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#1 Edited by dccomicsrule2011 (24173 posts) - - Show Bio

Alot of people on the Battle Forums say Gl's does not have speed and are just Humans with normal speed and would get beat By Superman level characters because of that I say it is false Gl does have good speed and reaction times and I will clear this up.

In the scans above Hal Was able to track a FTL Flash and the only reason Barry shook him off was because he change to Normal Barry Allen

The second scan Hal catches Flash who Superman failed to catch showing great perception time.

In the third scan Kyle Reacts to a ship going 7x faster then light.

These scans should prove GL's have great reaction time I will have more on the way.

#2 Posted by chucknorrisreturned (266 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay prove it

#3 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (24173 posts) - - Show Bio

@chucknorrisreturned said:

Okay prove it

I Just edited my post this computer was not letting me upload my scans but it is fixed now see the first post for proof.

#4 Posted by chucknorrisreturned (266 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011:Good job! :)

#5 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

Are these first 3 scans even Post Crisis? 
 
Kyle is different then them and he is considered as a FTL person on CV in opposite to the others. 

#6 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (24173 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

Are these first 3 scans even Post Crisis? Kyle is different then them and he is considered as a FTL person on CV in opposite to the others.

PC count for Gl's as young gunner explained DC have kept PC Gl's stories in tact.

#7 Posted by jashro44 (20849 posts) - - Show Bio

This should probably be moved to the green lantern section and probably should have just made this a respect thread but still very nice thread regardless. Any ways here are 2 feats that are kind of neat. The 2nd one is a bit iffy on how impressive it is but still.

Hal tags zoom while he is in motion.

Now this one is a bit confusing because john sort of got supes from behind but superman says john Stewart is faster to the draw.

#8 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@dccomicsrule2011 said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

Are these first 3 scans even Post Crisis? Kyle is different then them and he is considered as a FTL person on CV in opposite to the others.

PC count for Gl's as young gunner explained DC have kept PC Gl's stories in tact.

Nothing from Pre-Crisis counts.
#9 Posted by difficlus (10679 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

Are these first 3 scans even Post Crisis? Kyle is different then them and he is considered as a FTL person on CV in opposite to the others.

John stewart has caught up to flash, but that was more travel speed than reaction timing.

#10 Posted by jashro44 (20849 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

Are these first 3 scans even Post Crisis? Kyle is different then them and he is considered as a FTL person on CV in opposite to the others.

@jashro44 said:

This should probably be moved to the green lantern section and probably should have just made this a respect thread but still very nice thread regardless. Any ways here are 2 feats that are kind of neat. The 2nd one is a bit iffy on how impressive it is but still.

Hal tags zoom while he is in motion.

Now this one is a bit confusing because john sort of got supes from behind but superman says john Stewart is faster to the draw.

Does this prove anything?

#11 Posted by buttersdaman000 (9653 posts) - - Show Bio

The rings can automatically attack anything moving above the speed of sound. So while most lanterns dont have a lot of reaction feats that can easily be compensated for in a battle

#12 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@buttersdaman000 said:
The rings can automatically attack anything moving above the speed of sound. So while most lanterns dont have a lot of reaction feats that can easily be compensated for in a battle
Speed of sound isn't even close to Superman best feats.
#13 Posted by Saren (25628 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

@buttersdaman000 said:
The rings can automatically attack anything moving above the speed of sound. So while most lanterns dont have a lot of reaction feats that can easily be compensated for in a battle
Speed of sound isn't even close to Superman best feats.

It means that they can prevent any opponent from moving above that speed. John Stewart used it against Flash.

Moderator
#14 Posted by MrDirector786 (43533 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

Are these first 3 scans even Post Crisis? Kyle is different then them and he is considered as a FTL person on CV in opposite to the others.

PC count for Gl's as young gunner explained DC have kept PC Gl's stories in tact.

Nothing from Pre-Crisis counts.

Actually, anything Pre-Crisis that was mentioned Post-Crisis still counts. Not everything was retconned by the Crisis. For example, the story "For the man who Has Everything" is a Pre-Crisis story but it was mentioned Post-Crisis so it still counts. Only Pre-Crisis things that don't count are either things that were never mentioned or referenced in any sort of way Post-Crisis, or if it was completely changed such as the origins of some heroes.

#15 Posted by Saren (25628 posts) - - Show Bio

@MrDirector786 said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

Are these first 3 scans even Post Crisis? Kyle is different then them and he is considered as a FTL person on CV in opposite to the others.

PC count for Gl's as young gunner explained DC have kept PC Gl's stories in tact.

Nothing from Pre-Crisis counts.

Actually, anything Pre-Crisis that was mentioned Post-Crisis still counts. Not everything was retconned by the Crisis. For example, the story "For the man who Has Everything" is a Pre-Crisis story but it was mentioned Post-Crisis so it still counts. Only Pre-Crisis things that don't count are either things that were never mentioned or referenced in any sort of way Post-Crisis, or if it was completely changed such as the origins of some heroes.

