• 53 results
  • 1
  • 2
#1 Posted by 12marvel12 (995 posts) - - Show Bio

2 fights 
 
FIGHT 1
NO PREP 
Fight is in New York City building tops 
They come equiped with their STANDARD weapons and tools 
 
FIGHT 2 
Straight up fist fight 
 
who wins and why?

#2 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
Green Goblin, in both fights. Unless Batman pulls out some short of exotic equipment to manage and use the environment to incapacitate Norman in the first fight. In the second, the Goblin kills him in one shot.
Moderator
#3 Posted by Aronmorales (9434 posts) - - Show Bio

THANK YOU! I'm sick of prep time!
 
Fight 1. Goblin, better suited on a daily bases.
Fight 2. It'd be tough, but batman.

#4 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
@Aronmorales said:
" Fight 2. It'd be tough, but batman. "
 
It won't. The Goblin has refelexes comparable to Spider-man, durability to take hits from him on a regular basis, and 9 tons strength on top of it. He kills Batman.
Moderator
#5 Posted by Aronmorales (9434 posts) - - Show Bio
@Morpheus_ said:
" @Aronmorales said:
" Fight 2. It'd be tough, but batman. "
 
It won't. The Goblin has refelexes comparable to Spider-man, durability to take hits from him on a regular basis, and 9 tons strength on top of it. He kills Batman. "
...what the heck why not.
#6 Edited by 12marvel12 (995 posts) - - Show Bio
@Aronmorales:
dont forget electro's gloves.... but i thoght maybe batman might have some counter for the reflexes and shocking gloves but i guess not
#7 Posted by Aronmorales (9434 posts) - - Show Bio
@12marvel12 said:
" @Aronmorales: dont forget electro's gloves.... but i thoght maybe batman might have some counter for the reflexes and shocking gloves but i guess not "
Batman strikes me as the type of hero to have basic necessities, and a little bit extra.
#8 Posted by 12marvel12 (995 posts) - - Show Bio
@Aronmorales:
i think the Green Goblin is just too much for batman.. i just wanted to see if anybody actually thought Batman could beat Gobbie
#9 Posted by Ganseki (108 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman

#10 Posted by Baldy (5021 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman wins both.

#11 Posted by Dane (10596 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman with a can of Goblin repellent.

#12 Posted by vuviper (5530 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dane said:
" Batman with a can of Goblin repellent. "
you forgot the Bat-prefix. Bat-goblin repellent
#13 Posted by Dane (10596 posts) - - Show Bio
@vuviper said:
" @Dane said:
" Batman with a can of Goblin repellent. "
you forgot the Bat-prefix. Bat-goblin repellent "
oh of course. Like Bat-shark repellent.
#14 Posted by vuviper (5530 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dane said:
" @vuviper said:
" @Dane said:
" Batman with a can of Goblin repellent. "
you forgot the Bat-prefix. Bat-goblin repellent "
oh of course. Like Bat-shark repellent. "
Exactly! :-)
#15 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio

Shouldn't it be Goblin Bat-repellent? 
 
Or Bat-Goblin Bat-repellent. The more Bat, the greater the Bat-power.

#16 Posted by vuviper (5530 posts) - - Show Bio
@AtPhantom said:
" Shouldn't it be Goblin Bat-repellent?   Or Bat-Goblin Bat-repellent. The more Bat, the greater the Bat-power. "
now you're just trying to confuse me
#17 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio
@vuviper said:
" @AtPhantom said:
" Shouldn't it be Goblin Bat-repellent?   Or Bat-Goblin Bat-repellent. The more Bat, the greater the Bat-power. "
now you're just trying to confuse me "
Always :P
#18 Posted by Baldy (5021 posts) - - Show Bio

Seriously though he's beaten stronger foes. Not to mention theres no way in hell Goblin wins the first fight.

#19 Posted by mavfan626 (4121 posts) - - Show Bio

im gonna say goblin in first then batman in second

#20 Posted by vuviper (5530 posts) - - Show Bio
@Morpheus_ said:
" Green Goblin, in both fights. Unless Batman pulls out some short of exotic equipment to manage and use the environment to incapacitate Norman in the first fight. In the second, the Goblin kills him in one shot. "
1 shot morph? not sure if Bat's would go down that easy. his armor should protect him enough not to be oneshoted. Then again Bronze tiger one shoted him once.... lol
#21 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
@vuviper said:
" @Morpheus_ said:
" Green Goblin, in both fights. Unless Batman pulls out some short of exotic equipment to manage and use the environment to incapacitate Norman in the first fight. In the second, the Goblin kills him in one shot. "
1 shot morph? not sure if Bat's would go down that easy. his armor should protect him enough not to be oneshoted. Then again Bronze tiger one shoted him once.... lol "
Straight fist fight, no equipment, means no armor, viper...
Moderator
#22 Posted by vuviper (5530 posts) - - Show Bio
@Morpheus_ said:
" @vuviper said:
" @Morpheus_ said:
" Green Goblin, in both fights. Unless Batman pulls out some short of exotic equipment to manage and use the environment to incapacitate Norman in the first fight. In the second, the Goblin kills him in one shot. "
1 shot morph? not sure if Bat's would go down that easy. his armor should protect him enough not to be oneshoted. Then again Bronze tiger one shoted him once.... lol "
Straight fist fight, no equipment, means no armor, viper... "
whoops
#23 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
@vuviper said:
" @Morpheus_ said:
" @vuviper said:
" @Morpheus_ said:
" Green Goblin, in both fights. Unless Batman pulls out some short of exotic equipment to manage and use the environment to incapacitate Norman in the first fight. In the second, the Goblin kills him in one shot. "
1 shot morph? not sure if Bat's would go down that easy. his armor should protect him enough not to be oneshoted. Then again Bronze tiger one shoted him once.... lol "
Straight fist fight, no equipment, means no armor, viper... "
whoops "
All is forgive, viper, all is forgive. ; )
Moderator
#24 Posted by vuviper (5530 posts) - - Show Bio
@Morpheus_ said:
" @Aronmorales said:
" Fight 2. It'd be tough, but batman. "
 
