(GOKU WON) CAV: Goku (Tdlp) vs Yusuke 3 Kings (cadencev2)

I really do not care anymore, I defended DBZ hardcore before the Ban was initiated, now I am fully supported in keeping it banned with the rest of the DBZ haters.

@cadencev2:

Oh no, I fully support the ban. God knows without it me and reikai would probably be trying to prove LSS Broly would beat Thanos 24/7.

Which Thanos wins easy. In a near stomp in fact. I just did not realize it till after SS4 Gogeta vs Thanos debate with the Viners.

@cadencev2:

SS4 Gogeta would tots beat Thanos, though you wouldn't want to hear my calc on how Super Dragon Fist is 10^62 joules at least which is enough to destroy most of the universe...*wink*

lol I am good, I need to sleep tonight.

Uh, no. Brolly beats everyone in DBZ. Thanos stomps all of DBZ while using the Silver Surfer as a footstool and having the cast of Toriko and One Piece serve him team, clean his house, and tend the corn fields.

I use to war with you before when you said that. Now I am waving the white flag.

@reikai:

OH COME ON

THIS COMING FROM THE GUY WHO PROVED BROLY WAS A MULTI-GALAXY BUSTER

:|

@cadencev2: Some things just get too silly to argue about. I may put Brolly above other stuff in DBZ because of his broken nature, but that doesn't translate over into other fiction for me. One of the reasons why I made this lil thing;

Simple, easy to understand, and absolutely hilarious.

@reikai:

D'oh. I've been debating that SS4 Goku would beat Silver Surfer or Thanos if both had everything taken away but strength, speed, and energy blasts.

@reikai said:

@cadencev2: Some things just get too silly to argue about. I may put Brolly above other stuff in DBZ because of his broken nature, but that doesn't translate over into other fiction for me. One of the reasons why I made this lil thing;

Simple, easy to understand, and absolutely hilarious.

That was well done and the last scan is just funny!

@thedarklordpandamonium: Well GT is pretty much garbage, the only reason anyone like SS4 was because Toriyama created the concept art for it. But in GT they never did anything that couldn't be done as a SSJ1 in DBZ. Then there was the farce about being cut by glass, and them being controlled by the Para-Para Brothers. The entire series was a horrible mix of early Dragon Ball humor with DBZ power. It didn't work out.

Physically, the Surfer is capable of knocking around the Hulk, and Thanos is capable of backhanding the both of them. Even calcing higher than the gross underestimation of strength by the Death Battle team using their Gravity Formula, even my best estimations of Goku's strength doesn't even come close to the Marvel Bricks, whom Thanos treats like ragdolls.

Thanos has indicated reaction speed capable of tagging the Silver Surfer in flight, who has been indicated being many millions of times faster than light, which is far greater than any Reasonable level estimated for Goku, even at SS4. Even admitting for Instant Transmission usage, Thanos has not only dealt with teleporters before, he is one.

In terms of experience, Goku is around age 50 by the end of GT, and has been fighting most of his life. Thanos is somewhere between 24-720 thousand years old. He is brilliant beyond all measure, and cultivated his fighting skills over countless eons fighting in the most brutal corners of the universe, and would eventually train Gamora, who'd be known as the "Deadliest Woman in the Universe" because of her fearsome skill.

Thanos, simply put, outclasses just about everyone on a physical level. He may not be able to fly or run track, but he doesn't need. Eventually, you have to come to him. And he is a master of Patience.

Multi-Galaxy?

@the_pain: @thedarklordpandamonium: Yeah...I only proved Brolly was a galaxy-buster at full power. I never said he was multi-galaxy. Unless we were applying multipliers for LSSJ3 which only exists in the games. At that point we just go "F*%K the Universe" and watch it explode.

@the_pain:

Ohhhh yeah.

Reikai proved broly was a galaxy buster in restrained super saiyan form, meaning he's at least twice as powerful in lss (because he got outmatched by ss2 and then outmatched ss2, so at least a double) which is 2 galaxies. or multi-galaxy buster.

