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#51 Posted by dondave (38893 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman

#52 Posted by jackbensley777 (685 posts) - - Show Bio

batman? are you guys stupid? bats is probably alot more fit than green arrow... alot more educated in all apsects espescially in hand to hand combat... batman uses no weapons. he uses gadgets but nothing like an arrow really and still is able to woop green arrow.

#53 Posted by sony3263 (1 posts) - - Show Bio

As simple as... Sensei trained Black Arrow, Black Arrow is as good as Green Arrow, Ra's Al Ghul beat the crap out of Sensei and we all know what Batman does to Ra's and its whole gang plus Batman is way badass than Green Arrow and a better martial artist.

#54 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

I love Ollie but seriously.....Batman?

He could catch or evade his arrows with ease and I have scans that imply that he would go down with a simple nerve strike.

Batman stomps.Not fair.

#55 Edited by Ancient_0f_Days (12392 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger said:

I love Ollie but seriously.....Batman?

He could catch or evade his arrows with ease and I have scans that imply that he would go down with a simple nerve strike.

Batman stomps.Not fair.

It is not a stomp, both have feats implying they are skilled enough and equipped enough to give what they get, Batman just has more/better feats. He wins, but it aint no stomp, or at least not as big a stomp as you think it is.

#56 Posted by thejman251 (435 posts) - - Show Bio

- I choose Bruce of course.

- Additionally, i would like the series name and issue number in which Oliver allegedly "beat" Deathstroke.

#57 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger said:

I love Ollie but seriously.....Batman?

He could catch or evade his arrows with ease and I have scans that imply that he would go down with a simple nerve strike.

Batman stomps.Not fair.

It is not a stomp, both have feats implying they are skilled enough and equipped enough to give what they get, Batman just has more/better feats. He wins, but it aint no stomp, or at least not as big a stomp as you think it is.

Batman has one-shotted Green Arrow twice.

#58 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12392 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger: Doesn't seem like there is too much context in your post.......

#59 Edited by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger: Doesn't seem like there is too much context in your post.......

Batman only tried to reason with him in both circumstances.He was holding back.And yet he got the upper hand in each of their fights......Seriously Batman all out would demolish Ollie.

#60 Edited by Alexander505 (2177 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman is better than Green Arrow. Best martial arts skills, best psychophysical level (Bruce is a peak human), best intellect, best tactician and best weapons and armor.

Batman win 7/10

#61 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12392 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger: Oh, so batman didn't one shot Ollie twice? Thought so...

#62 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger: Oh, so batman didn't one shot Ollie twice? Thought so...

Technically,he did......

I am really in no mood flooding this thread with Batman feats.....

#63 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12392 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger said:

@ancient_0f_days said:

@stronger: Oh, so batman didn't one shot Ollie twice? Thought so...

Technically,he did......

I am really in no mood flooding this thread with Batman feats.....

mhm....yeah ok, Captain Context...

#64 Edited by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger said:

@ancient_0f_days said:

@stronger: Oh, so batman didn't one shot Ollie twice? Thought so...

Technically,he did......

I am really in no mood flooding this thread with Batman feats.....

mhm....yeah ok, Captain Context...

Says mister Wonder fan....

#65 Posted by XiiX (9469 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman(though not as easily as some might think).

Online
#66 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12392 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger said:

@ancient_0f_days said:

@stronger said:

@ancient_0f_days said:

@stronger: Oh, so batman didn't one shot Ollie twice? Thought so...

Technically,he did......

I am really in no mood flooding this thread with Batman feats.....

mhm....yeah ok, Captain Context...

Says mister Wonder fan....

Whats wrong with knowing about a certain character....least I can back up what I say...Show me some proof of Batman "oneshotting" Green Arrow....pfft, yeah right...

#67 Posted by baron2011 (1155 posts) - - Show Bio

batman

#68 Posted by XImpossibruX (5253 posts) - - Show Bio

Didn't they fight in the JLA comic 125 'The End of the JLA', where the Key was manipulating GA to fight and Batman held back?

If were going by New 52 Batman stomps, in Detective Comics 17 he could take down people with super strength like it's nobodies business with pressure point attacks.


#69 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger said:

@ancient_0f_days said:

@stronger said:

@ancient_0f_days said:

@stronger: Oh, so batman didn't one shot Ollie twice? Thought so...

Technically,he did......

I am really in no mood flooding this thread with Batman feats.....

mhm....yeah ok, Captain Context...

Says mister Wonder fan....

Whats wrong with knowing about a certain character....least I can back up what I say...Show me some proof of Batman "oneshotting" Green Arrow....pfft, yeah right...

If you have any scans implying Batman doesn't stomp,go ahead and post them.

Batman could one-shot Arrow with just pressure points,or beat him to death.....Now if they are starting from a distance,Batman could use smoke pellets or just evade the arrows and manage to come close enough so he could K.O. him.....Batman can also fight from a distance with gadgets.

There are so many ways Batman can beat him,it's not even funny......

As XImpossibruX said,new 52 Batman stomps.

If you have any other case in your mind,you could also share it with us,and stop fooling around....

#70 Posted by TDK_1997 (15075 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman wins.

#71 Posted by RustyRoy (13910 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman wins.

@icoop said:

Eh,I like Batman as much as the rest of us, but I think you guys give it to Bats too easy. If the two were in a desert standing 100 feet apart, I'm pretty sure Ollie could nail him at leasta couple times before Bat caught up with him. Then the bleeding weakened Bat would be defeated by GA. Hes human he can't survive a couple arrows through the chest better than any other human.(or maybe innumerable of the trick arrows?)

If they are 100 feet apart than Batman can dodge the arrows easily. And I think Batman will fair better in a rough environment like a desert.

#72 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12392 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger said:

If you have any scans implying Batman doesn't stomp,go ahead and post them.

Batman could one-shot Arrow with just pressure points,or beat him to death.....Now if they are starting from a distance,Batman could use smoke pellets or just evade the arrows and manage to come close enough so he could K.O. him.....Batman can also fight from a distance with gadgets.

There are so many ways Batman can beat him,it's not even funny......

As XImpossibruX said,new 52 Batman stomps.

If you have any other case in your mind,you could also share it with us,and stop fooling around....

Fact of the matter is, you lied out of your ass and can't back up a damn thing, you are relying on XImpossibruX for an argument and cant even defend yourself when questioned on your blatant BS, resorting to "technicalities" and petty name calling...I am above that and will accept your challenge....

Green Arrow uses martial arts to defeat Stunner, a meta-human with superhuman strength and durability

Using the Cryo Arrow,to hold Stunner

Oliver Prince Vs Constantine Drakon, a very skilled marksman and martial artist which makes for an even better assassin....This guy has blitzed Roy Harper and has gone toe to toe against Connor Hawke, the most skilled of Ollie's pupils ...

Now for some minor skill showings....

Ollie vs Deathstroke
http://img34.imagevenue.com/img.php...85_gaslade1.jpg
http://img146.imagevenue.com/img.ph...92_gaslade2.jpg
http://img15.imagevenue.com/img.php...97_gaslade3.jpg
http://img125.imagevenue.com/img.ph...04_gaslade4.jpg
http://img7.imagevenue.com/img.php?...39_gaslade5.jpg
http://img101.imagevenue.com/img.ph...46_gaslade6.jpg
http://img140.imagevenue.com/img.ph...51_gaslade7.jpg
http://img17.imagevenue.com/img.php...57_gaslade8.jpg
http://img148.imagevenue.com/img.ph...66_gaslade9.jpg
http://img142.imagevenue.com/img.ph...2_gaslade10.jpg
http://img142.imagevenue.com/img.ph...0_gaslade11.jpg
http://img20.imagevenue.com/img.php...7_gaslade12.jpg
http://img127.imagevenue.com/img.ph...2_gaslade13.jpg
http://img104.imagevenue.com/img.ph...8_gaslade14.jpg
http://img137.imagevenue.com/img.ph...4_gaslade15.jpg
http://img105.imagevenue.com/img.ph...1_gaslade16.jpg
http://img147.imagevenue.com/img.ph...6_gaslade17.jpg
http://img102.imagevenue.com/img.ph...4_gaslade18.jpg
http://img147.imagevenue.com/img.ph...0_gaslade19.jpg
http://img139.imagevenue.com/img.ph...5_gaslade20.jpg
http://img121.imagevenue.com/img.ph...4_gaslade21.jpg
http://img145.imagevenue.com/img.ph...1_gaslade22.jpg

........He had prep, but considering they both were taught by the same guy, still legit.

