Green Arrow (CW) vs Red Skull (MCU)

Green Arrow:

VS

Red Skull:

In this battle, Green Arrow will take on the Red Skull, who will win?

CW Green Arrow, MCU Red Skull

Fight takes place on the plane where Cap and Red Skull had their final fight. Starting distance is 50 feet.

Both are bloodlusted. Victory by ko or death

Round 1:

Ollie has his bow

Red Skull is unarmed

Round 2:

Ollie has his standard gear

Red Skull has the gun he used against Cap in the final fight

Who wins?

Red Skull is stronger but socks at fighting...so. Probably Arrow

Ollie would take both if I'm not mistaken the red couldn't take an arrow

Probably Arrow

It can go either way IMO. Oliver for a slight edge since I think he is more skilled and has fought meta humans I view as similar to red skull.

He doesn't have any arrows in round 1, just his bow

Both rounds? Any reasons?

Think there's a difference in the rounds?

Arrow. Red Skull is overhyped.

@arcus: Well Red Skull didn't seem to agile or mobile from what I remember (and caps better agility feats come later, I feel Steve improved after the first Avenger) so Oliver could probably handle him without much trouble in round 2 because of that. Round one would be tough though.

R1 skull due mainly to stat advantage

R2 ollie with ease

Oliver for both

I'm a guy who really dislikes Arrow overall and even I think that Green Arrow wins this handily, Red Skull's only noteworthy feat is fighting a completely inexperienced Captain America, if they were to fight again now Cap would stomp him with absolute ease

Oliver literally just beat Damian Darhk in melee who has all of Red Skull's strength, but also blurring speed and League of Assassins training, in less than a minute. This isn't going to be a close fight, Oliver will telegraph and dance around all of Red Skull's moves. Arrow is so underrated.

Well he didn't technically beat Darhk. He took the upper hand and Darhk decided to resort to his magic. And Darhk has beaten him earlier, you can argue its due to Olivers morals but Oliver doesn't have a grudge with red skull like he does Darhk.

Red skull has the strength but not the skill still round 1 will be hard for arrow he takes round 2 tho.

@jashro44: The battle forum rules state that we're using characters at their best by default. You should know that, Mr. Mod Man. AKA Oliver will be in the mindset of winning at any cost, which is the mindset he used to floor Darhk. Darhk only beat the less dangerous, morally inhibited "beacon of hope" Green Arrow; still impressive for Darhk since he curbed that Ollie, but serious Ollie is a whole different game. As evident by him, well, beating Darhk.

Of course Darhk won overall. I stated that "Oliver literally just beat Damian Darhk in melee", emphasis on melee. Damian won with magic but Red Skull does not have magic. Simply put, he will have to fight Oliver like Damian Darhk did initially, AKA Oliver's advantage.

Arrow is so underrated. Oliver had absolutely no problem at all outfighting super soldiers far superior to MCU super soldiers back in season 2. He was only inhibited by the fact that THESE super soldiers are totally invincible to conventional means. You can shoot them up, fill them with arrows, stab em in the head, wail on them with peak human strength as hard as you can, get crushed by debris, abandoned at sea, or fall out of buildings; nothing even slows them down for long.

The showrunners still went out of their way to portray Oliver and other characters as skilled enough to overcome the physical difference easily; they could have just as easily had Oliver be overwhelmed by strength and speed, but instead they went out of their way to show that he's skilled enough to outfight characters 20x more powerful than himself. The problem is that even though he beat the crap out of them for two minutes straight without being touched, EVENTUALLY they were bound to win just through sheer resilience. Red Skull is not as resilient as a Mirakuru user and also lacks their healing factor. He's closer to Damian Darhk or Vandal Savage, but without their speed. And Oliver injures them just fine.

Bottom line, Oliver in season 2 was skilled enough to telegraph every single move that a basic brawler like Red Skull could make, strength doesn't even matter. And since Skull isn't SO strong that he can tank all of Oliver's attacks... this will be a clean win for the Green Arrow. Red Skull literally has no advantage that helps him. He's stronger... but will never be able to touch Oliver. End of story.

Round one could go either way, Queen easily wins round two. Red Skull wasn't impressive tbh.

Oliver should win both

@farkam: How is he overhyped? He's barely used on here.