LSS3 is a god.

@reikai:

Strength obviously, but speed...

*wiggles around a little*

The highest-end speed formula I've been able to get accepted on Animevice got SS4 Goku at more than 100,000,000 times the speed of light. That's pretty damn fast.

Experience is great and all, but Goku isn't just experienced, he's a flipping fighting genius. And at SS4 Gogeta, he can almost destroy the universe...dunno if thanos could stand up to that.

I'd CAV you, but comicvine probably isn't ready for the 25,000 words that is my final multiplier formula for SS4 Goku.

Broly is overrated.

@thedarklordpandamonium: The issue is most people don't have a fair grasp of speed in DBZ. A lot of people tend to over-state it based on events in Dragon Ball, back when Toriyama was keeping more to Fantasy elements. Which all changed with DBZ with the mix if Sci-Fi elements and changing cast members from super-humans and demons to Aliens.

I've even done my share to show and prove that Goku and co were faster than the Death Battle teams assessment of him from Snake Way. I took maps and estimated distances and times for speed just from the point with Raditz and Piccolo flying with weights was easily Mach 20 going from Kame House to where Raditz' pod was.

But even my highest estimates don't put Goku, SS4 or not, into the millions FTL range. Even my estimations, based on evidence, put SS1 Goku on Namek was around 2/3rd's lightspeed. And I do use PL as a point of estimation based on factors. Power Level isn't meaningless, it is only believed so because PL changes constantly throughout the series. All we can do is make calculated estimations on strength and ability based on these factors as they grow and represented through the PL system.

all we are missing is @rozalia and we can begin the Broly debate again :)

why can't we just create a thread about broly and where to rank him in dbz.

@reikai:

*shrug*

So what part of my calcs for the 630xlightspeed do you find false?

I don't involve Power Level because it's just confusing. XD That's just the truth of it. Though with power scaling involved it's a lot more.

You debating me and darklord at the same time doesn`t mean you won the argument most of your statements only directed a form of defensively shooting down what you believed to be the end all be all of feats in regards to DBZ.

Your proving how biased a Yu Yu Hakusho fan can be which is unexpected and uncalled for especially when massive fans like myself have to pay witness to it.

Having forgot some of his character designs for the movie due to not working on his original material for countless years due to aging and a altered rate in memory doesn`t give you the right to act out like that also it doesn`t actually further your argument, only your unnecessary fury and it does not make the feats presented or fundamentals set in order less credible its your addition of misfired questionability that raises the confusion through the questions.

Both sides are to blame actually due to the fact that both sides are known to act out from all angles of the arguments regardless if it had something to do with a DBZ character or scenario. When there were Superman vs Goku threads or Goku vs Thor threads both sides were spiraling out of control its not really a community when there are broken factions and less reasonable sources for communication. Your proving why the words biased and opinion fit in the same sentence also if I`m not mistaken you were one of the individuals to complain about how DBZ was being viewed in a respected light when debating for said characters which ultimately would make you a pawn in your own game to shame this anime. Here are the official definitions for bias, one-sided and opinion, one-sided is the newly interjected importance of a point that is why it is mentioned after the fact.

OPINION

A view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

The beliefs or views of a large number or majority of people about a particular thing.

BIAS

Prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair.

One-Sided

Favoring one side or group; partial or biased: a one-sided view. Characterized by the domination of one competitor over another.

Right now your encompassing all three of these definitions also for someone like you to use Death Battle as evidence further proves my area of concern regarding on what you actually know about the universe of Dragon Ball.

Since your all about facts lets stick to the facts.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/dbz-threads-are-banned-edited-v-2-1454076/#122

Due to the childish nature of some users and amount of flame wars that have been started since unbanning anime, it has been decided by the battle mods, Vance, Deranged Midget, and myself, that DBZ threads are here on out banned. We have decided that anime in general is still allowed. We have seen plenty of threads with anime characters that have had perfectly respectable and reasonable debates, but with 90% of DBZ threads ending in flame wars and insults due to some fans and some comic users, Dragonball, DBZ, DBGT, threads are now against the rules.

