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#1 Posted by LightningGod67 (237 posts) - - Show Bio
Both gentlemen are equipped with their standard weaponry of combat. 
Cole can't use his psionic abilities.
No prep.
They fight on the streets of San Francisco. The city is unpopulated. It is morning. 
No morals.
Current versions of both men.
A fight to the death, this is.
Both combatants are 40 feet apart.
Who will be the last man standing in the midst of battle?












#2 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (6210 posts) - - Show Bio

Winter Soldier. Can punch through concrete. Better fighting skills (on a par with CA). Every bit the marksman Cole is in my opinion. Good fight though.
#3 Posted by LightningGod67 (237 posts) - - Show Bio
@Super_SoldierXII: hmmm thanks.
#4 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (6210 posts) - - Show Bio
@LightningGod67 said:


                    @Super_SoldierXII: hmmm thanks.

                   

               

Of course, given my pic and MO I'm probably a little biased here ... but still :)
#5 Posted by LightningGod67 (237 posts) - - Show Bio
@Super_SoldierXII: lol. :D
#6 Posted by RisingBean (3802 posts) - - Show Bio

Grifter was Coda trained. He might give a better fight then you'd think.

Also wasn't he supposed to be one of Images best marksmen?

 

You can't deny the advantage in having a cyborg arm though.

 

As with alot of fights where it could go either way, I am of the mind that it comes down to the chance circumstances that happen to arise.

#7 Posted by karrob (4279 posts) - - Show Bio

IMO winter soldier but I am prepared to be convinced otherwise.

#8 Posted by progenitor (7534 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd give it to the Buckster.
#9 Posted by SavageDragon (2248 posts) - - Show Bio

Id say Grifter. Bucky has great hand to hand combat but I still think Grifter is better with Guns and is closer to Bucky in hand to hand than people think. Its a very even fight, Grifter gets beat up Bucky gets shot, Grifter gets shot, They get in close Bucky is about to kill Cole then Grifter stabs him in the throat.

#10 Edited by joeagentofhand1 (4362 posts) - - Show Bio

Winter Soldier due to the fact this is New 52 Grifter who does have impressive Bucky has more though

#11 Posted by tg1982 (2715 posts) - - Show Bio

Winter Soldier, for reasons already stated, but I'llalso elaborate on the arm. It does more than just enhanced strength it dischages electric shocks can detach and he still maintains control of it as well so there is a bit of versitality.

#12 Posted by ThexX (1564 posts) - - Show Bio

Bucky Barnes (Winter Soldier) Wins

Bucky H2H

Against 50s Captain America:

50s Captain America has 2 ton strength. Bucky has commented that 50s Captain America is twice as strong, fast and durable as Steve. Bucky also commented that Steve is 3 times faster, stronger and durable as himself. This makes 50s cap 6 times all the stats of Bucky who is only peak human. No big deal, Bucky still kicks his ass.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/50s%20Cap/CaptainAmerica40Zone-Meganpg03.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/50s%20Cap/CaptainAmerica40Zone-Meganpg04.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/50s%20Cap/CaptainAmerica40Zone-Meganpg05.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/50s%20Cap/CaptainAmerica40Zone-Meganpg08.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/50s%20Cap/CaptainAmerica40Zone-Meganpg09.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/50s%20Cap/CaptainAmerica40Zone-Meganpg10.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/50s%20Cap/CaptainAmerica40Zone-Meganpg13.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/50s%20Cap/CaptainAmerica40Zone-Meganpg14.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/50s%20Cap/CaptainAmerica40Zone-Meganpg15.jpg

This time Bucky did not have a shield, only his arm. He still beats 50s Cap and then shoots him multiple times. We all know 50s Cap will be back again.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/50s%20Cap/CaptainAmerica605Shepherd-Meganpg06.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/50s%20Cap/CaptainAmerica605Shepherd-Meganpg10.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/50s%20Cap/CaptainAmerica605Shepherd-Meganpg11.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/50s%20Cap/CaptainAmerica605Shepherd-Meganpg15.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/50s%20Cap/CaptainAmerica605Shepherd-Meganpg16.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/50s%20Cap/CaptainAmerica605Shepherd-Meganpg17.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/50s%20Cap/CaptainAmerica605Shepherd-Meganpg18.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/50s%20Cap/CaptainAmerica605Shepherd-Meganpg20.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/50s%20Cap/CaptainAmerica605Shepherd-Meganpg21.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/50s%20Cap/CaptainAmerica605Shepherd-Meganpg22.jpg

