#1 Edited by jashro44 (27604 posts) - - Show Bio

Grendel VS The Shadow

Since this fight might be happening soon I figured it could be fun to speculate...

Rules

  • Morals are on
  • Standard gear
  • Win by KO/Death/Incapacitation
  • Random encounter
  • The shadow cannot use his hypnosis

Location

  • Fight takes place 30 feet apart
  • Begin visible
  • Fight takes place here:

Who wins and why?

#2 Posted by dondave (39089 posts) - - Show Bio

Gonna need some feats for Grendel

#3 Posted by jashro44 (27604 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

Gonna need some feats for Grendel

@nelomaxwell or @owie would be better to educate you, however he was able to hold his own with batman briefly (who compared his agility to nightwings I believe), and he killed 20 guys before any of them could react. He also fights and keeps pace with some were wolf which is super human.

#4 Posted by ImTheBat (59 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Leaning on Shadow. @indiecomicsftw to explain.

#5 Edited by IndieComicsFTW (3252 posts) - - Show Bio

@imthebat said:

@jashro44: Leaning on Shadow. @indiecomicsftw to explain.

I am not too familiar with Grendel. Who is he? A DC character? Is he fighting Dynamites Shadow?

If its Dynamites Shadow, I can debate it. No clue who Grendel is.

#6 Posted by jashro44 (27604 posts) - - Show Bio

@imthebat said:

@jashro44: Leaning on Shadow. @indiecomicsftw to explain.

I am not too familiar with Grendel. Who is he? A DC character? Is he fighting Dynamites Shadow?

If its Dynamites Shadow, I can debate it. No clue who Grendel is.

He is a dark horse character. And yea he will be fighting the current shadow (probably). There having a crossover.

#7 Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3252 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Dynamite and Darkhorse? Dynamite must be moving up in the comic world :)

#8 Posted by jashro44 (27604 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Dynamite and Darkhorse? Dynamite must be moving up in the comic world :)

Yea their also doing a red sonja vs conan crossover.

#9 Edited by IndieComicsFTW (3252 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@indiecomicsftw said:

@jashro44: Dynamite and Darkhorse? Dynamite must be moving up in the comic world :)

Yea their also doing a red sonja vs conan crossover.

Nice. I mean to check out their Xena Books. Hope to see Xena beat down Conan lol.

#10 Posted by jashro44 (27604 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@indiecomicsftw said:

@jashro44: Dynamite and Darkhorse? Dynamite must be moving up in the comic world :)

Yea their also doing a red sonja vs conan crossover.

Nice. I mean to check out their Xena Books. Hope to see Xena beat down Conan lol.

You don't like Conan?

#11 Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3252 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: I do like Conan the awesome Barbarian. It be nice to see Xena whup on him as I like her way better :)

#12 Edited by Nelomaxwell (10885 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@dondave said:

Gonna need some feats for Grendel

@nelomaxwell or @owie would be better to educate you, however he was able to hold his own with batman briefly (who compared his agility to nightwings I believe), and he killed 20 guys before any of them could react. He also fights and keeps pace with some were wolf which is super human.

Doesn't the shadow have hypnotism?

#13 Posted by jashro44 (27604 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@dondave said:

Gonna need some feats for Grendel

@nelomaxwell or @owie would be better to educate you, however he was able to hold his own with batman briefly (who compared his agility to nightwings I believe), and he killed 20 guys before any of them could react. He also fights and keeps pace with some were wolf which is super human.

Doesn't the shadow have hypnotism?

Yea. I guess it would probably be more fair if I removed that ability.

Here is a respect thread for the shadow:

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/the-shadow-respect-thread-1503183/?page=1

#14 Posted by Nelomaxwell (10885 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: I'll read it later. Yeah remove that.

#15 Edited by The_Titan_Lord (7379 posts) - - Show Bio

Leaning towards the shadow.

#16 Edited by Nelomaxwell (10885 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: With out the Mental powers the Grendel takes this from what I've seen of the Shadow. The Grendel's speed is insane and his agility is superhuman. He killed 20+ men before they could draw their guns. He fights a supernaturally fast and stronger were-wolf on a regular basis and embarrasses him.

#17 Edited by IndieComicsFTW (3252 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: With out the Mental powers the Grendel takes this from what I've seen of the Shadow. The Grendel's speed is insane and his agility is superhuman. He killed 20+ men before they could draw their guns. He fights a supernaturally fast and stronger were-wolf on a regular basis and embarrasses him.

