Goku vs Wonder Woma

Who is Wonder Woma?

@ImmortalT1000 said:

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

Who is Wonder Woma?

He mispelled " Wonder Woman. "

Oh I know I was just using my humor.

Wonder Woman stomps SSJ1 Goku.

@Enemybird: Stop, Goku time!

Goku takes it. At SSJ1 he is strong enough to destroy 10 to 15 planets.

Translated: http://magikarp46.dyndns.org/dragonball/daizenshuu/07/07-046.html

For the word Kiri:

"キリ Kiri Kili An energy unit used by Bobbidi. When Bobbidi measured Goku's energy during his fight with Yakon, this unit was used. [Par.] Goku's energy level is over 3,000 kili. At approximately 200-300 kili, one can destroy 1 or 2 planets.

Goku's Kili was measured when he was SSJ1. Goku instant transmits behind her and hits her with his strongest moves.

@lilben42 said:

@NeonGameWave: not bullets actually. She got hit by a bullet once and it bruised her. Sharp objects are her weakness. She can take any blunt force or energy attack. I know you are talking about combat speed and I just showed you her blocking all the shards fom the corners of the universe at the same time which is above lightspeed. Goku never uses IT in hand to hand combat so thats irrelevant sure he will use it to get out of tight situations but that's it. The cooler movie isn't canon and Cooler had IT too which is why he used it.

Goku has used instant transmission to deliver blows. He has used it to avoid blows as well. And he didn't need his finger in the last case.

Multiple instances where he used IT to dodge blows and give blows.

Wonder Woman is not durable enough to sustain a concentrated attack that can destroy a planet that is 10 to 15 times the size of an average planet.

Translated: http://magikarp46.dyndns.org/dragonball/daizenshuu/07/07-046.html

For the word Kiri:

"キリ Kiri Kili An energy unit used by Bobbidi. When Bobbidi measured Goku's energy during his fight with Yakon, this unit was used. [Par.] Goku's energy level is over 3,000 kili. At approximately 200-300 kili, one can destroy 1 or 2 planets.

My reaction to this battle

@lilben42 said:

@SlimJ87D: I know he has but I meant he hasn't fought an all out battle using IT. I thought we were using everything up to Cell saga?

@NeonGameWave: She has but it takes alot to keep her down. SSj1 Goku I don't think he can survive a planet busting blast. Didn't he die from Cells explosion that was planet busting?

@Enemybird: Interesting how?

Where does it say we are using Cell game saga Goku? The feat where he dodges Cells blow with IT was done during the cell game. It also really doesn't matter as Vegeta could have easily destroyed earth and Piccolo at his weakest in the series destroyed the moon at FTL with a blast which is 81 times less the mass of the earth.

Lastly, here's a post from this thread I made recently which has gotten some acclaim:

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/discuss-and-debunk-a-feat-with-a-viner/721916/?page=22

@SlimJ87D said:

Using the survival of explosions as a feat

Time and time again I hear people comparing different explosions of different magnitudes and how characters survive said explosion. What I am about to present might sound like downplaying a feat, but it is not. In no way am I trying to downplay a feat, any person surviving an explosion is impressive indeed. Here's the point that no one ever gives any thought to or wrongfully assumes when comparing durability between characters. When you survive an explosion, you are not surviving the entire energy of that explosion, you are only surviving a small part of it. You have to understand what volume is to move further into my post. This is a unit of volume.

If an explosion has a length width and height of L, W and H it does not mean that the character survived the entire energy of the entire explosion or supernova, they only survived a small tiny volume inside of this cube. l, h and w. The worse culprit is SCREWATTACK where they simply google how much energy is in a type of explosion and then they give that character that durability number.

"Captain America survived an exploding building, it takes X tons amount of TNT to blow up a building, Captain America therefore has X tons durability"

"Iron Fist survived Nitros explosion, there is 250 tons of TNT in Nito's explosion, therefore Iron Fist durability is 250 tons of TNT"

NO!

NO!

"Superman survives a Supernova, therefore he has this much durability 'googles energy in supernova'"

Supernova	Approximate total energy (foe)	Ejected Ni (solar masses)	Neutrino energy (foe)	Kinetic energy (foe)	Electromagnetic radiation (foe)
Type Ia	1.5	0.4 – 0.8	0.1	1.3 – 1.4	~0.01
Core collapse	100	(0.01) – 1	100	1	0.001 – 0.01
Hypernova	100	~1	100	1	~0.1
Pair instability	5–100	0.5 – 50	low?	1–100	0.01 – 0.1

First of all, can someone show me a scan of Superman surviving a supernova? I'm talking about it saying "supernova" and the scan actually showing a giant star exploding. Just because a star explodes does not mean it is a supernova. Just because someone says that their attack is a supernova (Human Torche) does not mean it's a supernova.