Don't bother, he won't listen. I've tried this before.

Moderator
#16 Posted by beatboks1 (7171 posts) - - Show Bio

Sorry but for me the scans prove nothing.

1. The first two scans are of the Silver age. GL in the SA could match Superman of that era (i.e. the one who could tow planets and sneeze out galaxies), yet the post COIE one can't handle Superboy prime who is that same power level. In fact several GL's can't.

2. Flash of that era (on which we're basing the reaction feat) was slower than current. That was way before the speed force and all teh extra ability that gives him.

3. We have no idea how fast that ship was going. many fictions have a warp factor and the quotient for each is completely different. For one thing it was slow enough that someone had time to tell him about it coming, and him argue.

Online
#17 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@CitizenBane said:


Don't bother, he won't listen. I've tried this before.

And You were wrong, because they can't count.
@MrDirector786 said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

Are these first 3 scans even Post Crisis? Kyle is different then them and he is considered as a FTL person on CV in opposite to the others.

PC count for Gl's as young gunner explained DC have kept PC Gl's stories in tact.

Nothing from Pre-Crisis counts.

Actually, anything Pre-Crisis that was mentioned Post-Crisis still counts. Not everything was retconned by the Crisis. For example, the story "For the man who Has Everything" is a Pre-Crisis story but it was mentioned Post-Crisis so it still counts. Only Pre-Crisis things that don't count are either things that were never mentioned or referenced in any sort of way Post-Crisis, or if it was completely changed such as the origins of some heroes.


Pre-Crisis stories couldn't happen, because it would mean that if Hal Jordan was able to fight any Kryptonian, in post-crisis universe would be a god for them. The same with everything and everyone else. 
How any story could be "real", if completly different people were present in that Universe, that they had different story, different relations, etc.  
#18 Posted by Saren (25628 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

@CitizenBane said:

Don't bother, he won't listen. I've tried this before.

And You were wrong, because they can't count.
@MrDirector786 said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

Are these first 3 scans even Post Crisis? Kyle is different then them and he is considered as a FTL person on CV in opposite to the others.

PC count for Gl's as young gunner explained DC have kept PC Gl's stories in tact.

Nothing from Pre-Crisis counts.

Actually, anything Pre-Crisis that was mentioned Post-Crisis still counts. Not everything was retconned by the Crisis. For example, the story "For the man who Has Everything" is a Pre-Crisis story but it was mentioned Post-Crisis so it still counts. Only Pre-Crisis things that don't count are either things that were never mentioned or referenced in any sort of way Post-Crisis, or if it was completely changed such as the origins of some heroes.

Pre-Crisis stories couldn't happen, because it would mean that if Hal Jordan was able to fight any Kryptonian, in post-crisis universe would be a god for them. The same with everything and everyone else. How any story could be "real", if completly different people were present in that Universe, that they had different story, different relations, etc.

I was not wrong. You simply refused to listen. They're very different things, you know. Not all Pre-Crisis stories are canon. The ones that are connected through COIE, which is only a meager handful of them, are canon. It's been confirmed time and time again through various characters' statements. I've already told you all this. You simply said "but it can't be". It can.

Moderator
#19 Posted by beatboks1 (7171 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

Pre-Crisis stories couldn't happen, because it would mean that if Hal Jordan was able to fight any Kryptonian, in post-crisis universe would be a god for them. The same with everything and everyone else. How any story could be "real", if completly different people were present in that Universe, that they had different story, different relations, etc.

Yeah it get's confusing, but there are some stories from pre COIE that are still canon because they have been referenced since. For example everyone knows Barry died during the crisis, yet this happened before the time reset, Instances of Superman facing Mongul and many more. On that though there are a few things to note.

1. Only the actual events of the referenced story are canon. It's usually done to put some context to the current story.

2. the power levels should be in the context of the "Current" version of the character. So if reference was made to a time that Hal matched Superman it would be a superman of the modern era (not at the actual levels of the original story)

3. The power levels as currently defined for known characters would be used to redefine a character who has not been used post COIE to that point.

Seems DC never learns fro it's mistakes sine they're doing the same thing with DCNu

Online
#20 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@CitizenBane said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@CitizenBane said:

Don't bother, he won't listen. I've tried this before.

And You were wrong, because they can't count.

I was not wrong. You simply refused to listen. They're very different things, you know. Not all Pre-Crisis stories are canon. The ones that are connected through COIE, which is only a meager handful of them, are canon. It's been confirmed time and time again through various characters' statements. I've already told you all this. You simply said "but it can't be". It can.

It can't.  If You're talking about anything before that - it isn't canon for "Pre-Flashpoint" people. If something was shown "currently" it matters only in way it was shown. For example if Darkseid will talk about something that happened in that universe, it means that it happen in current universe, but we don't know how, because they are completly different now. If he was fighting with Pre-C Superman and it will be shown in comic on panel, it only means that he once fought with current Superman and isn't that high feat anymore. Nothing from that universe matters, only these things that were shown on panel and only in current stats/continuity counts.  So, these feats from above doesn't counts, until they will be shown again in current stories.
 