Shadow also guns down up to 10 men at a time before they can react. However they may do to his Precog and Soul Reading.

#18 Posted by Owie (4154 posts) - - Show Bio

@nelomaxwell said:

@jashro44: With out the Mental powers the Grendel takes this from what I've seen of the Shadow. The Grendel's speed is insane and his agility is superhuman. He killed 20+ men before they could draw their guns. He fights a supernaturally fast and stronger were-wolf on a regular basis and embarrasses him.

Shadow also guns down up to 10 men at a time before they can react. However they may do to his Precog and Soul Reading.

But it's one thing to gun down 10 guys before they react, another to kill 20 with a hand weapon before they react.

I don't know much about the Shadow in terms of feats so I'm not judging though. I'll take a look at his respect thread tomorrow and chime back in then.

#19 Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3252 posts) - - Show Bio

@owie said:

@indiecomicsftw said:

@nelomaxwell said:

@jashro44: With out the Mental powers the Grendel takes this from what I've seen of the Shadow. The Grendel's speed is insane and his agility is superhuman. He killed 20+ men before they could draw their guns. He fights a supernaturally fast and stronger were-wolf on a regular basis and embarrasses him.

Shadow also guns down up to 10 men at a time before they can react. However they may do to his Precog and Soul Reading.

But it's one thing to gun down 10 guys before they react, another to kill 20 with a hand weapon before they react.

I don't know much about the Shadow in terms of feats so I'm not judging though. I'll take a look at his respect thread tomorrow and chime back in then.

By no means is Shadow Super Human fast. He does kill men, who are war harden veterans and know how to react and shoot, before they make a move.

He also has fought foes like The Light and Black Sparrow on even terms even though his pwers were not working. Both of them are insane fast in reaction and combat speed.

He is pretty good.

#20 Posted by Nelomaxwell (10885 posts) - - Show Bio

@owie said:

@indiecomicsftw said:

@nelomaxwell said:

@jashro44: With out the Mental powers the Grendel takes this from what I've seen of the Shadow. The Grendel's speed is insane and his agility is superhuman. He killed 20+ men before they could draw their guns. He fights a supernaturally fast and stronger were-wolf on a regular basis and embarrasses him.

Shadow also guns down up to 10 men at a time before they can react. However they may do to his Precog and Soul Reading.

But it's one thing to gun down 10 guys before they react, another to kill 20 with a hand weapon before they react.

I don't know much about the Shadow in terms of feats so I'm not judging though. I'll take a look at his respect thread tomorrow and chime back in then.

By no means is Shadow Super Human fast. He does kill men, who are war harden veterans and know how to react and shoot, before they make a move.

He also has fought foes like The Light and Black Sparrow on even terms even though his pwers were not working. Both of them are insane fast in reaction and combat speed.

He is pretty good.

Grendel volley's bullets with ease and has done so. How does the shadow deal with Melee? Let it be said that the Grendel is not only willing to kill but prefers it.

#21 Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3252 posts) - - Show Bio

@indiecomicsftw said:

@owie said:

@indiecomicsftw said:

@nelomaxwell said:

@jashro44: With out the Mental powers the Grendel takes this from what I've seen of the Shadow. The Grendel's speed is insane and his agility is superhuman. He killed 20+ men before they could draw their guns. He fights a supernaturally fast and stronger were-wolf on a regular basis and embarrasses him.

Shadow also guns down up to 10 men at a time before they can react. However they may do to his Precog and Soul Reading.

But it's one thing to gun down 10 guys before they react, another to kill 20 with a hand weapon before they react.

I don't know much about the Shadow in terms of feats so I'm not judging though. I'll take a look at his respect thread tomorrow and chime back in then.

By no means is Shadow Super Human fast. He does kill men, who are war harden veterans and know how to react and shoot, before they make a move.

He also has fought foes like The Light and Black Sparrow on even terms even though his pwers were not working. Both of them are insane fast in reaction and combat speed.

He is pretty good.

Grendel volley's bullets with ease and has done so. How does the shadow deal with Melee? Let it be said that the Grendel is not only willing to kill but prefers it.

Thats cool. The Light also deflects hails of bullets with her swords.

The Shadow face The Light. The Light is a highly train from a young age woman in the ways of God and Divine Justice. She is extremely fast and a master swordsman.

The Shadow second fight against the light. This time with a plan.

