Rules:
@highaccuser: Slade is accurate enough to shoot him out of the sky with his blast staff, agile enough to dodge his bombs, and if he gets hit his armor should sustain some hits from goblins bombs.
What feats does he have to suggest this?
Here are a few generic accuracy feats, I think the first one is pre crisis admittedly:
And tagging impulse who was joking around to be fair.
@highaccuser: Slade is accurate enough to shoot him out of the sky with his blast staff, agile enough to dodge his bombs, and if he gets hit his armor should sustain some hits from goblins bombs.
What feats does he have to suggest this?
Here are a few generic accuracy feats, I think the first one is pre crisis admittedly:
And tagging impulse who was joking around to be fair.
I can agree with those being enough. Would his blaster shots be powerful enough to hurt Goblin?
@jashro44: Creed wouldn't have to vertically leap to get to Norman, he could scale buildings and use rooftops to catch him off guard. This is a city after all, and Creed can take advantage of the fact that Norman doesn't have superhuman senses so stealth could be a very reasonable option. Creed's tendency to tank more often than dodge can be attributed to pretty much the same reason Wolverine does. Because 9 times out of 10 he can.
His healing factor makes him more durable than Spider-Man (having smiled off hits from Luke Cage, Mr. Sinister's genetically engineered mutants, and Sasquatch) and even Wolverine has admitted he's superior in every physical aspect. Norman just doesn't have the damage output to put down Sabretooth, and that's assuming each weapon he uses hits the target. If Victor needs to dodge to gain a tactical advantage he'll likely do so..he may be ruthless but Creed isn't stupid.
I disagree. Creed's strength, speed, and durability should still be above Norman's (the latter by a stupidly high amount). And bulletproof armor won't help against claws that can tear holes in concrete and rip apart steel like it's paper mache.
Normans not going to let him climb buildings and Creed isn't spider-man. If scaling buildings were so easy Peter wouldn't need webbing. As Creed is climbing norman just blasts him down. And thats assuming Creed even tries to go the stealth route, Normans not going to take his eyes off Creed. And you yourself are arguing that sabretooth can take the damage here, so I don't see why Creed wouldn't tank the damage.
Never said his healing factor didn't make him more durable than spider-man, but it has its limits. It can be taxed eventually. Its not like Norman can't hurt Creed, he's just going to have a hard time knocking Creed out. Sure Creed isn't ruthless but he also isn't that agile and Normans bombs are pretty massive. Even if they don't hit him the shockwave is going to knock him back.
Creeds strength is inconsistent but he isn't usually portrayed as someone with close to spider-man level strength. Norman is. Creed isn't stronger. I'm also not sure about speed either, and goblins armor is pretty durable. The bullet that it allowed Normans standee to take sent him flying really far:
Not exactly a standard bullet to send someone flying that far. And there doesn't even seem to be a hole in his armor...That and his healing factor will help take damage from Creed.
@jashro44: Creed wouldn't have to vertically leap to get to Norman, he could scale buildings and use rooftops to catch him off guard. This is a city after all, and Creed can take advantage of the fact that Norman doesn't have superhuman senses so stealth could be a very reasonable option. Creed's tendency to tank more often than dodge can be attributed to pretty much the same reason Wolverine does. Because 9 times out of 10 he can.
His healing factor makes him more durable than Spider-Man (having smiled off hits from Luke Cage, Mr. Sinister's genetically engineered mutants, and Sasquatch) and even Wolverine has admitted he's superior in every physical aspect. Norman just doesn't have the damage output to put down Sabretooth, and that's assuming each weapon he uses hits the target. If Victor needs to dodge to gain a tactical advantage he'll likely do so..he may be ruthless but Creed isn't stupid.
I disagree. Creed's strength, speed, and durability should still be above Norman's (the latter by a stupidly high amount). And bulletproof armor won't help against claws that can tear holes in concrete and rip apart steel like it's paper mache.
Normans not going to let him climb buildings and Creed isn't spider-man. If scaling buildings were so easy Peter wouldn't need webbing. As Creed is climbing norman just blasts him down. And thats assuming Creed even tries to go the stealth route, Normans not going to take his eyes off Creed. And you yourself are arguing that sabretooth can take the damage here, so I don't see why Creed wouldn't tank the damage.
Never said his healing factor didn't make him more durable than spider-man, but it has its limits. It can be taxed eventually. Its not like Norman can't hurt Creed, he's just going to have a hard time knocking Creed out. Sure Creed isn't ruthless but he also isn't that agile and Normans bombs are pretty massive. Even if they don't hit him the shockwave is going to knock him back.
Creeds strength is inconsistent but he isn't usually portrayed as someone with close to spider-man level strength. Norman is. Creed isn't stronger. I'm also not sure about speed either, and goblins armor is pretty durable. The bullet that it allowed Normans standee to take sent him flying really far:
Not exactly a standard bullet to send someone flying that far. And there doesn't even seem to be a hole in his armor...That and his healing factor will help take damage from Creed.
Huh? Peter can scale buildings just fine. Webbing just makes traveling much easier..and Creed has strength feats such as tossing Wolfsbane up a several story building that suggests he should be able to make it to rooftops fairly easily.
Not to mention his claws can dig into the sides to make climbing easier. Creed can tank the blasts yes..but he's not gonna sit there and try to no sell every pumpkin bomb. That would get him nowhere. He'll likely use whatever tactics he can think of to get a hold of Norman. He can duck down alleyways and go inside buildings if he has to to escape Norman's LoS. And with no super senses to track him..Victor can use that edge to get the jump on him.