@beatboks1 said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

Pre-Crisis stories couldn't happen, because it would mean that if Hal Jordan was able to fight any Kryptonian, in post-crisis universe would be a god for them. The same with everything and everyone else. How any story could be "real", if completly different people were present in that Universe, that they had different story, different relations, etc.

Yeah it get's confusing, but there are some stories from pre COIE that are still canon because they have been referenced since. For example everyone knows Barry died during the crisis, yet this happened before the time reset, Instances of Superman facing Mongul and many more. On that though there are a few things to note.

1. Only the actual events of the referenced story are canon. It's usually done to put some context to the current story.

2. the power levels should be in the context of the "Current" version of the character. So if reference was made to a time that Hal matched Superman it would be a superman of the modern era (not at the actual levels of the original story)

3. The power levels as currently defined for known characters would be used to redefine a character who has not been used post COIE to that point.

Seems DC never learns fro it's mistakes sine they're doing the same thing with DCNu


In some part agree, in some not - look at my answer to CitizenBane. ;)
#21 Posted by Saren (25628 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

@CitizenBane said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@CitizenBane said:

Don't bother, he won't listen. I've tried this before.

And You were wrong, because they can't count.

I was not wrong. You simply refused to listen. They're very different things, you know. Not all Pre-Crisis stories are canon. The ones that are connected through COIE, which is only a meager handful of them, are canon. It's been confirmed time and time again through various characters' statements. I've already told you all this. You simply said "but it can't be". It can.

It can't. If You're talking about anything before that - it isn't canon for "Pre-Flashpoint" people. If something was shown "currently" it matters only in way it was shown. For example if Darkseid will talk about something that happened in that universe, it means that it happen in current universe, but we don't know how, because they are completly different now. If he was fighting with Pre-C Superman and it will be shown in comic on panel, it only means that he once fought with current Superman and isn't that high feat anymore. Nothing from that universe matters, only these things that were shown on panel and only in current stats/continuity counts. So, these feats from above doesn't counts, until they will be shown again in current stories.

Just because you keep saying it can't doesn't mean it can't. If we assume that what you say is true, then parts of Countdown, the entirety of Infinite Crisis and Flash:Rebirth are all non-canon. Since that's obviously not the case, those stories connected through COIE are canon. They have to be, because the contents of Post-Crisis events demand that they be canon. I really don't know how to make this any clearer.

Moderator
#22 Posted by beatboks1 (7171 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

In some part agree, in some not - look at my answer to CitizenBane. ;)

Actually based on that answer it looks like we agree in all ways, because that's pretty much what I meant

Online
#23 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@CitizenBane said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@CitizenBane said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@CitizenBane said:

Don't bother, he won't listen. I've tried this before.

And You were wrong, because they can't count.

I was not wrong. You simply refused to listen. They're very different things, you know. Not all Pre-Crisis stories are canon. The ones that are connected through COIE, which is only a meager handful of them, are canon. It's been confirmed time and time again through various characters' statements. I've already told you all this. You simply said "but it can't be". It can.

It can't. If You're talking about anything before that - it isn't canon for "Pre-Flashpoint" people. If something was shown "currently" it matters only in way it was shown. For example if Darkseid will talk about something that happened in that universe, it means that it happen in current universe, but we don't know how, because they are completly different now. If he was fighting with Pre-C Superman and it will be shown in comic on panel, it only means that he once fought with current Superman and isn't that high feat anymore. Nothing from that universe matters, only these things that were shown on panel and only in current stats/continuity counts. So, these feats from above doesn't counts, until they will be shown again in current stories.

Just because you keep saying it can't doesn't mean it can't. If we assume that what you say is true, then parts of Countdown, the entirety of Infinite Crisis and Flash:Rebirth are all non-canon. Since that's obviously not the case, those stories connected through COIE are canon. They have to be, because the contents of Post-Crisis events demand that they be canon. I really don't know how to make this any clearer.

First, You're wrong in thinking that You're explaining something to me. 
 You're often doing this, while this is only Your opinion.
 
If they were mentioned in Post-Crisis comics, ONLY parts of this events that were shown are canon, because they had to happen in current Universe. We don't know how they were looking. We only know informations about it, from people who are talking about it.
 
For example:
Story A happened in Pre-Crisis. Someone said that he remember that some accident B from that story happened.  So we have proof that thing B happened, but we completly don't know how Story A happened. So we can't use scans or facts that was made in that story, until they were perfectly shown in thing B.
#24 Posted by Dex_Starr (4772 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

@CitizenBane said:

Don't bother, he won't listen. I've tried this before.