Okay, the Supernova ordeal would take me awhile. I'm going to do this very brief, a Supernova causes a sonic wave going at extreme high velocities. Yes it's impressive for Superman to survive such a feat, but is it as impressive as this?

Where Flash actually says his punch is a concentrated attack where all the energy of a white dwarf star is in his fist? The volume of Flashes punch and the energy in a white dwarf star, you do the math. Or this?

Where Modeus clearly states that each one of his punches results in a star losing all of its energy?

The scans above are true representations of a person surviving the energy of a star. Not what Screwattack assumed.

EDIT: If you are at ground ZERO of an explosion and survived you would have survived the hottest part of the explosion but again that does not equate to the entire energy of the explosion.

Lastly, people often mistake an explosions power by how far it reaches out. This is not the case. An explosion can have a different kind of energy powering it. For example, natural gas and gasoline mixed with air fill up a balloon. You light it on fire and it explodes. They have the same area and volume practically in their ignition. But Gasoline actually has a lot more energy and gets hotter than natural gas. Propane also gets hotter than natural gas. Same goes with a small TNT explosion and a small nuclear explosion. So a small powerful concentrated blast can have as much energy as a weak large blast. Analyzing blasts requires a lot more to think about.

1. What caused the explosion and what type of energy is it releasing? What is the source of its power?

2. How far was the person from the explosion?

3. Is the person wearing any kind of protective gear? etc.

These are the questions you must ask yourself when you compare an explosion to another one.

So you can't say Cell's self destruction is on par with Vegeta's gallick gun, it's obviously far stronger than Vegetas and probably had more energy density of destruction than it.

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

@NeonGameWave said:

@lilben42: I don`t remember that happening but can Wonder Woman tank hits from Goku for a long period of time? Or compete with him in regards to combat ability and endurance?

She was able to tank hits from Superman, Hades, Nekron, etc.... Combat ability she has more experience and more skill and combat speed, for endurance she fought a war along side superman for 1000 years straight. want scans?

It's time for us to start another discussion.

1. What proof do you have that she can survive a energy blast that can blow up a planet 10 or 15 times the size of earth?

2. What proof do you have that she's faster than Goku?

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

Wonder Woman being faster in combat speed, more skilled overall, and having an unbreakable defense should give her the win. I like how people talk about Wonder Woman's weakness to sharp things, when Goku has been pierced by a needle and bruised by a rock. Moving on, She also has more overall durability, one of Goku's "strongest attacks" could kill her if he could find the time to squat and scream for ten minutes while she sits there twirling her hair. No while hes taking a dump charging up she can decapitate him, lasso him, electrocute him, or just plain blitz him. If he decides to actually go in and fight he's going to be dominated by her superior skill, strength, endurance and speed. His instant transmission can only help him so much, his limbs don't move any faster while hes using IT, he teleports and the re-appears, like if night crawler was fighting spiderman and teleported behind him, spiderman would one shot him when he re-appears due to his superior reaction speed and strength. Same thing here, even if Goku got behind Diana she could react to Goku before he even releases whatever attack/blast and then blitz him. Break his arms so he can't even use IT anymore, Lasso him up, cut his arms off with the Tiara, burn him with magical Zeus lightning. He can toss off a Kamehameha and it'd get blocked like almost every other blast thrown at her. Whatever Goku does, she has the answer and permanent solution for.

Wonder Woman stomps SS1 Goku

LOOL

Goku beats Wonder Woman.

First of all, these claims of her speed advantage. What proof is there that she's faster than Goku? She's doesn't battle at FTL. People, again always try and use that fight where her and Superman end up at the sun. Yes, Superman flew her to the sun at FTL, but guess what, Superman CAN'T battle at FTL.

Read this scan where it describes what happens to Superman's mindset.

His mind is left behind as he flies at FTL. Therefore he does not think or battle at FTL. He's faster than a bullet, yes. But what happens when 100s of bullets are fired?

Then people are going to bring up in this debate that Wonder Woman is faster than Superman. She actually isn't, her combat experience and reflexes allow her to react and fight more efficiently than Superman. Here Batman clearly explains that Superman can move his limbs faster than her.

So how fast can the man of steel move his limbs?

How fast is Superman? Sure he can fly at faster than light (FTL), but can he actually move his body at such speeds?

By speculation maybe he can. But from what we have seen, he cannot. Not like the Flash has.

First I will address this notorious scan of Superman chasing Wally.

People try and use this scan and the calculation above to show that they are running FTL. Now they misinterpret the scan and ignore all the narration and dialogue that Wally states before he approximates his calculation. He says that if he steals Superman's speed and turns him into a statue like he did to inertia, then it the speed and momentum they are moving at would make it so like he is moving much faster than FTL. Don't believe me, I have more evidence.