Best of there abilities within the limits of there personality. If Olivers morals hinder him against people like Anarky I don't see why they shouldn't at all here. Not saying that because Oliver lost to Anarky he loses to red skull but you get the point.

Fair enough.

Well I don't think red skull is a master martial artist I imagine he has basic army training at least. Even though Cyrus Gold might have been faster in raw speed I think skull has better reflexes. And I'm mostly talking about the hand to hand round. I agree Oliver wins the weapon round easily.

I think Red Skull is more durable than Damien Darhk. Stronger to considering he dented Steve's shield. I think that is above Darhk tossing Oliver at the pole.

I don't know about that.

Skull tanked Cap's hits, both with and without his shield, sent him flying with a single strike and dented his first shield with a punch. I think Grundy and Dahrk are the most physically superhuman opponents Oliver has fought, although comparing them to Skull is another issue. Oliver can win the standard gear round if he gets a headshot, and ideally uses and explosive arrow, and might be able to pull off a win in the close combat round, given his considerable advantage in skill and training. However, if Skull gets close enough he has the sheer strength to beat Oliver to death.

@jashro44: @nickzambuto: I figured Darhk used his tk when he threw Ollie and dented the pole-added extra force to the attack. It would seem to make more sense, considering his base physical stats don't generally seem to be enhanced

What makes you say they aren't enhanced at all? Darhk at that point wasn't flinging people around with his TK and there is no indication he used his TK to dent the pole. Regardless if he can use his TK to enhance his strength than does it matter? Darhk has one shotted Oliver with his TK so it does seem powerful; and he is getting the same result pretty much.

Don't get me wrong I think red skull hits harder but either way I think Damien does have super strength. Whether we chalk it up to him enhancing his physical strength with TK or him just being that strong.

@jashro44:

Best of there abilities within the limits of there personality. If Olivers morals hinder him against people like Anarky I don't see why they shouldn't at all here. Not saying that because Oliver lost to Anarky he loses to red skull but you get the point.

This seems like a pointless argument. If Oliver is jobbering, than obviously by the very definition of jobbering, he'll lose. But what does that prove? If Oliver is actually fighting as well as he can and isn't nerfed, then he's capable of stomping Red Skull.

Well I don't think red skull is a master martial artist I imagine he has basic army training at least. Even though Cyrus Gold might have been faster in raw speed I think skull has better reflexes. And I'm mostly talking about the hand to hand round. I agree Oliver wins the weapon round easily.

Grundy and other Mirakuru users could react to arrows. They were enhanced all the way around;, speed, senses, healing, not just strength alone. Totally on a separate tier from Red Skull.

I think Red Skull is more durable than Damien Darhk.

Hmm well durability is actually an area where Darhk doesn't have too many showings, but it's because he rarely ever gets injured. He did tank Diggle's tranquilizer bullet. In season 2, Diggle used tranquilizers on Oliver himself and they took effect instantly, not to mention all of the Ghosts/other enemies who Diggle tranqs regularly nowadays and they always work. Damian however, was the only person able to resist them, and still functioning enough to ghost out of the moving train without being noticed. He was also the only person in the room not crippled by the Canary Cry. That's a pretty good feat, all of the hardened Ghost soldiers who can tank bullets into their armor without budging and don't hesitate to kill themselves when captured, were paralyzed by the Cry, while Darhk didn't even stop smiling. And of course he recently tanked Malcolm's explosive arrow. Like, really TANKED. He was blown away by the point blank explosion, then immediately teleported behind Malcolm, smiling, and curbstomped him.

Actually now that I think about it, Malcolm used those same arrows to defeat Mirakuru soldiers. Damian tanking it, makes him MUCH more durable than Red Skull. So, case closed there.

Stronger to considering he dented Steve's shield. I think that is above Darhk tossing Oliver at the pole.

The difference is that Darhk just casually tossed Oliver into the pole from several feet away with one arm. Red Skull made a direct strike onto the shield with everything he had. Considering Darhk also put Oliver's head through a metal box during that fight, the two of them should actually be pretty comparable in brute strength.

I don't know about that.

Why not? What is wrong with my logic? In season 2 Oliver already proved he can outfight enhanced super soldiers any day of the week. Except these super soldiers, are even more powerful than Red Skull and Cap. So... end of story. There's the proof that Red Skull can't beat Oliver, even if you want to argue that Skull is way more skilled than Grundy/Roy/Caleb, the amp that Oliver received when he became Ra's should be much larger. Oliver curbstomps.