He's beaten Grifter, Grundy, Brick, Deadshot.....two are expert marksmen who could give Batman a run for his money and the other two are superhuman tanks who are also no joke, even though Batman beat Solomon, he had his hands full with brick...

Here's what you left out of your scan of Batman "technically" oneshotting Ollie

After Ollie retrains with help from the guy who taught Deathstroke how to fight, the trainer as a final test sends numerous assassins to take down Ollie. Now with his Deathstroke like fighting skills Ollie pwns them all…………

http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/...killfeatvg7.jpg
http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/...illfeat2pz2.jpg
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/...illfeat3wb2.jpg
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/...illfeat4mv5.jpg
http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/...illfeat5yf2.jpg
http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/...illfeat6yi9.jpg
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/...illfeat7jt7.jpg
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/...illfeat8si1.jpg
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/...illfeat9ve5.jpg
http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/...llfeat10ya2.jpg
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/...llfeat11db4.jpg
http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/...llfeat12fd9.jpg
http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/...llfeat13cp8.jpg
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/...llfeat14cu4.jpg

He even managed to stand his ground and take a little beating from Cassandra Cain, then save her life....

Oh, just too add....

@stronger said:

Says mister Wonder fan....

@stronger said:

I <3 Wonder Woman

Found that in a Wonder Woman respect thread, who's the "Mister Wonder Fan" now

#73 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@ancient_0f_days:

http://s289.photobucket.com/user/darknight2k/media/haimskill5.jpg.html

This guy is Master Haim,one of the best martial artists in DC comics.He one-shotted Green Arrow with a single nerve strike.

Look at his fight against a young and inexpierienced Batman.

http://s289.photobucket.com/user/darknight2k/media/batvhaim1.jpg.html

http://s289.photobucket.com/user/darknight2k/media/batvhaim2.jpg.html

http://s289.photobucket.com/user/darknight2k/media/batvhaim3.jpg.html

Of course I am not saying Green Arrow wouldn't put up a fight with his Arrow but you take a look at this as well.Mater Haim against Sag who is on par with Green Arrow at archery.

http://s289.photobucket.com/user/darknight2k/media/haimarrow1.jpg.html

http://s289.photobucket.com/user/darknight2k/media/haimarrow2.jpg.html

Batman has also easily defeated Ra's Al Ghul in h2h and in a sword fight.

Batman has defeated Bane,Wildcat (twice),humiliated David Cain ( guy who would shit all over Oliver's face,and I mean not even solid crap,but diarrhea.......

He has also beaten Lady Shiva twice.Once during sparring and the other when she was possibly mind controlled by Grodd.He has also stalemated her once in his early years,when he was young and inexpierienced as well, and beat her with little help from Robin.

#74 Posted by ULTRAstarkiller (6464 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman duh.

#75 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12392 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger said:

Of course I am not saying Green Arrow wouldn't put up a fight with his Arrow

This is all I needed to see....concession accepted, Batman wins but doesn't stomp....

@stronger said:

Batman has also easily defeated Ra's Al Ghul in h2h and in a sword fight.

Was this before or after he was nearly beaten to death with a shovel by Ra's....

@stronger said:

humiliated David Cain ( guy who would shit all over Oliver's face,and I mean not even solid crap,but diarrhea.......

David Cain was a shadow of his former self having been out of the assassin scene for a long time along with being out of shape and quite drunk at the time when batman "humailiated" him (Captain Context strikes again)....once he got sober and back into shape Luthor paid him to break out of jail, sneak into the batcave, plant incriminating evidence framing Bruce for murder, sneak out of the batcave and break back into his jail cell without a single soul knowing about it...then he fought Bruce to a standstill later, humiliated Deadshot (while handcuffed and shot up) who goes easy on Batman most of the time and doesn't try to kill him (Deadshot was going to shoot cain in the head) and fought his daughter to a near standstill but lost in the end....keep downplaying Ollie and I'll pull out the scan of him decking Bruce in the face from a hospital bed ....

@stronger said:

He has also beaten Lady Shiva twice.Once during sparring and the other when she was possibly mind controlled by Grodd.He has also stalemated her once in his early years,when he was young and inexpierienced as well, and beat her with little help from Robin.

Batman has never beaten a serious, sound minded Lady Shiva in real battle on his own, she's stomped him almost every time they fought for real. A sparring match doesn't compare to all the actual battles they fought where Shiva has always had the upper hand. What do you mean "possibly", she was clearly mind-controlled and out of character....how was he inexperienced when he had already mastered several forms of martial arts by then? Maybe he wasn't as experienced as he was when they fought again, but before then he had already learned how to fight well enough...Robin being there makes his "win" uncountable ... little help or not, he would've lost had Robin not been there.

I rest my case...

#76 Edited by jashro44 (25422 posts) - - Show Bio

@ancient_0f_days: just cocnerning that deathstroke fight but slade did lose that fight on purpose to break Constantine drakon out of prison iirc.

#77 Edited by Ancient_0f_Days (12392 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@ancient_0f_days: just cocnerning that deathstroke fight but slade did lose that fight on purpose to break Constantine drakon out of prison iirc.

Even so, he was given a good fight none the less....I don't really count it as a win towards Ollie anyway....

#78 Posted by jashro44 (25422 posts) - - Show Bio

@ancient_0f_days: It isn't a feat though. He gave Slade a good fight because Slade allowed it. They fought again later and this is how it went:

Scans are in reverse, sorry about that but new comicvine wont let me upload scans in proper order for some reason.

#79 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12392 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: well.....damn, but Slade as a character is just that type of way and I would expect nothing less, that's why I don't count the other fight as a win for Ollie. But it not being a feat? C'mon yo, give Green a break, he was using a sword for Christ sake ... (that rhymed) .....besides unless all that mental monologue by Slade couldn't have just been for show...

#80 Edited by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger said:

Of course I am not saying Green Arrow wouldn't put up a fight with his Arrow

This is all I needed to see....concession accepted, Batman wins but doesn't stomp....

@stronger said:

Batman has also easily defeated Ra's Al Ghul in h2h and in a sword fight.

Was this before or after he was nearly beaten to death with a shovel by Ra's....

@stronger said:

humiliated David Cain ( guy who would shit all over Oliver's face,and I mean not even solid crap,but diarrhea.......

David Cain was a shadow of his former self having been out of the assassin scene for a long time along with being out of shape and quite drunk at the time when batman "humailiated" him (Captain Context strikes again)....once he got sober and back into shape Luthor paid him to break out of jail, sneak into the batcave, plant incriminating evidence framing Bruce for murder, sneak out of the batcave and break back into his jail cell without a single soul knowing about it...then he fought Bruce to a standstill later, humiliated Deadshot (while handcuffed and shot up) who goes easy on Batman most of the time and doesn't try to kill him (Deadshot was going to shoot cain in the head) and fought his daughter to a near standstill but lost in the end....keep downplaying Ollie and I'll pull out the scan of him decking Bruce in the face from a hospital bed ....

@stronger said:

He has also beaten Lady Shiva twice.Once during sparring and the other when she was possibly mind controlled by Grodd.He has also stalemated her once in his early years,when he was young and inexpierienced as well, and beat her with little help from Robin.

Batman has never beaten a serious, sound minded Lady Shiva in real battle on his own, she's stomped him almost every time they fought for real. A sparring match doesn't compare to all the actual battles they fought where Shiva has always had the upper hand. What do you mean "possibly", she was clearly mind-controlled and out of character....how was he inexperienced when he had already mastered several forms of martial arts by then? Maybe he wasn't as experienced as he was when they fought again, but before then he had already learned how to fight well enough...Robin being there makes his "win" uncountable ... little help or not, he would've lost had Robin not been there.

I rest my case...

In the begining I wanted to take you lightly,but you pushed the f#cking line.....You are so f....... ironic and arrogant towards me.You said I name called you....When the hell did I name call you in THIS thread?You don't show even the slightest respect and you expect me to even debate with you?OK, I 'll do it just to prove I am above you at every level.

1.Right in your face.....

http://s289.photobucket.com/user/darknight2k/media/batvsdemonhead-sword1.jpg.html

http://s289.photobucket.com/user/darknight2k/media/batvsdemonhead-sword2.jpg.html

http://s289.photobucket.com/user/darknight2k/media/batvsdemonhead-sword3.jpg.html

Beating Ra's in his own game...

http://s289.photobucket.com/user/darknight2k/media/batvsdemonhead-hth2a.jpg.html

http://s289.photobucket.com/user/darknight2k/media/batvsdemonhead-hth2b.jpg.html

http://s289.photobucket.com/user/darknight2k/media/batvsdemonhead-hth2c.jpg.html

Humiliating Ra's,the leader of the League of Assasins, like a mediocre martial artist.