And You were wrong, because they can't count.
@MrDirector786 said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

Are these first 3 scans even Post Crisis? Kyle is different then them and he is considered as a FTL person on CV in opposite to the others.

PC count for Gl's as young gunner explained DC have kept PC Gl's stories in tact.

Nothing from Pre-Crisis counts.

Actually, anything Pre-Crisis that was mentioned Post-Crisis still counts. Not everything was retconned by the Crisis. For example, the story "For the man who Has Everything" is a Pre-Crisis story but it was mentioned Post-Crisis so it still counts. Only Pre-Crisis things that don't count are either things that were never mentioned or referenced in any sort of way Post-Crisis, or if it was completely changed such as the origins of some heroes.

Pre-Crisis stories couldn't happen, because it would mean that if Hal Jordan was able to fight any Kryptonian, in post-crisis universe would be a god for them. The same with everything and everyone else. How any story could be "real", if completly different people were present in that Universe, that they had different story, different relations, etc.

Richard Dragon, Batman and Ra's al Ghul Stories, Starbreaker and the JLA, Man who has everything are all Pre Crisis stories that exist in post crisis continuity.

#25 Posted by Dex_Starr (4772 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

@MrDirector786 said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

Are these first 3 scans even Post Crisis? Kyle is different then them and he is considered as a FTL person on CV in opposite to the others.

PC count for Gl's as young gunner explained DC have kept PC Gl's stories in tact.

Nothing from Pre-Crisis counts.

Actually, anything Pre-Crisis that was mentioned Post-Crisis still counts. Not everything was retconned by the Crisis. For example, the story "For the man who Has Everything" is a Pre-Crisis story but it was mentioned Post-Crisis so it still counts. Only Pre-Crisis things that don't count are either things that were never mentioned or referenced in any sort of way Post-Crisis, or if it was completely changed such as the origins of some heroes.

Don't bother, he won't listen. I've tried this before.

I'm not even sure why he's posting here, I don't see any Marvel characters here.

#26 Posted by Saren (25628 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

@CitizenBane said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@CitizenBane said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@CitizenBane said:

Don't bother, he won't listen. I've tried this before.

And You were wrong, because they can't count.

I was not wrong. You simply refused to listen. They're very different things, you know. Not all Pre-Crisis stories are canon. The ones that are connected through COIE, which is only a meager handful of them, are canon. It's been confirmed time and time again through various characters' statements. I've already told you all this. You simply said "but it can't be". It can.

It can't. If You're talking about anything before that - it isn't canon for "Pre-Flashpoint" people. If something was shown "currently" it matters only in way it was shown. For example if Darkseid will talk about something that happened in that universe, it means that it happen in current universe, but we don't know how, because they are completly different now. If he was fighting with Pre-C Superman and it will be shown in comic on panel, it only means that he once fought with current Superman and isn't that high feat anymore. Nothing from that universe matters, only these things that were shown on panel and only in current stats/continuity counts. So, these feats from above doesn't counts, until they will be shown again in current stories.

Just because you keep saying it can't doesn't mean it can't. If we assume that what you say is true, then parts of Countdown, the entirety of Infinite Crisis and Flash:Rebirth are all non-canon. Since that's obviously not the case, those stories connected through COIE are canon. They have to be, because the contents of Post-Crisis events demand that they be canon. I really don't know how to make this any clearer.

First, You're wrong in thinking that You're explaining something to me. You're often doing this, while this is only Your opinion. If they were mentioned in Post-Crisis comics, ONLY parts of this events that were shown are canon, because they had to happen in current Universe. We don't know how they were looking. We only know informations about it, from people who are talking about it. For example: Story A happened in Pre-Crisis. Someone said that he remember that some accident B from that story happened. So we have proof that thing B happened, but we completly don't know how Story A happened. So we can't use scans or facts that was made in that story, until they were perfectly shown in thing B.

Pretty sure it's just common sense and not just an opinion.

Actually, if we only know "information" from people who were "talking about it", please explain to me why Barry Allen was dead for twenty years, and why Kal-L and Power Girl were in a pocket dimension for that long. Those events took place before Post-Crisis continuity. They were shown both Pre and Post Crisis. Your hypothesis doesn't make any sense and all. Barry was dead, his death took place before Post-C continuity, practically everyone under the sun in DC acknowledged it. So either he fell out of the sky in Rebirth, or the story was canon.

Moderator
#27 Posted by Killemall (18559 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@buttersdaman000 said:
The rings can automatically attack anything moving above the speed of sound. So while most lanterns dont have a lot of reaction feats that can easily be compensated for in a battle
Speed of sound isn't even close to Superman best feats.

It means that they can prevent any opponent from moving above that speed. John Stewart used it against Flash.

But wouldnt they need prep for that, i mean they have to be able to react and set or order the ring to do so BEFORE this takes place. its not automatic.