@xlab3000:

because lss broly beats all of dbz

and lss3 broly beats all of dbz, gt or otherwise

@thedarklordpandamonium: I doubt that. I agree that goku>yusuke.

@xlab3000:

lss broly is at least a 2-galaxy buster.

the only person we have to compare him to is Vegetto really, and reikai's already made a lot of args there but I'll start up a Broly vs DBZ thread if ya want

and lss3 broly is at least a 16-galaxy buster, which may as well be the whole universe considering his ki is potentially infinite

@thedarklordpandamonium: That's not really true. I generally based my calculations of speed based off my estimated speed for Goku's Snake Way run as a means of measuring his flight/travel speed, aligned with his PL at the time (8000), applied multiplications as needed and indicated by the KaioKen ability which was straight up multiplication.

I estimated Goku's flight speed as Mach 28 coming off Snake Way when he had a PL of 8000. Goku arriving on Namek had a Pl of 90k. Apply multiplier of around 11x, and you get mach 308. Pretty easy to understand. Then we look at start of his fight with Freeza where his base Pl was 3mil. 3mil/8k = 375. 375 x Mach 28 = Mach 10500.

Multiply SSJ1 of 50x, goes to Mach 525thousand. Goku with a PL of 150mil as a SSJ has a speed of around Mach 525k. Lightspeed is measured around Mach 880k. So, like I had said, Goku at the time was around 2/3rd's lightspeed on Namek. If you wanted to just take that and apply the SS4 interger, just take that and multiply by 80x. Get mach Mach 42mil, which roughly translates to 47.7x Lightspeed.

A reasonable assessment one might say.

@thedarklordpandamonium: why can't we just create a thread about broly and where to rank him in dbz.

@reikai:

pffsh

who cares about flight/travel speed?

toriyama's said it was only used to further the plot and kakarot88 proved it pretty well.

I'd like to think my calc, which actually shows combat speed instead of, y'know, something the creator of the series all but admitted was a plot point, is more reasonable.

PL does not necessarily equate to speed. Remember Ultra SSJ1 Trunks, his PL sky rocketed but at the expense of speed.

@thedarklordpandamonium: Because the travel speed is the only one that can really be proven since all the animation and art style is the same in every battle regardless of the cast improving their ability, so it becomes impossible to illustrate their Reaction/Combat speed.

Going back to how I do things, Goku at end of DBZ had a Pl of 24billion as a SS3, drop by 400x multiplier and his base level of 60mil. By my estimates that'd place his base speed at Mach 210k. That'd be a bit under a quarter lightspeed as a starting figure by Buu Saga. Now add in the 400x SS3 mutiplier and you get Mach 84mil, or 95.5x Lightspeed. Or instead the 4000x SS4 multiplier, and it's ten times that, so 955x Lightspeed.

@reikai:

Incorrect. Most power level multipliers that I use are flatly stated and the bullet dodging feat is good. Power multipliers stack up. It makes sense mathematically and all of the multipliers are official.

Batman stomps all of them, either it's Goku, Thanos or Broly.

Better post my favorite scan(s) of all-time for DBZ regarding Broly:

Gallery

Yes, I know it's fan-fic, but you can't say that isn't awesome.

@the_legendary_supersaiyan_hulk said:

@thedarklordpandamonium said:

@xlab3000:

lss broly is at least a 2-galaxy buster.

the only person we have to compare him to is Vegetto really, and reikai's already made a lot of args there but I'll start up a Broly vs DBZ thread if ya want

and lss3 broly is at least a 16-galaxy buster, which may as well be the whole universe considering his ki is potentially infinite

Better post my favorite scan(s) of all-time for DBZ regarding Broly:

Gallery

Yes, I know it's fan-fic, but you can't say that isn't awesome.

i f*cking love dbzm

it's like my childhood

squared

Yet I stated in my own debate That Goku and Yuske should be around the same speed and supported said argument. I am not the people who came in this thread from the get go saying "Goku Stomps" and I sure the hell aint the guy who butted in and hijacked this Challenge a Viner Thread with their input why I am wrong and Goku wins.