What's your god-damn excuse now???/

2.Deadshot goes easy on Batman? HAHAHAHHAHHAHA.....Deadshot has tried to kill him plenty of times and Batman even disappeared in front of him...I've got the scan.

David Cain was drunk????/Drunk??/ Prove it you liar....Prove he was f#cking drunk if you can...And I don't mean like he drunk one glass and then fight.I mean so drunk he couldn't even remember his name.That means drunk.But what do you know of it?You have probably never been drunk in your life.How old are you,ten???

I love Green Arrow but that doesn't mean he doesn't get stomped.I like his comics,his show and everything about the character....And what was that? A threat??You are threatening me?Come fart my nuts.....

3.Shiva has NEVER stomped Batman.NEVER.

I have seen all of their fights and they are either stalemate or Batman gets the upper hand.You call me Captain Context but you don't know anything about Batman.And I mean plain f....... nothing......

Do you want me to post all of their fights?Do you?If you want tell me,cause I have them all in my desktop.

Batman was inexpierienced at fighting top level martial artists the first time he fought Shiva.And still when did you see Shiva getting the upper hand?I saw them equally matched until Jason busted in and hit Shiva from behind allowing Batman to end her.You haven't even red the comic and you come here to debate with ME?

In Superman/Batman:Public enemies it doesn't clearly state she was mind controlled.And if she was,why does that affect her fighting skills?

4.Batman avoid bullets for breakfast.What makes you think he won't evade arrows who are much slower than bullets?

Batman only needs to land a strike.When the game comes actually close combat.Batman stomps.I don't give a damn what you think.You can mock me,insult me or do whatever you like but you can prove shit about it.Cry all you want.You come here and post random battles with Deathstroke or d-list metahumans.Even f...... Tim Drake can beat these metas....Deathstroke was holding back as always.

When Deathstroke fought Batman he gave him so much pain,before he went down, he needed weeks to recover and he was actually beaten by a tied up guy with mediocre skill.

http://s289.photobucket.com/user/darknight2k/media/batvsdstroke-ds7.jpg.html

http://s289.photobucket.com/user/darknight2k/media/batvsdstroke-ds8.jpg.html

http://s289.photobucket.com/user/darknight2k/media/batvsdstroke-ds9.jpg.htmlhttp://s289.photobucket.com/user/darknight2k/media/batvsdstroke-ds10.jpg.html

He also beat him once.

Batman hass also beaten way more powerful metas than Green Arrow has(Bane,Azrael,Artemis,The Trench,and even vampires and parademons etc).He has also held his own agaisnt Dark Supergirl,Superman and Wonder Woman etc.Green Arrow would fall around ten seconds.I have the scans.

If you want me to continue this debate,you will adress me with respect,as I have done so far.Otherwise go do something else.

#81 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12392 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger said:

In the begining I wanted to take you lightly,but you pushed the f#cking line.....You are so f....... ironic and arrogant towards me.You said I name called you....When the hell did I name call you in THIS thread?

@stronger said:

Says mister Wonder fan....

swag.... oh and I think there's more in there somewhere..

@stronger said:

But what do you know of it?You have probably never been drunk in your life.How old are you,ten???

Maybe.....

@stronger said:

I'm sorely tempted to

@stronger said:

You call me Captain Context but you don't know anything about Batman.And I mean plain f....... nothing......

You are talking to the dude who's posted at least two Batman related respect threads that you have complimented......but yeah I know nothing about batman, cool beans.

@stronger said:

You can mock me,insult me or do whatever you like but you can prove shit about it.Cry all you want.

LOL right, cus I've been crying and insulting you.......pfft please. I've been laughing at your whole temper tantru- I mean post .... you just ragin and cussin like you know somebody lool ... funny stuff bro, cool story .... You on the other hand decided to tell me i'm insulting you and then insult back at me... all I did was call you a liar and say you can't stand on your own two feet (Thanks for proving that)....

now I'm going to break your arguments...with respect...

@stronger said:

Beating Ra's in his own game...

Humiliating Ra's,the leader of the League of Assasins, like a mediocre martial artist.

What's your god-damn excuse now???/

The fact that even Nightwing has been able to beat Ra's in a sword fight, Ras isn't even in a legit body the second fight, it was old and weak and probably hasn't been in the pit for a little while...I've seen them both btw, in any case, almost anyone in the bat family or above them has the potential to beat Ras. Considering the kind of training Ollie has received, he'd be able to as well. I think even Tim held his own against Ra's lol....

@stronger said:

2.Deadshot goes easy on Batman? HAHAHAHHAHHAHA.....Deadshot has tried to kill him plenty of times and Batman even disappeared in front of him...I've got the scan.

I have a scan where Batman says it himself....he pulls his shots.... I'll get to the rest of that rage fest later.... gtg.

lol.

#82 Posted by jashro44 (25422 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: well.....damn, but Slade as a character is just that type of way and I would expect nothing less, that's why I don't count the other fight as a win for Ollie. But it not being a feat? C'mon yo, give Green a break, he was using a sword for Christ sake ... (that rhymed) .....besides unless all that mental monologue by Slade couldn't have just been for show...

Slade complementing his sword fighting ability is pretty note worthy. Admittedly I didn't notice that originally. All though it does seem like deathstorke would take a large majority on green arrow based off of past showings if not a clean sweep (not that it matters here as he would beat batman handily as well based off deathstroke and Batmans past showings).

@stronger I am only responding to these points.

2.Deadshot goes easy on Batman? HAHAHAHHAHHAHA.....Deadshot has tried to kill him plenty of times and Batman even disappeared in front of him...I've got the scan.

Deadshot does pull his shots on batman. He subconsciously holds back on batman out of respect. IIRC Batman himself has stated Deadshot could kill him. He disappeared in front of deadshot once but he has also been shot by deadshot despite deadshot subconsciously trying not to kill him (I realize batman doesn't kill either but considering all of deadshots gear is designed to kill I would say him holding back is a much bigger handicap).

Batman was inexpierienced at fighting top level martial artists the first time he fought Shiva.And still when did you see Shiva getting the upper hand?I saw them equally matched until Jason busted in and hit Shiva from behind allowing Batman to end her.You haven't even red the comic and you come here to debate with ME?

In Superman/Batman:Public enemies it doesn't clearly state she was mind controlled.And if she was,why does that affect her fighting skills?

Batman wasn't inexperienced at the time. At this point he had been batman for a few years (Dick had moved on and became nightwing at this point).

And the reason why Shiva may have been handicapped against Grodd is because she was being controlled by someone else and her movements may have been controlled by Grodds application. And the fight also contradicts batman and shivas fight during death in the family considering in death of the family batman remarked "she can dish out and take it as well" or something along those lines (I am paraphrasing a little bit) so it does stand to reason to assume mind control may have been playing a role in superman/batman considering he was able to one shot her in that encounter. I think batman can beat shiva but that fight in superman/batman is questionable.

#83 Edited by THORSON (2518 posts) - - Show Bio

green arrow will whoop that punk.

#84 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger said:

In the begining I wanted to take you lightly,but you pushed the f#cking line.....You are so f....... ironic and arrogant towards me.You said I name called you....When the hell did I name call you in THIS thread?

@stronger said:

Says mister Wonder fan....

swag.... oh and I think there's more in there somewhere..

@stronger said:

But what do you know of it?You have probably never been drunk in your life.How old are you,ten???

Maybe.....

@stronger said:

I'm sorely tempted to

@stronger said:

You call me Captain Context but you don't know anything about Batman.And I mean plain f....... nothing......

You are talking to the dude who's posted at least two Batman related respect threads that you have complimented......but yeah I know nothing about batman, cool beans.

@stronger said:

You can mock me,insult me or do whatever you like but you can prove shit about it.Cry all you want.

LOL right, cus I've been crying and insulting you.......pfft please. I've been laughing at your whole temper tantru- I mean post .... you just ragin and cussin like you know somebody lool ... funny stuff bro, cool story .... You on the other hand decided to tell me i'm insulting you and then insult back at me... all I did was call you a liar and say you can't stand on your own two feet (Thanks for proving that)....

now I'm going to break your arguments...with respect...

@stronger said:

Beating Ra's in his own game...

Humiliating Ra's,the leader of the League of Assasins, like a mediocre martial artist.

