Hrm... this is a very tough one. Especially with 'Standard Gear' pre New 52, Ollie's pretty much forgone 'trick' arrows except in very specific circumstances (unless that'd change in the last 2 years or so). There is amble cover for Nightwing and Gambit to move up and through. But that is still /alot/ of ground to cover. Team 2 while they do have some potent ranged, attacks, I think team 1's ranged attacks have better accuracy over distance and over all more stopping power. I think Team 2's best bet is to get into close combat range. I think Nightwing is easily the best hand to hand fighter out of these 4, and while I don't thing Gambit is nesseciarly a /better/ fighter than either Ollie or Hawkeye, his power is alot more dangerous the closer you get to him.
I'm probably letting my fanboyish love for Ollie color my judgment here but I think Team Green Arrow/Hawkeye can do this. I think they've got the precision at range to incapicate their opponents before they get close enough to really wreck them. And Hawkeye still has some very fancy arrows to bring to the fight, and they can keep moving and create distance and firing lines that Team 2 has to move up through.
As always thoug,h K4tzm4n, a really good fight that leaves me uncertain about my picks.
@Scarbearer: Thanks. To keep matters balanced, assume Ollie is indeed packing the standard assortment of arrows we've seen him use (explosive, glue, sonic, grappling, etc)
@k4tzm4n: Groovy. I definatly think Ollie and Clint can take this. It won't be easy by any means, because even at Medium range things can even up quick because of how much destruction Gambit's charged object shenanigans can cause, But I think if we were to run this fight like 100 times they could manage to take a small majority.
@Deadcool: They're definitely good h2h combatants, but Grayson/Gambit definitely have the edge in that department. Their agility/reflexes will also make them rather difficult targets.
@k4tzm4n: Maybe, but Clint and Ollie have shown great feats using arrows, and they ar damn fast, they can defeat people with guns, even skiled marksmen...
@Deadcool: They're definitely good h2h combatants, but Grayson/Gambit definitely have the edge in that department. Their agility/reflexes will also make them rather difficult targets.
I disagree that Gambit is a better h2h combatant than Ollie.
@Deadcool: They're definitely good h2h combatants, but Grayson/Gambit definitely have the edge in that department. Their agility/reflexes will also make them rather difficult targets.
I disagree that Gambit is a better h2h combatant than Ollie.
I know he trained under the same guy that worked with Slade, but looking back on my GA reading, I don't really recall any purely h2h showings. But you've read more Green Arrow, so I'll take your word for it
I know he trained under the same guy that worked with Slade, but looking back on my GA reading, I don't really recall any h2h showings. But you've read more Green Arrow, so I'll take your word for it
He didn't work with Slade, he was Slade's tutor.
As far as formal training go, I'd be lying if I said I recall Gambit having trained with anyone worth noting or ever exhibiting serious skill in unarmed combat without relying in his enhanced attributes or his powers. It's not that Ollie demonstrated astonishing h2h feats, but the few things he did showed superior technical knowledge to Gambit's own. Would those skills make a difference in a Gambit vs Ollie fight? Unlikely, but Remy's victory wouldn't mean he's better skill-wise.
@Morpheus_: The word "taught" always looked weird to me, so I just stated worked with. But I knew he went to him for additional training.
Remy is a mixed bag for me, because when talking about hand-to-hand, I tend to factor in his reflexes/agility/bo-staff abilities. I don't recall any specific training we've seen him undergo, but we know he's damn good at savate and stick fighting. When he learned, I have no idea, because we saw him beat up a few grown men when he was just a child, lol. I also remember Storm went to him for training, but my memory is fuzzy on those issues since I haven't read his first appearances in Uncanny since I purchased them years ago.
I'd have to go with team 1. The distance certainly gives them an advantage over Nightwing and Gambit. True Gambit may have his cards but I highly doubt he can throw it that far. However Nightwing and Gambit are both borderline superhumanly agile so it'll be tough to actually hit them but with no knowledge upon the arrows of the duo archers, I believe an explosive arrow can catch them off guard and that would eventually be there downfall. The distance greatly favors the archers in this situation but IF Nightwing/Gambit are able to close the distance, they might win due to how much Nightwing exceeds both competitors in combat and Gambit due to his staff and his agility but this is still highly unlikely. I see team 1 with more chance of winning than team 2 due to distance and the battle being that of a random encounter.
