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#1 Edited by jashro44 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

Gorgon

VS

Constantine Drakon

Round one

  • Constantine Drakon has an assortment of Carbonadium knives (Gorgon is aware of this)
  • Gorgon has a regular katana
  • No stone stare or TP for Gorgon
  • In character
  • Win by KO/Death/Incapacitation
  • Fight takes place here:

Round two

  • Constantine Drakon gets the help of Deathstroke (pre flashpoint)
  • Slade has standard gear and drakon has an assortment of regular knives and some hand guns
  • Gorgon has his TP but no stone stare
  • Gorgon is using grass cutter
  • Fight takes place here:

Who wins and why?

#2 Posted by jashro44 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio
#3 Edited by Pokeysteve (7004 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm so excited!

#4 Edited by Immortal777 (5858 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
#5 Edited by HeraldofGanthet (2741 posts) - - Show Bio
#6 Edited by jashro44 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

@heraldofganthet: @immortal777: Thanks guys (all though I should probably mention this wasn't entirely my idea), all though what do you guys think?

#7 Posted by HeraldofGanthet (2741 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44:

While I've never read a comic with Gorgon in it, I have read his bio and seen scans of him just embarrassing Wolverine and Elektra at the same time. That's pretty boss right there. At the same time though, Drakon is one scary sumbitch with absolutely ridiculous combat speed and reaction time. Phew! I don't know who takes this one with the "Stone Stare" and TP turned off, but if this fight was on film, you'd probably have to watch it in slo-mo just to make sense of it (LOL)!

#8 Posted by texasdeathmatch (13171 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1 goes to Gorgon.

Round 2...could go to the team.

#9 Edited by Pokeysteve (7004 posts) - - Show Bio

Round one I'm unsure of and is incredibly close. I believe Drakon is faster but Gorgon's katana should keep the distance to make Drakon's knives useless. I'll say a split for now.

Round two I'm leaning towards the team. I'm not sure Gorgon can move read two people at once and even if he can, these two together should be too fast for him. Damn good fight.

#10 Posted by CF12793 (2675 posts) - - Show Bio

This, @jashro44, is why you are where you are and I am where I am.

Great thread.

I'd say Gorgon 7/10

#11 Posted by homicidalmaniac (5325 posts) - - Show Bio

Grogon

Online
#12 Edited by MonsterStomp (13049 posts) - - Show Bio

How fast is Constantine exactly?

#13 Edited by Wolverine08 (26231 posts) - - Show Bio

I fail to see how Drakon is faster than Gorgon. With or without battle telepathy.

#14 Posted by GhostRavage (7554 posts) - - Show Bio

I fail to see how Drakon is faster than Gorgon. With or without battle telepathy.

Me too. I don't get how Green Arrow's nemesis is going to challenge someone who was treating Wolverine as a ragdoll... but hey, im not that versed with either.

#15 Edited by Ancient_0f_Days (10233 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Drakon and Gorgon are around the same range of speed, Tomi edges that one out since his feats of super speed are more consistently impressive. I honestly don't know exactly how skilled Drakon is but with Tomi you at least have an idea, he hopelessly outmatches Wolverine one of Marvel's top tier martial artists. I haven't seen many strength or rather striking power feats from Constantine but once again, Tomi makes a habit of smacking Wolverine around as well as picking up a wooden support beam after being stabbed in multiple areas multiple times and made it an effective weapon to one shot Electra. And then Gorgon has his healing factor, the carbonadium knives help obviously but Tomi casually swats machine gunfire out of the air......One on one doesn't look good for Constantine, Tomi is above him on every stat. I honestly see him winning round two as well due to the lack of carbonadium and the fact that he now has Grasscutter.....I also think he outclasses Slade in every area as well but not by much and he'd be hard pressed to read his mind and figure out his movements due to Slades mental capacity and unpredictability.

#16 Posted by MonsterStomp (13049 posts) - - Show Bio

Can I some context here, how did the fight with Wolverine and Gorgon go down? Was Gorgon using TP?

