(GOKU WON) CAV: Goku (Tdlp) vs Yusuke 3 Kings (cadencev2)

@neongamewave: @cadencev2:

You over hyping Yusuke on the questionability of planet bust is actual bias, I didn`t clamor or obsess myself over darklord`s calculations like you are describing also he did have some logic within the actual calculations and there was no use of Death Battle unlike you who actually used something far more illogical.

Yeah right, with Yusuke you seemed to believe he would be able to planet bust a lot easier and you were denying a couple times on the idea of Goku actually being able to planet bust, now you want them to target cores when Frieza destroyed Planet Vegeta in his base form? Goku has more than enough power to destroy a planet easily considering how much more power he had over Frieza and Vegeta was about to destroy the planet, did he aim for the core? No. Superman is a different case.

Its really simple on why Goku would be able to decimate and destroy a planet with a single blast, the Spirit Bomb itself is even planetary in the level of destruction it can produce its far more realistic and logical for Goku to bust a planet than for Yusuke. Also why would Goku need to planet bust? Akira Toriyama never had any intention in wanting the heroes to display power that they didn`t need to display why would a hero need to bust a planet? That`s why we have the handbooks and powerscaling.

The actual word doesn`t even fit with my intentions or characteristics so it was a silly word to use anyway, if you were to try to insult me and it doesn`t prove your stance. Its funny how you failed to acknowledge the fact that I was only addressing the concern of Goku`s planet busting when did I ever jump on the bandwagon for the calculations in particular exactly? Your the same one using Death Battle calculations am I right? What makes your calculations any better? Also I wasn`t putting you down I was voicing my concerns and I didn`t come in and say Goku stomps Yusuke, also what`s with you and these fanboy terms?

My attention wasn`t to help darklord outright it was just to voice my concerns on your lies, generalizations and etc in regards to DBZ.

What are you talking about? Like seriously? Also how does that make you a bigger or more loyal fan maybe some people also have the same things you have that you are bragging about such as owning the complete series, having a poster and having the manga while also having friends who have the same also watching the anime online would equate to reading manga because of how canon the series is, also your bias for the character of Yusuke doesn`t shoulder your attempt in regards to proving others wrong.

I wasn`t angry or rageful, only concerned so for you to act childlike and accuse me with these disrespectful as well as untruthful terms just shows who the real raged one is, your proving to be the one of rage and anger, also insults don`t prove your points with anymore clarity than what I addressed earlier ago.

You think I`m wrong, you haven`t proven why I am wrong, see the difference? Clear as day, also your the one putting Yusuke on the level of Goku and Ghost Rider while bashing other characters, both sides were to blame so you can act out all you want it doesn`t make you any better.

You didn`t prove me wrong or educate me on anything just with the same complaining.

@dratini1331 said:

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

@neongamewave: @cadencev2:

Get up and battle Snorlax Ash needs you =P

You over hyping Yusuke on the questionability of planet bust is actual bias, I didn`t clamor or obsess myself over darklord`s calculations like you are describing also he did have some logic within the actual calculations and there was no use of Death Battle unlike you who actually used something far more illogical.

Who says the death battle scans is so illogical? who? Did the Nasa Science Committee deem it so or your personal several Doctrates in math and Calculation? At least I threw out some thought out calcs that are LOGICAL with the feats.

Yeah right, with Yusuke you seemed to believe he would be able to planet bust a lot easier and you were denying a couple times on the idea of Goku actually being able to planet bust, now you want them to target cores when Frieza destroyed Planet Vegeta in his base form? Goku has more than enough power to destroy a planet easily considering how much more power he had over Frieza and Vegeta was about to destroy the planet, did he aim for the core? No. Superman is a different case.

Yuske can Planet Wreck and bust if he attacked the Core like Frieza does. Frieza destroying Planet Namek was a far away and unclear animation at best. The ball more than likely hit the core and the planet blew. You could not see much of anything in the suppose "Frieza Vaporise Vegets" scene.

Superman is a different case, He has "Legit" Planet busting feats.