This is Superman running after Flash, people have used this scan to try and say Superman easily runs at light speed. He is not flying and using his biosphere. Therefore lets accept that he is using his superspeed with his limbs. Look at his facial expression, he is struggling to catch the Flash while the Flash barely seems to exert himself. Now how fast are they actually moving? Here is the scan that people FAIL to post when they are claiming FTL again.

Read what Superman says there. He hears something speaking a hypersonic speeds meaning that the Flash, who can use his powers of the speed force to add speed to almost anything even sound itself, is not running near the speed of light here. Superman running slower than Hypderspeeds, scale how fast someone can run to how fast they can punch and you can at least have a good rough estimate of how fast Superman can battle at. I'm currently too lazy to perform the research and claculations.

Lastly, we know what happens when Barry is serious.

To be continued: As of March 3, 2012 a user (@the creator ) has pointed an awesome scan to me of Black Adam moving at Mach 500. Might debunk or give another analysis as to how fast Superman can actually move his limbs.

There you go, he can probably run and sprint at around the same level as Black Adam. Someone that can run his legs at Mach 500.

Now Dragonball Z. The mistake that plenty of people make is that they think DBZ fights are happening in real time. They are not. This is obvious when Gohan can't even perceive a fight between a fellow Z warrior and a syba man till Piccolo tells him how.

And it is only more evident that the stronger they got the faster they got as Nappa couldn't even see him. He ended up on Nappa's head.

Lets rewind a little bit and go to a piccolo feat. Piccolo at his weakest in the DBZ series destroyed the moon in less than a second. He does it almost instantly.

It takes light 1.278 seconds to travel to the moon. Piccolo fires his blast and it reaches the moon in a second. These are the speeds blasts that DBZ characters throw, dodge and receive. It's obvious from here on out they only get faster as Piccolo wasn't as fast as Nappa and Nappa wasn't as fast as Goku. This is all at the beginning of the series. Consistently DBZ characters only got faster as anyone that was at a higher level could outmaneuver their opponents in speed.

Something else to show you. When Goku uses Kiaoken, it only lasts for a single heartbeat.

So that means everytime Goku was using the Kaoiken and throwing dozens of blind speeding punches on panel or fought throughout a battlefield with Vegeta, Frieza or the Ginyu force, it happened in a heartbeat.

Now throw in Goku's ability to use instant transmission with the speeds from above. Wonder Woman seems to be the slower one here.

Wonder Woman's durability is pretty damn good. She, like Ancient one says here@Ancient_0f_Days said:

@NeonGameWave said:

@lilben42: I don`t remember that happening but can Wonder Woman tank hits from Goku for a long period of time? Or compete with him in regards to combat ability and endurance?

She was able to tank hits from Superman, Hades, Nekron, etc.... Combat ability she has more experience and more skill and combat speed, for endurance she fought a war along side superman for 1000 years straight. want scans?

Awesome indeed. But where has she been shown to survive a blast that could destroy 10 to 15 planets.

Translated: http://magikarp46.dyndns.org/dragonball/daizenshuu/07/07-046.html

For the word Kiri:

"キリ Kiri Kili An energy unit used by Bobbidi. When Bobbidi measured Goku's energy during his fight with Yakon, this unit was used. [Par.] Goku's energy level is over 3,000 kili. At approximately 200-300 kili, one can destroy 1 or 2 planets.

Again, this is taken from the DBZ handbook and translated from it. Vegeta with his power level at 18,000 was strong enough to potentially blow up earth.

Oh, but Vegeta didn't actually blow up a planet, that makes him a liar. Why would the writer bother having Goku make that statement? It's not like he hasn't sensed a planetary explosion before.

Conclusion: Wonder Woman feat wise is stronger than Goku. She has been shown in aiding the towing of a planet. But she isn't faster than Goku. Her durability isn't greater than Gokus because again Goku is a planet buster of great proportions. He's strong enough to bust a planet around 10 to 15 times the size of an average planet in his SSJ1 form. He has fought against and taken hits from Buu in his SSJ1 form who is far stronger than that. So unless someone can prove that Wonder Woman actually does outclass Goku in speed which I doubt she does and that she can take a concentrated attack that can blow up a planet 10 to 15 times greater than the average planet I doubt she wins here.

Goku is far more versatile than Diana. He can instantly teleport, fire blasts of all kinds (sharp disc, explosive balls, large beams, the list can go on) where Diana practically has NO energy projectile on her size. He can create a concentrated attack for more devastating than ANY punch Diana can dish out. Her lasso is useless as Goku can easily teleport out of its grips.