#17 Edited by Ancient_0f_Days (10233 posts) - - Show Bio

Can I some context here, how did the fight with Wolverine and Gorgon go down? Was Gorgon using TP?

pretty sure he was, but even so...this is basically how it went down...

theres one scan missing, but he's clearly slaughtering Logan here.

#18 Posted by Strider92 (15243 posts) - - Show Bio

I could be wrong but couldn't Gorgon lolstomp Round 1?

Round 2 goes to Gorgon with mid-difficulty.

#19 Edited by Dextersinister (5063 posts) - - Show Bio

@ancient_0f_days: Wasn't that with telepathy and the ability to predict his moves, Mr X has done the same and he has no enhancements.

#20 Posted by MonsterStomp (13049 posts) - - Show Bio

@ancient_0f_days

theres one scan missing, but he's clearly slaughtering Logan here.

No doubt. But it'd be hard to judge round one without Gorgon's TP. With TP Gorgon stomped Wolverine (one of Marvel's most formidable fighters), without TP and against two of DC's top 10 combatants would be interesting.

#21 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (10233 posts) - - Show Bio

@ancient_0f_days: Wasn't that with telepathy and the ability to predict his moves, Mr X has done the same and he has no enhancements.

I know what Mr X did and I'm bringing it up only cus someone asked...

#22 Edited by Ancient_0f_Days (10233 posts) - - Show Bio

@ancient_0f_days

theres one scan missing, but he's clearly slaughtering Logan here.

No doubt. But it'd be hard to judge round one without Gorgon's TP. With TP Gorgon stomped Wolverine (one of Marvel's most formidable fighters), without TP and against two of DC's top 10 combatants would be interesting.

his speed feats alone would make he think he would win with or without TP....along with the fact that he's a two tonner, as stated by Nick Fury, and more skilled than Logan, as stated by Logan, he has a healing factor above all else and those carbonadium knives would only get Constantine so far in round one but Round two is still a definitive win for Gorgon since he's got every physical aspect over them as well as skill and weaponry.

#23 Edited by Dextersinister (5063 posts) - - Show Bio

@ancient_0f_days: Gorgon would win this with his increased durability but speed and skill are highly questionable considering that he can read Logans movements. Mr X performance looks better because he doesn't get tagged at all.

#24 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (10233 posts) - - Show Bio

@dextersinister: Logan stated he couldn't hope to match Gorgons skill....take that as you will...

#25 Edited by Dextersinister (5063 posts) - - Show Bio

@ancient_0f_days said:

@dextersinister: Logan stated he couldn't hope to match Gorgons skill....take that as you will...

If 2 men of equal skills and stats fight but one can read and respond to the others moves he will seem far more skilled in comparison.

Mr X never got tagged, Gorgon did using effectively the same ability.

Which makes more sense, that a bad guy that's appeared from nowhere is suddenly one of the best fighters in the world or he just seems that way because he can read your moves. Just because a character states something doesn't make it true.

#26 Edited by Ancient_0f_Days (10233 posts) - - Show Bio

@dextersinister: Gorgon stomped Wolverine and Electra at the same exact time...he went easy on Iron Fist and ended up stalemating him until Bendis Force DareDevil surprise bat-kicked him in the face....this isn't exactly new. And when someone like Wolverine, says trying to match someone's skill, their skill alone..is useless...I'm inclined to give it some credence. either way, Gorgon faces another level of skilled opponents all the time...he killed a god just so he could say he can....I'm going to believe Logan on this

#27 Posted by WaveMotionCannon (4667 posts) - - Show Bio

Gorgon both rounds. 6/10 round 2

#28 Posted by Dextersinister (5063 posts) - - Show Bio

@ancient_0f_days: Gorgon stomped Wolverine and Electra at the same exact time...he went easy on Iron Fist and ended up stalemating him

All with move reading and a healing factor, this applies to Wolverine as well but I hardly call taking stabs to the chest a supreme showing of skill

And when someone like Wolverine, says trying to match someone's skill, their skill alone..is useless...I'm inclined to give it some credence.

