what I first thought when I met him. He is...the man before me now, looks nothing so gentle as that!" or something along those lines.
  

#36 Posted by heroesgold (608 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1: Spidey

Round 2: Guts.

#37 Posted by sandiego008 (3283 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai: It isn't like spiderman hasn't faced fast opponents in the past.

In reality spiderman has faced damn near every type of opponent there is, fast, strong, smart, illusionist, H2H, projectile thrower, hell he has taken on the sinister six, a combo of all great things.

In round 1 w/o the beserk armor spidey will find a way to win that one IMO.

Not arguing round 2.

#38 Posted by SlimJ87D (10292 posts) - - Show Bio

@sandiego008: Spider-man has never fought anyone like Guts, that's truth.

#39 Posted by reikai (4327 posts) - - Show Bio

Peter has fought against crooks, super-villains and alien mercs. Never anyone with the sheer brutal fighting will of Guts. But it's like in the Amazing Spider-Man animated series, when Spidey, White Tiger and others are all in training with Cap America, and Cap takes them all because they keep following the same patterns and don't mix things up.
 
Guts adapts to each fight. Even when he's in a situation where he's at a disadvantage, which is every time Serpico fights him seriously. He's even adapted to unfamiliar weapons, like chakram and a whipsword. He goes against creatures bigger and stronger and, sometimes, faster than himself. And that's where both his skills in battle and instincts fit in.
 
Guts also knows how and When to take a punch, in order to deliver a killing blow. Like allowing Rosine to run him through with her stinger so he'd have the opportunity to get in close to use the canon on her. She thought she got him through the head afterwords. He turned just in time to get stabbed through his cheeks, and then bit down on her stinger so she couldn't remove it and then tore into her with the Dragonslayer.

#40 Posted by sandiego008 (3283 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai said:

Guts/spiderman adapts to each fight. Even when he's in a situation where he's at a disadvantage, which is every time Serpico fights him seriously. He's even adapted to unfamiliar weapons, like chakram and a whipsword. He goes against creatures bigger and stronger and, sometimes, faster than himself. And that's where both his skills in battle and instincts fit in.

Guts/spiderman also knows how and When to take a punch, in order to deliver a killing/k.o. blow.

Everything you said here of guts, spiderman has done as well. (The quote is edited)

#41 Posted by SpideyPresence (1906 posts) - - Show Bio

@SlimJ87D said:

A "clean shot." But who says Peter gets a clean shot when Guts swings his sword dozens of times in a second. He's much faster than Peter, he's capable of swinging a giant sword so fast that you can't see the giant piece of metal go from point A to point B.

Just because Guts can swing his sword fast doesn't mean he's faster than Peter at all. Spiderman has supersonic reaction speeds, he's dodged bullets after they've been fired, without spidersense. Guts will swing his sword and Spidey will probably just web it out of his hands. Spiderman is also far stronger than Guts. Like you said Guts won't be ready for the amount of webbing Spidey can dish out and if he slows down for a second and allows Spiderman to get a clean hit than the fight is over.

#42 Posted by reikai (4327 posts) - - Show Bio

If Peter tries to take it out of Guts' hands, he'll just bring Guts to himself, and Guts will skewer him. And if Peter makes himself believe that the sword is the biggest concern before rushing in, then he's setting himself up to be killed with a cannon blast in his chest. Guts never uses it at a range. He almost always fires it point-blank so there's no avoiding it.
 
And like I said, Guts can deflect objects and attacks with just the wind-pressure created by swinging his sword. Meaning the webbing won't even get him. If it's not blown aside by the wind pressure, it's being torn through by the blade itself. And that's before the Berserker armor.

#43 Posted by SlimJ87D (10292 posts) - - Show Bio

@SpideyPresence: I wrote down that Spider-man wins round 1 in my OP. But he's not winning by getting in close, only by webbing. Guts swings his sword faster than a bullet, so dodging bullets here from canon fodder is irrelevant. This is a sword 30 times the mass of a normal broadsword moving at super sonic speeds, not a tiny tip of a pinky sized object. No way is Spider-man going to simply run in and get a "clean" shot like you said.

2nd round Spider-man losses, Guts senses and speed only increase more with him gaining agility rivaling that of Spider-man in addition to being able to swing his sword in a very unorthodox fashion.

#44 Posted by SpideyPresence (1906 posts) - - Show Bio

@SlimJ87D said:

@SpideyPresence: I wrote down that Spider-man wins round 1 in my OP. But he's not winning by getting in close, only by webbing. Guts swings his sword faster than a bullet, so dodging bullets here from canon fodder is irrelevant. This is a sword 30 times the mass of a normal broadsword moving at super sonic speeds, not a tiny tip of a pinky sized object. No way is Spider-man going to simply run in and get a "clean" shot like you said.

2nd round Spider-man losses, Guts senses and speed only increase more with him gaining agility rivaling that of Spider-man in addition to being able to swing his sword in a very unorthodox fashion.

Any evidence of his sword moving at supersonic speeds like you said, I know Guts is fast but I find it hard to believe that Gut's swings his sword this fast and I'm caught up with Berserk. Can I get some manga panels?

#45 Posted by reikai (4327 posts) - - Show Bio

In the start, Guts had been moving it faster than the eye can follow. That was sub-sonic at the beginning of the series, and that was for defensive means. Against Rosine, an injured, bleeding, burned and worn out Guts, had to react and block against Rosine's super-sonic attacks (she was creating sonic booms while flying). I'd say she was going at least around Mach 1.5 to Mach 2. Not in the upper super sonic range, but enough that a Normal person would've been torn to pieces by her instantly.
 
To be perfectly honest, no one has seen Guts fight in his current state at 100% perfect health. He never gets enough rest or food, and he's constantly injured, and he hasn't recovered from Slan's attack that tore into his astral body. Even that month after the events at the Forest of the Spirit Tree, he still hadn't recovered from all his injuries, even with the healing powers or two Elves and Shierke's magic.
 
But essentially what people are saying is that, despite the swords massive size and weight, Guts has been able to at least move and react at super-sonic speed when in better health. And with the Berserker Armor active, he is several times stronger and faster. And despite injury, was able to react quickly enough to jab the Dragonslayer into the ground standing upright to act like a lightning rod against Ganishka's lightning attacks.

#46 Posted by ThatGuyWithHeadPhones (11486 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai: I'd just like to point out he Actually just recovered when Fantasia was create but his next open was under water lol but year every villian he has faced they never have never has gone against him at his full

Rosine - He had to fight 30+ Demons,

The Count- he had to go against the That other dude

The Five Angles He Was Literally fighting though hell and he was protecting Caska etc.

#47 Posted by ThatGuyWithHeadPhones (11486 posts) - - Show Bio

Off Topic Does Anyone Think Spiderman could beat the Foes Guts Face

#48 Posted by reikai (4327 posts) - - Show Bio

Probably a number of the Apostles if he's careful. Against guys like Zodd, Locus and some of the major players? No. Certainly not Ganishka since you couldn't hurt him without being able to affect an Astral being. And absolutely not the Godhand.