Its really simple on why Goku would be able to decimate and destroy a planet with a single blast, the Spirit Bomb itself is even planetary in the level of destruction it can produce its far more realistic and logical for Goku to bust a planet than for Yusuke. Also why would Goku need to planet bust? Akira Toriyama never had any intention in wanting the heroes to display power that they didn`t need to display why would a hero need to bust a planet? That`s why we have the handbooks and powerscaling.

The Spirit Bomb could blow a planet, however it is not his energy at all and takes FOREVER to use at any decent level.

Handbooks and Powerscaling do not = Feats. Thus why DBZ is ignored altogether by the Viners.

The actual word doesn`t even fit with my intentions or characteristics so it was a silly word to use anyway, if you were to try to insult me and it doesn`t prove your stance. Its funny how you failed to acknowledge the fact that I was only addressing the concern of Goku`s planet busting when did I ever jump on the bandwagon for the calculations in particular exactly? Your the same one using Death Battle calculations am I right? What makes your calculations any better? Also I wasn`t putting you down I was voicing my concerns and I didn`t come in and say Goku stomps Yusuke, also what`s with you and these fanboy terms?

The fact I said these are more accurate to the Feats which I debated. You p!$$ me off period for jumping in at all which everyone knows you should not have done period!

Deal with it, you intefered no matter what your intention was in a 1 on 1 debate of debating skills. It was Tdip jobs to debate my claims, not yours!

Your a bit of a jerk who pulled a clear jerk move. What you did would be no different of walking by a chess game and saying to the other guy, "Move her to put him in check"

It was a Bull**** move on your part period.

My attention wasn`t to help darklord outright it was just to voice my concerns on your lies, generalizations and etc in regards to DBZ.

Who says they are lies? Show me where it is FACT they are lies?! You cannot, only your Opponion.

Stop while your ahead, you have no ground other than being to concern to interfere with my match. period.

What are you talking about? Like seriously? Also how does that make you a bigger or more loyal fan maybe some people also have the same things you have that you are bragging about such as owning the complete series, having a poster and having the manga while also having friends who have the same also watching the anime online would equate to reading manga because of how canon the series is, also your bias for the character of Yusuke doesn`t shoulder your attempt in regards to proving others wrong.

My point is your acting like you know the facts when there is none in the end. Only what we can judge from feats. Which is what I actually did by posting scans with what I saw in them. Where is all the DBZ scans supporting your arguments? None.

I wasn`t angry or rageful, only concerned so for you to act childlike and accuse me with these disrespectful as well as untruthful terms just shows who the real raged one is, your proving to be the one of rage and anger, also insults don`t prove your points with anymore clarity than what I addressed earlier ago.

You think I`m wrong, you haven`t proven why I am wrong, see the difference? Clear as day, also your the one putting Yusuke on the level of Goku and Ghost Rider while bashing other characters, both sides were to blame so you can act out all you want it doesn`t make you any better.

Yeah I have, your wrong as you have no facts to say your right. None, nada. I never said I was right, I know you and Tdip are wrong.

Also you are wrong for a fact to interfere a debate skill match between debaters. Intentional or not, you were helping Tdip. Period.

Your wrong. Deal with it.

@dccomicsrule2011: Have you ever seen the evolution of snorlax's sprite? It's like he's trying to sit up:

from trumpeteroftheswan (http://shaakes.blogspot.com/2013/04/trumpeteroftheswan-so-i-saw-post-of-all.html):

so i saw a post of all the sprite progressions of various pokemon through the years and snorlax looks like he spent all his time trying to sit up

like

alright let’s do this

rrRHRGG

wow no that was exhausting

ok baby steps time

ok so far so good

grgrhgh—

GGHRHGHGGHGHHH

AW GOD DAMN IT

maybe if I—

wait

…

successsssssss

@neongamewave: Also I already know you will rebut what I am saying as your the innocent one that did wrong, bs, you simply should not have to interfere with a Challenge a Viner Match. At all.

It was my debate skills and showing of feats vs Tdip.

This was not CadenceV2 vs Neogamer and Tdip. You cannot change the fact you should have stayed the hell out of it.

- Side note-

Isnt dbz threads illegal?

@sylvain: CAV threads are allowed.

This was a challenge a viner. They're allowed because CaV doesn't end in a Crap storm flame war most of the time. This, however, was one of those other times where it did turn chernobyl.