Both Examples of the super reaction, skill, and speed of Light. Shadow handles her pretty well and knows enough to stay away. This is all raw skill as well since Light is immune to Shadows

Add to this how can Grendel counter Shadow's Cloud Minds, Soul Reading, and Precog? This would add to Shadows ability to Misdirect Grendel and predict the entire battle, staying one step ahead.

#22 Posted by Nelomaxwell (10885 posts) - - Show Bio

@indiecomicsftw: I think the mental ability was removed for this match. Otherwise this is a mismatch and should be locked. This is a random encounter so no planning is gonna help the Shadow.

#23 Edited by IndieComicsFTW (3252 posts) - - Show Bio

@nelomaxwell said:

@indiecomicsftw: I think the mental ability was removed for this match. Otherwise this is a mismatch and should be locked. This is a random encounter so no planning is gonna help the Shadow.

No his Hypnosis is removed. With that he stomps as he can tell Grendel to kill himself. The Clouds Mens minds is not the same. It works by making you see only his shadow, or have him appear to disappear in front of your face.

Kinda like how Daken has his disappear trick.

Also when did I say planning?

The power to read in instantaneous as is his precog. He requires only Line of Sight.

#24 Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3252 posts) - - Show Bio

@nelomaxwell:

The Shadow Knows

This is a form of precognition. Simple as that. He is a servant of Justice, but this Justice is all due to Fate. Fate grants him visions of key events, and the ability after looking into someones heart the glimpses of their futures. Sometimes for Plot, Fate grants nothing, which The Shadow searches out why, and always never grants him the full story or info to accomplish a task. However he does use this to see others futures and predict people's action in a fight. This ability is use as a Line of sight power, like Reading the Hearts of Men. It also may tell him of a opponents next action, but it is up to the Shadow to react to said action.

1) Key explanation on the Shadow's precog abilities. He cannot fathom all possible endings, only the key ones that matter in his fights.

2) Starts speaking of Margo's future in casual talk.

3-6) Shadow uses his Precog to see the fate of one of his worst enemies, knowing Justice was served.

7) Uses Precog to predict the mans actions and intent.

8-9) Uses his power to glimpse what had happen already rather than what will happen. He can see what has happen as well it seems.

10) Shadow foresees World War 2 and the Nazi Regime.

All this is instant. He can look at Grendel and see what Fate has for this match up.

Reading the Hearts of Men

This is a very confusing and unique power. Sort of like Telepathy, however has nothing to do with Mind Control or Reading. It is more Soul Reading and Control. Its a mystic power that The Shadow uses to deal out justice. This power seems to require Line of Sight to work. Add to that some people remain immune to it if they are Mystics, Souless, or protected by Fate. This power also seems to manipulate the Dead and dying into carrying out orders or stay alive till he is through with them.

1) Explains how this power works. Its like a Road Map with all the tour spots listed. In this scan the Black Sparrow is immune to his Mystic powers for unexplained reasons.

2) Spots the evil soul of a target. He had no clue who he was looking for till he spot the Soul which revealed all it needed for Shadow to find who he was looking for.

3) Uses this power to know if man is lying or telling truth. He does this alot in other scans as well.

4-5) Mentally suggests to Nazi to see the evil had had done.

He can tell what Grendel will do before he does it as long he can see Grendel.

Cloud Men's Minds

The Shadow uses his ability to Mystically Misdirect foes to accomplish goals. Only the Mystically powered, or those protected by Fate are immune. Extreme Will foes can resist it to a degree, but they are still shown to be affected by it in some way, including other Heroes like the Green Hornet and his side kick Kato.

1) Misdirects Assassins to think he was a painting.

2) Misdirects a whole Dock Yard to board a ship.

3) Misdirects a small Japanese and Chinese army to get to the Buffalo.

4) Misdirects multiple people firing at him.

#25 Posted by Nelomaxwell (10885 posts) - - Show Bio
#26 Posted by Owie (4154 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Thanks for putting this up. I didn't know about the upcoming crossover, it should be fun, especially since I'm now much better educated on the Shadow.

@indiecomicsftw: nice respect thread. Good detail. Having read it, I think the Shadow would give Grendel a good fight, at the very least. It was nice to learn more about him, I may check out his books.