Why are you assuming that it's skill alone? is Wolverine a telepath and can tell when someone isn't reading their mind? Does Gorgon state that he isn't using his move reading?

either way, Gorgon faces another level of skilled opponents all the time

Actually his most recent showings aren't that impressive, call it low showings if you will but that is simply the natural progression of villains, very impressive initial showings and downhill from there.

#29 Edited by k4tzm4n (35163 posts) - - Show Bio

<3 Drakon and I think he has the means to win, but I wouldn't be surprised if he lost round 1. Despite his weapons and his speed, his arrogance is sure to play a role, and Gorgon is a character you cannot underestimate -- even for a second. Unless you're Daredevil. Then kick away.

Staff
#30 Posted by Wolverine08 (26231 posts) - - Show Bio

TROLOLOLOLOLOL!

#31 Edited by jashro44 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp said:

How fast is Constantine exactly?

Here are some random scans and yes that connor hawke:

Mostly catching entire weapon caches and quivers of arrows, blitzing Connor and speedy, and also being able to cut Roy's throat so fast that Roy couldn't see him at all.

I will let you guys decide how this stacks up to gorgon.

#32 Edited by laflux (11020 posts) - - Show Bio

TROLOLOLOLOLOL!

All that proves is Daredevil>Wolverine >:)

#33 Edited by Deathstroke19 (3675 posts) - - Show Bio

I know nothing about gorgon so i will sit this one out.

#34 Edited by HigorM (3238 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92 said:

I could be wrong but couldn't Gorgon lolstomp Round 1?

Round 2 goes to Gorgon with mid-difficulty.

I agree with this.

@jashro44: there´s any other combat feats from Drakon other than those you already posted?

#35 Posted by k4tzm4n (35163 posts) - - Show Bio

@higorm: Looks like it's missing Drakon's first fight with Oliver and his fight which was interrupted by the JLA.

Staff
#36 Posted by HigorM (3238 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: hmm, so basically he is on pair with Connor in combat skill?

#37 Edited by jashro44 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

@higorm said:


@jashro44: there´s any other combat feats from Drakon other than those you already posted?

I'm missing other showings as mentioned, I could try getting scans of the green arrow fight later. I don't have the other showing k4tz is referring to.

As for Drakon being on par with Connor in combat skills if you are talking about in regards to over all ability then Drakon is far suepioer due to his speed. If you are talking about just skill alone then its hard to say because of the edge Drakons speed gives him.

#38 Edited by SlimJ87D (8904 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't get how we can debate Gorgon without his TP. We really haven't seen him much without it.

#39 Posted by jashro44 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d said:

I don't get how we can debate Gorgon without his TP. We really haven't seen him much without it.

True but he does have some great speed feats:

There is another instance where he does the exact same thing. He also managed to kill wolverine using a combination of speed and stealth to take Logan down before his enhanced senses could register gorgons presence as well.

To be honest I mostly created this thread because I was debating who was faster between gorgon and Drakon in another thread.

#40 Posted by laflux (11020 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d said:

I don't get how we can debate Gorgon without his TP. We really haven't seen him much without it.

Well he was fighting Eletrka and Wolverine with Psi-Blocks and was doing rather well without them. I don't think he was using Telepathy against Phobos when he was fighting him either.......

#41 Edited by SlimJ87D (8904 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

@slimj87d said:

I don't get how we can debate Gorgon without his TP. We really haven't seen him much without it.

Well he was fighting Eletrka and Wolverine with Psi-Blocks and was doing rather well without them. I don't think he was using Telepathy against Phobos when he was fighting him either.......

It's really hard to tell when he was and wasn't using it. I think we should just give it to him in this fight because otherwise there's too much speculation going on.

Who knows if he blocked those bullets because he's fast or if he's just like Mister X, which it seems like he is.

Gorgon is a smarter, stronger and faster Mister X with a healing factor.