Guess that last part makes you not only Bias but a step further to help support Tdip instead of letting the debate be between us.

I have a word for that. Jerk.

Due to the childish nature of some users and amount of flame wars that have been started since unbanning anime, it has been decided by the battle mods, Vance, Deranged Midget, and myself, that DBZ threads are here on out banned. We have decided that anime in general is still allowed. We have seen plenty of threads with anime characters that have had perfectly respectable and reasonable debates, but with 90% of DBZ threads ending in flame wars and insults due to some fans and some comic users, Dragonball, DBZ, DBGT, threads are now against the rules.

What are trying to prove with this? I I already said this. I was also the one who made DBZ Feat Threads to prove why Goku could beat Comic High Tiers. I was a 100 percent pro DBZ. Yet I understand now why DBZ fans are looked down on for the bias fan base with no solid proof to anything but UNOFFICIAL Calcs they make up for themselves.

If your trying to prove a point of me being Bias, good luck with that.

No. That line never appeared in the manga, anime, or even GT.

He's a planet buster. That's that.

I'd honestly rather see Bills vs Thanos.

@the_legendary_supersaiyan_hulk: DB Multiverse* =P

lol @ this CAV this is exactly why I hate DBZ battle threads.

@dccomicsrule2011: It really depends on whose debating. This was pretty much a mess.

@limpoyzloan: Yeah your right,I have seen some good DBZ debates in the past but this.......this.....just fails.....hard.

@limpoyzloan: Yeah your right I have seen some good DBZ debates in the past but this......this.....just fails.....hard.

Things seemed to have gone crazy up in here!

@dccomicsrule2011: This is when calcs can go too far. I can understand SSJ Goku being lightspeed or a little above it, but he had to make a false case of putting SSJ Goku at 630x the speed of light.

I pretty much stopped reading at that point.

I agree with the result of the battle, but I'm not voting for either. They both made a mess of things (Cadence using Death Battle, False calculations)

@limpoyzloan said:

@dccomicsrule2011: This is when calcs can go too far. I can understand SSJ Goku being lightspeed or a little above it, but he had to make a false case of putting SSJ Goku at 630x the speed of light.

I pretty much stopped reading at that point.

I agree with the result of the battle, but I'm not voting for either. They both made a mess of things (Cadence using Death Battle, False calculations)

Oh give me a break. I said in my debate these were good idea of Clacs and further said Goku may as well be twice or three times that. Then I sourced and gave multiple clalcs that support Yuske. Showing 2 calcs of the same feats. Do not even try to say I was low balling or using the death battle calcs as hard facts like Tdip tried to with his mass math formula of BS. I even posted scans of feats to base Yuske abilities off.

So dont even try to act like I did not put up any debate.

@limpoyzloan said:

No. That line never appeared in the manga, anime, or even GT.

He's a planet buster. That's that.

Prove it. Show me one scan of Goku Planet Busting! Go Ahead.

..........Good god man , ok here it is to to shut you up. in buu saga there were things called kilis , if you had 300 kilis you could blow 2 planets ( according to daeenshuu ), goku had a kili of 3000. ..... that means at that time , at ssj1 , he could blow 20 planets , just do saiyan multipliers and don't forget to do 400x when you do ssj4 multipler because its gt and base gt goku is = ssj3 dbz

The difference is that you over hyped Yusuke on what he could actually do and refuse to believe in something very logical or simple to understand in regards to Goku being able to planet bust yet you want feats but Yusuke doesn`t have any feats either it would be easier for Goku to destroy a planet than for Yusuke considering what is shown in DBZ on a regular basis, also Frieza never targeted the cores to destroy planets you take it out of context without reading the scans, no one is hijacking anything but only voicing their concerns especially since you were the one lashing out and generalizing DBZ fans including myself.