I would say that in pure H2H, Grendel is probably his superior, but clearly Shadow can hold his own against skilled fighters even in that; his one-shotting of Kato is very impressive. When it comes to bullets, he sure does blast out a hail of them. His technique in his second battle against Light probably would be successful against Grendel in the long run, although Grendel has actually redirected fired bullets back at their shooter, so that is an additional hazard for the Shadow. His various disappearing and precog abilities are certainly a big advantage. I would say the Cloud Men's Minds power probably should be cut out of the fight along with hypnotism, however, since it's kind of an auto-win power. Against that, however, Grendel has a brain mutation that allows him to use all of his brain capacity, essentially like Deathstroke's own "90% of the brain" super-strategy power. In terms of stealth, Shadow's powers clearly give him huge advantages. But Grendel, without powers, was able to sneak up on Batman without Batman knowing (they made a point of this fact) and otherwise has many similar feats to Shadow in terms of sneaking into heavily guarded buildings without anyone knowing, etc. I would disagree slightly with Nelomaxwell and say Grendel's agility isn't actually superhuman, but it is "effectively" superhuman--in the sense of being able to do things actual humans can't, but that top-level human comic characters like Nightwing or Daredevil can. Shadow is probably similar, in all his jumping and climbing that you documented, but Grendel seems to use his agility more in fights, similar to Black Canary's fighting style. Of course, he was able to fight her--not successfully each time, notably--but on the other hand she was toying with him in some of them, and Grendel will be out to kill here, and armed with an electrified bladed staff that's lethal on one strike. He also has essentially perfect aim.

I'll post some Grendel scans later today or tomorrow to back up some of what I've said. But basically I'd say that if we make it a straight-up fight, and ignore the whole disappearing and hiding in shadows issue, then it's reasonably well matched, I could see it going either way. I'd give Grendel the edge in H2H and agility, give the Shadow a big edge since they're starting from 30' and he's got guns, and perhaps give them about equal tactical abilities, given their mutual clear strategic skills, Grendel's brain mutation, and Shadow's precog.

#27 Posted by Nelomaxwell (10885 posts) - - Show Bio

@owie: You'll most likely be debating this alone. I'm not in the right frame of mind to be debating right now. Sorry.

#28 Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3252 posts) - - Show Bio

@indiecomicsftw: Then Shadow wins, I don't know what you want me to say.

Im not looking for a debate, I really know next to nothing on Grendel. Just making counters to what been said.

@owie said:

@jashro44: Thanks for putting this up. I didn't know about the upcoming crossover, it should be fun, especially since I'm now much better educated on the Shadow.

@indiecomicsftw: nice respect thread. Good detail. Having read it, I think the Shadow would give Grendel a good fight, at the very least. It was nice to learn more about him, I may check out his books.

I would say that in pure H2H, Grendel is probably his superior, but clearly Shadow can hold his own against skilled fighters even in that; his one-shotting of Kato is very impressive. When it comes to bullets, he sure does blast out a hail of them. His technique in his second battle against Light probably would be successful against Grendel in the long run, although Grendel has actually redirected fired bullets back at their shooter, so that is an additional hazard for the Shadow. His various disappearing and precog abilities are certainly a big advantage. I would say the Cloud Men's Minds power probably should be cut out of the fight along with hypnotism, however, since it's kind of an auto-win power. Against that, however, Grendel has a brain mutation that allows him to use all of his brain capacity, essentially like Deathstroke's own "90% of the brain" super-strategy power. In terms of stealth, Shadow's powers clearly give him huge advantages. But Grendel, without powers, was able to sneak up on Batman without Batman knowing (they made a point of this fact) and otherwise has many similar feats to Shadow in terms of sneaking into heavily guarded buildings without anyone knowing, etc. I would disagree slightly with Nelomaxwell and say Grendel's agility isn't actually superhuman, but it is "effectively" superhuman--in the sense of being able to do things actual humans can't, but that top-level human comic characters like Nightwing or Daredevil can. Shadow is probably similar, in all his jumping and climbing that you documented, but Grendel seems to use his agility more in fights, similar to Black Canary's fighting style. Of course, he was able to fight her--not successfully each time, notably--but on the other hand she was toying with him in some of them, and Grendel will be out to kill here, and armed with an electrified bladed staff that's lethal on one strike. He also has essentially perfect aim.

I'll post some Grendel scans later today or tomorrow to back up some of what I've said. But basically I'd say that if we make it a straight-up fight, and ignore the whole disappearing and hiding in shadows issue, then it's reasonably well matched, I could see it going either way. I'd give Grendel the edge in H2H and agility, give the Shadow a big edge since they're starting from 30' and he's got guns, and perhaps give them about equal tactical abilities, given their mutual clear strategic skills, Grendel's brain mutation, and Shadow's precog.