It won't. The Goblin has refelexes comparable to Spider-man, durability to take hits from him on a regular basis, and 9 tons strength on top of it. He kills Batman. "
While it's true Goblin is much stronger than Bat's. Bat's is still capable of delivering blows that would smash a normal human's skull, break tree's in half, break through concrete walls, break down steel doors, or crack bazooka proof glass. This in combination with his knowledge of all the most lethal nerve strikes and pressure points means that Goblin doesn't want to get hit by Batman just as much as Batman doesn't want to get hit by him. It is also true that Goblin has enhanced reflexes, Batman's reflexes are quite impressive though, and because Goblin doesn't have spider sense, the difference may not be as great. Batman has the agiliy and reflexes to dodge sniper bullet's after they've been fire, to catch multiple rapid fire tranq darts, to dodge 5000rounds/minute bullet fire from close range, to deflect automatic bullet fire, dodge bullets from point blank etc. He's also trained with David cain and is able to read body language similar to shiva and cassie but to a much lesser extent. Still, I wouldn't say that would make up for it. But the fact that Batman is a much more skilled MA fighter than Goblin should make up for the rest of the reflex/agility difference. Not saying Batman would win here, but I don't think it's as easy as you made it sound.
#25 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
@vuviper said:

" @Morpheus_ said:

" @Aronmorales said:
" Fight 2. It'd be tough, but batman. "
 
It won't. The Goblin has refelexes comparable to Spider-man, durability to take hits from him on a regular basis, and 9 tons strength on top of it. He kills Batman. "
While it's true Goblin is much stronger than Bat's. Bat's is still capable of delivering blows that would smash a normal human's skull, break tree's in half, break through concrete walls, break down steel doors, or crack bazooka proof glass. This in combination with his knowledge of all the most lethal nerve strikes and pressure points means that Goblin doesn't want to get hit by Batman just as much as Batman doesn't want to get hit by him. It is also true that Goblin has enhanced reflexes, Batman's reflexes are quite impressive though, and because Goblin doesn't have spider sense, the difference may not be as great. Batman has the agiliy and reflexes to dodge sniper bullet's after they've been fire, to catch multiple rapid fire tranq darts, to dodge 5000rounds/minute bullet fire from close range, to deflect automatic bullet fire, dodge bullets from point blank etc. He's also trained with David cain and is able to read body language similar to shiva and cassie but to a much lesser extent. 
 
Still, I wouldn't say that would make up for it. But the fact that Batman is a much more skilled MA fighter than Goblin should make up for the rest of the reflex/agility difference. 
 
Not saying Batman would win here, but I don't think it's as easy as you made it sound. "
 

All these are quite impressive, but I never questioned Batman's efficiency when it comes to his skill, or pure strength (by the way, I've seen your analysis for the bazooka proof glass, so you may want to remove that from there, as implausible). My problem is his durability. On this occasion, he will have to face off against someone whose punches are sufficient to hurt Spider-man, and Spider-man is a being that consistently endures severe hits from opponents much stronger than himself and explosions of severe magnitude, with just his costume on, no enhancements, or equipment.
 
And while Batman's speed feats are impressive in their own right, we have seen fighters of his own, or lesser speed/agility level keeping up with him. That may be due to the plot, of course (much like why Spider-man gets hit by people who shouldn't even come anywhere near him - but, at least, he is a confirmed meta, but I digress), but that prompts me to believe that speed won't be such a considerable factor in this fight, for the single reason that if both of them retain their morals, Batman would take it easy on the Goblin, while Norman would mercilessly batter him with everything he has, right from the start. And while Bruce's pain endurance is considerable, once he starts getting hit it from someone who can bench press 9-10 tons, I don't think he could realistically retain consciousness for long, in order to apply his far superior skill and go for nerve strikes, or something of that nature.

 
I'm just having a hard time believing a human can withstand a force of that magnitude, that is all. I was being too absolute in my original statement because I was partially influenced by my thoughts on what would happen in real life, more so that use the comic rules, where people magically sustain that, and more.