What do you mean exactly? Aren`t you the same one saying Goku doesn`t have feats yet Yusuke himself doesn`t have any in regards to planet busting, now ain`t that hypocritical?

Who are you calling Jerk? Are you upset because you have been proven wrong? If you didn`t act out and lie then there wouldn`t be a reason for me to have my word in, also its not simply about supporting darklord I`m just addressing my concerns in regards to your accusations and lies also I wasn`t the only one to state an opinion before votes. You labeling DBZ fans and the methods as being the only problem for the institution of the ban just shows how biased and one-sided you really are me stating facts and proving them with extra resource doesn`t make me a bad person but a realistic one, what I have done to insult you personally except only showcase your flaws and voice my concerns? Calling me names doesn`t make you any more better or correct also its against the rules of this site, honestly I am disappointed, I didn`t expect this from you, you would downgrade or degrade characters such as Dante and Goku but when it comes to Yusuke he is the high and mighty am I right? Yusuke doesn`t even come close to either Goku or Dante in power.

Your furthering my point and what I am trying to prove is how you switch up when in regards to the Yu Yu Hakusho characters now changing your view point anyone with commonsense would know that Yusuke, Hiei or Kurama don`t even come close to a SSJ1 Goku or even Final Form Frieza. The amount of bias is evident in your posts also hiding away from what I exposed doesn`t make you anymore truthful notice how you were the one who said that you are now siding with the ones who are against DBZ to have DBZ banned and I already proved why you are biased for me to elaborate would be pointless. None of the calculations are made up regularly their based and resourced from a credible source established by the author himself and its logical there are no contradictions there might be a few inconsistencies due to the lack of quantification but the comparison should be acknowledged.

I think eveyone here needs a snickers :3

@neongamewave: I over hyped Yusuke yet many people on here beside myself are blown AWAY by the feat calc of Tdip. Which you have no problem with. That screams Bias even more to me.

I think Yuske can bust a planet with time. Same with Goku. He is not vaporizing a planet to dust with each like Superman who has rammed planets into pieces with his fist.

I never said Goku is not a planet killer, just not in the way everyone on this DBZ bandwagon thinks.

I call anyone jerk who been on this site a long time and has the nerve to butt in on a well establish 1 on 1 match and could not wait till the match was over to point out his point of view a freaking jerk. You clearly are as you think it is OK to just but in and defend Tdip insane Calcs and put down me. This was a Debate of Debating skills, not who character actually would win, which you had the insane fanboy rage to interrupt.

You Have No Excuse To Butt In A Debate Between Debating Skills and Help Tdip! NONE!

As for being a Yu Yu fan, I seem to know more about it than the retards who support the free Manga sight which has inprpoper translated Mangas as support for their DBZ feats and Yu Yu feats. i bought the books and made personnel scans and have a solid idea of the real story. Most of you free Manga readers rather quote improper crap from FreeManga.com!

Look, if you have not RUDELY butt in a match of Debating skills like a @$$ I would not even have a problem with ya. However the DBZ fanrage was enough to drive you to it.

So feel your the victim all you want. Your the one that was wrong and I have every right to call out the BS of this debate. This is why DBZ threads were ban and are. Cause people want to put Goku on the Galactus pedestal in debates and by some unwritten code everyone who likes DBZ has to interfere with anything that has DBZ in it.

I get it now why Comic Viner looked down on the DBZ fans!

Most of you free Manga readers rather quote improper crap from FreeManga.com!

As someone who wants to translate my own mangas to some extent, I take some offense to this. Also, several free readers, like batoto, support excellent online scanlators, and many online scans are MORE accurate than the official foreign sources. I used to have a long list of various errors and such in translation from various sources that were official, or from scanlators/fansubs that were unofficial. It was a pretty nifty list.

Just saying not to totally generalize the online scanlating community.