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#1 Posted by Sexy Merc (42460 posts) - - Show Bio
 ION (Kyle Rayner)
 Hal Jordan
 Kilowog
 Guy Gardner
 John Stewart
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
                                                                                                                        
  Battle takes place in Oa. Win by all conventional means.                             VS                                                     They start off 100 ft away and character morals are on.
 
 
 Silver Surfer
 Quasar
 Beta Ray Bill
 Gladiator
Nova
#2 Posted by The Average Bear (2242 posts) - - Show Bio
Green Lanterns via ION. otherwise it would be the Cosmic Avengers.
#3 Posted by FinalStar86 (8651 posts) - - Show Bio

The CA are going to die

#4 Posted by ComicMan24 (147387 posts) - - Show Bio

Which version of Ion is used?

#5 Posted by Sexy Merc (42460 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Average Bear said:
" Green Lanterns via ION. otherwise it would be the Cosmic Avengers. "
Sodam Yat can contend with Surfer based on his experience and limited time as ION as well as him not having access to the full power of it. This version would be a much better match in my opinion.
#6 Posted by Sexy Merc (42460 posts) - - Show Bio
@ComicMan24 said:
" Which version of Ion is used? "
The one pictured. Kyle Rayner with the Starheart (second appearance).
#7 Posted by ComicMan24 (147387 posts) - - Show Bio
@Sexy Merc: Thanks.
#8 Posted by Sexy Merc (42460 posts) - - Show Bio
@ComicMan24: No problem and the character links don't work with captions...damn.
#9 Posted by The Average Bear (2242 posts) - - Show Bio
@Sexy Merc said:
" @The Average Bear said:
" Green Lanterns via ION. otherwise it would be the Cosmic Avengers. "
Sodam Yat can contend with Surfer based on his experience and limited time as ION as well as him not having access to the full power of it. This version would be a much better match in my opinion. "
All of which is why I give victory to Green Lanterns
#10 Posted by Sexy Merc (42460 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Average Bear said:
" @Sexy Merc said:
" @The Average Bear said:
" Green Lanterns via ION. otherwise it would be the Cosmic Avengers. "
Sodam Yat can contend with Surfer based on his experience and limited time as ION as well as him not having access to the full power of it. This version would be a much better match in my opinion. "
All of which is why I give victory to Green Lanterns "
I meant can't contend, typo. There are mixed opinions on the whole Hal vs Quasar thing, Guy vs Gladiator, and possibly the others too.
#11 Posted by The Average Bear (2242 posts) - - Show Bio
@Sexy Merc said:
" @The Average Bear said:
" @Sexy Merc said:
" @The Average Bear said:
" Green Lanterns via ION. otherwise it would be the Cosmic Avengers. "
Sodam Yat can contend with Surfer based on his experience and limited time as ION as well as him not having access to the full power of it. This version would be a much better match in my opinion. "
All of which is why I give victory to Green Lanterns "
I meant can't contend, typo. There are mixed opinions on the whole Hal vs Quasar thing, Guy vs Gladiator, and possibly the others too. "
I think Hal could possibly take Quasar. If ION weren't present in this battle, I'd say a majority of the victory goes to Novas contributions as well as the Surfers.
#12 Posted by The_Martian (37399 posts) - - Show Bio

No Ronan?

#13 Posted by Sexy Merc (42460 posts) - - Show Bio
@Nobody: Ronan is pretty weak in my opinion compared to everyone else in this fight. Once I reached five Lanterns in one row, I just wanted to make it 5 on 5.
#14 Posted by Death Certificate (5722 posts) - - Show Bio

This looks interesting

#15 Posted by difficlus (10659 posts) - - Show Bio

why do they always put ION in the GL vs threads, its like he knows there gonna lose without him. lol

#16 Posted by Dane (10662 posts) - - Show Bio

Green Lantern Corps.