Moderator
#26 Edited by vuviper (5530 posts) - - Show Bio
@Morpheus_ said:

" @vuviper said:

" @Morpheus_ said:

" @Aronmorales said:
" Fight 2. It'd be tough, but batman. "
 
It won't. The Goblin has refelexes comparable to Spider-man, durability to take hits from him on a regular basis, and 9 tons strength on top of it. He kills Batman. "
While it's true Goblin is much stronger than Bat's. Bat's is still capable of delivering blows that would smash a normal human's skull, break tree's in half, break through concrete walls, break down steel doors, or crack bazooka proof glass. This in combination with his knowledge of all the most lethal nerve strikes and pressure points means that Goblin doesn't want to get hit by Batman just as much as Batman doesn't want to get hit by him. It is also true that Goblin has enhanced reflexes, Batman's reflexes are quite impressive though, and because Goblin doesn't have spider sense, the difference may not be as great. Batman has the agiliy and reflexes to dodge sniper bullet's after they've been fire, to catch multiple rapid fire tranq darts, to dodge 5000rounds/minute bullet fire from close range, to deflect automatic bullet fire, dodge bullets from point blank etc. He's also trained with David cain and is able to read body language similar to shiva and cassie but to a much lesser extent. 
 
Still, I wouldn't say that would make up for it. But the fact that Batman is a much more skilled MA fighter than Goblin should make up for the rest of the reflex/agility difference. 
 
Not saying Batman would win here, but I don't think it's as easy as you made it sound. "
 

All these are quite impressive, but I never questioned Batman's efficiency when it comes to his skill, or pure strength (by the way, I've seen your analysis for the bazooka proof glass, so you may want to remove that from there, as implausible). My problem is his durability. On this occasion, he will have to face off against someone whose punches are sufficient to hurt Spider-man, and Spider-man is a being that consistently endures severe hits from opponents much stronger than himself and explosions of severe magnitude, with just his costume on, no enhancements, or equipment.
 
And while Batman's speed feats are impressive in their own right, we have seen fighters of his own, or lesser speed/agility level keeping up with him. That may be due to the plot, of course (much like why Spider-man gets hit by people who shouldn't even come anywhere near him - but, at least, he is a confirmed meta, but I digress), but that prompts me to believe that speed won't be such a considerable factor in this fight, for the single reason that if both of them retain their morals, Batman would take it easy on the Goblin, while Norman would mercilessly batter him with everything he has, right from the start. And while Bruce's pain endurance is considerable, once he starts getting hit it from someone who can bench press 9-10 tons, I don't think he could realistically retain consciousness for long, in order to apply his far superior skill and go for nerve strikes, or something of that nature.

 
I'm just having a hard time believing a human can withstand a force of that magnitude, that is all. I was being too absolute in my original statement because I was partially influenced by my thoughts on what would happen in real life, more so that use the comic rules, where people magically sustain that, and more.

"
All very true. This fight depends on if character morals apply. And if the characters know who they're going up against. If character morals apply, Batman won't go for kill strikes unless he already knows that Gobby could survive them, those are the only times he does use the kill strike, and power hits, against people with invulnerability or great durability. Batman's durability is a problem and I don't see him taking more than a couple hits without dying since he doesn't have his armor, however, I was making the argument that if Batman was punching with the power he is able to, and he is going for kill strikes, (both of which are determined by the factors mentioned earlier) Goblin could similarly go down in just a couple hits.  So I see this as a very short battle (not necessarily timewise, but number of hits wise) I don't see more than 5 blows landing before one of them goes down. 
 
PS about the Bazooka thing, I take is as a MA feat more than a strength feat, same with most of the other ones I listed. I take Batgirl breaking through quarts as an MA feat as well and take Karate Kid breaking through however many kilotons of ice as an MA feat. The fact that in all three instances the difficulty of the tasks was stressed either by narrator, witness, or the person performing the feat, makes me reluctant to just throw it out. If it had been a feat where they just didn't think about it before righting it, it's be a different story, like Bane pushing over that statue. If you still think it implausible (by comic book standards) please let me know because I value your opinion.
#27 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
@vuviper said:

" All very true. This fight depends on if character morals apply. And if the characters know who they're going up against. If character morals apply, Batman won't go for kill strikes unless he already knows that Gobby could survive them, those are the only times he does use the kill strike, and power hits, against people with invulnerability or great durability. Batman's durability is a problem and I don't see him taking more than a couple hits without dying since he doesn't have his armor, however, I was making the argument that if Batman was punching with the power he is able to, and he is going for kill strikes, (both of which are determined by the factors mentioned earlier) Goblin could similarly go down in just a couple hits.  So I see this as a very short battle (not necessarily timewise, but number of hits wise) I don't see more than 5 blows landing before one of them goes down.   
 
