#1 Posted by Strider92 (16290 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultimate Green Goblin

Vs

Scarlet Spider

-Morals On

-No prep

-Standard Gear

Location:

#2 Posted by BringnIt (3809 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultimately he gave some epic battles to and was killed by a version of Peter Parker that was inferior to mainstream continuity, who is physically inferior to Kaine. Coupled with Kaine's more loose morality and superior standard gear and he has this in the bag.

#3 Edited by HBKTimHBK (5242 posts) - - Show Bio

@BringnIt said:

Ultimately he gave some epic battles to and was killed by a version of Peter Parker that was inferior to mainstream continuity

To be fair, Peter Parker didn't survive either. That being said, Scarlet Spider.

#4 Posted by cosmicallyaware1 (4305 posts) - - Show Bio

Kaine takes this.

#5 Posted by BringnIt (3809 posts) - - Show Bio

@HBKTimHBK To be more fair, Peter was already shot and in bad condition before their engagement.

#6 Posted by HBKTimHBK (5242 posts) - - Show Bio

@BringnIt said:

@HBKTimHBK To be more fair, Peter was already shot and in bad condition before their engagement.

That's fair, I'm just saying that after the fight Peter wasn't exactly walking away unscathed.

#7 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20163 posts) - - Show Bio

Scarlet Spider. (If Spider Man could handle Ultimate Goblin, so can Scarlet Spider)

#8 Posted by BringnIt (3809 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, I know but overall Kaine is superior physically to 616 Peter who is superior in every conceivable way to 1610 Peter, who is around Ultimate Goblin overall (Goblin probably has superior stats but that Peter can and has beaten him).

#9 Posted by JediWaffles (746 posts) - - Show Bio

@BringnIt said:

Ultimately he gave some epic battles to and was killed by a version of Peter Parker that was inferior to mainstream continuity, who is physically inferior to Kaine. Coupled with Kaine's more loose morality and superior standard gear and he has this in the bag.

This.

#10 Posted by venomoushatred1001 (12334 posts) - - Show Bio

@BringnIt said:

Ultimately he gave some epic battles to and was killed by a version of Peter Parker that was inferior to mainstream continuity, who is physically inferior to Kaine. Coupled with Kaine's more loose morality and superior standard gear and he has this in the bag.

Agreed.

#11 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

I dont know. Green Goblin Manhandled Spidey, hes physicaly Stronger. He aslo Hulk Jumps and throws Fire Balls. He takes Assault Rifle Fire like nothing.

As seen in this second battle Petey was overpowered again. GG took more heavier Fire to bring him down and a stabed in the back still good.

I dont have Ultimate Six on me but in that he matched Ultimate Cap easy enough and overpowered Spidey again in that being beaten by Plot Device really.

So im going with Ultimate Goblin. Depends how much Formaly he punmps in him. Later on he didnt ned it but if he still had it he can pump up to the Second Fight level which is simply Hulkish.

#12 Posted by BringnIt (3809 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultimate Spidey was about 5 tons, if I recall correctly. So is Ultimate Cap. Kaine is 25. Kaine's stingers give him another damage type to use, the stealth suit gives him a major advantage, and his webbing is stronger.

#13 Posted by Onemoreposter (4026 posts) - - Show Bio

Bottom line is Ultimate Spidey could handle Ultimate Goblin. Kaine makes Ultimate Goblin wish Bendis had never created an Ultimate line.

#14 Posted by Death Certificate (5438 posts) - - Show Bio

Kaine has this.

#15 Posted by TDK_1997 (14704 posts) - - Show Bio

Kaine.

#16 Posted by KainScion (2973 posts) - - Show Bio

kaine takes this.

#17 Posted by DarthSpiderChief117 (28 posts) - - Show Bio

Even without spider sense, Kaine is clearly the Victor here.

#18 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

@BringnIt said:

Ultimately he gave some epic battles to and was killed by a version of Peter Parker that was inferior to mainstream continuity, who is physically inferior to Kaine. Coupled with Kaine's more loose morality and superior standard gear and he has this in the bag.

This.

#19 Posted by laflux (15418 posts) - - Show Bio

@BringnIt said:

Ultimate Spidey was about 5 tons, if I recall correctly. So is Ultimate Cap. Kaine is 25. Kaine's stingers give him another damage type to use, the stealth suit gives him a major advantage, and his webbing is stronger.

While I think Kaine wins this as well, Ultimate Spider-Man wasn't a Five Tonner. He's probably closer to 10 at the least, given how he was repeatably able to lift and smash a 9 ton truck on top of Norm while suffering from a gunshot wound. Saying this, I am one of those people who put an non-amped Peter closer to 20 tonnes in strength rather than 10 tonnes- based on feats. Furthermore, I don't why people are so adamant that Kaine is significantly stronger than Spider-Man, if at all. I am aware that he has the powers of the Other, and theoretically the extra strength that comes with it, but I have yet to see a feat that labels him as definitively stronger than a non amped Peter Parker/SpOck. A morals off Peter without a Spider-Sense gave a Vulked Out Flash a better fight than Kaine did IMO, and he had the advantage of stingers too.