Bucky's Marksman ship

After getting shot plus cracking a few ribs, falling out of a window and landing a few stories below, he shoots Crossbones multiple times. Shield reports later that NO INTERNAL ORGANS were hit.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Marksmanship/CA_36_DCP12.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Marksmanship/CA_36_DCP13.jpg

More taking out randoms:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Marksmanship/CaptainAmerica046Zone-Avengerpg23.jpg

Manages to fire single explosive round into an assault rifle while the guy is running with a gun tucked under his arm.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Marksmanship/WinterSoldier04014.jpg

Shoots Madame Masque in her mask.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Marksmanship/NewAvengers53MrShepherd-Meganpg21.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Marksmanship/NewAvengers53MrShepherd-Meganpg22.jpg

Shoots Daken in the back of the head while Wolverine and Daken are about to fight

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Marksmanship/Origins25-016.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Marksmanship/Origins25-017.jpg

#13 Posted by Buckshot (18914 posts) - - Show Bio

@joeagentofhand1 said:

Winter Soldier due to the fact this is New 52 Grifter who does have impressive Bucky has more though

Its not the new Grifter. Even if the thread weren't a year old, the picture is of Wildstorm's Grifter.

Moderator
#14 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
@Super_SoldierXII said:
Every bit the marksman Cole is in my opinion.
Old post, but no. Buck doesn't even come close to being equal to Grifter in marksmanship. 
 
And at 40 feet, Bucky is a dead man.
Moderator
#15 Posted by blackadamFTW (7867 posts) - - Show Bio

@Morpheus_ said:

@Super_SoldierXII said:
Every bit the marksman Cole is in my opinion.
Old post, but no. Buck doesn't even come close to being equal to Grifter in marksmanship.

And at 40 feet, Bucky is a dead man.
#16 Edited by joeagentofhand1 (4362 posts) - - Show Bio

@Buckshot: thank you I did not see the date, I am not so knowledgeable on Grifter PreNew 52, so I can't say

#17 Posted by Buckshot (18914 posts) - - Show Bio

@Morpheus_ said:

@Super_SoldierXII said:
Every bit the marksman Cole is in my opinion.
Old post, but no. Buck doesn't even come close to being equal to Grifter in marksmanship.

And at 40 feet, Bucky is a dead man.

I was going to respond to his post as well but I didn't feel like addressing something a year old.

Moderator
#18 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
@Buckshot: Super Soldier posts regularly, so we might get a debate out of it. And I know and like both characters so the opportunity was too good to pass up on.
Moderator
#19 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (6210 posts) - - Show Bio

@Morpheus_ said:

@Super_SoldierXII said:
Every bit the marksman Cole is in my opinion.
Old post, but no. Buck doesn't even come close to being equal to Grifter in marksmanship.

And at 40 feet, Bucky is a dead man.

I hadn't done much reading on Wildstorm or any of it's hot shots at the time. The Vine and all the chit chat on Nighter has since propelled me to correct myself. (Still feel Mr. Battlebrain is slightly overrated ... but not by much).

I have to agree with you at this point. Grifter is the better shot and has significantly better feats with firearms than Bucky. While Bucky has bullet timing feats galore (tossing his shield in time to deflect a bullet was an extraordinary exemplar of his ability to react), 40 feet worth of distance is a lot to cover while being in Grifter's crosshairs.

#20 Posted by Jayfournines (4024 posts) - - Show Bio

I go with Grifter, even if he doesn't have his mind whammy, he's a deadly marksman