@Ancient_0f_Days: Again, Goku isn't just sitting there looking constipated. The fights we see are not happening in real time, they are happening in the time these characters perceive them. Kaioken only lasts a heart beat. He also performs a Kamahama on Frieza without even charging it. He mentally concentrates on gathering the energy and punches + attacks Frieza, anticipates where Frieza was going to be and fires it. All are happening in a heartbeat.

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

@SlimJ87D: So, once again you nitpick on one scan, completely ignore the others, and use another character solely as your proof as to why another would lose.....I really don't know how that works, since this seems to be a normal thing for you, I don't see how I could convince you. You COMPLETELY ignored all the other scans and cherry picked one, then decided to make this a Superman vs Goku thread. Well, I have no counter for it, Goku does have slightly better reaction than Superman. But you still haven't even countered any of her other equipment besides the lasso which you made an extremely poor argument for. how is he gonna teleport out of it if he cannot touch his forehead? Almost everytime he's used IT he's had his hand to his forehead besides the one time with Cell, EVERY other time he's had to use his hands. So there's that, I really don't know how you think Goku wins with the proof I provided, but anyway, carry on.

How am I nitpicking on ONE scan. Look at all the evidence that Superman, Wonder Woman and Black Adam are NOT FTL. I have a scan that directly compares Wonder Woman and Superman and them arguing about their speeds and Batman giving the proper analogy. Cherry pick what? In my debates I gather countless different occurances, scans and comparisons. That's BS for you to accuse me of so. I bet you didn't even bother reading the rest of my post. The whole point of bringing up Superman is not to have a Goku vs Superman but we have a direct comparison of Superman performing against Wonder Woman even in your scans aside from what Batman says. By proving how fast Black Adam and Superman can battle it directly proves Wonder Woman as well.

He doesn't need to touch his forehead all the time. Did you not see the scans I showed you?

And he does a IT Kamahama on cell without touching his forehead. Not if he has an idea of where his opponent is.

Here he does it again without his fingers on his forehead.

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

@SlimJ87D: In the Anime he touched his forehead to get to roshi's place, and I believe in the anime he also touched his forehead to get to Tien, it's been awhile since I've seen the Anime, but now I see your point as the manga is obviously a more direct and a more appropriate source. Alright, Goku can IT out of the Lasso.

Anyway, yeah you were nitpicking, on a single fight between wonder woman and superman then used a bunch of Superman scans proof to your single pick.

@SlimJ87D said:

Goku beats Wonder Woman.

First of all, these claims of her speed advantage. What proof is there that she's faster than Goku? She's doesn't battle at FTL. People, again always try and use that fight where her and Superman end up at the sun. Yes, Superman flew her to the sun at FTL, but guess what, Superman CAN'T battle at FTL.

That had nothing to do with the fact that Wonder Woman moved faster than light to react to the shattered god which you glazed over.

You also glazed over the fact that she deflected the blast from the gods, so goku trying to blast her with any kind of blast is kind of futile.

You failed to counter most of the arguments for Wonder Woman I presented. using Black Adam and Superman was a poor choice. You mainly focused on their travel speed although you did use the scan with Superman Batman and Wonder Woman talking about how Wonder Woman is faster in reaction speed. But most of it was washed out by pretty much pointless scans of other characters not even included in this battle. Once again, do what you wanna do, carry on.

He wasn't touching his forehead dude. He was gesturing his finger in the air. Look at the video above.

Dude, if she is capable of operating at Mach 500ish, then she's capable of reacting at stuff coming at light speed. Do I need to use real world examples again? We sure the hell can't run as fast as a flea jumps. But if a flea jumped into your eye, you have reflexes and reaction times in the microseconds to close your eyes. If you train your body with muscle memory, like Batman was saying, then one could have fast reaction times like catching a arrow blind folded or hitting a baseball or tennis ball traveling 100s of miles per an hour, much faster than we can run. We humans have microsecond reaction times, does that mean we can run and operate our minds in microseconds? No.

I didn't overlook your scans, I wrongfully assumed the explanation above was easy to think up or common sense. Honestly, shame on me, no sarcasm. I'm sorry, I should have addressed it.

Lastly, Goku is dodging light speed attacks too evident with Piccolo's explosion of the moon. They were doing this pre super saiyan and they only got dozens of times faster and stronger. If you can't accept this for some reason then I don't know about the next part. Goku at his peak super saiyan is probably faster than Wonder Woman. Compare the 3,000 kili Goku with the Piccolo that shot a blast at FTL at the moon and compare their speeds. Now throw in instant transmission. Now throw in the fight with frieza where he does a kamahama while battling without charging it. WHat if he threw a few punches at WW and IT behind her and blasted her. it might not be his strongest kahamama but it will surely damage her or even give him enough time to do his full kahamama.