What's your god-damn excuse now???/

The fact that even Nightwing has been able to beat Ra's in a sword fight, Ras isn't even in a legit body the second fight, it was old and weak and probably hasn't been in the pit for a little while...I've seen them both btw, in any case, almost anyone in the bat family or above them has the potential to beat Ras. Considering the kind of training Ollie has received, he'd be able to as well. I think even Tim held his own against Ra's lol....

@stronger said:

2.Deadshot goes easy on Batman? HAHAHAHHAHHAHA.....Deadshot has tried to kill him plenty of times and Batman even disappeared in front of him...I've got the scan.

I have a scan where Batman says it himself....he pulls his shots.... I'll get to the rest of that rage fest later.... gtg.

lol.

Dude,you can't even diss me right......You smoking something?Or do you get advice on how to mock people by your 5 year old fag brother?Seriously,I never insulted you until now.

Man you so f....... laughable,I gave your posts the dumbest geek in my town and he was laughing his ass with you.....

You made two respect threads about Batman?What?You found irrelevant stuff from the net and posted it?

Ra's Al Ghul is the guy who beat Bane in a sword fight.Tim Drake was beaten by Ra's.Nobody apart from Nightwing and Batman can beat him.

Dude,seriously get a life.I am afraid if I insult you so much,you are going to flag me like a fag.......What's gonna happen?Get the mods to save your pathetic ass because you can't even write a good arguement?You haven't prove anyhting since we started.The only thing you have accomplished is showing us how pathetic and miserable you are.

#85 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@ancient_0f_days said:

@jashro44: well.....damn, but Slade as a character is just that type of way and I would expect nothing less, that's why I don't count the other fight as a win for Ollie. But it not being a feat? C'mon yo, give Green a break, he was using a sword for Christ sake ... (that rhymed) .....besides unless all that mental monologue by Slade couldn't have just been for show...

Slade complementing his sword fighting ability is pretty note worthy. Admittedly I didn't notice that originally. All though it does seem like deathstorke would take a large majority on green arrow based off of past showings if not a clean sweep (not that it matters here as he would beat batman handily as well based off deathstroke and Batmans past showings).

@stronger I am only responding to these points.

2.Deadshot goes easy on Batman? HAHAHAHHAHHAHA.....Deadshot has tried to kill him plenty of times and Batman even disappeared in front of him...I've got the scan.

Deadshot does pull his shots on batman. He subconsciously holds back on batman out of respect. IIRC Batman himself has stated Deadshot could kill him. He disappeared in front of deadshot once but he has also been shot by deadshot despite deadshot subconsciously trying not to kill him (I realize batman doesn't kill either but considering all of deadshots gear is designed to kill I would say him holding back is a much bigger handicap).

Batman was inexpierienced at fighting top level martial artists the first time he fought Shiva.And still when did you see Shiva getting the upper hand?I saw them equally matched until Jason busted in and hit Shiva from behind allowing Batman to end her.You haven't even red the comic and you come here to debate with ME?

In Superman/Batman:Public enemies it doesn't clearly state she was mind controlled.And if she was,why does that affect her fighting skills?

Batman wasn't inexperienced at the time. At this point he had been batman for a few years (Dick had moved on and became nightwing at this point).

And the reason why Shiva may have been handicapped against Grodd is because she was being controlled by someone else and her movements may have been controlled by Grodds application. And the fight also contradicts batman and shivas fight during death in the family considering in death of the family batman remarked "she can dish out and take it as well" or something along those lines (I am paraphrasing a little bit) so it does stand to reason to assume mind control may have been playing a role in superman/batman considering he was able to one shot her in that encounter. I think batman can beat shiva but that fight in superman/batman is questionable.

1.Batman has beaten Deadshot at least once if I recall correct.Batman's statements can be proved wrong.I am not saying it's wrong,but I wouldn't base my arguement on a single statement.

2.First of all,how does mindcontrolling reduce fighting skill or fighting prowess?Only when the character thinks he is fighting someone else,it's not fair.But nobody has proof of that.

In the new 52 Nightwing series,Lady Shiva beat Batman with the help of a poisoned shuriken.It wasn't fair h2h combat.

#86 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12392 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger said:

Dude,you can't even diss me right......You smoking something?Or do you get advice on how to mock people by your 5 year old fag brother?Seriously,I never insulted you until now.

LOL I'm not trying to dis you, I don't have to, you have a short fuse and that's all I need to know, suggesting that I smoke, or that I have a gay 5 year old brother (what 5 year old is gay, maybe you know a little somthin-somthin bout that....OHHHHH). You suggested I was a "Wonder Fan" which is a petty name to call someone especially when you once stated you "<3 Wonder Woman" in a Wonder Woman respect thread...the irony is strong with this one. You insulted me by calling me a ten year old and saying I was ironic, arrogant and you suggested I fart on your nuts or something which may or may not be an insult (seems something one of the girls from 2 girls 1 cup might say,...uuughhh) I'll continue this little off topic game for a short while longer, after-which you will have to PM me if you feel the need to express all your suppressed feelings as vulgarly as you see fit...

@stronger said:

Man you so f....... laughable,I gave your posts the dumbest geek in my town and he was laughing his ass with you.....

So, you are friends with the dumbest geek in town? Duly noted, explains a lot too .....

@stronger said:

You made two respect threads about Batman?What?You found irrelevant stuff from the net and posted it?

Apparently you didn't think so before, or the people like you that complimented them .....

@stronger said:

Ra's Al Ghul is the guy who beat Bane in a sword fight.Tim Drake was beaten by Ra's.Nobody apart from Nightwing and Batman can beat him.

Cus Bane is such an accomplished swordsman right? I mean, you see Bane swingin swords around all the time , y'know....

@stronger said:

Dude,seriously get a life.I am afraid if I insult you so much,you are going to flag me like a fag.......What's gonna happen?Get the mods to save your pathetic ass because you can't even write a good arguement?You haven't prove anyhting since we started.The only thing you have accomplished is showing us how pathetic and miserable you are.

LOL I have to get a life, cus I'm the one bustin blood vessels ragin over the internet right? But oh no, I wouldn't dream of flagging you...what kind of monster would I be if I had done such a thing, lol but really doh....no, I won't flag (like a fag as you say)....but if I did id need modder body guards to protect me from your mean words over the internet lol. I proved that Batman doesn't stomp Ollie, you proved that you are a bold faced liar (batman didn't one shot Ollie twice or even once), you proved that you really aren't ready to handle getting told whats up concerning your lying habits and like to go into fits of rage to prove .... something ..... whatever it is, I don't care. I don't care if you say I'm miserable or pathetic cus you are some guy over the internet...that's all there is to it. You have made my day though, thank you for that...

In my next post I will be continuing my argument ... so, save your "extra" for another time or for a PM....

#87 Posted by jashro44 (25422 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger:

1.Batman has beaten Deadshot at least once if I recall correct.Batman's statements can be proved wrong.I am not saying it's wrong,but I wouldn't base my arguement on a single statement.

Thing is its not a single statement. Its multiple statements and its a pretty big part of deadshots character (There is more to his character then his respect for batman but his respect for batman is still kind of important). He wont kill batman because he reminds him of his brother.

2.First of all,how does mindcontrolling reduce fighting skill or fighting prowess?Only when the character thinks he is fighting someone else,it's not fair.But nobody has proof of that.

First let me explain why I think her skill was hindered.

It doesn't always but the reason I believe it to be the case in public enemies is based off of how easily shiva goes down. When they had a previous encounter batman spent the whole match complementing her abilities and there are other instances which portray them as equals such as knightfall where he refers to her as the best/most dangerous fighter on the planet and asks her to retrain him (there is a reason he asked her to retrain him to his peak). Based off of there other showings and what batman has stated of her it seems fair to say him one shotting her shouldn't be the case if she were fighting to the best of her abilities. Batman himself commented that she could take and dish out the pain.

"She can take it as well as dish it out"

The reason I say mind control can hinder shiva is because its grodd controlling her movements. Think of it as a video game player controlling a character in call of duty or something. The skill is limited to the technique of the player controlling the guy. Its a similar concept with Grodd.

I do think batman can beat shiva for a majority (from what I know of lady shiva at least) but it wouldn't go down the way it did in superman/batman. She should do a lot better based on there other showings. Its the fact the showing in superman/batman isn't in her norm that makes me believe Grodd hindered her skill.

In the new 52 Nightwing series,Lady Shiva beat Batman with the help of a poisoned shuriken.It wasn't fair h2h combat.

I don't really think it makes her better then batman. It also took place when Dick was robin so for all we know batman has improved since then. I think all of there fights have had context and none of them really show who is the suepioer fighter.