Nightwing and Gambit ftw. They both pretty much dodge projectiles for a living and thats the only advantage the other team has
They've dodged regular projectiles from regular thugs/gang members. The best Gambit has ever done if I recall correctly was catching mortar round but I believe I'm wrong. This is Hawkeye and Green Arrow that they're up against. Hawkeye is arguably the best archer in comics aside from possibly Bullseye and Ollie's up there. Their arrows aren't just regular projectiles either. They can range from explosives to sonics ect. I can see the Archers catching team 2 off guard with an explosive arrow after firing off other types of arrows and then killing them afterwards in prior to the explosive arrow. The distance favors team 1 far too greatly.
Nightwing and Gambit ftw. They both pretty much dodge projectiles for a living and thats the only advantage the other team has
They've dodged regular projectiles from regular thugs/gang members. The best Gambit has ever done if I recall correctly was catching mortar round but I believe I'm wrong. This is Hawkeye and Green Arrow that they're up against. Hawkeye is arguably the best archer in comics aside from possibly Bullseye and Ollie's up there. Their arrows aren't just regular projectiles either. They can range from explosives to sonics ect. I can see the Archers catching team 2 off guard with an explosive arrow after firing off other types of arrows and then killing them afterwards in prior to the explosive arrow. The distance favors team 1 far too greatly.
Well, Gambit has dodged projectiles from Rax, who was superhuman in all physical stats, where Ollie and Clints physicality is baseline human their ability to shoot arrows and aim is said to be above human. Gambit was also able to deflect bullet/laser fire from Forge who was often said to be a "crack shot" and I imagine bullets travel faster than arrows
Nightwing and Gambit ftw. They both pretty much dodge projectiles for a living and thats the only advantage the other team has
They've dodged regular projectiles from regular thugs/gang members. The best Gambit has ever done if I recall correctly was catching mortar round but I believe I'm wrong. This is Hawkeye and Green Arrow that they're up against. Hawkeye is arguably the best archer in comics aside from possibly Bullseye and Ollie's up there. Their arrows aren't just regular projectiles either. They can range from explosives to sonics ect. I can see the Archers catching team 2 off guard with an explosive arrow after firing off other types of arrows and then killing them afterwards in prior to the explosive arrow. The distance favors team 1 far too greatly.
Well, Gambit has dodged projectiles from Rax, who was superhuman in all physical stats, where Ollie and Clints physicality is baseline human their ability to shoot arrows and aim is said to be above human. Gambit was also able to deflect bullet/laser fire from Forge who was often said to be a "crack shot" and I imagine bullets travel faster than arrows
I'm aware of what Gambit has done (Gambit fan) but with this distance, the versatile arrows, and the archers whom have nigh-perfect aim, they win.
I'm aware of what Gambit has done (Gambit fan) but with this distance, the versatile arrows, and the archers whom have nigh-perfect aim, they win.
Gambit has near perfect aim as well though, so does Nightwing,
Feats to prove this? Even if this is true, it isn't anywhere on level liaison to the archers.
@serum said:
Where is the moderator of this forum? I want the moderator to face me .. Where is the Moderator?
I'm tired comics of kids, tired of posting these stupid fans of comics with kids, they think? that Goku can beat Superman with a Super-Power? Haa Haa .. incredibly stupid
MODERATOR .. I demand that you change the stupid name of this forum (comic vine) .. I want you to put this name on this forum - "Movie Vine"
otherwise, I will have to go to another forum to continue to troll, I have no other option, I will not continue to create and post the movie version and users respond with their silly and childish versions of comics
I'm not so childish as to continue to post comics version, the movie version is at least a little more serious and a little more tolerable for the adult audience
I should be moderator for Movie Vine, I demand the Moderator to allow the birth of this new forum and I demand the moderator opens the doors to this new moderator that I am
and soon my standard should impose
and to begin with I use the Avatar of the king of kings, the Super-Hero True, Phoenix Jones, that's right, Phoenix Jones is the man, he is the leader of the movement of Super-Heroes in Seattle
I'm impatient and I can not wait more .. I will be the new moderator of Movie Vine
@PunkMastaFlex: What feats would you like me to show exactly, you said yourself that you are familiar with Gambit...Hawkeye is the superior marksman, but Gambit is faster and can get a card within the area of his target, in which Hawkeye does not have any physical human stats, and Gambit has a better chance of dodging.