PS about the Bazooka thing, I take is as a MA feat more than a strength feat, same with most of the other ones I listed. I take Batgirl breaking through quarts as an MA feat as well and take Karate Kid breaking through however many kilotons of ice as an MA feat. The fact that in all three instances the difficulty of the tasks was stressed either by narrator, witness, or the person performing the feat, makes me reluctant to just throw it out. If it had been a feat where they just didn't think about it before righting it, it's be a different story, like Bane pushing over that statue. If you still think it implausible (by comic book standards) please let me know because I value your opinion. "

 
 

Based on battles forum rules, both characters retain their morals, but do fight at the best of their ability. Now, I realise, that this rule, on occasion, and this occasion is one of them, sounds, and is, antithetic. As for the characters having prior knowledge for each other, I can't remember if the rules state anything about it (by the way, the general rules apply strictly if the OP doesn't give explicit rules of his own, which is basically the case here). I am not sure if the Goblin would go down in a couple of hits, but since you consider some of Batman's most impressive strength feats more so as feats of skill, rather than actual strength. then allow me to retain a more neutral view, because I am not a MA master, to actually know if through extensive training any of those feats would be humanly possible. Because breaking a tree in half, or punching through a brick wall is one thing, but ripping steel doors, or crack bazzoka glass is another, or, at least, that is how I perceive it to be (or, your presentation of that feat was just too convincing for me  to think of it as a MA feat, so pride yourself about it).  To add to this, the Goblin's healing factor is superior to Spider-man and it was that factor of the goblin serum to which it was attributed why the Goblin survived after being impaled with his own glider to the chest.
 
I haven't done extensive reading on Karate Kid, but many of the things he has achieved sound plausible only because he is knowledgeable in virtually all forms of MA up until the 31st century. People tend to rationalize things based on their own experience and on what they think is humanly possible/impossible to achieve. As a parallel, let me say it is basically why the mind rejects more humanoid looking CGI figures (like the Hulk) as unreal, but tends to find others (Tranformers, p.e.) far more realistic: attention - I do not mean people believe either of them is possible to happen in real life, but they do find it easier to picture something that is not human altogether, rather than picturing the distorted image of a human being. For the same reason, I have a problem picturing people that are presented as human/peak human, at best, doing things so far off their supposed range. It's comic rules, and I accept them, hell, I have even applauded them, but in a battle situation, I have a hard time applying them. So, Karate Kid enjoys the benefit of doubt when he tangles with Kryptonians, because people think "who knows, if someone knows every form of MA from present, to 10 centuries in the future, MA knowledge may have progressed to a point were it will allow a normal human to be realistically capable of such feats" and go along with it. But, Batman, or Batgirl don't have that privilege. That benefit, if you will. Based on what we've seen, Goblin and Batman aren't much different, physically. With Batman's vastly superior edge in skill, Bruce should take it. And then you realise one is a normal human, and the other is Spider-man level in almost every aspect, and with an even superior healing factor, and you are like, "What is going on?"

 
Excuse the long post.

Moderator
#28 Posted by vuviper (5530 posts) - - Show Bio
@Morpheus_ said:
" @vuviper said:

" All very true. This fight depends on if character morals apply. And if the characters know who they're going up against. If character morals apply, Batman won't go for kill strikes unless he already knows that Gobby could survive them, those are the only times he does use the kill strike, and power hits, against people with invulnerability or great durability. Batman's durability is a problem and I don't see him taking more than a couple hits without dying since he doesn't have his armor, however, I was making the argument that if Batman was punching with the power he is able to, and he is going for kill strikes, (both of which are determined by the factors mentioned earlier) Goblin could similarly go down in just a couple hits.  So I see this as a very short battle (not necessarily timewise, but number of hits wise) I don't see more than 5 blows landing before one of them goes down.   
 
PS about the Bazooka thing, I take is as a MA feat more than a strength feat, same with most of the other ones I listed. I take Batgirl breaking through quarts as an MA feat as well and take Karate Kid breaking through however many kilotons of ice as an MA feat. The fact that in all three instances the difficulty of the tasks was stressed either by narrator, witness, or the person performing the feat, makes me reluctant to just throw it out. If it had been a feat where they just didn't think about it before righting it, it's be a different story, like Bane pushing over that statue. If you still think it implausible (by comic book standards) please let me know because I value your opinion. "

 
 

Based on battles forum rules, both characters retain their morals, but do fight at the best of their ability. Now, I realise, that this rule, on occasion, and this occasion is one of them, sounds, and is, antithetic. As for the characters having prior knowledge for each other, I can't remember if the rules state anything about it (by the way, the general rules apply strictly if the OP doesn't give explicit rules of his own, which is basically the case here). I am not sure if the Goblin would go down in a couple of hits, but since you consider some of Batman's most impressive strength feats more so as feats of skill, rather than actual strength. then allow me to retain a more neutral view, because I am not a MA master, to actually know if through extensive training any of those feats would be humanly possible. Because breaking a tree in half, or punching through a brick wall is one thing, but ripping steel doors, or crack bazzoka glass is another, or, at least, that is how I perceive it to be (or, your presentation of that feat was just too convincing for me  to think of it as a MA feat, so pride yourself about it).  To add to this, the Goblin's healing factor is superior to Spider-man and it was that factor of the goblin serum to which it was attributed why the Goblin survived after being impaled with his own glider to the chest.
 