#88 Posted by Fetts (4534 posts) - - Show Bio

I love Oliver, but I think Bruce is just better overall. Speed, reflexes, durability, strength, skill, etc. The only thing Ollie might have a slight advantage in is gadgets. Other than that, GA doesn't have much on Bruce.

#89 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

batman would win. i thought about tower of babel and that convinced me to vote for bats. he's got a plan to beat ollie already im sure of it. he doesnt need prep ever against a leaguer cause he has already planned it

#90 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12392 posts) - - Show Bio

OK, back to business...

@stronger said:

David Cain was drunk????/Drunk??/ Prove it you liar....Prove he was f#cking drunk if you can...And I don't mean like he drunk one glass and then fight.I mean so drunk he couldn't even remember his name.

David is almost always drunk.....

Here's the fight where he was so drunk that the fight landed him in the hospital ....

Here is another little tidbit of drunkenness that was a bit badass (but still proves he's a drunk)

And here are a few quotes and claims of Davids drunkenness from other posters on various forums....

@cochise said:

Fantomex has a nervous system that's wired to feel no pain; he can create illusions to mess with the minds of his enemies; he's a wicked marksman; he's got the standard Weapon Plus enhancements: speed, agility, strength, healing (though not on Logan's level.)

David Cain is a drunk whose claim to fame is he gave Batman a good fight before getting beat down.

Moderator

Batman/Top-end David Cain (rather than drunken old Cain, who drops significantly on the list)

Bruce tracks Cain down, catches him while Cain is drunk, and puts him in the hospital (Bruce being beyond furious with Cain due to what Cain did to Cass).

It's worth noting that even drunk out of his mind, Cain bruised Bruce up in the fight, leaving visible wounds that later shocked Cass.

So here's Cain. In the hospital. In essentially a body cast, due to having his bones broken. He also has a catheter (important for later), as well as is completely hopped up on drugs (noted in the comic).

He gets visitors. Visitors who want him dead.

Cain asks the first guy in for a drink in his native language, noting that he knows how to do that in pretty much every language.

So after the above, Cain busts out of his bed, breaks off all his casts (!), removes his own catheter (!!!) and goes to the local bar. AFTER dressing himself in one of his victims suits. He then gets pissed. The bartender is understandably worried - Cain is actually has his IV bottle taped to his shoulder so it's still filling him with solution - but serves him anyway.

God Of Tokusatsu

Is the Cain at his best or old and drunk Cain?

Moderator

This is a pretty rough one.

1. Old, in-good-shape David Cain pulled a draw against Bruce until the fight ended on account of outside interference (Cass). Old, alcoholic David Cain was still capable of giving Bruce a hard time (when not soused).

occultdestroyer
Originally posted by Enyalus
I'm torn between the 'in character' rules and the 'full capacity' rules. Cain is usually drunk, isn't he?

I'd prolly side with Fury.
He's a drunkard, alright.

@jashro44: Is David in his prime, or is he a drunken fool? If he is in his prime, then David. More experience, more skill, way more pain tolerance, he's accurate enough to tag Dick. I'd say he'd win based on his fight with his daughter alone, actually being able to go toe to toe with Cass is more than what I can say for Grayson.

It is hard to make cases for David Cain since he has no on paper feats really he was only introduced in flash backs where your really do not see him do stuff. But he was supposed to be equal to Bronze Tiger and Deathestroke(pre power up) but you do not get much from flash back and current Cain is usually shown as a washed up drunk. even though recent Cain he was still able to kill at least 30 LOA members after being beaten to a bloody pulp stabbed and shot and left to bleed out and die in handcuffs. Of course this happened off panel

@gambler said:

@Super_SoldierXII said:

Let's say Cain being 'older' had a hand in Batman beating him ... a decade or two of experience between here and there would benefit as much as hinder.

Not if it was a decade of sitting on his @ss getting drunk everyday, which is exactly what he did. He was downing shots of whiskey right before Bats came in and laid the smackdown. It doesnt even appear as if Cain put up much resistance. He was hardly the man who had at one time led the League of Assassins. But I will say there is another time Batman defeats him (mind you this is still Cain past his prime). Where he at least fights back and briefly holds his own before going down for the count.

Still, it would be a mistake to think that Cain simply got older. He not only aged significantly, he became an alcoholic.

Oh yeah, wait, I'm a liar, who can't prove anything *echo echo echo* .....lol Prove it if I can? Challenge Complete...Oh and although Jash already corrected you on Deadshot....I'll show you David humiliating one his biggest fans .... "Deadshot"

@stronger said:

4.Batman avoid bullets for breakfast.What makes you think he won't evade arrows who are much slower than bullets?

So did Green Arrow when he fought Onomatopoeia, Deadshot, Grifter and Constantine Drakon (he dodged them at point blank range) ....... Batman dodges bullets too yeah, but several trick arrows are much harder to dodge if they explode, flash bang, release gas or nets....

I know Batman's armor can tank the explosions, his cowl can protect his face from the fumes, and he can cut out of the nets easily, but Ollie can shoot 3-5 at once. This is why his arrows are better than bullets.....

...... besides

When you are this good

Bullets just won't cut it....Just ask Deadshot...

@stronger said:

You come here and post random battles with Deathstroke or d-list metahumans.Even f...... Tim Drake can beat these metas....Deathstroke was holding back as always.

When Deathstroke fought Batman he gave him so much pain,before he went down, he needed weeks to recover and he was actually beaten by a tied up guy with mediocre skill.

He also beat him once.

Deathstroke made note of Ollie's skill with a sword and agility regardless of whether he held back or not, the "D-List Metas" show that Ollie can take on the same kind of baddies that Bruce can based on skill alone. The C listers like Grundy and Brick have given Batman trouble in the past, New 52 Ollie has beaten Lime and Light

The Rush Gang

And Midas

old Ollie has beaten Demons

Grundy

and Brick

Batman is more skilled than Deathstroke and that is the only reason why he was able to hold his own in the first place, him beating Slade once was due to Wilson being completely occupied and distracted (he stopped to beat Bruce down a bit then got blindsided) trying to kill someone else....I don't count that as a legit win since Bruce wasn't in one on one combat with Slade, he was fighting a man who was without his enhancements and aiming down sights at another target.....that's not a win.

@stronger said:

Batman hass also beaten way more powerful metas than Green Arrow has(Bane,Azrael,Artemis,The Trench,and even vampires and parademons etc).He has also held his own agaisnt Dark Supergirl,Superman and Wonder Woman etc.Green Arrow would fall around ten seconds.I have the scans.

I already showed Ollie beating whole groups of meta humans and C-listers (Who would stomp Bane, Azrael, Atremis etc). The fact that you think Batman held his own against Kryptonians and Wonder Woman is ... odd. Superman has always let Batman break his fingers trying to hit him, broke Bruce's ribs by accident, hit his possessed body with pressure points, or threatened to break every bone in his body.....Batman has never "held his own" but there you go lying again....just like "batman one shotted green arrow twice".....Wonder Woman has sparred with Batman on about two occasions letting him floor her one of those times and the other (while she was blind) tossed him like a doll. When she wasn't playing, she knocked him off a building and had him begging instead of fighting for her to stay. On another occasion, she took down the league (besides Superman), she downed Batman by a big stone to the ribs....that isn't holding his own....I have yet to see Batman holding his own against Supergirl, that'd be rich.......

@stronger said:

If you want me to continue this debate,you will adress me with respect,as I have done so far.Otherwise go do something else.

Get that hypocritical nonsense out of here, you haven't shown an ounce of respect from the get-go....as soon as you lied about Batman one-shotting Ollie and called me a Wonder fan, you don't get the right of my respect, especially after the other threads where I had to put you in place....yeah you'll get some respect alright lol, nice little touch at the end "go do something else" lolololololololololol.....

#91 Edited by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@ancient_0f_days: I won't respond to your other posts out of respect in comivine rules.

You called me a liar,but you are the one who said Shiva stomped Batman.Show me scans of Shiva stomping Batman in pure h2h,if you can.

Really?You have done two respect threads about Batman,yet you don't know Shiva respects him as an equal?

I honestly used to love Wonder Woman,until I got in contact with Wonder Woman fanboys.I admit it.I am a Batman fanboy,but I can back my character with feats.

How did you prove it?By posting random scans of Olie handling a holding back Slade, and some D-list metas?And for the record,Bane is a master martial artist.

I wish the insults to end.I am going to do the first step and do not respond to your other posts.I really hope you will do the same,if you want to continue the debate.

@jashro44 said:

@stronger:

1.Batman has beaten Deadshot at least once if I recall correct.Batman's statements can be proved wrong.I am not saying it's wrong,but I wouldn't base my arguement on a single statement.