Online
#17 Posted by Sexy Merc (42460 posts) - - Show Bio
@difficlus said:
" why do they always put ION in the GL vs threads, its like he knows there gonna lose without him. lol "
Silver Surfer is above any member of the Green Lantern Corps. If you weren't so ignorant, maybe you would have caught on.
#18 Posted by difficlus (10659 posts) - - Show Bio
@Sexy Merc said:
" @difficlus said:
" why do they always put ION in the GL vs threads, its like he knows there gonna lose without him. lol "
Silver Surfer is above any member of the Green Lantern Corps. If you weren't so ignorant, maybe you would have caught on. "
i know that but then people put Ion there knowing he can solo...well w/e team 1 wins as usual. 
#19 Posted by Sexy Merc (42460 posts) - - Show Bio
@difficlus said:
" @Sexy Merc said:
" @difficlus said:
" why do they always put ION in the GL vs threads, its like he knows there gonna lose without him. lol "
Silver Surfer is above any member of the Green Lantern Corps. If you weren't so ignorant, maybe you would have caught on. "
i know that but then people put Ion there knowing he can solo...well w/e team 1 wins as usual.  "
Who said he can solo? Maybe you're thinking of Kyle's first appearance as ION.
#20 Posted by Sexy Merc (42460 posts) - - Show Bio
@Death Certificate: Who do you think takes it?
#21 Posted by Fist_of_Mandalore (1906 posts) - - Show Bio

As stated if it weren't for Ion, CA would win this.

#22 Posted by Death Certificate (5722 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm main spectating get more info on both groups, to expand my knowlegde. By the looks of it the fight, and the limited scans I've seen in my life, it mainly comes down to ION and the Sliver Sufer. IMO the Lantern Corps can handle the rest of the team, but sliver surfer is out their league.       

#23 Posted by King-Stranglehold da first (3345 posts) - - Show Bio

Cosmic Avengers ftw.  
 
Is this current SS?
#24 Posted by Sexy Merc (42460 posts) - - Show Bio
@King-Stranglehold da first: It is current Silver Surfer.
#25 Posted by King-Stranglehold da first (3345 posts) - - Show Bio
@Sexy Merc said:
" @King-Stranglehold da first: It is current Silver Surfer. "

Thanks.
#26 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17181 posts) - - Show Bio

Intresting.
I think that if Quasar will be able to absorb GL's attacks CA will win it.

#27 Posted by ssejllenrad (13028 posts) - - Show Bio

Good thing this ain't Classic Ion. With torchbearer Ion, GL wins 6/10. Good matchup!

#28 Posted by Silver2467 (16505 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dane said:
" Green Lantern Corps. "
#29 Posted by AworkofArt123 (278 posts) - - Show Bio


 
 
 
Nova has full corps power right? If he does, then Cosmic Avengers ftw. 
 
Silver Surfer is beyond any single Green Lantern for sure. However this was balanced through adding ION. However if Nova has the full corps power, Then the GL's have no way of canceling him out. Then backed up by BRB and full confident Gladiator, Kilowog, Guy, and John are in for some serious hurting. I have no disrespect for the GL team. Their green light constructs/fields are enough to contend with Superman. However it's their durability that is at question. If any one of these cosmic warriors land a square hit on any of the green lanterns (Kilowog has best durability IMO) then it's lights out.  
 
I like the corps a WHOLE lot, but they are still fragile beings behind those green constructs. Wasn't John one-shotted by Super-girl? Correct me if I was wrong on that, but I thought I saw that. Any of these guys are on that level (way stronger IMO). 
#30 Posted by Sexy Merc (42460 posts) - - Show Bio
@AworkofArt123: How is their durability at question? That might possibly be their greatest defense. Top tier Lanterns (the ones in this match) are capable of surviving planet busters from auto-guards by their rings, containing supernovas while transferring their teammates to negative radiant energy, rookie Lanterns can seal black holes, they can easily put up shields against nukes, Kyle as ION absorbed and condensed an attack from Nero that had the power to kill the Guardians and potentially destroy all of Oa. There are tons more durability feats.
#31 Posted by King Saturn (218246 posts) - - Show Bio
I dont think this battle is as clear cut is some folks are thinking... I dont know if this version of ION will run through the Silver Surfer as some have said... 
#32 Posted by Sexy Merc (42460 posts) - - Show Bio
@King Saturn: I don't think he'll run through him but I think he'd beat him in a good fight.
#33 Posted by King Saturn (218246 posts) - - Show Bio
@Sexy Merc said:
" @King Saturn: I don't think he'll run through him but I think he'd beat him in a good fight. "
what makes you think he will beat him... 
#34 Posted by Sexy Merc (42460 posts) - - Show Bio
@King Saturn said:
" @Sexy Merc said:
" @King Saturn: I don't think he'll run through him but I think he'd beat him in a good fight. "
what makes you think he will beat him...  "
He is way more experienced than Sodam and on top of that has additional power from the Starheart. He easily contained and dispersed of an energy blast by Nero that was going to kill the Guardians and destroy Planet Oa itself.
#35 Posted by Final Arrow (24323 posts) - - Show Bio

 
 


YOU GAVE ION TO KYLE...ARE YOU MAD MAN.. 
 