#28 Posted by Saren (25628 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

@CitizenBane said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@buttersdaman000 said:
The rings can automatically attack anything moving above the speed of sound. So while most lanterns dont have a lot of reaction feats that can easily be compensated for in a battle
Speed of sound isn't even close to Superman best feats.

It means that they can prevent any opponent from moving above that speed. John Stewart used it against Flash.

But wouldnt they need prep for that, i mean they have to be able to react and set or order the ring to do so BEFORE this takes place. its not automatic.

Yes, that's correct.

Moderator
#29 Posted by Killemall (18559 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

@Killemall said:

But wouldnt they need prep for that, i mean they have to be able to react and set or order the ring to do so BEFORE this takes place. its not automatic.

Yes, that's correct.

So this will not prevent GL from getting speed blitz in the battle forum right? why was this point brought up anyways?

#30 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@Hohenheim_of_light said:

@CitizenBane said:


Don't bother, he won't listen. I've tried this before.

I'm not even sure why he's posting here, I don't see any Marvel characters here.

Pathetic.
 
@Killemall said:

@CitizenBane said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@buttersdaman000 said:
The rings can automatically attack anything moving above the speed of sound. So while most lanterns dont have a lot of reaction feats that can easily be compensated for in a battle
Speed of sound isn't even close to Superman best feats.

It means that they can prevent any opponent from moving above that speed. John Stewart used it against Flash.

But wouldnt they need prep for that, i mean they have to be able to react and set or order the ring to do so BEFORE this takes place. its not automatic.


The same with their TP defence, but don't expect that most of their fans will listen to You...
 
@CitizenBane said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

First, You're wrong in thinking that You're explaining something to me. You're often doing this, while this is only Your opinion. If they were mentioned in Post-Crisis comics, ONLY parts of this events that were shown are canon, because they had to happen in current Universe. We don't know how they were looking. We only know informations about it, from people who are talking about it. For example: Story A happened in Pre-Crisis. Someone said that he remember that some accident B from that story happened. So we have proof that thing B happened, but we completly don't know how Story A happened. So we can't use scans or facts that was made in that story, until they were perfectly shown in thing B.

Pretty sure it's just common sense and not just an opinion.

Actually, if we only know "information" from people who were "talking about it", please explain to me why Barry Allen was dead for twenty years, and why Kal-L and Power Girl were in a pocket dimension for that long. Those events took place before Post-Crisis continuity. They were shown both Pre and Post Crisis. Your hypothesis doesn't make any sense and all. Barry was dead, his death took place before Post-C continuity, practically everyone under the sun in DC acknowledged it. So either he fell out of the sky in Rebirth, or the story was canon.

Logic triumphs that, even if DC want to belive in it. They have to show that events.
 
Exactly - they were shown in both Universe so they count. That is the point: If sometihng wasn't shown - it didn't happen, even if it was a part or a context of something else. If something was shown, we can use it, but only the part that was shown in current comics.
#31 Posted by Saren (25628 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

Logic triumphs that, even if DC want to belive in it. They have to show that events.

Exactly - they were shown in both Universe so they count. That is the point: If sometihng wasn't shown - it didn't happen, even if it was a part or a context of something else. If something was shown, we can use it, but only the part that was shown in current comics.

Every single thing that I've claimed so far has been shown both Pre and Post Crisis. Every. Single. Thing. What have you been arguing about for so long, if you're just going to agree with me? Have you even read COIE? Or any Pre-Crisis stories?

Moderator
#32 Posted by Killemall (18559 posts) - - Show Bio

Is it only me or are the scans a little iffy:

· Being able to follow flash should be a travel speed and not reaction time in a combat scenario. Besides there is no mention of what speed they were going. Even Quicksilver looks blur most of the time; we don’t know what speed that is, and he said light speed not FLT btw.

· Sorry, I simply can’t read the second scan.

· Third scan, we have same problem, we don’t know what speed flash was moving in and flash was also distracted by Hawkman.

· Last to scans is about Kyle who’s considered to be FLT. However Warp 7 = 7 X Speed of light? I didn’t know that :)

#33 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@CitizenBane said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

Logic triumphs that, even if DC want to belive in it. They have to show that events.

Exactly - they were shown in both Universe so they count. That is the point: If sometihng wasn't shown - it didn't happen, even if it was a part or a context of something else. If something was shown, we can use it, but only the part that was shown in current comics.

Every single thing that I've claimed so far has been shown both Pre and Post Crisis. Every. Single. Thing. What have you been arguing about for so long, if you're just going to agree with me? Have you even read COIE? Or any Pre-Crisis stories?

I am denying using Pre-Crisis feats/scans. That is how I answered to the thread.
#34 Posted by Saren (25628 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

@CitizenBane said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

Logic triumphs that, even if DC want to belive in it. They have to show that events.

Exactly - they were shown in both Universe so they count. That is the point: If sometihng wasn't shown - it didn't happen, even if it was a part or a context of something else. If something was shown, we can use it, but only the part that was shown in current comics.