Because Goku can sense energy. Throughout the series the Z fighters can sense how much energy it would take to destroy a planet or whatever.

Sorry Limpoy =( This is a bad argument for Goku/Vegeta being a planet buster. See, here's the problem, how would he know how much it takes to destroy the planet? I can feel heat and cold, but that doesn't mean I know how much heat it would take to disintegrate the earth. There's no reason that Goku would know how much it takes to destroy the Earth. He could just be overreacting because he has never felt anything of that magnitude before.

Up until that point, the strongest person they had ever fought was raditz, who was leagues below Vegeta. It's not really a stretch to say that they have no idea what they're talking about at this point since they're just getting into the field, there's no way they can be experts.

Don't get me wrong, Vegeta is definitely supposed to be a planet buster (or killer at bare minimum), but that's not really a valid argument for him being one. Goku is a confirmed planet buster/Killer by King Kai via Spirit bomb (though I don't think it can destroy the planet, because it only harms evil or something like that...) This specific one was just less valid, and the weakest (which is why I think you put it first?)

cadence wins

@dratini1331: People should be allowed to discuss the opponent's points though.

Not during the match. That is the point of Challenge a Viner, not but the hell in when you fell like it. After the match is fine, but during? No, what is the point then of my deabting Tdip? There would be none.

Thanks.

@cadencev2: I didn't say during the CAV match, but I was referring to after.

That is absolutely fine then. Sort of a loop hole actually.

I vote for CadenceV2 as well. There were some fan rage on both sides here, however CadenceV2 showed scans and realistic calculations. The calculations for Goku are not supported at all and do seem fan made.

Also I felt it was unfair for CadenceV2 having to deal with others debating against him in a Challenge a Viner match.

This shows why DBZ threads are lock and lead to flame wars.

(Runs away before retaliation.)

@limpoyzloan: Only after is okay, like TDLP and I did, but even then, show restraint. This isn't us debating with them, it's them debating each other. I think it's okay to voice opinions why you vote and defend them to an extent, but you shouldn't go overkill on it, that's not part of CaV.

Also, while both sides messed up some, no reason to go ham on it. I can totally believe YYH S classes are Planet Killing levels. I believe they do actually say something to that effect in the series, and Yusuke is one of the strongest S classes. I mean, honestly, Yusuke was Hyped, and Goku was Hyped, but a lot of Cadence's argument was pretty legit, and TDLP also accepted those things (such as planet busting Yusuke).

@dratini1331: In a series that consistently shows they can sense how much energy it would take to do so? How would the Z Fighters know that Goku would be able destroy the planet in the Cell saga? Trunks? Vegeta? Trunks had never seen the Androids destroy a planet. Nor Cell. So how would he know if Vegeta would have destroyed Earth and possibly other nearby planets when he had sensed Vegeta doing the final flash? Trunks has never seen a planet being destroyed, by anybody, yet when he sees Vegeta doing the Final Flash he suddenly knows it will destroy the planet if Vegeta hadn't made it smaller?

@limpoyzloan: They have more experience at that point. They know that Frieza can destroy a planet, and they've seen it done in practice, or at least everyone who knew how namek went down, which is everyone. The spirit bomb Goku hit on Namek was way >>> Gallic Gun. Even the shot frieza took at Namek's core was >>> Gallic Gun. Longer time, more experience.

Trunks also knows of frieza, since he took the same shot Frieza hit Namek with. he also likely can tell his own limits or has heard stories from his mother.

It's also more obvious as time goes on that basically "anything above this will destroy this." Vegeta would of course know as he's basically been hanging out with a galactic tyrant all the time (which is why his actual statement is more legit than Goku guessing his power).

It's more likely that Goku guessed his plan after feeling his energy, rather than Goku just magically knowing how much energy it would take to kill a planet. <-- that's what I want you to be more precise about.

Just using them as confirmation, when they've never had experience in the area before, is way more debatable than citing someone like Vegeta, who has more experience. See what I'm saying?

@dratini1331: You make a valid point. I still stand by my other points of Goku being a planet buster.