So yeah the GL's should win this.
#36 Posted by Sexy Merc (42460 posts) - - Show Bio
@Final Arrow: He's not the ION in my AV.
 
: P
#37 Posted by Final Arrow (24323 posts) - - Show Bio
@Sexy Merc: Well thats just not ION is it :p
#38 Edited by King Saturn (218246 posts) - - Show Bio
@Sexy Merc said:

" @King Saturn said:

" @Sexy Merc said:
" @King Saturn: I don't think he'll run through him but I think he'd beat him in a good fight. "
what makes you think he will beat him...  "
He is way more experienced than Sodam and on top of that has additional power from the Starheart. He easily contained and dispersed of an energy blast by Nero that was going to kill the Guardians and destroy Planet Oa itself. "
okay... but what else has he shown with this additional Starheart power and ION... cause containing a Planet Busting attack doesnt seem like something thats way out of the Silver Surfer's reach being it is he has made Planet Busting attacks in the Past as well as he can Siphon Energy... which can cause problems here... 
#39 Posted by Sexy Merc (42460 posts) - - Show Bio
@King Saturn said:
" @Sexy Merc said:
" @King Saturn said:
" @Sexy Merc said:
" @King Saturn: I don't think he'll run through him but I think he'd beat him in a good fight. "
what makes you think he will beat him...  "
He is way more experienced than Sodam and on top of that has additional power from the Starheart. He easily contained and dispersed of an energy blast by Nero that was going to kill the Guardians and destroy Planet Oa itself. "
okay... but what else has he shown with this additional Starheart power and ION... cause containing a Planet Busting attack doesnt seem like something thats way out of the Silver Surfer's reach being it is he has made multiple Planet Busting attacks in the past and can Siphon Energy... which can cause problems here...  "
The attack was going to destroy Oa and the Guardians. I highly doubt that one planet buster can take care of The Guardians and Oa at the same time. They are also omniscient to an extent so if they had the power to, they would of dispatched of Nero themselves, but they couldn't.
 
He destroyed Grayven and trapped him in the centre of the Earth if I recall correctly (obviously Surfer would get out of that.)
He tanked Grayven's Quasi Omega Beams easily and constructed a shield that wasn't even dented by Grayven's most powerful offensive attack.
He destroyed an orbital moon base with a minuscule blast.
He beat down Effigy while holding back
He took down two high-tier Green Lanterns with one blast right when he became ION and they were incapacitated despite the fact that he wasn't trying to hurt them and holding back.
He beat down the Tangent version of Flash and Captain Atom while showing that he can control the energies that the are both made from.
He can bring back people from the dead easily, as well as sending them back. 

There are more but Surfer has more feats due to Kyle only having like 12 issues or something.
 
I don't really want to get into the debate here as I want to see what others think.
#40 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17181 posts) - - Show Bio

What with Quasar? He is better in absorbing energy than Surfer and his constructs are very durable too.
BRB can absorb their beams too.