Every single thing that I've claimed so far has been shown both Pre and Post Crisis. Every. Single. Thing. What have you been arguing about for so long, if you're just going to agree with me? Have you even read COIE? Or any Pre-Crisis stories?

I am denying using Pre-Crisis feats/scans. That is how I answered to the thread.

.....and then you spent an hour arguing with me for no reason whatsoever? I said some PC stories were canon. Some. And you jumped up and down shrieking that none of them were, only to eventually agree.

Moderator
#35 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@CitizenBane said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@CitizenBane said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

Logic triumphs that, even if DC want to belive in it. They have to show that events.

Exactly - they were shown in both Universe so they count. That is the point: If sometihng wasn't shown - it didn't happen, even if it was a part or a context of something else. If something was shown, we can use it, but only the part that was shown in current comics.

Every single thing that I've claimed so far has been shown both Pre and Post Crisis. Every. Single. Thing. What have you been arguing about for so long, if you're just going to agree with me? Have you even read COIE? Or any Pre-Crisis stories?

I am denying using Pre-Crisis feats/scans. That is how I answered to the thread.

.....and then you spent an hour arguing with me for no reason whatsoever? I said some PC stories were canon. Some. And you jumped up and down shrieking that none of them were, only to eventually agree.

Because You interfered into part of is discussion about these 3 scans. The same happened in our last debate about it. 
Old scans doesn't count, so these it doesn't matter what they have done there, until the same thing in the same way was shown in current stories. 
In this forum only thing that really matters is that these scans count or not. They don't, because nothing from Pre-Crisis counts, until it was also shown Post-Crisis, ergo only Post-Crisis scans counts and matters. 
The difference between us IMO, was that You've said that if some stories counts their feats counts. They don't, until we can see these feats in Post-Crisis comics.
#36 Posted by Saren (25628 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

@CitizenBane said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@CitizenBane said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

Logic triumphs that, even if DC want to belive in it. They have to show that events.

Exactly - they were shown in both Universe so they count. That is the point: If sometihng wasn't shown - it didn't happen, even if it was a part or a context of something else. If something was shown, we can use it, but only the part that was shown in current comics.

Every single thing that I've claimed so far has been shown both Pre and Post Crisis. Every. Single. Thing. What have you been arguing about for so long, if you're just going to agree with me? Have you even read COIE? Or any Pre-Crisis stories?

I am denying using Pre-Crisis feats/scans. That is how I answered to the thread.

.....and then you spent an hour arguing with me for no reason whatsoever? I said some PC stories were canon. Some. And you jumped up and down shrieking that none of them were, only to eventually agree.

Because You interfered into part of is discussion about these 3 scans. The same happened in our last debate about it. Old scans doesn't count, so these it doesn't matter what they have done there, until the same thing in the same way was shown in current stories. In this forum only thing that really matters is that these scans count or not. They don't, because nothing from Pre-Crisis counts, until it was also shown Post-Crisis, ergo only Post-Crisis scans counts and matters. The difference between us IMO, was that You've said that if some stories counts their feats counts. They don't, until we can see these feats in Post-Crisis comics.

*facepalm*

Moderator
#37 Posted by SlimJ87D (9720 posts) - - Show Bio

Can a green lantern not use their rings to naturally amp up their speed and reflexes?

Honestly, Green Lanterns got downplayed once they starting starring the Green Lantern Corps as a whole. When you saw Green Lanterns appear on their own they had great feats.

#38 Posted by SlimJ87D (9720 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hohenheim_of_light said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@CitizenBane said:

Don't bother, he won't listen. I've tried this before.

And You were wrong, because they can't count.
@MrDirector786 said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

Are these first 3 scans even Post Crisis? Kyle is different then them and he is considered as a FTL person on CV in opposite to the others.

PC count for Gl's as young gunner explained DC have kept PC Gl's stories in tact.

Nothing from Pre-Crisis counts.

Actually, anything Pre-Crisis that was mentioned Post-Crisis still counts. Not everything was retconned by the Crisis. For example, the story "For the man who Has Everything" is a Pre-Crisis story but it was mentioned Post-Crisis so it still counts. Only Pre-Crisis things that don't count are either things that were never mentioned or referenced in any sort of way Post-Crisis, or if it was completely changed such as the origins of some heroes.

Pre-Crisis stories couldn't happen, because it would mean that if Hal Jordan was able to fight any Kryptonian, in post-crisis universe would be a god for them. The same with everything and everyone else. How any story could be "real", if completly different people were present in that Universe, that they had different story, different relations, etc.

Richard Dragon, Batman and Ra's al Ghul Stories, Starbreaker and the JLA, Man who has everything are all Pre Crisis stories that exist in post crisis continuity.

Stories can carry over fine. Specially if there is evidence. It's the feats that are what is questionable. You can't assume that feats performed back then are considered canon now. Like Superman towing 100s of planets and now he can barelly tow 1/3 of a planet.