@nickzambuto:

This seems like a pointless argument. If Oliver is jobbering, than obviously by the very definition of jobbering, he'll lose. But what does that prove? If Oliver is actually fighting as well as he can and isn't nerfed, then he's capable of stomping Red Skull.

I'm not saying Oliver is jobbing for the sake of jobbing I'm saying he is in character. If his morals restrict him than that's just how it is. The "nerf" is a restriction Oliver has imposed on himself.

Grundy and other Mirakuru users could react to arrows. They were enhanced all the way around;, speed, senses, healing, not just strength alone. Totally on a separate tier from Red Skull.

Wait when did that happen? The only mirakuru user I remember showing any decent reactions was Slade.

Hmm well durability is actually an area where Darhk doesn't have too many showings, but it's because he rarely ever gets injured. He did tank Diggle's tranquilizer bullet. In season 2, Diggle used tranquilizers on Oliver himself and they took effect instantly, not to mention all of the Ghosts/other enemies who Diggle tranqs regularly nowadays and they always work. Damian however, was the only person able to resist them, and still functioning enough to ghost out of the moving train without being noticed.

Withstanding the tranqs has more to do with poison resistance than Blunt trauma.

He was also the only person in the room not crippled by the Canary Cry. That's a pretty good feat, all of the hardened Ghost soldiers who can tank bullets into their armor without budging and don't hesitate to kill themselves when captured, were paralyzed by the Cry, while Darhk didn't even stop smiling.

That's a good feat.

And of course he recently tanked Malcolm's explosive arrow. Like, really TANKED. He was blown away by the point blank explosion, then immediately teleported behind Malcolm, smiling, and curbstomped him.

Malcolm did the same thing in season one. It was even a throw back to that moment which is why Malcolm said "Oh I may have learned a little". Red Skull was injected with a similar serum to cap IIRC (the only difference is Skull lost his face) so he should be about as durable as Steve give or take. I don't think this is beyond his capabilities.

Actually now that I think about it, Malcolm used those same arrows to defeat Mirakuru soldiers. Damian tanking it, makes him MUCH more durable than Red Skull. So, case closed there.

If we are assuming all mirakuru soldiers are equals physically than no way is Darhk more durable than them considering Slade no sold a hit from Roy. Personally I don't think they are all equals so maybe he is more durable than the fodder ones but I don't remember there durability feats.

The difference is that Darhk just casually tossed Oliver into the pole from several feet away with one arm. Red Skull made a direct strike onto the shield with everything he had. Considering Darhk also put Oliver's head through a metal box during that fight, the two of them should actually be pretty comparable in brute strength.

I still think denting the shield is better honestly. The shield seemed much more thick and sturdy than the metal Darhk slammed Oliver through and the pole.

Why not? What is wrong with my logic? In season 2 Oliver already proved he can outfight enhanced super soldiers any day of the week. Except these super soldiers, are even more powerful than Red Skull and Cap. So... end of story. There's the proof that Red Skull can't beat Oliver, even if you want to argue that Skull is way more skilled than Grundy/Roy/Caleb, the amp that Oliver received when he became Ra's should be much larger. Oliver curbstomps.

The "amp" Oliver received after his training from Ra's has barely affected his performance aside from his final duel with Ra's which had more factors than just Oliver's skill increase. And MAYBE his recent fight with Darhk but Darhk doesn't have a lot of hand to hand feats aside from trashing Oliver so that would be debatable.

He might be enhanced, just hard to tell

It matters cause, if Darhk's base stats are enhanced, it makes Ollie beating him in h2h more impressive

Red Skull should logically be able to replicate the physical strength feats of MCU Captain America throughout all the movies. Steve never actually got stronger, he just got better feats to showcase his strength. That should make this at least somewhat close.

What lubub said above makes a lot of sense. But I think if we go by just Red Skull's feats and we don't scale them to Cap's continuously improved showings...Ollie both rounds in what I'd say would be two good fights.

Oliver both rounds

Oliver wins round 2, Red Skull stomps round 1.

Oilver both rounds

Red skull eventually if we scale him to current cap stats in r1. Loses r2

Ollie both rounds.

No reason to scale Red skull from Cap. They don't have same serum.