#20 Posted by 18hunt (2903 posts) - - Show Bio

Is ult. GG same as ult. HG

#21 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio
@18hunt said:
Is ult. GG same as ult. HG
No. They are two different characters. 
Kaine wins this one. 
#22 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@HBKTimHBK said:

@BringnIt said:

@HBKTimHBK To be more fair, Peter was already shot and in bad condition before their engagement.

That's fair, I'm just saying that after the fight Peter wasn't exactly walking away unscathed.

To be fair again Green Goblin took a beating from Human Torch going out on him before Peter....

Also Green Goblin clearly dominated Peter the first 2 fights and dominated the Ultimates in Ultimate 6 Arc before Iron Man gene blasted him.

Anyway the match depends if Green Goblin has OZ on him. with additional Doses he gets even stronger.

He also has a range advantage. It be a close match.

#23 Posted by BringnIt (3809 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 I didn't think Johnny's attacks did anything to Norman?

#24 Edited by BringnIt (3809 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux If we are going with 616 Peter as being a twenty tonner, then I'm okay with Ultimate being ten. I no longer care about strength scales like I once did, though. Also, at the time of my post it was generally accepted Kaine was physically superior to Peter. My opinion on this battle ultimately remains the same, although my rationale for why has subsequently changed.

#25 Posted by Saren (25618 posts) - - Show Bio

@BringnIt said:

@CadenceV2 I didn't think Johnny's attacks did anything to Norman?

They actually boosted his power, if I remember correctly.

Moderator
#26 Posted by laflux (15418 posts) - - Show Bio

@BringnIt said:

@laflux If we are going with 616 Peter as being a twenty tonner, then I'm okay with Ultimate being ten. I no longer care about strength scales like I once did, though. Also, at the time of my post it was generally accepted Kaine was physically superior to Peter. My opinion on this battle ultimately remains the same, although my rationale for why has subsequently changed.

In all honesty I'm playing a bit of devil's advocate here. Kaine has a smaller amount of books, so his less opportunities to display high end feats. Spider-Man when powered up by the Other, really didn't any feats to demonstrate that he was significantly stronger than the Non-Other form either apart from statements from him and Handbook entries. I just feel that people (not pointing at you) overplay Kaine's physical advantage over Spider-Man, and sometimes insinuate that he is more effective than Peter because of it, despite Peter's greater experience, gear and training.

Further commenting on the Other, I do feel that Kaine has inherited those abilities differently to Peter. Kaine has the standard stingers, Organic Webbing, Greater healing, and overall better stats, along with the ability to talk to Spiders, but lacks a Spider-Sense (Peter's was heightened further). Peter also lacked less conscience control over stingers than Kaine, but his seemed to exude Venom, something which I haven't seen Kaine do either. And finally Kaine has still retained his Mark of Kaine, something Peter never had. Interestingly enough, the next issue of Scarlet Spider plans to answer at least some of these questions.

And finally, concerning handbook entries, they are pretty useless in battle thread due to power creep/decay, or characters having insufficient feats to justify that position (Marvel Ares being a good example). I do find them useful for gauging the discrepancy in terms of ratio between different characters. For example the Original Venom was listed as 25 tonnes, While Spider-Man 10. While both are considerably higher than there handbook entries, its a fair shout to say that Eddie Brock is around 2 and a half times stronger than Peter.

#27 Posted by BringnIt (3809 posts) - - Show Bio

@Laflux Peter has displayed the ability to do the Mark of Kaine, FYI. He did it to Sasha Kravinoff during the end of Grim Hunt. I think he's commented on it one other time as well. It's simply not in his morals to utilize it during most scenarios.

#28 Posted by laflux (15418 posts) - - Show Bio

@BringnIt said:

@Laflux Peter has displayed the ability to do the Mark of Kaine, FYI. He did it to Sasha Kravinoff during the end of Grim Hunt. I think he's commented on it one other time as well. It's simply not in his morals to utilize it during most scenarios.

Oh him using the Mark of Kaine like that is as a result of utilizing his Wall-Crawling Powers, rather than secreting acid from his palm as Kaine does- and that's what I was referring to. Peter's hand sticks to your face and rips flesh and muscle off. while Kaine's hand secretes acid which burns your skin and muscle away. Your right though, Peter only uses this variation of the mark when his morals are very laxed. He also used it against Norman Osborn, when he was captured by his team in American Son.