Nightwing has dodged Arrows and bullets from Roy Harper, he could do the same here
@PunkMastaFlex: What feats would you like me to show exactly, you said yourself that you are familiar with Gambit...Hawkeye is the superior marksman, but Gambit is faster and can get a card within the area of his target, in which Hawkeye does not have any physical human stats, and Gambit has a better chance of dodging. Nightwing has dodged Arrows and bullets from Roy Harper, he could do the same here
Feats of how and why Gambit and Nightwing could be expert marksman liaison to the archers.
With this distance, Hawkeye can simply shoot the cards out of the air and I still highly doubt Gambit's cards can travel that far or that fast. Gambit's going to dodge an explosive arrow that he magically knows right off the bat? Why won't he assume it's a regular arrow since that's what Ollie and Hawkeye would fire off first to lead onto the conclusion that they're only utilizing regular arrows? It's not like team 2 would automatically detect which arrow is which. They're not going to be able to tell what any arrow does before they see it and by then, it'll be too late.
@Deadcool: It's my understanding Ollie only beat Slade with an assortment of trick arrows and Slade actually wanted to lose so he could speak to Drakon in prison.
@PunkMastaFlex: I believe that's the very same one I'm thinking of. It's the one where he has all of the glue traps and it ends with Slade being arrested, right? I could have sworn the whole point was Slade wanted to get taken into custody so he could speak with Drakon.
@PunkMastaFlex: I believe that's the very same one I'm thinking of. It's the one where he has all of the glue traps and it ends with Slade being arrested, right? I could have sworn the whole point was Slade wanted to get taken into custody so he could speak with Drakon.
@Morpheus_: The word "taught" always looked weird to me, so I just stated worked with. But I knew he went to him for additional training.
I don't have an issue with the word. Slade's got powers, but it stands to reason that he sought a master combatant to make him more than that. It's one of the most sensible Deathstroke retcons around, and I got to admit I liked that Ollie studied under him, and a dozen others to improve himself.
Remy is a mixed bag for me, because when talking about hand-to-hand, I tend to factor in his reflexes/agility/bo-staff abilities. I don't recall any specific training we've seen him undergo, but we know he's damn good at savate and stick fighting. When he learned, I have no idea, because we saw him beat up a few grown men when he was just a child, lol. I also remember Storm went to him for training, but my memory is fuzzy on those issues since I haven't read his first appearances in Uncanny since I purchased them years ago.
I agree with pretty much everything you stated here. Remy is very good at bojutsu and savate, but unless I misremember, he was stated to be "highly skilled" in them, not a master. While he is by no means unskilled, I think those skills along with his various abilities, as you stated, enable him to perform at the impressive levels he usually does. Ollie doesn't have anything additional to fall back on, so he had to train himself from the start in a variety of forms. Even though his speciality was in the use of a sword, he showed tactical and technical aptitude in the art of fighting that I have not really seen from Remy. There's a cool feat in which he calculates the outcome of a fight and leaves himself open to be grabbed by an opponent from behind because that would later enable him to take down two others with greater ease. And at the end of his training with Natas and the other masters, he had to fight and beat all of them (excluding Natas, who send them to kill him as a final lesson) in order to survive.
I don't have an issue with the word. Slade's got powers, but it stands to reason that he sought a master combatant to make him more than that. It's one of the most sensible Deathstroke retcons around, and I got to admit I liked that Ollie studied under him, and a dozen others to improve himself
No, not an issue with the definition of the word, but literally using the word. It's a pet-peeve of mine.
I agree with pretty much everything you stated here.
It's my understanding Ollie only beat Slade with an assortment of trick arrows and Slade actually wanted to lose so he could speak to Drakon in prison.
I don't have an issue with the word. Slade's got powers, but it stands to reason that he sought a master combatant to make him more than that. It's one of the most sensible Deathstroke retcons around, and I got to admit I liked that Ollie studied under him, and a dozen others to improve himself
No, not an issue with the definition of the word, but literally using the word. It's a pet-peeve of mine.
It just seems...incorrect...when typing it. I don't know, man, I don't question why you painted only 30% of your cave neon green and the rest red. It doesn't match, but you don't see me cramping your taste!
Close fight, I'd probably go team 2 on this. I think the archers have a very wide variety and ample distance here that can turn the tide of the battle but team 2 outclasses them in agility and speed by a good enough margin to dodge some arrows and the amount of cover they have is ample enough to close the gap. I would not be surprised if Gambit and Nightwing also head up to the roof tops which would give them an edge in cover, a chance to launch their own attacks and they should feel right at home up there.
Archers take this, Hawkeye and Green Arrow are not just great marksman but great combatants, Hawkeye took on The Hand and Green Arrow has fought an island of assassins.
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