Nice Break Down.

The Shadow is like Daken, Spider Woman, Miles, Fantomex, or Midnighter. He has a very hard to counter power set.

#29 Edited by Owie (4154 posts) - - Show Bio

@owie said:

@indiecomicsftw: nice respect thread. Good detail. Having read it, I think the Shadow would give Grendel a good fight, at the very least. It was nice to learn more about him, I may check out his books.

I would say that in pure H2H, Grendel is probably his superior, but clearly Shadow can hold his own against skilled fighters even in that; his one-shotting of Kato is very impressive. When it comes to bullets, he sure does blast out a hail of them. His technique in his second battle against Light probably would be successful against Grendel in the long run, although Grendel has actually redirected fired bullets back at their shooter, so that is an additional hazard for the Shadow. His various disappearing and precog abilities are certainly a big advantage. I would say the Cloud Men's Minds power probably should be cut out of the fight along with hypnotism, however, since it's kind of an auto-win power. Against that, however, Grendel has a brain mutation that allows him to use all of his brain capacity, essentially like Deathstroke's own "90% of the brain" super-strategy power. In terms of stealth, Shadow's powers clearly give him huge advantages. But Grendel, without powers, was able to sneak up on Batman without Batman knowing (they made a point of this fact) and otherwise has many similar feats to Shadow in terms of sneaking into heavily guarded buildings without anyone knowing, etc. I would disagree slightly with Nelomaxwell and say Grendel's agility isn't actually superhuman, but it is "effectively" superhuman--in the sense of being able to do things actual humans can't, but that top-level human comic characters like Nightwing or Daredevil can. Shadow is probably similar, in all his jumping and climbing that you documented, but Grendel seems to use his agility more in fights, similar to Black Canary's fighting style. Of course, he was able to fight her--not successfully each time, notably--but on the other hand she was toying with him in some of them, and Grendel will be out to kill here, and armed with an electrified bladed staff that's lethal on one strike. He also has essentially perfect aim.

I'll post some Grendel scans later today or tomorrow to back up some of what I've said. But basically I'd say that if we make it a straight-up fight, and ignore the whole disappearing and hiding in shadows issue, then it's reasonably well matched, I could see it going either way. I'd give Grendel the edge in H2H and agility, give the Shadow a big edge since they're starting from 30' and he's got guns, and perhaps give them about equal tactical abilities, given their mutual clear strategic skills, Grendel's brain mutation, and Shadow's precog.

Nice Break Down.

The Shadow is like Daken, Spider Woman, Miles, Fantomex, or Midnighter. He has a very hard to counter power set.

Thanks. Seems like it. I was actually thinking he might be interesting to put up against Marvel's Devil-Slayer, another little-known favorite of mine. He's also a skilled combatant with a variety of mental powers. Or the Question, with his own mystic senses.

#30 Posted by Owie (4154 posts) - - Show Bio

@owie: You'll most likely be debating this alone. I'm not in the right frame of mind to be debating right now. Sorry.

No problem.

#31 Edited by jashro44 (27604 posts) - - Show Bio
#32 Edited by Owie (4154 posts) - - Show Bio

@indiecomicsftw: OK, here's some scans of Hunter Rose. Unless I say otherwise, assume they're in backwards order, sorry.

First is the Batman/Grendel crossover, which is usually considered to be canon for Grendel and not for Batman for various complicated reasons...basically the episode has been referenced in later Grendel comics.

Grendel sneaks up on Batman without Batman realizing it, and kicks him off a balcony. "Didn't hear a thing until it was too late. My foe is sleek." (Images are in order!):

Grendel cuts down a dozen cops who are encircling him at point blank range before they can fire (reverse order)

Their first encounter (in order!). He reacts to Batman's surprise silent attack from behind by rolling and kicking Batman out of the way before Batman can get him. Batman remarks that "He's lightning fast." Then Grendel leaves to further his overall strategy of playing tricks on Batman.

Their second encounter (in order!). Once again Batman tries a surprise, silent attack from behind, and again it doesn't work--Grendel slashes him seriously in the side. After some running around (Grendel is playing some characters off each other in a hostage game at this point), they melee. Both get in several hits, and although you don't see it, Batman breaks Grendel's arm (this is confirmed later). Batman finally knocks him down and takes off his mask, but he's got make-up underneath. With Batman surprised, Grendel manages to burn Batman's hand, but they separate and the fight is unresolved.

