Goku VS Vegeta, Who would really win?

@w0nd: That is totally irrelevant to EOZ. BOG (which was written and stated to be canon by AT) takes place 5 years after the Buu saga. Goku is obviously stronger due to absorbing SSJG, and Vegeta is stronger with the rage boost. Gohan already had all his hidden power drawn out and then some. There were multiple situations that he could have used one, yet he never did, so we don't know if he even can anymore.

Bump

As much as we all love Vegeta, this debate is pointless. He already admitted that Goku would always be better than him.

@nickzambuto: agreed

Now don't take that as a knock against Vegeta though. It's basically the equivalent of saying "eh Lord of the Rings will never be quite as epic as Star Wars." True as it may be... it's freakin Star Wars. The comparison is not needed, Lord of the Rings still does just fine on it's own.

Vegeta. He's beaten Goku every time they battle. If they fight at equal, he'd beat Goku again.

Goku would win in my opinion, he's a fighting genius and has the most actual martial arts feats out of the saiyans. A good example of Goku having superior fighting knowledge to Vegeta is that Goku realized speed was much more useful than power when training for the Cell games and Vegeta didn't, essentially allowing Goku to surpass Vegeta despite Vegeta having a lot more time to train than he did. I heard that Toriyama doesn't like Vegeta too so it's likely he'd never let him beat Goku.

Goku didn't necessarily train for speed specifically, he trained for ki control whereas Vegeta focused on raw muscle mass. In the end, it turned out Goku's method was the better choice. By mastering the Super Saiyan form, he was able to use all that left over ki from not having to power up to enhance all of his physical attributes, meanwhile Vegeta tried to enhance his physical attributes by sheer force with the results being less than satisfying.

That's the difference between an Ascended Super Saiyan and Full-Power Super Saiyan, and also why the Ascended Super Saiyan design has buff muscles while the Full-Power is more lean.

That said, Vegeta was at least smart enough to realize the Ultra-Super Saiyan form was a waste of time, unlike Trunks.

Goku

I don't love Vegeta.

It's a toss-up, either could win.

And people referencing the fight from the Buu saga aren't necessarily right in saying that they were on even footing.

Just because they were both in SS2 form doesn't mean they were equal.

And yeah, Vegeta does say that he knew once he was under Babidi's control, "the difference in our powers would disappear," but that doesn't mean they were exactly equal.

Goku. Has better skills, better techniques, and uses his abilities in more creative way.

Clearly goku.

Bog vegeta would defeat ssj3 buu saga goku

I don't dislike Vegeta but he's not one of my favourite characters and I respect the role he played in Dragonball Z's plot. The only thing that makes me start to dislike him every so often is his rampant fan boys.

It's a toss-up, either could win.

And people referencing the fight from the Buu saga aren't necessarily right in saying that they were on even footing.

Just because they were both in SS2 form doesn't mean they were equal.

And yeah, Vegeta does say that he knew once he was under Babidi's control, "the difference in our powers would disappear," but that doesn't mean they were exactly equal.

@ripcurl

Yeah they weren't exactly equal in power but they were almost equal, Goku confirms this shortly after his fight with Vegeta.

Let me rephrase that: I don't love Vegeta past the Sayian Saga. Vegeta made for an amazing villain. He was cool in the Frezia Saga, but after that he became such a bland character and was continually shoved down our throats, I couldn't stand him. And I hate his rampant fan boys too.

@gustofwind: In the anime Vegeta had a clear advantage, he even beat Goku in a beam struggle. "Almost" equal sounds about right.

Goku fans literally screwed over every other character. So no. Vegeta always has and always be weaker than goku. Its never going to change. If gohan who's existence was a HUGE plot point in DBZ was screwed over, Vegeta, Toriyama's least favorite character, will not become stronger than goku. Goku basically runs the plot due to the fanboys.

Vegeta's life story is somewhat like this.

Wouldn't they stalemate? isnt that how dbz works? I've never seen someone with a lower power level win a fight. two people with the same power level would just be evenly matched until they ran out of energy.

Goku wins, it's his story. in what way is Vegeta a better fighter than Goku? Where was that ever mentioned in DBZ? It was pretty clear that Goku was ALWAYS the better fighter and Vegeta just trained harder.

They're normally potrayed as near equals but to be honest I'd go with goku. He's always one step ahead of vegeta (which is the main driving force of vegetas character) and if it came down to it I'd say goku is the superior.

@enemybird: nope, Goku would bust his @$$. It comes down to message, Goku's message is hope while Vegeta's message is Rage. Rage, though a great source of power, burns out far too quickly. Hope is eternal.

And I wish people would stop mentioning the Buu saga fight when Goku himself admitted that he could've beaten Vegeta if he wanted to, but he wanted to reason with him to protect his pride.