@thedarklordpandamonium: your multipliers are wrong. You cant add great ape to the equation if he isnt transformed..... Thats just common sense. Also kaio ken isnt included in ssj as he isnt using the technique..... You have to multiply his base after 100x gravity training by 50 for ssj. Oozaru and kaioken arent included.

This thread is basically why DBZ got banned...

@zr0c00l: I brought that up on the second page (?) so you can check there for his answers to those questions.

@limpoyzloan: Oh definitely, that one was just weaker than the others, and it could use a patch up in the future.

@dratini1331: Thanks for your input anyhow.

This debate was wack. If I was debating Goku's side I would definitely had done it differently lol and it kind of became a mess in the end.

@dratini1331: oh awesome. I saw the first page and kinda threw my hands up and had to post. Shoulda known i wasnt the only dbz fan that would disagree......

Side note i never watched yyh so cant vote though i liked cavs arguments better though cant be sure he isnt also distorting facts like i saw with dlp and goku.

Check out actual statements and scans I posted of S class Yusuke. Come to your own conclusion. Basically I interpret the scans how I read them and used multiple calcs of various sources to fine a conclusion on speed and power.

Makes sense.

@zr0c00l: Watch YYH =O It's awesome ^.^

Oh really?

See that's funny, because as I recall Goku drank the sacred water to beat King Piccolo, and he wasn't a giant ape when he did that.

*facepalm*

We went over this, it's semantics. The thread was meant to have Kaio-Ken included.

My multipliers are correct and Dratini already conceded all of my points (kind of difficult not to, since he made the same arguments dozens of other people have and got no further).

I'm very disappointed by all the people just blatantly disbelieving Goku can go 630 times the speed of light when my base feat was easily calculable and everything else was either solid math or stated by the goddamn creator itself.

Anyhow, the debate's over. Cadencev2 basically refused to acknowledge that he lost even when I was like up by 6 or 7, so I was just like 'well he's never going to acknowledge it' and put it in the title.

If any of you care to get completely stomped, you should try debating my calcs.

Please, I'm sure the 501st person to do so will actually be successful.

*rolls eyes*

@deranged_midget: Thread has devolved into flaming. Lock, please?

@thedarklordpandamonium: Sir Isaac Newton had a calculus mistake in his fundamental theorem that went undiscovered until the late 20th century by a grad student. People can make mistakes, and others will often make the same one. Also, even if we found something that was wrong with it, you would refuse to accept it because you're being so darn headstrong about it.

@dratini1331:

I would accept it.

But you haven't .

It's annoying because you're making all the same arguments I've answered dozens of times over. I love debating, but it's no fun if I'm just doing the same thing over and over again.

As soon as you make a new argument I'll be like 'hm' and drop the arrogance and see if there is ACTUALLY a fault. It happened a few times on AnimeVice when I was testing out new things, but the 630x formula is a really old one.

It's not that I'm even defending my formulas; if I think there could be a fault, I research it as much as possible until I'm sure there's no possible error. I did the math for the flipping lever things fifteen or sixteen times before I stopped being like 'this makes no sense' (like you were at first) and eventually just went to my Sensei and asked him.

The Death Battle calculations are illogical considering the ones behind it did not do the extensive research that they so claimed to be doing and they used Goku from the earlier parts not the later parts of the overall series miscalculating how much he can lift while forgetting that he was specializing in a aerial combat style that Akira Toriyama confirmed himself most of their calculations were based on assumption even the speed feats and durability feats in regards to Dr. Gero`s bomb. All you are doing is complaining about how darklord`s calculations are using power levels without even debunking anything especially since the author himself created those methods for his characters to be judged by.

Now your only assuming without facts and feats like you accused me of doing, Yusuke possibly can destroy a planet his demon gun but its not certain, Frieza did not target the core you have no proof he did, he wanted to battle Goku at full power and wanted to leave the planet afterwards because his power would of been drained by the planet`s explosion he confirmed this himself, Frieza destroyed Planet Vegeta in his base form and he did not target the core also that just goes to show why Goku would be able to planet bust something you keep obviously denying.