#21 Posted by Rasarima (371 posts) - - Show Bio

Grifter maskman is the edge here.... he wins with a trick shot

#22 Posted by ThexX (1564 posts) - - Show Bio

I still say Bucky wins. I will also say Grifter is a better marksmen. But this is a battle where there is a lot of cover and Bucky is a highly trained Soldier/Spy/Assassin (Grifter is also a highly trained Soldier) so he isn't going to rush in like wolverine would. Bucky will take his time and use cover to advance on his opponent. (Bucky is also highly trained in stealth and ambush tactics. He was able to sneak up on Wolverine and almost kill him. But Bucky did have prep.) But another great example of stealth was he was able to stay undetected in a Subway system where both Agent Sharon Carter and Union Jack were investigating a lead on a possible terrorist attack. The point i am trying to make is that even though they start out at 40 feet Bucky would be able to close that distance without getting injured and then engage Grifter in Close Quarter Combat. Where Bucky is supieor at. Bucky has on a number of occasions beat opponents who have better physical stats he has beat Crossbones, 50's Captain America, & Batroc The Leaper in Close Quarter Combat (This could mean knife fights, H2H fights, and even close quarter gun battles)

#23 Posted by ThatThorFan (951 posts) - - Show Bio

Im going to say Bucky. Not that Grifter isn't good or anything but Winter Soldier has been trained by the best. His experience cant be topped.

#24 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32993 posts) - - Show Bio
@ThatThorFan said:

Im going to say Bucky. Not that Grifter isn't good or anything but Winter Soldier has been trained by the best. His experience cant be topped.

Grifter is Coda trained and if you know anything about Zealot that should tell you how good he is 
#25 Edited by ThexX (1564 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbat87: Just because your trained by somebody who is a badass doesn't make you a badass. Don't get me wrong Grifter is damn good it's just Bucky is better.

#26 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32993 posts) - - Show Bio
@ThexX said:

@spiderbat87: Just because your trained by somebody who is a badass doesn't make you a badass. Don't get me wrong Grifter is damn good it's just Bucky is better.

I was replying to ThatThorFans idea that Bucky wins because he was "trained by the best" when in fact Grifter has far better training 
#27 Posted by ThatThorFan (951 posts) - - Show Bio

@ThexX said:

@spiderbat87: Just because your trained by somebody who is a badass doesn't make you a badass. Don't get me wrong Grifter is damn good it's just Bucky is better.

#28 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32993 posts) - - Show Bio
@ThatThorFan: ..... did you not read your own post? You said Bucky was better because he was trained by the best yet Grifter was trained by better.
#29 Edited by ThatThorFan (951 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbat87: Yeah, Im using my Ipad and it always does some crazy stuff on this website. Captain America, Wolverine, Ant Man (intellectual side), Iron Man, and much more trained Winter Soldier at one point. I want to throw in Daredevil because there was a brief time when he taught him how to not rely on his eyes but Im not sure if that was WS. With that being said, all of those heroes put into one is a kickass fighter.

#30 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32993 posts) - - Show Bio
@ThatThorFan said:

@spiderbat87: Yeah, Im using my Ipad and it always does some crazy stuff on this website. Captain America, Wolverine, Ant Man (intellectual side), Iron Man, and much more trained Winter Soldier at one point. I want to throw in Daredevil because there was a brief time when he taught him how to not rely on his eyes but Im not sure if that was WS. With that being said, all of those heroes but into one is a kickass fighter.

and Zealot could kill them all
#31 Posted by WaveMotionCannon (5334 posts) - - Show Bio

Grifter

#32 Posted by btmt (222 posts) - - Show Bio

GRIFTER wins, that's all.

#33 Edited by ThexX (1564 posts) - - Show Bio

@btmt: You do know this is current Grifter not windstorm Grifter and he has no psionic powers in this fight. That is what the OP stated.

#34 Posted by Buckshot (18914 posts) - - Show Bio

@ThexX said:

@btmt: You do know this is current Grifter not windstorm Grifter and he has no psionic powers in this fight. That is what the OP stated.

OP stated that a year ago so I'm pretty sure "current" was still Wildstorm's Grifter. That in addition to the image being of Wildstorm's Grifter.

Moderator
#35 Posted by ThexX (1564 posts) - - Show Bio

@Buckshot: Sorry just noticed that. I was trying to be a Smart @$$ and now I look like a idiot. Sorry again. But I still think Bucky wins. Unless somebody can proved scans of Grifter Marksman ship that everybody is talking about.

#36 Posted by Strider92 (16238 posts) - - Show Bio

Doesn't Grifter have psionics? Or am I missing something?

#37 Posted by btmt (222 posts) - - Show Bio

@ThexX said:

@btmt: You do know this is current Grifter not windstorm Grifter and he has no psionic powers in this fight. That is what the OP stated.