#41 Posted by King Saturn (218246 posts) - - Show Bio
@Sexy Merc said:
" @King Saturn said:
" @Sexy Merc said:
" @King Saturn said:
" @Sexy Merc said:
" @King Saturn: I don't think he'll run through him but I think he'd beat him in a good fight. "
what makes you think he will beat him...  "
He is way more experienced than Sodam and on top of that has additional power from the Starheart. He easily contained and dispersed of an energy blast by Nero that was going to kill the Guardians and destroy Planet Oa itself. "
okay... but what else has he shown with this additional Starheart power and ION... cause containing a Planet Busting attack doesnt seem like something thats way out of the Silver Surfer's reach being it is he has made multiple Planet Busting attacks in the past and can Siphon Energy... which can cause problems here...  "
The attack was going to destroy Oa and the Guardians. I highly doubt that one planet buster can take care of The Guardians and Oa at the same time. They are also omniscient to an extent so if they had the power to, they would of dispatched of Nero themselves, but they couldn't.  He destroyed Grayven and trapped him in the centre of the Earth if I recall correctly (obviously Surfer would get out of that.) He tanked Grayven's Quasi Omega Beams easily and constructed a shield that wasn't even dented by Grayven's most powerful offensive attack. He destroyed an orbital moon base with a minuscule blast. He beat down Effigy while holding back He took down two high-tier Green Lanterns with one blast right when he became ION and they were incapacitated despite the fact that he wasn't trying to hurt them and holding back. He beat down the Tangent version of Flash and Captain Atom while showing that he can control the energies that the are both made from. He can bring back people from the dead easily, as well as sending them back.  There are more but Surfer has more feats due to Kyle only having like 12 issues or something.  I don't really want to get into the debate here as I want to see what others think. "
1. sounds sort of funny... how is it that Nero could generate a Planet Busting attack that could kill the Guardians and blow up Oa... but the Silver Surfer can not... what was Nero powered by that gives him such a power advantage over the Surfer...  
 
2. the feats you listed are good... but a lot of these things could be duplicated by the Surfer... blowing up a Moon... beating Effigy ( thats the Fire Generating Guy right )... Grayven is merely a shell of what is father is ( Darkseid )... I dont think he poses that much of a threat to someone like the Surfer... Captain Atom could probably put up a good fight with the Surfer I guess... though really the Silver Surfer could end that fight and any of these here by simply attacking on the Astral Plane level... which he could do... as you said the Surfer has a wealth more of feats backing him... hence why I am not so sure that this version of ION could beat him... they both seem to be capable of the same things for the most part IMO... 
#42 Posted by Sexy Merc (42460 posts) - - Show Bio
@King Saturn said:
" 1. sounds sort of funny... how is it that Nero could generate a Planet Busting attack that could kill the Guardians and blow up Oa... but the Silver Surfer can not... what was Nero powered by that gives him such a power advantage over the Surfer...  
 
2. the feats you listed are good... but a lot of these things could be duplicated by the Surfer... blowing up a Moon... beating Effigy ( thats the Fire Generating Guy right )... Grayven is merely a shell of what is father is ( Darkseid )... I dont think he poses that much of a threat to someone like the Surfer... Captain Atom could probably put up a good fight with the Surfer I guess... though really the Silver Surfer could end that fight and any of these here by simply attacking on the Astral Plane level... which he could do... as you said the Surfer has a wealth more of feats backing him... hence why I am not so sure that this version of ION could beat him... they both seem to be capable of the same things for the most part IMO...  "
1) It was definitely of a larger scale than a planet buster and I didn't say Surfer was incapable of performing planet busting attacks. I never compared Nero to Surfer, just the durability of Kyle can easily contain and disperse of the attack and if I recall correctly, created a kind of pocket dimension.
 
2) The Quasi Omega Beams harmed Superman before though, and Kyle wasn't phased by it and restricted his arms with a construct in the next panel. I think Grayven would give Surfer a decent fight, but Surfer would take a solid majority. Effigy is the guy with Flame Manipulation. In my opinion, Kyle take a majority here, but I don't really like debating on my own threads, especially this one, since I'm majorly biased for one of the teams and one character in general. Surfer is one of the most powerful heroes and he would give a tough fight for anyone in this match. Again though, I'm just not going to debate it here.
#43 Posted by King Saturn (218246 posts) - - Show Bio
@Sexy Merc said:
" @King Saturn said:
" 1. sounds sort of funny... how is it that Nero could generate a Planet Busting attack that could kill the Guardians and blow up Oa... but the Silver Surfer can not... what was Nero powered by that gives him such a power advantage over the Surfer...  
 