I haven't done extensive reading on Karate Kid, but many of the things he has achieved sound plausible only because he is knowledgeable in virtually all forms of MA up until the 31st century. People tend to rationalize things based on their own experience and on what they think is humanly possible/impossible to achieve. As a parallel, let me say it is basically why the mind rejects more humanoid looking CGI figures (like the Hulk) as unreal, but tends to find others (Tranformers, p.e.) far more realistic: attention - I do not mean people believe either of them is possible to happen in real life, but they do find it easier to picture something that is not human altogether, rather than picturing the distorted image of a human being. For the same reason, I have a problem picturing people that are presented as human/peak human, at best, doing things so far off their supposed range. It's comic rules, and I accept them, hell, I have even applauded them, but in a battle situation, I have a hard time applying them. So, Karate Kid enjoys the benefit of doubt when he tangles with Kryptonians, because people think "who knows, if someone knows every form of MA from present, to 10 centuries in the future, MA knowledge may have progressed to a point were it will allow a normal human to be realistically capable of such feats" and go along with it. But, Batman, or Batgirl don't have that privilege. That benefit, if you will. Based on what we've seen, Goblin and Batman aren't much different, physically. With Batman's vastly superior edge in skill, Bruce should take it. And then you realise one is a normal human, and the other is Spider-man level in almost every aspect, and with an even superior healing factor, and you are like, "What is going on?"

 
Excuse the long post.

"
I wasn't aware that Goblins healing factor would be fast enough to effect the outcome of the battle, that does change things, but only if the battle goes one long with each opponent dodging the other. 
 
I might be more inclined to accept superhuman feats as being attributed to MA skills than you not because I'm actually very familiar with MA, but I've seen much fiction that has MA as the explanation for seemingly superhuman abilities. Especially fiction centered around Ninjas and what not. If a Ninja can do all these crazy things, what would happen if you had a ninja that mastered ALL(terrestrial) MA (ie Batman). Which is just as impossible as KK's master of everything in that century, if not moreso because we don't know what type of technological, health science, and neurological  advances we would have by then. I think it comes from people seeing MA's in real life doing things they never could like breaking multiple concrete slabs with their head, and then taking it to the next level with ninja's and such, and then going beyond that with Batman and Batgirl who are much superior to ninjas, and then even further once you get to Karate Kid. Of course I don't really believe (even if it was possible to be a master of all martial arts) that you'd be able to the things Batman does, but I find them feasible by comic book standards.
 
I actually made a thread about that here, that no one replied to. What to do when one person has "superhuman status" while the other one has "superhuman feats" Deathstroke is said to have the strength of 10 men, do I assume he's stronger any human? Even if that human has more impressive feats?
#29 Edited by Baldy (5021 posts) - - Show Bio
@Morpheus_ said:

" @vuviper said:

" All very true. This fight depends on if character morals apply. And if the characters know who they're going up against. If character morals apply, Batman won't go for kill strikes unless he already knows that Gobby could survive them, those are the only times he does use the kill strike, and power hits, against people with invulnerability or great durability. Batman's durability is a problem and I don't see him taking more than a couple hits without dying since he doesn't have his armor, however, I was making the argument that if Batman was punching with the power he is able to, and he is going for kill strikes, (both of which are determined by the factors mentioned earlier) Goblin could similarly go down in just a couple hits.  So I see this as a very short battle (not necessarily timewise, but number of hits wise) I don't see more than 5 blows landing before one of them goes down.   
 
PS about the Bazooka thing, I take is as a MA feat more than a strength feat, same with most of the other ones I listed. I take Batgirl breaking through quarts as an MA feat as well and take Karate Kid breaking through however many kilotons of ice as an MA feat. The fact that in all three instances the difficulty of the tasks was stressed either by narrator, witness, or the person performing the feat, makes me reluctant to just throw it out. If it had been a feat where they just didn't think about it before righting it, it's be a different story, like Bane pushing over that statue. If you still think it implausible (by comic book standards) please let me know because I value your opinion. "

 
 

Based on battles forum rules, both characters retain their morals, but do fight at the best of their ability. Now, I realise, that this rule, on occasion, and this occasion is one of them, sounds, and is, antithetic. As for the characters having prior knowledge for each other, I can't remember if the rules state anything about it (by the way, the general rules apply strictly if the OP doesn't give explicit rules of his own, which is basically the case here). I am not sure if the Goblin would go down in a couple of hits, but since you consider some of Batman's most impressive strength feats more so as feats of skill, rather than actual strength. then allow me to retain a more neutral view, because I am not a MA master, to actually know if through extensive training any of those feats would be humanly possible. Because breaking a tree in half, or punching through a brick wall is one thing, but ripping steel doors, or crack bazzoka glass is another, or, at least, that is how I perceive it to be (or, your presentation of that feat was just too convincing for me  to think of it as a MA feat, so pride yourself about it).  To add to this, the Goblin's healing factor is superior to Spider-man and it was that factor of the goblin serum to which it was attributed why the Goblin survived after being impaled with his own glider to the chest.
 