Sorry buddy I don't want to be rude here but if you have read all other past and recent GRIFTER issues then you can see that GRIFTER have fought more bigger and more powerful deamonites than him(GRIFTER) with or without is psionic powers in many different ways.

#38 Posted by Lady_Liberty (8279 posts) - - Show Bio

Maybe if they started closer together Bucky would have a better chance, as it is now Grifter just has to much time to shoot.

And he's a scary good shot.

#39 Posted by Saren (25553 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbat87 said:

@ThatThorFan said:

Im going to say Bucky. Not that Grifter isn't good or anything but Winter Soldier has been trained by the best. His experience cant be topped.

Grifter is Coda trained and if you know anything about Zealot that should tell you how good he is

There are a host of people trained by Zealot, most of them Coda assassins themselves, who have been one-shotted by people nowhere near as skilled as Zealot. Training under Zealot doesn't make Cole as skilled as she is.

Moderator
#40 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32993 posts) - - Show Bio
@CitizenBane said:

@spiderbat87 said:

@ThatThorFan said:

Im going to say Bucky. Not that Grifter isn't good or anything but Winter Soldier has been trained by the best. His experience cant be topped.

Grifter is Coda trained and if you know anything about Zealot that should tell you how good he is

There are a host of people trained by Zealot, most of them Coda assassins themselves, who have been one-shotted by people nowhere near as skilled as Zealot. Training under Zealot doesn't make Cole as skilled as she is.

I have already been through this a million time with the other guy, yes Grifter is not as good or even near as Zealot but the other guy was saying Bucky win because he had better training but that is false as Grifter has had better
#41 Posted by Remi (613 posts) - - Show Bio

Grifter.

#42 Posted by ThexX (1564 posts) - - Show Bio

People please realize that 40 feet apart means that are actually only about 13 yards apart (Do the Math). So this fight is Close Quarters Combat. And Bucky has better speed, strength, agility, and endurance. Bucky is also far better H2H combat fighter. And talking about Marksmen Ship here are some scans of Buckys Marksmen ship.

After getting shot plus cracking a few ribs, falling out of a window and landing a few stories below, he shoots Crossbones multiple times. Shield reports later that NO INTERNAL ORGANS were hit.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Marksmanship/CA_36_DCP12.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Marksmanship/CA_36_DCP13.jpg

More taking out randoms:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Marksmanship/CaptainAmerica046Zone-Avengerpg23.jpg

Manages to fire single explosive round into an assault rifle while the guy is running with a gun tucked under his arm.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Marksmanship/WinterSoldier04014.jpg

Shoots Madame Masque in her mask.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Marksmanship/NewAvengers53MrShepherd-Meganpg21.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Marksmanship/NewAvengers53MrShepherd-Meganpg22.jpg

Some other of Bucky Marksmen ship feats are in Captain America: Winter Soldier he is the one who shots and kill's The Red Skull from a unknown distance. Then in Captain America: Death of Captain America Bucky is able to shot the Back Propeller of a helicopter to disable it while beginning cared by The Falcon.

Remarkable feats here are Bucky’s ability to deflect Widows stingers with his arm. He could pretty much deflect bullets with his arm.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Black%20Widow/12.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Black%20Widow/13.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Black%20Widow/14.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Black%20Widow/15.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Black%20Widow/16.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Black%20Widow/17.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Black%20Widow/18.jpg

#43 Posted by Ferro Vida (34676 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd back Bucky.

#44 Posted by mtrakos (563 posts) - - Show Bio

KNUCK IF YOU BUCK!!!!

#45 Posted by Saren (25553 posts) - - Show Bio

Grifter.

Moderator
#46 Posted by Ferro Vida (34676 posts) - - Show Bio
@CitizenBane: Why do you think so?
#47 Posted by Saren (25553 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ferro Vida: I'll get some scans up in the morning. I need to crash now.

Moderator
#48 Posted by ThexX (1564 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane: Thanks I been asking to see some of Grifter scans. If you can please show some of his Marksmen Ship. Until then I still say Bucky wins.

#49 Posted by Ferro Vida (34676 posts) - - Show Bio
@CitizenBane: Take care.
#50 Posted by ImmortalOne (3368 posts) - - Show Bio

Grifter. Expert marksman, TK and TP, Coda training.