A few random shots from a fight with his werewolf nemesis, Argent. Note that even while facing him--the enemy who gives him his greatest challenge--he has the wherewithal to casually throw a knife at a cop off to his side. Unfortunately, most Grendel stories are told as short stories, so most of his many fights with Argent (who is superhumanly fast to the degree that others can only see a blur of movement when he runs, and is also probably around a 1-tonner) are not shown from beginning to end, they're sort of just vignettes.

Dodging bullets (reverse order)

Fighting Argent on two more occasions, note agility (reverse order)

He's almost always perfect at anything...but at one point when he's being invisibly stalked by a demon who creates a sort of supernatural fear in him, he is unusually off his game, to the degree that when he casually throws 3 darts at once, he's stunned that only 2 hit the bullseye.

Fighting zombies, which is so easy that he calls it boring and self-indulgent. (Images in order!)

various "jumping amongst the skyline" scenes

Slaughtering some Korean martial arts expert mobsters, note that he breaks a guy's sword with his fork then uses the fork to throw the sword at another guy (reverse order)

deflects a bullet back at the shooter, intentionally hitting her in the eye to make a mark similar to his mask (reverse order)

the front and back of his fork (which can be electrically charged) can be shot out on a cable and later retracted (these are especially out of order--read the first scene as image 4, then image 1; read the second scene as image 3, then image 2)

Even as a child, he could hit a fencing ball without missing, for hours, using either hand:

Got second place in the world fencing championships at 15, only because he realized he was so much better than his opponent that he threw the match

Dodging bullets, then killing the mob's top hitman (reverse order)

Intentionally cuts only the fingers off the hand of a guy who's holding a gun, so he drops it

lifts a fat guy with one arm (this is pointed out as a feat of strength by a cop later on)

Spears a falling cigarette before it hits the ground in one instance, and spears a cigarette out of a guy's mouth in another

This is just a couple pages from a detailed description of how he has his minions kill all the other crime bosses on the east coast coast in one day. It's not totally pertinent here, but I saw the Shadow did something similar, although the Shadow killed all his guys himself. Just an amusing symmetry. (reverse order)

Careening around on a speeding car

Cuts off a guy's head, which doesn't fall off until later (he does this to a few people)

Another scene of dodging bullets. Everyone dodges bullets in comics, I mostly want to get across his graceful, agile fighting style

And this is where he kills a room of mobsters before they can barely move, as described in detail. This is pieced together from multiple pages, so you may want to zoom in. (reverse order)

Anyway I don't see any of this changing my breakdown from a few posts ago, I just wanted to back up my statements.

#33 Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3252 posts) - - Show Bio

@owie: He certainly is skilled and meta human in stats. In a straight up fight he would decimate the Peak Human and moderate MA master The Shadow. It all comes down to Shadows Soul Reading Grendels attacks, seeing into the future, and Clouds Mens Minds to save him.

#34 Posted by Owie (4154 posts) - - Show Bio

@owie: He certainly is skilled and meta human in stats. In a straight up fight he would decimate the Peak Human and moderate MA master The Shadow. It all comes down to Shadows Soul Reading Grendels attacks, seeing into the future, and Clouds Mens Minds to save him.

I think Shadow also has a moderate chance to just barrage him with bullets, all other powers aside. Grendel's fast, and could close 30' pretty quickly, but not necessarily quickly enough to save him from a ton of shooting from a guy who is obviously a highly practiced gunman. Anyway, it's been an interesting conversation. I enjoyed learning more about what the Shadow is like in his current comic incarnation.

#35 Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3252 posts) - - Show Bio

@owie said:

@indiecomicsftw said:

@owie: He certainly is skilled and meta human in stats. In a straight up fight he would decimate the Peak Human and moderate MA master The Shadow. It all comes down to Shadows Soul Reading Grendels attacks, seeing into the future, and Clouds Mens Minds to save him.

I think Shadow also has a moderate chance to just barrage him with bullets, all other powers aside. Grendel's fast, and could close 30' pretty quickly, but not necessarily quickly enough to save him from a ton of shooting from a guy who is obviously a highly practiced gunman. Anyway, it's been an interesting conversation. I enjoyed learning more about what the Shadow is like in his current comic incarnation.

Yeah, Dynamite Shadow is pretty cool.

#36 Edited by prinplup45 (202 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.