2. the feats you listed are good... but a lot of these things could be duplicated by the Surfer... blowing up a Moon... beating Effigy ( thats the Fire Generating Guy right )... Grayven is merely a shell of what is father is ( Darkseid )... I dont think he poses that much of a threat to someone like the Surfer... Captain Atom could probably put up a good fight with the Surfer I guess... though really the Silver Surfer could end that fight and any of these here by simply attacking on the Astral Plane level... which he could do... as you said the Surfer has a wealth more of feats backing him... hence why I am not so sure that this version of ION could beat him... they both seem to be capable of the same things for the most part IMO...  "
1) It was definitely of a larger scale than a planet buster and I didn't say Surfer was incapable of performing planet busting attacks. I never compared Nero to Surfer, just the durability of Kyle can easily contain and disperse of the attack and if I recall correctly, created a kind of pocket dimension.  2) The Quasi Omega Beams harmed Superman before though, and Kyle wasn't phased by it and restricted his arms with a construct in the next panel. I think Grayven would give Surfer a decent fight, but Surfer would take a solid majority. Effigy is the guy with Flame Manipulation. In my opinion, Kyle take a majority here, but I don't really like debating on my own threads, especially this one, since I'm majorly biased for one of the teams and one character in general. Surfer is one of the most powerful heroes and he would give a tough fight for anyone in this match. Again though, I'm just not going to debate it here. "
1. I thought Oa was a Planet though... so if the Blast was going to destroy Oa... how could it have been more than just a Planet Buster... was if aiming to destroy more than just the Planet and the Guardians... 
2. Grayven is still a lower class villian though... and even Lightning has harmed Superman in the past so I wouldnt be shocked if those Quasi Beams did hurt him momentarily... but again... none of those feats listed are really out of the Surfer's reach of doing for the most part... so its really hard to say if this ION could take him out... 
3. you may not wanna debate this... but it doesnt seem like anyone else is putting much effort forth besides saying the Green Lanterns win because of ION... 
#44 Posted by Sexy Merc (42460 posts) - - Show Bio
@King Saturn said:
" 1. I thought Oa was a Planet though... so if the Blast was going to destroy Oa... how could it have been more than just a Planet Buster... was if aiming to destroy more than just the Planet and the Guardians... 
2. Grayven is still a lower class villian though... and even Lightning has harmed Superman in the past so I wouldnt be shocked if those Quasi Beams did hurt him momentarily... but again... none of those feats listed are really out of the Surfer's reach of doing for the most part... so its really hard to say if this ION could take him out... 
3. you may not wanna debate this... but it doesnt seem like anyone else is putting much effort forth besides saying the Green Lanterns win because of ION...  "
1) The Guardians, Kyle, and Nero were just outside of Oa, in space. The Guardians, even if Oa was destroyed by a planet buster (which it would be), are more durable. Guardians are able to harm Prime, Anti-Monitor and single Guardian can crack a planet in half with a thought, so I do see how the planet buster was going to destroy Oa but Nero was also targeting the Guardians, and there's no way that a planet buster in taking care of the Guardians.
 