#39 Edited by Dex_Starr (4772 posts) - - Show Bio

@SlimJ87D: For 3 of those stories the feats carried over, I agree with you but I'm more or less pointing out that some pre crisis material is canon.

#40 Posted by Saren (25628 posts) - - Show Bio

@SlimJ87D said:

@Hohenheim_of_light said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@CitizenBane said:

Don't bother, he won't listen. I've tried this before.

And You were wrong, because they can't count.
@MrDirector786 said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

Are these first 3 scans even Post Crisis? Kyle is different then them and he is considered as a FTL person on CV in opposite to the others.

PC count for Gl's as young gunner explained DC have kept PC Gl's stories in tact.

Nothing from Pre-Crisis counts.

Actually, anything Pre-Crisis that was mentioned Post-Crisis still counts. Not everything was retconned by the Crisis. For example, the story "For the man who Has Everything" is a Pre-Crisis story but it was mentioned Post-Crisis so it still counts. Only Pre-Crisis things that don't count are either things that were never mentioned or referenced in any sort of way Post-Crisis, or if it was completely changed such as the origins of some heroes.

Pre-Crisis stories couldn't happen, because it would mean that if Hal Jordan was able to fight any Kryptonian, in post-crisis universe would be a god for them. The same with everything and everyone else. How any story could be "real", if completly different people were present in that Universe, that they had different story, different relations, etc.

Richard Dragon, Batman and Ra's al Ghul Stories, Starbreaker and the JLA, Man who has everything are all Pre Crisis stories that exist in post crisis continuity.

Stories can carry over fine. Specially if there is evidence. It's the feats that are what is questionable. You can't assume that feats performed back then are considered canon now. Like Superman towing 100s of planets and now he can barelly tow 1/3 of a planet.

No one said all the stories and feats are canon. What I've been trying to get through to czarny for the last two hours is that some of the stories and feats are canon. DC has built entire Post-Crisis arcs and events around those stories and feats. They obviously consider them canon. czarny expects me to believe his opinion trumps DC's. Not in the slightest.

Moderator
#41 Posted by Dex_Starr (4772 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@CitizenBane said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@CitizenBane said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

Logic triumphs that, even if DC want to belive in it. They have to show that events.

Exactly - they were shown in both Universe so they count. That is the point: If sometihng wasn't shown - it didn't happen, even if it was a part or a context of something else. If something was shown, we can use it, but only the part that was shown in current comics.

Every single thing that I've claimed so far has been shown both Pre and Post Crisis. Every. Single. Thing. What have you been arguing about for so long, if you're just going to agree with me? Have you even read COIE? Or any Pre-Crisis stories?

I am denying using Pre-Crisis feats/scans. That is how I answered to the thread.

.....and then you spent an hour arguing with me for no reason whatsoever? I said some PC stories were canon. Some. And you jumped up and down shrieking that none of them were, only to eventually agree.

Because You interfered into part of is discussion about these 3 scans. The same happened in our last debate about it. Old scans doesn't count, so these it doesn't matter what they have done there, until the same thing in the same way was shown in current stories. In this forum only thing that really matters is that these scans count or not. They don't, because nothing from Pre-Crisis counts, until it was also shown Post-Crisis, ergo only Post-Crisis scans counts and matters. The difference between us IMO, was that You've said that if some stories counts their feats counts. They don't, until we can see these feats in Post-Crisis comics.

*facepalm*

Did you understand any of that?

#42 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@Hohenheim_of_light said:

@CitizenBane said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@CitizenBane said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@CitizenBane said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

Logic triumphs that, even if DC want to belive in it. They have to show that events.

Exactly - they were shown in both Universe so they count. That is the point: If sometihng wasn't shown - it didn't happen, even if it was a part or a context of something else. If something was shown, we can use it, but only the part that was shown in current comics.

Every single thing that I've claimed so far has been shown both Pre and Post Crisis. Every. Single. Thing. What have you been arguing about for so long, if you're just going to agree with me? Have you even read COIE? Or any Pre-Crisis stories?

I am denying using Pre-Crisis feats/scans. That is how I answered to the thread.

.....and then you spent an hour arguing with me for no reason whatsoever? I said some PC stories were canon. Some. And you jumped up and down shrieking that none of them were, only to eventually agree.

Because You interfered into part of is discussion about these 3 scans. The same happened in our last debate about it. Old scans doesn't count, so these it doesn't matter what they have done there, until the same thing in the same way was shown in current stories. In this forum only thing that really matters is that these scans count or not. They don't, because nothing from Pre-Crisis counts, until it was also shown Post-Crisis, ergo only Post-Crisis scans counts and matters. The difference between us IMO, was that You've said that if some stories counts their feats counts. They don't, until we can see these feats in Post-Crisis comics.

*facepalm*

Did you understand any of that?