I haven't done extensive reading on Karate Kid, but many of the things he has achieved sound plausible only because he is knowledgeable in virtually all forms of MA up until the 31st century. People tend to rationalize things based on their own experience and on what they think is humanly possible/impossible to achieve. As a parallel, let me say it is basically why the mind rejects more humanoid looking CGI figures (like the Hulk) as unreal, but tends to find others (Tranformers, p.e.) far more realistic: attention - I do not mean people believe either of them is possible to happen in real life, but they do find it easier to picture something that is not human altogether, rather than picturing the distorted image of a human being. For the same reason, I have a problem picturing people that are presented as human/peak human, at best, doing things so far off their supposed range. It's comic rules, and I accept them, hell, I have even applauded them, but in a battle situation, I have a hard time applying them. So, Karate Kid enjoys the benefit of doubt when he tangles with Kryptonians, because people think "who knows, if someone knows every form of MA from present, to 10 centuries in the future, MA knowledge may have progressed to a point were it will allow a normal human to be realistically capable of such feats" and go along with it. But, Batman, or Batgirl don't have that privilege. That benefit, if you will. Based on what we've seen, Goblin and Batman aren't much different, physically. With Batman's vastly superior edge in skill, Bruce should take it. And then you realise one is a normal human, and the other is Spider-man level in almost every aspect, and with an even superior healing factor, and you are like, "What is going on?"

 
Excuse the long post.

"
Daredevil put down Wolverine with a pressure point attack and his healing factor is one hell of a lot better than GG's. GG is stronger and faster than Wolverine, but Wolvie is the better fighter. Personally I think if DD can do somthing like this then so can Batman... who I consider a better fighter.
 
Besides I don't see Batman holding back at all, sure he won't kill, but he's pretty brutal on a regular basis.
#30 Posted by vuviper (5530 posts) - - Show Bio
@Baldy said:
"Daredevil put down Wolverine with a pressure point attack and his healing factor is one hell of a lot better than Wolverine's. GG is stronger and faster than Wolverine, but Wolvie is the better fighter. Personally I think if DD can do somthing like this then so can Batman... who I consider a better fighter.  Besides I don't see Batman holding back at all, sure he won't kill, but he's pretty brutal on a regular basis. "
Thanks for the pressure point healing factor knowledge.
 
Yes batman is always brutal, but how brutal depends on whether morals apply or whether he knows that Goblin is more durable. Normally he'd be brutal but not enough for it to harm Goblin much, but if he knew or if morals didn't apply, he could go straight for the kill blows.
#31 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
@vuviper said:

" I wasn't aware that Goblins healing factor would be fast enough to effect the outcome of the battle, that does change things, but only if the battle goes one long with each opponent dodging the other.   
 
I might be more inclined to accept superhuman feats as being attributed to MA skills than you not because I'm actually very familiar with MA, but I've seen much fiction that has MA as the explanation for seemingly superhuman abilities. Especially fiction centered around Ninjas and what not. If a Ninja can do all these crazy things, what would happen if you had a ninja that mastered ALL(terrestrial) MA (ie Batman). Which is just as impossible as KK's master of everything in that century, if not moreso because we don't know what type of technological, health science, and neurological  advances we would have by then. I think it comes from people seeing MA's in real life doing things they never could like breaking multiple concrete slabs with their head, and then taking it to the next level with ninja's and such, and then going beyond that with Batman and Batgirl who are much superior to ninjas, and then even further once you get to Karate Kid. Of course I don't really believe (even if it was possible to be a master of all martial arts) that you'd be able to the things Batman does, but I find them feasible by comic book standards.  
 
I actually made a thread about that here, that no one replied to. What to do when one person has "superhuman status" while the other one has "superhuman feats" Deathstroke is said to have the strength of 10 men, do I assume he's stronger any human? Even if that human has more impressive feats? "

 

It is fast, and it allows him to sustain wounds that would otherwise be fatal, but the regenerative rate is nowhere near close Wolverine's, or Sabretooth's. 
 
Based on the part in bold: Since that is the reason that to you find those things to be plausible, then yes, by comic standards, I will have to agree.
 
I think everything a character does has a certain degree of feasibility, based on the context of his already established powers and abilities. On the other hand, when a character that is peak human consistently does things beyond what would be his normal stats, then we can't just bypass it. At any case, there is a very thin line on where the one ends, and the other starts.
 
I am not sure if Deathstroke has just the strength of ten men, despite having seen it stated here and there, but I realise you are merely using it as an example, and I think it is unfortunate that your thread passed unnoticed. But, we are both sadly mistaken if we think a definite answer would ever come out of it, but the debate would have been nice to see, and participate in, since all these are highly theoretical. In the end, depending on the side we're on and the case we are making, we can just as easily switch between the two, and that is not unacceptable, for the simple reason that both sides have a fairly reasonable amount of truth in them.