He does but your missing the point, I never denied he can`t destroy planets, I`ve seen the scans myself and read the comics my point is he is irrelevant because his shattering of planets is more so done through brute force and acceleration in speed which adds more friction to his strikes also when breaking through planets his strikes more so collide with other beings such as Darkseid in which the shockwaves destroy the planet, Goku on the other hand as well as Yusuke as you believe obviously would utilize raw energy to accomplish the same feat but in a quicker time period.

It doesn`t matter considering it ki energy he gathers my point is he has many ways in which he can blow up a planet also it doesn`t matter how long it takes either.

Just because the majority of comic based Viner users don`t accept Handbooks doesn`t make them untrue or invaluable even a lot of them use the handbooks for comics when they are far more inconsistent and mangas work differently comics so they should be acknowledged you haven`t proven anything here with this void point. Also one of the mods even confirmed that they can be used to help supplement points and facts in this case that is DBZ which is compatible and has shown the same elements of discussion.

Like I said you again are not proving anything also you raging just contradicts your own statement about complaining about me raging and if you paid attention you would know that I wasn`t the only one to interfere or voice concerns and you don`t see raging like you are.

The debate itself was ending pretty early, also for me to voice my concerns where the concerns themselves did not add or take away from darklord was debating with you isn`t and shouldn`t be a worry it becomes a problem when you over-complicate it like what you are doing right now.

That`s a stupid analogy, playing chess doesn`t require votes, concerns and etc. Its obviously a game of one and one that would be considered cheating I never gave darklord any scans or secrets in this forum or through inbox in a way to overcome yours so your point of anger is misplaced. Also like I said how am I a jerk when haven`t done anything or said anything that actually matched the term?

Or it was a dumb move on your part to turn into a flame war.

You saying Goku cannot planet bust and Frieza hitting the core are LIES! Like I already showed and told you, Frieza had enough power to destroy Namek and I even provided the scans as well as the reasons why in regards to the core, that`s not an opinion, Yusuke being able to planet bust while Goku can`t is an opinion and form of bias.

You acting out doesn`t make you seem anymore right, the match was coming to a close if I`m not mistaken and has come to a close so for you to cry over something that has already ended has no place here.

You fail yet again. I have already posted feats and explained why, also the feats you posted for Yusuke is something of no feats either you haven`t proven why Yusuke would be able to planet bust has he ever? No. Also I`m not acting like I know everything I`m just clarifying and correcting your arrogance.

Like what? You don`t have to say your right you just said I`m wrong so who would be right on the other end with a claim like that? Obviously you, your the one ignoring and acting rude because you don`t want to reason why do this debate if you can`t understand the character your debating against and how things are done?

In what way may I ask? Can you show me where?

That makes you right am I right? You know you just contradicted yourself right?

@neongamewave@cadencev2:

YOU TWO ARE WHY THIS HAS TO BE LOCKED

GET A CHATROOM

Cadence, I understand why you're all like 'wtf' because someone's debating for me, but DON'T encourage them.

Neongamewave, THIS IS NOT YOUR BATTLE TO FIGHT. If I felt debating Goku's planet-buster status was actually relevant, I WOULD HAVE PROVED IT WITHOUT A DOUBT.

You shouldn`t act arrogant and generalize others if you don`t want interference then don`t initiate the interest also I was looking forward to this debate however your bias yet again ruins it and no one is trying to act innocent.

More so bias and rudeness.

You cannot change the fact that you brought this on yourself and the debate ended so that point is irrelevant.

I`m pretty much finished, me debating him won`t getting anywhere because no one will agree with the other it was more than a debate considering the level of bias on his part which is why I was concerned and had to voice them, he does this a lot with the Yu Yu Hakusho characters.

@god_spawn Please lock this. ... I wish the notification system wasn't broken.

@thedarklordpandamonium this has already gone too far, i'll save it for another time.

This just gave me inspiration to debate Goku for the lulz

oh god the notification system is broken

we're going to have to listen to another three pages of neongamewave and cadencev2 arguing

THE HORROR

@thedarklordpandamonium: Should we just PM him!?!?! I just got a notification for a follow, and not for this LAJSDJASKNASKDNASD NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL I said in my last post to him I was done. I said what I felt and said it 3 different ways. I was upset he bumped in this match. Its over, this match is done. Moving on.