The major problem with reflecting Kyle's status as ION in this version is that he held back severely. He never once let loose his powers at all. He overloaded and incapacitated Nero during a second confrontation by just overloading him with the ION energy since he can perfectly harness the ION and Starheart power inside him and has full control over it. He even dispatches of 2 armies of other countries in a few seconds. He created pocket dimensions as well but he was definitely not shown to his maximum capabilities, at all. He held back more than a pacifist Surfer in this run, due to the power of ION he had previously, he probably didn't want to hurt anyone. For the record, The Guardians, right as Kyle became one with the Starheart, said that the power he attained rivaled the power he had previously as ION and the Guardians are one of the best sensors in DC being able to scope out wills of beings in universes, analyzing the Anti-Monitor's powers etc. Obviously no feats put him at the level of his previous mantle as ION, but he was severely holding back and barely using a fraction of his power throughout this run, as he was during his first appearance.
#45 Posted by King Saturn (218246 posts) - - Show Bio
@Sexy Merc said:
" @King Saturn said:
" 1. I thought Oa was a Planet though... so if the Blast was going to destroy Oa... how could it have been more than just a Planet Buster... was if aiming to destroy more than just the Planet and the Guardians... 
2. Grayven is still a lower class villian though... and even Lightning has harmed Superman in the past so I wouldnt be shocked if those Quasi Beams did hurt him momentarily... but again... none of those feats listed are really out of the Surfer's reach of doing for the most part... so its really hard to say if this ION could take him out... 
3. you may not wanna debate this... but it doesnt seem like anyone else is putting much effort forth besides saying the Green Lanterns win because of ION...  "
1) The Guardians, Kyle, and Nero were just outside of Oa, in space. The Guardians, even if Oa was destroyed by a planet buster (which it would be), are more durable. Guardians are able to harm Prime, Anti-Monitor and single Guardian can crack a planet in half with a thought, so I do see how the planet buster was going to destroy Oa but Nero was also targeting the Guardians, and there's no way that a planet buster in taking care of the Guardians.  The major problem with reflecting Kyle's status as ION in this version is that he held back severely. He never once let loose his powers at all. He overloaded and incapacitated Nero during a second confrontation by just overloading him with the ION energy since he can perfectly harness the ION and Starheart power inside him and has full control over it. He even dispatches of 2 armies of other countries in a few seconds. He created pocket dimensions as well but he was definitely not shown to his maximum capabilities, at all. He held back more than a pacifist Surfer in this run, due to the power of ION he had previously, he probably didn't want to hurt anyone. For the record, The Guardians, right as Kyle became one with the Starheart, said that the power he attained rivaled the power he had previously as ION and the Guardians are one of the best sensors in DC being able to scope out wills of beings in universes, analyzing the Anti-Monitor's powers etc. Obviously no feats put him at the level of his previous mantle as ION, but he was severely holding back and barely using a fraction of his power throughout this run, as he was during his first appearance. "
who is to say the Guardians are immune to Planet Buster attacks though... fighting and harming Superman Prime and Anti Monitor are offensive attacks... that doesnt measure their durability though... and didnt the Anti Monitor of SCW harm a Guardian with an attack that was less than a Planet Buster blast before anyways... I recall it during that final battle in SCW when the Guardians were attacking him... so its not totally out of the Question that a Massive Planet Buster attack could have killed the Guardians and Oa... also since you say that they were just outside of Oa in space then its even more likely to see the attack as simply a Big Planet Buster...  
 
even if ION was holding back.. what is there to say that he is more powerful than the Surfer still...Silver Surfer held back a lot in his day... and accomplished incredible things then... even this ION overloading Nero doesnt seem all that out of reach for the Surfer since he is a Quality Energy / Matter Manipulator... and the Guardians claiming that he is near his Original ION incarnation power in this form doesnt hold much merit to me... especially since there arent many things to back that up... 
#46 Posted by Sexy Merc (42460 posts) - - Show Bio
@King Saturn said:
" who is to say the Guardians are immune to Planet Buster attacks though... fighting and harming Superman Prime and Anti Monitor are offensive attacks... that doesnt measure their durability though... and didnt the Anti Monitor of SCW harm a Guardian with an attack that was less than a Planet Buster blast before anyways... I recall it during that final battle in SCW when the Guardians were attacking him... so its not totally out of the Question that a Massive Planet Buster attack could have killed the Guardians and Oa... also since you say that they were just outside of Oa in space then its even more likely to see the attack as simply a Big Planet Buster...  
 
even if ION was holding back.. what is there to say that he is more powerful than the Surfer still...Silver Surfer held back a lot in his day... and accomplished incredible things then... even this ION overloading Nero doesnt seem all that out of reach for the Surfer since he is a Quality Energy / Matter Manipulator... and the Guardians claiming that he is near his Original ION incarnation power in this form doesnt hold much merit to me... especially since there arent many things to back that up...  "
Only one Guardian got a minor burn from the Anti-Monitor. She wasn't killed. What about the displays or durability during Nekron's first run while he was with Krona? They were ripping apart space and the Guardians' force fields were durable enough to black their blasts while they were tearing through fabrics of space. Nekron amped Krona during the Krona war to levels exceeding the Guardians and Guardians are already well above planet busters, and they were still durable enough to create shields/force fields for the Corps during the war. They are durable enough to withstand planet busters.
 