Thing is its not a single statement. Its multiple statements and its a pretty big part of deadshots character (There is more to his character then his respect for batman but his respect for batman is still kind of important). He wont kill batman because he reminds him of his brother.

2.First of all,how does mindcontrolling reduce fighting skill or fighting prowess?Only when the character thinks he is fighting someone else,it's not fair.But nobody has proof of that.

First let me explain why I think her skill was hindered.

It doesn't always but the reason I believe it to be the case in public enemies is based off of how easily shiva goes down. When they had a previous encounter batman spent the whole match complementing her abilities and there are other instances which portray them as equals such as knightfall where he refers to her as the best/most dangerous fighter on the planet and asks her to retrain him (there is a reason he asked her to retrain him to his peak). Based off of there other showings and what batman has stated of her it seems fair to say him one shotting her shouldn't be the case if she were fighting to the best of her abilities. Batman himself commented that she could take and dish out the pain.

"She can take it as well as dish it out"

The reason I say mind control can hinder shiva is because its grodd controlling her movements. Think of it as a video game player controlling a character in call of duty or something. The skill is limited to the technique of the player controlling the guy. Its a similar concept with Grodd.

I do think batman can beat shiva for a majority (from what I know of lady shiva at least) but it wouldn't go down the way it did in superman/batman. She should do a lot better based on there other showings. Its the fact the showing in superman/batman isn't in her norm that makes me believe Grodd hindered her skill.

In the new 52 Nightwing series,Lady Shiva beat Batman with the help of a poisoned shuriken.It wasn't fair h2h combat.

I don't really think it makes her better then batman. It also took place when Dick was robin so for all we know batman has improved since then. I think all of there fights have had context and none of them really show who is the suepioer fighter.

1.I see your point.I didn't know Batman reminds Deadshot of his brother.If it's valid,then I am convinced.Good point btw.

2.I understand what you are saying but there comes another question to be put in the game.Why would Grodd chose to mind control Shiva if not for her fighting skill?

This reminds of a movie called the Game with Gerard Butler.I don't know if you 've seen it but it actually explains what you just posted.

Pre new 52,all of their fights indicated that either Shiva is slightly more skilled or they are just equals.

3.As for the new 52,I believe Batman is the superior h2h combatant because of more feats.

Well,the debate started cause a hothead said Shiva has 'stomped Batman in almost all their fights'.Shiva only stomped Batman once with the help of a poison dart in the new 52.I just wanted to make it clear.

#92 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

OK, back to business...

@stronger said:

David Cain was drunk????/Drunk??/ Prove it you liar....Prove he was f#cking drunk if you can...And I don't mean like he drunk one glass and then fight.I mean so drunk he couldn't even remember his name.

David is almost always drunk.....

Here's the fight where he was so drunk that the fight landed him in the hospital ....

Here is another little tidbit of drunkenness that was a bit badass (but still proves he's a drunk)

And here are a few quotes and claims of Davids drunkenness from other posters on various forums....

@cochise said:

Fantomex has a nervous system that's wired to feel no pain; he can create illusions to mess with the minds of his enemies; he's a wicked marksman; he's got the standard Weapon Plus enhancements: speed, agility, strength, healing (though not on Logan's level.)

David Cain is a drunk whose claim to fame is he gave Batman a good fight before getting beat down.

Sharpandpointies

Moderator

Batman/Top-end David Cain (rather than drunken old Cain, who drops significantly on the list)

Bruce tracks Cain down,

catches him while Cain is drunk

, and puts him in the hospital (Bruce being beyond furious with Cain due to what Cain did to Cass).

It's worth noting that even

drunk out of his mind

, Cain bruised Bruce up in the fight, leaving visible wounds that later shocked Cass.

So here's Cain. In the hospital. In essentially a body cast, due to having his bones broken. He also has a catheter (important for later), as well as is completely

hopped up on drugs

(noted in the comic).

He gets visitors. Visitors who want him dead.

Cain asks the first guy in for a drink

in his native language, noting that he knows how to do that in pretty much

every

language.

So after the above, Cain busts out of his bed, breaks off all his casts (!), removes his own catheter (!!!) and goes to the local bar. AFTER dressing himself in one of his victims suits. He then gets pissed. The bartender is understandably worried - Cain is actually has his IV bottle taped to his shoulder so it's still filling him with solution - but serves him anyway.

Guy1

God Of Tokusatsu

Is the Cain at his best or old and drunk Cain?

Sharpandpointies

Moderator

This is a pretty rough one.

1. Old, in-good-shape David Cain pulled a draw against Bruce until the fight ended on account of outside interference (Cass).

Old, alcoholic David Cain

was still capable of giving Bruce a hard time (when not soused).

occultdestroyer

Originally posted by Enyalus

I'm torn between the 'in character' rules and the 'full capacity' rules.

Cain is usually drunk, isn't he?

I'd prolly side with Fury.

He's a drunkard, alright.

@ancient_0f_days said:

@jashro44: Is David in his prime, or is he a drunken fool? If he is in his prime, then David. More experience, more skill, way more pain tolerance, he's accurate enough to tag Dick. I'd say he'd win based on his fight with his daughter alone, actually being able to go toe to toe with Cass is more than what I can say for Grayson.

@son_of_magnus said:

It is hard to make cases for David Cain since he has no on paper feats really he was only introduced in flash backs where your really do not see him do stuff. But he was supposed to be equal to Bronze Tiger and Deathestroke(pre power up) but you do not get much from flash back and current Cain is usually shown as a washed up drunk. even though recent Cain he was still able to kill at least 30 LOA members after being beaten to a bloody pulp stabbed and shot and left to bleed out and die in handcuffs. Of course this happened off panel

@gambler said:

@Super_SoldierXII said:

Let's say Cain being 'older' had a hand in Batman beating him ... a decade or two of experience between here and there would benefit as much as hinder.

Not if it was a decade of sitting on his @ss getting drunk everyday, which is exactly what he did. He was downing shots of whiskey right before Bats came in and laid the smackdown. It doesnt even appear as if Cain put up much resistance. He was hardly the man who had at one time led the League of Assassins. But I will say there is another time Batman defeats him (mind you this is still Cain past his prime). Where he at least fights back and briefly holds his own before going down for the count.

Still, it would be a mistake to think that Cain simply got older. He not only aged significantly, he became an alcoholic.

Oh yeah, wait, I'm a liar, who can't prove anything *echo echo echo* .....lol Prove it if I can? Challenge Complete...Oh and although Jash already corrected you on Deadshot....I'll show you David humiliating one his biggest fans .... "Deadshot"

@stronger said:

4.Batman avoid bullets for breakfast.What makes you think he won't evade arrows who are much slower than bullets?

So did Green Arrow when he fought Onomatopoeia, Deadshot, Grifter and Constantine Drakon (he dodged them at point blank range) ....... Batman dodges bullets too yeah, but several trick arrows are much harder to dodge if they explode, flash bang, release gas or nets....

I know Batman's armor can tank the explosions, his cowl can protect his face from the fumes, and he can cut out of the nets easily, but Ollie can shoot 3-5 at once. This is why his arrows are better than bullets.....

...... besides

When you are this good

Bullets just won't cut it....Just ask Deadshot...

@stronger said:

You come here and post random battles with Deathstroke or d-list metahumans.Even f...... Tim Drake can beat these metas....Deathstroke was holding back as always.

When Deathstroke fought Batman he gave him so much pain,before he went down, he needed weeks to recover and he was actually beaten by a tied up guy with mediocre skill.

He also beat him once.

Deathstroke made note of Ollie's skill with a sword and agility regardless of whether he held back or not, the "D-List Metas" show that Ollie can take on the same kind of baddies that Bruce can based on skill alone. The C listers like Grundy and Brick have given Batman trouble in the past, New 52 Ollie has beaten Lime and Light

The Rush Gang

And Midas

old Ollie has beaten Demons

Grundy

and Brick

Batman is more skilled than Deathstroke and that is the only reason why he was able to hold his own in the first place, him beating Slade once was due to Wilson being completely occupied and distracted (he stopped to beat Bruce down a bit then got blindsided) trying to kill someone else....I don't count that as a legit win since Bruce wasn't in one on one combat with Slade, he was fighting a man who was without his enhancements and aiming down sights at another target.....that's not a win.

@stronger said:

Batman hass also beaten way more powerful metas than Green Arrow has(Bane,Azrael,Artemis,The Trench,and even vampires and parademons etc).He has also held his own agaisnt Dark Supergirl,Superman and Wonder Woman etc.Green Arrow would fall around ten seconds.I have the scans.