Moderator
#32 Posted by Baldy (5021 posts) - - Show Bio
@vuviper said:
" @Baldy said:
"Daredevil put down Wolverine with a pressure point attack and his healing factor is one hell of a lot better than Wolverine's. GG is stronger and faster than Wolverine, but Wolvie is the better fighter. Personally I think if DD can do somthing like this then so can Batman... who I consider a better fighter.  Besides I don't see Batman holding back at all, sure he won't kill, but he's pretty brutal on a regular basis. "
Thanks for the pressure point healing factor knowledge.  Yes batman is always brutal, but how brutal depends on whether morals apply or whether he knows that Goblin is more durable. Normally he'd be brutal but not enough for it to harm Goblin much, but if he knew or if morals didn't apply, he could go straight for the kill blows. "
It'd be pretty easy to tell that Goblin is atleast very fast when they start fighting, so I don't think he'd be pulling any punches. Remember Batman's reflexes are good enough to grab speedsters, along with his ability to read peoples movements and GG's lack of any real skill it's going to be hard for GG to land any telling blows.
 
This would be a cool fight to watch but I think Batman is just to skillful and knowledgeable in dealing with guys like GG to lose.
#33 Edited by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
@Baldy said:

" Daredevil put down Wolverine with a pressure point attack and his healing factor is one hell of a lot better than GG's. GG is stronger and faster than Wolverine, but Wolvie is the better fighter. Personally I think if DD can do somthing like this then so can Batman... who I consider a better fighter.  Besides I don't see Batman holding back at all, sure he won't kill, but he's pretty brutal on a regular basis. "

 
Others have tried pressure points on Wolverine, and it didn't work. It required consistent applicable force by Elektra even to restrain him, let alone actually knock him out. I'm certain castleking could enlighten us further on this anyway.
 
Besides, where in my posts did I ever say the Goblin would resist a nerve strike?
Moderator
#34 Posted by Baldy (5021 posts) - - Show Bio
@Morpheus_ said:
" @Baldy said:

" Daredevil put down Wolverine with a pressure point attack and his healing factor is one hell of a lot better than GG's. GG is stronger and faster than Wolverine, but Wolvie is the better fighter. Personally I think if DD can do somthing like this then so can Batman... who I consider a better fighter.  Besides I don't see Batman holding back at all, sure he won't kill, but he's pretty brutal on a regular basis. "

 
Others have tried pressure points on Wolverine, and it didn't work. It required consistent applicable force by Elektra even to restrain him, let alone actually knock him out. I'm certain castleking could enlighten us further on this anyway.
 
Besides, where in my posts did I ever say the Goblin would resist a nerve strike?
"
Where in my post did I claim that you said he could? I'm just pointing out ways that he can do it. I'm actually not sure anymore on reflection whether Batman could consistantly win here. If he had his armor and gear I'd say yes but as it is I don't know. The most he could hope for really is 7/10 but I'm thinking it's not going to be more than 5/10.
#35 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
@Baldy said:
" @Morpheus_ said:
" @Baldy said:

" Daredevil put down Wolverine with a pressure point attack and his healing factor is one hell of a lot better than GG's. GG is stronger and faster than Wolverine, but Wolvie is the better fighter. Personally I think if DD can do somthing like this then so can Batman... who I consider a better fighter.  Besides I don't see Batman holding back at all, sure he won't kill, but he's pretty brutal on a regular basis. "

 
Others have tried pressure points on Wolverine, and it didn't work. It required consistent applicable force by Elektra even to restrain him, let alone actually knock him out. I'm certain castleking could enlighten us further on this anyway.
 
Besides, where in my posts did I ever say the Goblin would resist a nerve strike?
"
Where in my post did I claim that you said he could? I'm just pointing out ways that he can do it. I'm actually not sure anymore on reflection whether Batman could consistantly win here. If he had his armor and gear I'd say yes but as it is I don't know. The most he could hope for really is 7/10 but I'm thinking it's not going to be more than 5/10. "
Excuse me, I thought it was directed to me because you quoted me, it's all good.
Moderator
#36 Posted by dbzmeister (73 posts) - - Show Bio

Goblin wins both, he's faster, stronger, almost as intelligent, the glider and pumplkin bombs are just the icing on the cake. I can't believe people are saying Batman could take Goblin in a straight up fist fight Goblin is multiple times stronger and faster (not much difference between him and Spidey I think), Batman's superior technique wouldn't matter he'd be ko'd before he could blink.

#37 Posted by Sufferthorn (1739 posts) - - Show Bio

@Morpheus_ said:

@vuviper said:

" All very true. This fight depends on if character morals apply. And if the characters know who they're going up against. If character morals apply, Batman won't go for kill strikes unless he already knows that Gobby could survive them, those are the only times he does use the kill strike, and power hits, against people with invulnerability or great durability. Batman's durability is a problem and I don't see him taking more than a couple hits without dying since he doesn't have his armor, however, I was making the argument that if Batman was punching with the power he is able to, and he is going for kill strikes, (both of which are determined by the factors mentioned earlier) Goblin could similarly go down in just a couple hits. So I see this as a very short battle (not necessarily timewise, but number of hits wise) I don't see more than 5 blows landing before one of them goes down.