He didn't have much feats due to his limited time. Surfer held back sure, but he had like 40 years to show us everything. The overloading feat doesn't have anything to do with manipulation. He simply released a very small fraction of his power and Nero was incapacitated. Could Surfer do the same things? More than likely. Based on feats, Hand of God showed more impressive feats. Ganthet would be a better judge of power considering the cosmics he's analyzed and face before and he was the only Guardian that knew of most of Kyle's actions during Hand of God. Holding back more than a pacifist Surfer and not enough feats is the only thing hurting Kyle, but I'm not trying to convince anyone. In m opinion, he would beat Surfer.
#47 Posted by King Saturn (218246 posts) - - Show Bio
@Sexy Merc said:
" @King Saturn said:
" who is to say the Guardians are immune to Planet Buster attacks though... fighting and harming Superman Prime and Anti Monitor are offensive attacks... that doesnt measure their durability though... and didnt the Anti Monitor of SCW harm a Guardian with an attack that was less than a Planet Buster blast before anyways... I recall it during that final battle in SCW when the Guardians were attacking him... so its not totally out of the Question that a Massive Planet Buster attack could have killed the Guardians and Oa... also since you say that they were just outside of Oa in space then its even more likely to see the attack as simply a Big Planet Buster...  
 
even if ION was holding back.. what is there to say that he is more powerful than the Surfer still...Silver Surfer held back a lot in his day... and accomplished incredible things then... even this ION overloading Nero doesnt seem all that out of reach for the Surfer since he is a Quality Energy / Matter Manipulator... and the Guardians claiming that he is near his Original ION incarnation power in this form doesnt hold much merit to me... especially since there arent many things to back that up...  "
Only one Guardian got a minor burn from the Anti-Monitor. She wasn't killed. What about the displays or durability during Nekron's first run while he was with Krona? They were ripping apart space and the Guardians' force fields were durable enough to black their blasts while they were tearing through fabrics of space. Nekron amped Krona during the Krona war to levels exceeding the Guardians and Guardians are already well above planet busters, and they were still durable enough to create shields/force fields for the Corps during the war. They are durable enough to withstand planet busters.   
  He didn't have much feats due to his limited time. Surfer held back sure, but he had like 40 years to show us everything. The overloading feat doesn't have anything to do with manipulation. He simply released a very small fraction of his power and Nero was incapacitated. Could Surfer do the same things? More than likely. Based on feats, Hand of God showed more impressive feats. Ganthet would be a better judge of power considering the cosmics he's analyzed and face before and he was the only Guardian that knew of most of Kyle's actions during Hand of God. Holding back more than a pacifist Surfer and not enough feats is the only thing hurting Kyle, but I'm not trying to convince anyone. In m opinion, he would beat Surfer. "
1. Yes... but she was hurt by an attack from a lackluster Anti Monitor that was Not a Planet Buster... thats whats key here...  
2. what the Guardians did during the Nekron run was more a display of Great Energy Manipulation than it was durability... their Force Fields held up against Massive Energy Attacks... but that doesnt give us an indication of how durable they are... just their force fields... so even though they could block massive attacks from Krona with Force Fields... based on what happened during the Sinestro Corps War their physical bodies can be harmed by Energy Blasts less than what their shields can hold up against... but then even if we assumed that the blast from Nero is beyond a Planet Buster... how much stronger ??? and is it feasible to really believe that Nero could generate an attack that really could have wiped out all of the Guardians and Oa together ? he is that powerful ?  
 3. The Overloading Feat has nothing to do with Energy Manipulation ??? How is that... even if he simply Projected a Weak Attack at Nero... thats still a part of Energy Manipulation... since Energy Projection falls under Energy Manipulation in general... and I thought Hand of God was the Original ION... not this version of ION... now if Original ION is what you were aiming to use here... then uh... 
#48 Posted by Sexy Merc (42460 posts) - - Show Bio
@King Saturn said:
" @Sexy Merc said:
" @King Saturn said:
" who is to say the Guardians are immune to Planet Buster attacks though... fighting and harming Superman Prime and Anti Monitor are offensive attacks... that doesnt measure their durability though... and didnt the Anti Monitor of SCW harm a Guardian with an attack that was less than a Planet Buster blast before anyways... I recall it during that final battle in SCW when the Guardians were attacking him... so its not totally out of the Question that a Massive Planet Buster attack could have killed the Guardians and Oa... also since you say that they were just outside of Oa in space then its even more likely to see the attack as simply a Big Planet Buster...  
 