If You both don't - I don't care. 
I was the one who asked question. I was the one who started debate about scans. You both were/are against me, so You've tried to say that these scans counts. They don't. None of Pre-Crisis scans count.
#43 Posted by Saren (25628 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hohenheim_of_light said:

@CitizenBane said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@CitizenBane said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@CitizenBane said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

Logic triumphs that, even if DC want to belive in it. They have to show that events.

Exactly - they were shown in both Universe so they count. That is the point: If sometihng wasn't shown - it didn't happen, even if it was a part or a context of something else. If something was shown, we can use it, but only the part that was shown in current comics.

Every single thing that I've claimed so far has been shown both Pre and Post Crisis. Every. Single. Thing. What have you been arguing about for so long, if you're just going to agree with me? Have you even read COIE? Or any Pre-Crisis stories?

I am denying using Pre-Crisis feats/scans. That is how I answered to the thread.

.....and then you spent an hour arguing with me for no reason whatsoever? I said some PC stories were canon. Some. And you jumped up and down shrieking that none of them were, only to eventually agree.

Because You interfered into part of is discussion about these 3 scans. The same happened in our last debate about it. Old scans doesn't count, so these it doesn't matter what they have done there, until the same thing in the same way was shown in current stories. In this forum only thing that really matters is that these scans count or not. They don't, because nothing from Pre-Crisis counts, until it was also shown Post-Crisis, ergo only Post-Crisis scans counts and matters. The difference between us IMO, was that You've said that if some stories counts their feats counts. They don't, until we can see these feats in Post-Crisis comics.

*facepalm*

Did you understand any of that?

It's basically him closing his ears and going "LALALAL I CAN'T HEAR YOU THEY DON'T COUNT".

Moderator
#44 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@CitizenBane said:


*facepalm*

Did you understand any of that?

It's basically him closing his ears and going "LALALAL I CAN'T HEAR YOU THEY DON'T COUNT".

Are You both going to troll now?
#45 Posted by Dex_Starr (4772 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

@CitizenBane said:

*facepalm*

Did you understand any of that?

It's basically him closing his ears and going "LALALAL I CAN'T HEAR YOU THEY DON'T COUNT".

Are You both going to troll now?

Oh yeah I forgot, anyone who doesn't agree with you is automatically trolling. My mistake.

#46 Posted by Killemall (18559 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane: I don’t get it, how is czarny ignoring your post, in fact it seem to me you guys are actually agreeing something.

What Czarny is saying is, the stories might be canon however the feats that these scan stand to show are non-canon unless those feats were also either recalled or repeated in the Post Crisis stories.

Isnt that exactly what you told SlimJ87D??

#47 Posted by Saren (25628 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

@CitizenBane: I don’t get it, how is czarny ignoring your post, in fact it seem to me you guys are actually agreeing something.

What Czarny is saying is, the stories might be canon however the feats that these scan stand to show are non-canon unless those feats were also either recalled or repeated in the Post Crisis stories.

Isnt that exactly what you told SlimJ87D??

Every single feat that I've named has been repeated or recalled or recreated Post-Crisis. Every single one. czarny doesn't even realize that he's disagreeing with what he's already said.

Moderator
#48 Posted by Outside_85 (8753 posts) - - Show Bio

Will say GL's (the humans that is) aren't naturally fast and if they don't come prepared for it, someone like Superman, Flash or Zoom can take their heads off as easily as they can any other human. 
However, since they come from a place were there are such being that can move at those speeds it's fair to say that the Lanterns come prepared to fight people who are much faster than they are, by getting their rings to speed up their own perception, set up 'trip wires' and alarm systems to counter it.

#49 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@CitizenBane said:

@Killemall said:

@CitizenBane: I don’t get it, how is czarny ignoring your post, in fact it seem to me you guys are actually agreeing something.

What Czarny is saying is, the stories might be canon however the feats that these scan stand to show are non-canon unless those feats were also either recalled or repeated in the Post Crisis stories.

Isnt that exactly what you told SlimJ87D??

Every single feat that I've named has been repeated or recalled or recreated Post-Crisis. Every single one. czarny doesn't even realize that he's disagreeing with what he's already said.

Again:
Then scans posted above doesn't matter, because all of You can simply post right scans from Post-Crisis comics to prove that.
#50 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (24173 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

Is it only me or are the scans a little iffy:

· Being able to follow flash should be a travel speed and not reaction time in a combat scenario. Besides there is no mention of what speed they were going. Even Quicksilver looks blur most of the time; we don’t know what speed that is, and he said light speed not FLT btw.

· Sorry, I simply can’t read the second scan.

· Third scan, we have same problem, we don’t know what speed flash was moving in and flash was also distracted by Hawkman.

· Last to scans is about Kyle who’s considered to be FLT. However Warp 7 = 7 X Speed of light? I didn’t know that :)

The Flash said he was going light speed in the scan and in order for Hal to even be bale to see him he had to be able to have light speed perception.

But Supes missed him that is the point.

Ok it is speculation.