I already showed Ollie beating whole groups of meta humans and C-listers (Who would stomp Bane, Azrael, Atremis etc). The fact that you think Batman held his own against Kryptonians and Wonder Woman is ... odd. Superman has always let Batman break his fingers trying to hit him, broke Bruce's ribs by accident, hit his possessed body with pressure points, or threatened to break every bone in his body.....Batman has never "held his own" but there you go lying again....just like "batman one shotted green arrow twice".....Wonder Woman has sparred with Batman on about two occasions letting him floor her one of those times and the other (while she was blind) tossed him like a doll. When she wasn't playing, she knocked him off a building and had him begging instead of fighting for her to stay. On another occasion, she took down the league (besides Superman), she downed Batman by a big stone to the ribs....that isn't holding his own....I have yet to see Batman holding his own against Supergirl, that'd be rich.......

@stronger said:

If you want me to continue this debate,you will adress me with respect,as I have done so far.Otherwise go do something else.

Get that hypocritical nonsense out of here, you haven't shown an ounce of respect from the get-go....as soon as you lied about Batman one-shotting Ollie and called me a Wonder fan, you don't get the right of my respect, especially after the other threads where I had to put you in place....yeah you'll get some respect alright lol, nice little touch at the end "go do something else" lolololololololololol.....

1.You said David Cain is drunk,but again he makes assasins look like amateurs.I don't think he was drunk the way you put it.You never even seen how drunk people behave.Drunk people can't fight or protect theimselves in any way.And yet Cain could manage it.I agree Cain wasn't in his prime,but still it's not like he was a ragdoll or something.

2.Are you familiar with Azrael or Artemis?No offense ,but you are acting like they are the C-listers.Azrael is a 10 tonner and Artemis is a 15 tonner who goes toe to toe with Wonder Woman and actually has beaten her once.Batman has beaten Grundy twice.By mostly using h2h.Let me see GA accomplishing that.Hell,even Wildcat has stomped Grundy h2h.

I am disregarding the insults and going to your points.

Batman vs Dark Supergirl

http://s289.photobucket.com/user/darknight2k/media/batvsdsupergirl-sg1.jpg.html

http://s289.photobucket.com/user/darknight2k/media/batvsdsupergirl-sg2.jpg.html

http://s289.photobucket.com/user/darknight2k/media/batvsdsupergirl-sg3.jpg.html

http://s289.photobucket.com/user/darknight2k/media/batvsdsupergirl-sg4.jpg.html

Clearly holds his own against her until Superman and Wonder Woman comes.

Batman vs Wonder Woman

http://s289.photobucket.com/user/darknight2k/media/Good%20Showings/Meta%20Humans-Super%20Powered/jlaleagueofone-batvswwoman1.jpg.html

http://s289.photobucket.com/user/darknight2k/media/Good%20Showings/Meta%20Humans-Super%20Powered/jlaleagueofone-batvswwoman2.jpg.html

http://s289.photobucket.com/user/darknight2k/media/Good%20Showings/Meta%20Humans-Super%20Powered/jlaleagueofone-batvswwoman3.jpg.html

http://s289.photobucket.com/user/darknight2k/media/Good%20Showings/Meta%20Humans-Super%20Powered/jlaleagueofone-batvswwoman4.jpg.html

Even though Batman lost that fight,Batman easily countered her hits and escaped her lasso.

Batman vs Superman

Just check out Batman Hush to see a how Batman with a few seconds prep is holding his own against a bloodlusted Superman.

3.As I said,I really wish the conflict to end,so I am not responding to your last paragraph.

And for the record,you have never clearly won a debate with me.

#93 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12392 posts) - - Show Bio
@stronger said:

@ancient_0f_days: I won't respond to your other posts out of respect in comivine rules.

You mean the ones where I reversed your insults on you? Smart move, you saved some face....

@stronger said:

You called me a liar,but you are the one who said Shiva stomped Batman.Show me scans of Shiva stomping Batman in pure h2h,if you can.

Really?You have done two respect threads about Batman,yet you don't know Shiva respects him as an equal?

The new 52 fight between them, and the fact that her skill level is consistently higher, and she one shotted nightwing, so yeah, she stomped Batman....I know she respects him as an equal, but they aren't equals in skill, that's why he needed Robins help to beat her lol.....

@stronger said:

I honestly used to love Wonder Woman,until I got in contact with Wonder Woman fanboys.I admit it.I am a Batman fanboy,but I can back my character with feats.

Show me Batman oneshotting Green Arrow, if you cannot, then this statement is BS. and another lie.

@stronger said:

How did you prove it?By posting random scans of Olie handling a holding back Slade, and some D-list metas?And for the record,Bane is a master martial artist.

Lol how are they random? Batman faces humans on a regular and has trouble.....lol. And for the record, Master martial artist =/= Master swordsman .... Bane has barely any sword feats besides fighting Ras and losing....

@stronger said:

I wish the insults to end.I am going to do the first step and do not respond to your other posts.I really hope you will do the same,if you want to continue the debate.

This is a joke right, you started this, called me a fag, a 10 year old, said I had a gay 5 year old bro, and paragraphs more of obscene nonsense and now you are gonna "take the first step"? are you joking? LOL cool story bro...you do that.

#94 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger said:

@ancient_0f_days: I won't respond to your other posts out of respect in comivine rules.

You mean the ones where I reversed your insults on you? Smart move, you saved some face....

@stronger said:

You called me a liar,but you are the one who said Shiva stomped Batman.Show me scans of Shiva stomping Batman in pure h2h,if you can.

Really?You have done two respect threads about Batman,yet you don't know Shiva respects him as an equal?

The new 52 fight between them, and the fact that her skill level is consistently higher, and she one shotted nightwing, so yeah, she stomped Batman....I know she respects him as an equal, but they aren't equals in skill, that's why he needed Robins help to beat her lol.....

@stronger said:

I honestly used to love Wonder Woman,until I got in contact with Wonder Woman fanboys.I admit it.I am a Batman fanboy,but I can back my character with feats.

Show me Batman oneshotting Green Arrow, if you cannot, then this statement is BS. and another lie.

@stronger said:

How did you prove it?By posting random scans of Olie handling a holding back Slade, and some D-list metas?And for the record,Bane is a master martial artist.

Lol how are they random? Batman faces humans on a regular and has trouble.....lol. And for the record, Master martial artist =/= Master swordsman .... Bane has barely any sword feats besides fighting Ras and losing....

@stronger said:

I wish the insults to end.I am going to do the first step and do not respond to your other posts.I really hope you will do the same,if you want to continue the debate.

This is a joke right, you started this, called me a fag, a 10 year old, said I had a gay 5 year old bro, and paragraphs more of obscene nonsense and now you are gonna "take the first step"? are you joking? LOL cool story bro...you do that.

1.I am not joking at all.I don't want to insult you any more,as I don't want you to insult me anymore.I apologize if I did in the past.

2.Show me scans of Shiva stomping Batman in h2h,if you want to prove your point.

3.Batman always held back against Ollie.In the scan I showed you,Bats took down Oliver with one single pressure point,while trying to reason with him.

4.Batman has handled metas more powerful than those.Martial arts practice contains weapons.

#95 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12392 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger said:

1.You said David Cain is drunk,but again he makes assasins look like amateurs.I don't think he was drunk the way you put it.You never even seen how drunk people behave.Drunk people can't fight or protect theimselves in any way.And yet Cain could manage it.I agree Cain wasn't in his prime,but still it's not like he was a ragdoll or something.

I said Cain was drunk, Gambler said Cain was drunk, Sharpnpointies said Cain was drunk.....the comics said Cain was drunk....but I guess cus he wasn't vomiting into a toilet, it doesn't count.........Concession accepted.

@stronger said:

2.Are you familiar with Azrael or Artemis?No offense ,but you are acting like they are the C-listers.Azrael is a 10 tonner and Artemis is a 15 tonner who goes toe to toe with Wonder Woman and actually has beaten her once.Batman has beaten Grundy twice.By mostly using h2h.Let me see GA accomplishing that.Hell,even Wildcat has stomped Grundy h2h.

I am disregarding the insults and going to your points.