even if ION was holding back.. what is there to say that he is more powerful than the Surfer still...Silver Surfer held back a lot in his day... and accomplished incredible things then... even this ION overloading Nero doesnt seem all that out of reach for the Surfer since he is a Quality Energy / Matter Manipulator... and the Guardians claiming that he is near his Original ION incarnation power in this form doesnt hold much merit to me... especially since there arent many things to back that up...  "
Only one Guardian got a minor burn from the Anti-Monitor. She wasn't killed. What about the displays or durability during Nekron's first run while he was with Krona? They were ripping apart space and the Guardians' force fields were durable enough to black their blasts while they were tearing through fabrics of space. Nekron amped Krona during the Krona war to levels exceeding the Guardians and Guardians are already well above planet busters, and they were still durable enough to create shields/force fields for the Corps during the war. They are durable enough to withstand planet busters.   
  He didn't have much feats due to his limited time. Surfer held back sure, but he had like 40 years to show us everything. The overloading feat doesn't have anything to do with manipulation. He simply released a very small fraction of his power and Nero was incapacitated. Could Surfer do the same things? More than likely. Based on feats, Hand of God showed more impressive feats. Ganthet would be a better judge of power considering the cosmics he's analyzed and face before and he was the only Guardian that knew of most of Kyle's actions during Hand of God. Holding back more than a pacifist Surfer and not enough feats is the only thing hurting Kyle, but I'm not trying to convince anyone. In m opinion, he would beat Surfer. "
1. Yes... but she was hurt by an attack from a lackluster Anti Monitor that was Not a Planet Buster... thats whats key here...  
2. what the Guardians did during the Nekron run was more a display of Great Energy Manipulation than it was durability... their Force Fields held up against Massive Energy Attacks... but that doesnt give us an indication of how durable they are... just their force fields... so even though they could block massive attacks from Krona with Force Fields... based on what happened during the Sinestro Corps War their physical bodies can be harmed by Energy Blasts less than what their shields can hold up against... but then even if we assumed that the blast from Nero is beyond a Planet Buster... how much stronger ??? and is it feasible to really believe that Nero could generate an attack that really could have wiped out all of the Guardians and Oa together ? he is that powerful ?  
 3. The Overloading Feat has nothing to do with Energy Manipulation ??? How is that... even if he simply Projected a Weak Attack at Nero... thats still a part of Energy Manipulation... since Energy Projection falls under Energy Manipulation in general... and I thought Hand of God was the Original ION... not this version of ION... now if Original ION is what you were aiming to use here... then uh...  "
1) SCW Anti-Monitor may have not been it's old self but it's still much stronger than Surfer and the attacks he dishes out are much more powerful. Surfer can bust a planet but not all of his blasts are at this level.
2) The key here is that Nekron amped up Krona to levels exceeding the Guardians and planet busting is elementary for Guardians. With Krona's already decent stats, The Guardians were still creating shields/force fields against his attacks. Their physical bodies can be harmed but so can Green Lanterns. They have auto-shields that are quick enough to black attacks from beings on Krona's level after bring amped. Nero was a human bombs set to blow up the Guardians and Oa once he made contact with them, it wasn't entirely reliant on his own powers.
3) He did use energy and I guess you can call it manipulation. I think there's a better word to describe what he did though. Energy something but not manipulation or projection, but it's the same category. Hand of God was the first ION, I never said he was this version. You said that his levels weren't the same as back then and I was just comparing their feats. If I was  using him it would be spite as he'd solo everyone in this match instantly.
#49 Posted by GreenLantern555 (2260 posts) - - Show Bio

It a tough fight Lanterns win. Not just because of ION because like stated before this is Kyle's second appearance= not as powerful. The Starheart is what will give the GLC an edge here considering it's the Starheart. I would go further in analysis but Sexy Merc and King Saturn are going at it ;-)

#50 Posted by Sexy Merc (42460 posts) - - Show Bio
@GreenLantern555: I really wish some people knew how to write strong characters to their potential. Kyle was holding back more than a pacifist Surfer at a daycare. They didn't let him let loose and all and even then he was destroying moons, taking out armies, controlling/manipulating energies of Tangent Flash/Atom...etc. I think he could very well be placed on the same level as his old ION self if he was written correctly.