Sure it does, I just don't think he'll push it to those limits. Like I said, Creed has tanked RPGs and asked for more
and has walked off a crash and explosion while inside of the Blackbird, which took Wolverine noticeably longer to recover from. He's also smiled off Boom-Boom's explosions, and tanked a gas tank explosion even after sustaining quite a bit of damage from fighting Wolverine in Wolverine Vol 2 #175 IIRC. I'm not saying he won't feel the blasts..but I don't they're enough to put Creed down. At least not before Sabretooth gets a hold of Norman.
I'd actually disagree. He may not be as strong as Peter but he's close, having powered through a forcefield built to stop a rampaging bull elephant (which are around 8 tons on average) to literally ragdolling Wolverine and even breaking his bones without too much trouble on some occasions. I would definitely say Creed is faster, several sources have made the claim that Creed exceeds Wolverine in speed including Wolverine himself. Norman is fast but tagging Spider-Man is really the only notable speed feats he has to my knowledge, certainly nothing that puts him above James.
Impressive, but being bulletproof doesn't necessarily translate to knife or claw proof. New 52 Batman's armor is a good example of that. And in the event of a brawl, I don't see Norman doing what characters well above his level of strength couldn't..
Huh? Peter can scale buildings just fine. Webbing just makes traveling much easier..and Creed has strength feats such as tossing Wolfsbane up a several story building that suggests he should be able to make it to rooftops fairly easily.
Thats an impressive strength feat, with that said scaling buildings isn't going to work. My point of Peter scaling building is he needs webbing to fight green goblin, again Norman can just blow up the portion of the building Creed is on and he's going to fall back down. You can't climb something if the surface you are using is being blown up.
Not to mention his claws can dig into the sides to make climbing easier. Creed can tank the blasts yes..but he's not gonna sit there and try to no sell every pumpkin bomb. That would get him nowhere. He'll likely use whatever tactics he can think of to get a hold of Norman. He can duck down alleyways and go inside buildings if he has to to escape Norman's LoS. And with no super senses to track him..Victor can use that edge to get the jump on him.
He soaks damage 8/10 times. He has very few showings where he isn't just running through damage. If he goes inside buildings and needs to run away from the fight and hope Norman just passes over him that is basically a tactical retreat. He's no longer fighting at that point so much as he is running away. If you're saying Creed hides for a second and gets behind Norman then thats different, but he would need to leave the building first in order to do that and its not like Norman wouldn't be watching the exists... And if Creed goes inside a building norman can just throw a series of bombs into the building, even if the bombs don't take him down the collapsing rubble will. Normans not going to fall him into an enclosed space.
That and I have rarely ever seen Creed fall back on stealth in the middle of a fight. He enjoys fighting.
Sure it does, I just don't think he'll push it to those limits. Like I said, Creed has tanked RPGs and asked for more
I don't think this feat is useable because thats Creed at the peak of his upgrades IIRC. Back than he had adamantium, and his healing factor was stronger than ever.
and has walked off a crash and explosion while inside of the Blackbird, which took Wolverine noticeably longer to recover from. He's also smiled off Boom-Boom's explosions, and tanked a gas tank explosion even after sustaining quite a bit of damage from fighting Wolverine in Wolverine Vol 2 #175 IIRC. I'm not saying he won't feel the blasts..but I don't they're enough to put Creed down. At least not before Sabretooth gets a hold of Norman.
He's not hitting him with one explosion he's hitting him with multiple. Green goblins bombs are strong enough to send cars flying into the air as a result, even wont they hit near him the shockwave of the blast is enough to send Peter flying, and the first 2 scans are self explanatory (Keep in mind kingsly stole his weapons from Norman, and before you say spider-man tanked the blast note how he is covered in webbing on the second page implying that he smothered himself in webbing before the bomb exploded):
I have no doubt Creed can take a few bombs but I don't believe he can take all of the bombs at once.
You're right about wolverine V2 175, all though I believe that was weapon X Creed as well so not sure if it transfers seeing as thats not standard sabretooth. The other feats are also impressive but again the issue isn't one explosion but multiple hitting him.
I'd actually disagree. He may not be as strong as Peter but he's close, having powered through a forcefield built to stop a rampaging bull elephant (which are around 8 tons on average) to literally ragdolling Wolverine and even breaking his bones without too much trouble on some occasions. I would definitely say Creed is faster, several sources have made the claim that Creed exceeds Wolverine in speed including Wolverine himself. Norman is fast but tagging Spider-Man is really the only notable speed feats he has to my knowledge, certainly nothing that puts him above James.
Spider-man has done feats of greater magnitude. He's caused massive craters in the ground with his punches, he's lifted trains, he's flicked train carts with one finger, etc yet goblin still gives him problems in a grapple. I don't see why goblin couldn't rag doll wolverine in pure strength to be honest. Wolverine is at max a 2 tonner, Norman is at minimum a 9 tonner.
As for Creeds speed he is faster than wolverine as was shown in there fight before Logans advanced training but goblin is basically as fast as Peter. He isn't as agile and doesn't have his avoidance but he has been able to sidestep Peter in the past who was moving so fast he bumped into the wall (admittedly Peter was blind but he still had spider-sense, and he was shown capable of fighting blind in this issue, and spider-sense has helped him when he couldn't see in the past):
Impressive, but being bulletproof doesn't necessarily translate to knife or claw proof. New 52 Batman's armor is a good example of that. And in the event of a brawl, I don't see Norman doing what characters well above his level of strength couldn't..
I don't know about batman in the new 52 as I am behind at the moment but Goblin has never really been tested against knives. I don't think it really makes a different if its a knife or bullet. I'm not saying Creed can't cut goblin though, I just don't think he will take his limbs off with cuts.
Log in to comment