Azrael almost got owned by Bane, and got back at him later, then he beat Batman like a chump on the ice...Artemis never went toe to toe with Diana, maybe when they were both Wonder Woman and were at the same level of strength.....but every time she lost badly.....liar. Oh so beating Grundy with a broken bow isn't good enough...cool, cus Batman almost lost fighting Brick...Ollie beat Midas, Lime and Light, the Rush Gang, Deadshot, Demons....but naw they're just lame ole c-listers lol

and you also disregarded every other point I made like arrows vs bullets, Ollie beating Batman's villains and C-listers (forgot to add clayface), you avoided Deathstroke altogether,

@stronger said:

Batman vs Dark Supergirl

Clearly holds his own against her until Superman and Wonder Woman comes.

if he is holding his own then why is Supergirl helping him out by freezing Dark Kara, all batman did was flash her, then he got his legs froze, he didn't hold anything.........Cap Context strikes again....

@stronger said:

Batman vs Wonder Woman

Even though Batman lost that fight,Batman easily countered her hits and escaped her lasso.

She isn't trying to hurt him badly, she's talking to him while this is going on and he didn't counter anything, he dodged and tripped her once, how is that holding his own?? Post the rest of it where she gets provoked and without any effort at all breaks his rib cage with a rock....holding your own is putting up a fight....he did nothing of the sort. Explain to me what context is in your own words? If you even know what it is.....

@stronger said:

Batman vs Superman

Just check out Batman Hush to see a how Batman with a few seconds prep is holding his own against a bloodlusted Superman.

He broke his fingers on that one punch he got off and stated that Superman was still holding back since he could've killed him at any point ....... wow....want to post where Batman does so well that he breaks his hand, or his ribs? No context whatsoever, nothing short of a lie....bloodlusted superman is in sacrafice where he knocked wonder woman from the sun to earth and scorched her face with heat vision......I'd like to see you say batman would hold her own like she did by fighting back the entire time...

@stronger said:

3.As I said,I really wish the conflict to end,so I am not responding to your last paragraph.

And for the record,you have never clearly won a debate with me.

You started the conflict, I've won this debate.....My argument was that Batman doesn't stomp Ollie.....you lost.

#96 Edited by Ancient_0f_Days (12392 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger said:

1.I am not joking at all.I don't want to insult you any more,as I don't want you to insult me anymore.I apologize if I did in the past.

2.Show me scans of Shiva stomping Batman in h2h,if you want to prove your point.

3.Batman always held back against Ollie.In the scan I showed you,Bats took down Oliver with one single pressure point,while trying to reason with him.

4.Batman has handled metas more powerful than those.Martial arts practice contains weapons.

You know what....I believe you, but now that I see how full of it you were, and now you want to act like we both made equal mistakes here...na, not gonna happen, i'm gonna do what I shoulda done a while ago.....

I saw the new 52 fight between Shiva, Nightwing, Robin and Batman and she handled them all... you've seen it...I've proved enough as it is, you haven't even proven your first point.

Batman didn't one shot Ollie, he hit a pressure point and tackled him, the fight wasn't even concluded...you liar.....

The last point isn't even relevant since that isn't what I'm even aiming to prove....I already proved it but anyway.....

I've had my fun of exposing who you really are.....now it's time to end this little game.

#97 Edited by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger said:

1.You said David Cain is drunk,but again he makes assasins look like amateurs.I don't think he was drunk the way you put it.You never even seen how drunk people behave.Drunk people can't fight or protect theimselves in any way.And yet Cain could manage it.I agree Cain wasn't in his prime,but still it's not like he was a ragdoll or something.

I said Cain was drunk, Gambler said Cain was drunk, Sharpnpointies said Cain was drunk.....the comics said Cain was drunk....but I guess cus he wasn't vomiting into a toilet, it doesn't count.........Concession accepted.

@stronger said:

2.Are you familiar with Azrael or Artemis?No offense ,but you are acting like they are the C-listers.Azrael is a 10 tonner and Artemis is a 15 tonner who goes toe to toe with Wonder Woman and actually has beaten her once.Batman has beaten Grundy twice.By mostly using h2h.Let me see GA accomplishing that.Hell,even Wildcat has stomped Grundy h2h.

I am disregarding the insults and going to your points.

Azrael almost got owned by Bane, and got back at him later, then he beat Batman like a chump on the ice...Artemis never went toe to toe with Diana, maybe when they were both Wonder Woman and were at the same level of strength.....but every time she lost badly.....liar. Oh so beating Grundy with a broken bow isn't good enough...cool, cus Batman almost lost fighting Brick...Ollie beat Midas, Lime and Light, the Rush Gang, Deadshot, Demons....but naw they're just lame ole c-listers lol

and you also disregarded every other point I made like arrows vs bullets, Ollie beating Batman's villains and C-listers (forgot to add clayface), you avoided Deathstroke altogether,

@stronger said:

Batman vs Dark Supergirl

Clearly holds his own against her until Superman and Wonder Woman comes.

if he is holding his own then why is Supergirl helping him out by freezing Dark Kara, all batman did was flash her, then he got his legs froze, he didn't hold anything.........Cap Context strikes again....

@stronger said:

Batman vs Wonder Woman

Even though Batman lost that fight,Batman easily countered her hits and escaped her lasso.

She isn't trying to hurt him badly, she's talking to him while this is going on and he didn't counter anything, he dodged and tripped her once, how is that holding his own?? Post the rest of it where she gets provoked and without any effort at all breaks his rib cage with a rock....holding your own is putting up a fight....he did nothing of the sort. Explain to me what context is in your own words? If you even know what it is.....

@stronger said:

Batman vs Superman

Just check out Batman Hush to see a how Batman with a few seconds prep is holding his own against a bloodlusted Superman.

He broke his fingers on that one punch he got off and stated that Superman was still holding back since he could've killed him at any point ....... wow....want to post where Batman does so well that he breaks his hand, or his ribs? No context whatsoever, nothing short of a lie....bloodlusted superman is in sacrafice where he knocked wonder woman from the sun to earth and scorched her face with heat vision......I'd like to see you say batman would hold her own like she did by fighting back the entire time...

@stronger said:

3.As I said,I really wish the conflict to end,so I am not responding to your last paragraph.

And for the record,you have never clearly won a debate with me.

You started the conflict, I've won this debate.....My argument was that Batman doesn't stomp Ollie.....you lost.

1.Because Mods say something,it doesn't mean it's valid you know.Slavery was once accepted by public opinion.It doesn't mean it was right.

2.Azrael is a f........ 10 tonner.And Batman gave him a good fight in that issue.Anyway Batman has beaten Azrael before so....

Artemis would stomp the crap out of the metas you posted.

I wasn't lying.I recall an instance where Artemis beat WW.I don't know if they were on the same stats,but even so,beating the princess of the amazons is a great feat.

3.Supergirl gets in the way trying to protect him and he pushes her away.He uses flashbangs to slow her down until Supes and WW come to aid him.He was buying time.

You alone said,holding your own is putting up a fight.Where didn't you see Batman putting up a fight against them?Batman fought them all.I didn't say he would win.I said he could fight them even though he is a street leveler.

About the Superman fight,you are refering to another instance.I am talking about the Hush story line.

4.Clayface isn't a C-lister at all.Bullets vs arrows in terms of speed is no contest.Bullets are much faster.

I already said Deathstroke was holding back in his fight with Ollie.

5.I am not the one who busted into this thread calling people liars and Captain Contexts.I insulted you back to defend myself from your insults.Go back to your previous posts and see.I really don't like to insult people and that's why I wish to stop this.I am not asking you to be friends with me.I am just asking for some respect and to continue this debate nice and easy without insults of any kind.Now if you wanna continue this,I have no prob.I can keep belching you all day and night.That's what you want?

You only won the debate inside your head.You didn't post anything I can't counter.

#99 Edited by jashro44 (25422 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger:

1.I see your point.I didn't know Batman reminds Deadshot of his brother.If it's valid,then I am convinced.Good point btw.

2.I understand what you are saying but there comes another question to be put in the game.Why would Grodd chose to mind control Shiva if not for her fighting skill?

I don't know. Maybe she still had access to her technique and it was just the way she chooses to use her technique.

This reminds of a movie called the Game with Gerard Butler.I don't know if you 've seen it but it actually explains what you just posted.

Pre new 52,all of their fights indicated that either Shiva is slightly more skilled or they are just equals.

I haven't seen that movie but I think we are in agreement. Personally I think batman and shiva are about equal skill wise.

3.As for the new 52,I believe Batman is the superior h2h combatant because of more feats.

Well,the debate started cause a hothead said Shiva has 'stomped Batman in almost all their fights'.Shiva only stomped Batman once with the help of a poison dart in the new 52.I just wanted to make it clear.

All right.

#100 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (6612 posts) - - Show Bio

So. Much. Rage!!!!

Batman wins a solid majority.

Consequently this thread, and the fashion with which the debate is being held herein, is one of the reasons I'm oh so very rarely posting in Comic Vine anymore ...