PS about the Bazooka thing, I take is as a MA feat more than a strength feat, same with most of the other ones I listed. I take Batgirl breaking through quarts as an MA feat as well and take Karate Kid breaking through however many kilotons of ice as an MA feat. The fact that in all three instances the difficulty of the tasks was stressed either by narrator, witness, or the person performing the feat, makes me reluctant to just throw it out. If it had been a feat where they just didn't think about it before righting it, it's be a different story, like Bane pushing over that statue. If you still think it implausible (by comic book standards) please let me know because I value your opinion. "


Based on battles forum rules, both characters retain their morals, but do fight at the best of their ability. Now, I realise, that this rule, on occasion, and this occasion is one of them, sounds, and is, antithetic. As for the characters having prior knowledge for each other, I can't remember if the rules state anything about it (by the way, the general rules apply strictly if the OP doesn't give explicit rules of his own, which is basically the case here). I am not sure if the Goblin would go down in a couple of hits, but since you consider some of Batman's most impressive strength feats more so as feats of skill, rather than actual strength. then allow me to retain a more neutral view, because I am not a MA master, to actually know if through extensive training any of those feats would be humanly possible. Because breaking a tree in half, or punching through a brick wall is one thing, but ripping steel doors, or crack bazzoka glass is another, or, at least, that is how I perceive it to be (or, your presentation of that feat was just too convincing for me to think of it as a MA feat, so pride yourself about it). To add to this, the Goblin's healing factor is superior to Spider-man and it was that factor of the goblin serum to which it was attributed why the Goblin survived after being impaled with his own glider to the chest.

I haven't done extensive reading on Karate Kid, but many of the things he has achieved sound plausible only because he is knowledgeable in virtually all forms of MA up until the 31st century. People tend to rationalize things based on their own experience and on what they think is humanly possible/impossible to achieve. As a parallel, let me say it is basically why the mind rejects more humanoid looking CGI figures (like the Hulk) as unreal, but tends to find others (Tranformers, p.e.) far more realistic: attention - I do not mean people believe either of them is possible to happen in real life, but they do find it easier to picture something that is not human altogether, rather than picturing the distorted image of a human being. For the same reason, I have a problem picturing people that are presented as human/peak human, at best, doing things so far off their supposed range. It's comic rules, and I accept them, hell, I have even applauded them, but in a battle situation, I have a hard time applying them. So, Karate Kid enjoys the benefit of doubt when he tangles with Kryptonians, because people think "who knows, if someone knows every form of MA from present, to 10 centuries in the future, MA knowledge may have progressed to a point were it will allow a normal human to be realistically capable of such feats" and go along with it. But, Batman, or Batgirl don't have that privilege. That benefit, if you will. Based on what we've seen, Goblin and Batman aren't much different, physically. With Batman's vastly superior edge in skill, Bruce should take it. And then you realise one is a normal human, and the other is Spider-man level in almost every aspect, and with an even superior healing factor, and you are like, "What is going on?"

Excuse the long post.

This post makes me question the physics of as to why Spider Man isn't ALWAYS having his suit torn up

#38 Edited by THORSON (2344 posts) - - Show Bio

can batman use his flying devices?

#39 Posted by ZeroKillXo1 (47 posts) - - Show Bio

FIGHT 1

NO PREP

Fight is in New York City building tops

They come equiped with their STANDARD weapons and tools

FIGHT 2

Straight up fist fight

"Seriously though he's beaten stronger foes. Not to mention theres no way in hell Goblin wins the first fight."

With Weapons And Tools Batman Wins, Fists On Fists Goblin.

#40 Posted by CaptainDoeo (789 posts) - - Show Bio

lol goblin stomps.

#41 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (5008 posts) - - Show Bio

Another thread where Batman gets stomped and isn't locked.

#42 Posted by momo111191 (246 posts) - - Show Bio

batman both wins both

1. it's in the city goblin wont find batman till the Bats make his own time to prep and finishes him. really all he has to do, is do the standard goblin destruction by knocking him of his glider.

2. Batman has the feats to show him beating people much much tougher than little green over here. umm like every assasin in the DCU where as goblin has the feat to suggest he can beat untrained mall cops. doesn't matter what you have batman has trained to handle it.

#43 Edited by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

Green Goblin takes this.

#44 Edited by Raw_Material (3212 posts) - - Show Bio

My edge goes to Batman.

#45 Edited by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

GG both rounds.

#46 Edited by oceanmaster21 (7812 posts) - - Show Bio

goblin wins

#47 Edited by SSJLozza (1528 posts) - - Show Bio

GG stomps.

#48 Posted by wanonalake (292 posts) - - Show Bio

@dane: @baldy: @ganseki: look at that, three batman wins without a single reasoning. But what do you expect from a batfan. Anyway, goblin owns. First fight, goblin shoves a pumpkin bomb up.bats ass and bats paints the walls red. round two gobs uppercuts bats head off

#49 Posted by SheenLantern (6453 posts) - - Show Bio

Green Goblin stomps. Too strong. Too fast. Too durable.

#50 Edited by Wolverine08 (40622 posts) - - Show Bio

Green Goblin stomps. Too strong. Too fast. Too durable.