#42 Posted by jashro44 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d said:

Who knows if he blocked those bullets because he's fast or if he's just like Mister X, which it seems like he is.

i believe Gorgon was using his telepathy but i don't think that takes away from the feat. Just because you know something is coming doesn't mean you can counter it. Example is quicksilver vs mister X. It still requires insane speed to basically create a wall with your sword to block all those bullets. Especially with the ease in which gorgon did it.

#43 Posted by God_Spawn (35978 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the difference between the speeds of Drakon and Gorgon by comparison is Drakon just has more feats. I think by comparison, what little Gorgon has done with his speed is enough to say he can at least match Drakon, or the gap is so little it doesn't make a difference. It's not often you see Wolverine, someone who has defeated and tagged speedsters in the past, get blitzed before his senses can pick up something. Gorgon's deflected multiple rounds of machine gunfire like a cakewalk. His showing against Slingshot, another legitimate speedster, showed his speed again.

I think he can take round 1 for a solid majority. Like K4tz brought up, Drakon does get cocky. Tomi can be pretty arrogant himself at times, but he generally follows through with his mission when it comes down to it. He is also no stranger to being willing to let himself get hurt to prove his end goal.

Round two is another story. Both guys are fast, but Drakon doesn't have a healing factor. Between his telepathy, speed, skill, and healing, Gorgon could put up a fight and I'd say possibly take a majority if he can down Drakon. Slade is the main problem. One thing I like about the Gorgon is just his ability to completely turn something around. Like when he got blasted with the RPG and then jumped by a decked out Wolverine and Elektra, he turned the tide on them with a wooden beam, pinned Logan to a wall with a sword, and then decapitated a bunch of SHIELD agents almost as fast as he had been attacked. His fight against the Secret Warriors is another example to me. When he was busy fighting them, Yo-Yo wasn't even in direct combat with the Gorgon while he was busy fighting some of them, and then tried blitzing him, and mid blitz he sort of counter blitzed her, drew his sword, and sliced her arms off. I think he can hold off Slade and Drakon, and just sometime during the fight when it seems like they have the upper hand, Tomi pulls out one of those attacks and deals with them.

Moderator
#44 Posted by laflux (11020 posts) - - Show Bio

One thing I like about the Gorgon is just his ability to completely turn something around. Like when he got blasted with the RPG and then jumped by a decked out Wolverine and Elektra, he turned the tide on them with a wooden beam, pinned Logan to a wall with a sword, and then decapitated a bunch of SHIELD agents almost as fast as he had been attacked. His fight against the Secret Warriors is another example to me. When he was busy fighting them, Yo-Yo wasn't even in direct combat with the Gorgon while he was busy fighting some of them, and then tried blitzing him, and mid blitz he sort of counter blitzed her, drew his sword, and sliced her arms off. I think he can hold off Slade and Drakon, and just sometime during the fight when it seems like they have the upper hand, Tomi pulls out one of those attacks and deals with them.

Gorgon is the sh!t :)

#45 Posted by God_Spawn (35978 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux: Lost to his own reflection. What a badass :P.

Moderator
#46 Edited by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (19489 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux: Lost to his own reflection. What a badass :P.

Gorgon's so badass the only thing that can defeat him is him.

#47 Posted by laflux (11020 posts) - - Show Bio
#48 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (19489 posts) - - Show Bio
#49 Edited by laflux (11020 posts) - - Show Bio
#50 Edited by SlimJ87D (8904 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@slimj87d said:

Who knows if he blocked those bullets because he's fast or if he's just like Mister X, which it seems like he is.

i believe Gorgon was using his telepathy but i don't think that takes away from the feat. Just because you know something is coming doesn't mean you can counter it. Example is quicksilver vs mister X. It still requires insane speed to basically create a wall with your sword to block all those bullets. Especially with the ease in which gorgon did it.

Mister X is able to do it and he's not super fast, not even rated faster than Spider-ma if I can remember.

But I wasn't actually trying to take away from the feat at all.