Vegeta sucks.

@thedailybagel: they are not always portrayed as equals, Goku has always been his superior. Toriyama even admits to not ever liking Vegeta and that's why Vegeta is constantly on the losing end of things.

Goku > Vegeta

@superguy1591: I just said goku would win and toriyamma admitting he doesn't like vegeta means nothing.

Thor can beat these guys, Surfer, Gladiator, Sentry (DS Sentry will be just overkill), WB Hulk...to many names to list.

@thedailybagel: Him admitting not liking Vegeta proves that he went out of his way to make Vegeta a punching bag for the others. Meaning, in his mind, Goku would always be his superior.

They seemed pretty even in the anime to me too, whenever Vegeta seemed to have the upper hand Goku would turn the tables on him. Not that the anime matters at all because most of the fight in the anime is filler.

True, but the manga fight was terrible and short. In this case it might be better to go with the anime.

When did Toriyama say he hates Vegeta? I hear that all the time but no one ever sources it. I think it's just a rumor, why would a writer ever confess to hating one of his own characters? Considering Toriyama is working to make Vegeta the MAIN character over Goku in this next film, I doubt that he hates him.

http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/88/t1996357-news-rumor-that-akira-toriyama-hates-vegeta/

Here's a link where they discuss what Toriyama said about Vegeta. Basically says that he didn't like him all that much, but still found him useful. The OP of the thread seems to think that Toriyama eventually warmed to him a little bit considering his guest appearances in Neko Majin.

Just because the anime fight was longer doesn't mean it's more accurate than the canon.

I would say Goku wins but for you to bring up Goku and Majin Vegeta fight is crazy. First of all, that's not even all Vegeta's power its his power mixed with Babidi's magic. Second Vegeta mentions how no amount of training could have closed the gap in their power when he saw Goku fight Yakon and let himself be controlled by Babidi in DBZ Ep. 231 Magic Ball of Buu,

Thats BS.

Could go either way but leaning toward Goku due to him having teleportation. Also Vegeata really only ever won once against an opponent that he did not massively out power while Goku has won several times against opponents with equal or near equal power.

Definitely Goku. I've always viewed Goku as the least inventive fighter since he has pretty much never created his own attack, and that is the only place I see Vegeta being better than Goku. Goku has shown more skill, Vegeta generally relies on his ability to overwhelm his opponents (not that he doesn't fight smart) with a brawling style , where as Goku has always used a mix of Skill, Overwhelming, tricks, ect. ect. He just has better showings against more powerful opponents than Vegeta. It's really par for the course for Goku to be fighting someone stronger than him, like King Piccolo and Frieza. If Vegeta can't overwhelm he falls behind really quickly, his best showing in that area is against Recoome really. Then we have technique versatility. Solar Flare, Kienzan, Instant Transmission. Even with taking Kaio Ken and Spirit Bomb away Goku has way more versatility in his move set (even if he didn't invent any of his techniques) than Vegeta. As for Vegeta even though he has made up a lot of cool attacks most of them are variations of "how do I blow this guy up"? Vegeta is one of my fave characters but I just don't see him being able to take Goku out even if you think his showings against Goku are better.

Goku=)

Vegeta as a character wins. Goku would be my favorite if the plot wasn't goku itself. Gohan is my most favorite but since no one likes him we won't talk about him.

Under these circumstances I'd say 50/50 or a slight edge to Vegeta.

This.

I always liked Vegeta more.

@drazah:

even though he bested him both times. 2 scenarios when they actually fought.

Before the cheap shot goku was already out matched, i'm not saying an opinion, it literally went down like that, but okay. Your theory though of vegeta being gokus second by nature or falling behind because of aggressiveness only applys to power or PIS. which is of no consequence in this battle thread with OP specs. of same level. I do admit though I.T. is not normally used for combat, but it is a legitimate advantage.

I have to disagree because vegita gets a major boost from majin buu

Goku Wins

How can you tell "who really is the stronger saiyan" if you are limiting them lol. The fact that you had to put them at equal power levels and not just the have them at the same SSJ level already tells you that goku is stronger. Vegeta had to give in to babidis control just to be able to compete with goku

I always thought Vegeta was more skilled....

i give it to vegeta, their fight in the buu saga proved vegeta was more skilled and a better tactician.

@drazah: Have you seen in Battle of Gods how Goku retains his SSJ God form? He is angered by Beerus taking pleasure in destruction and loses it, then goes to SSJ1 which allows to carry on fighting Beerus who is at 70%. Also, if you've ever seen the Japanese anime, before Goku and Vegeta put the Potara earrings on, Vegeta says, "You f***** with me, Kakarot!" in reference to their earlier fight as Goku wasn't fighting at his full power. I'm pretty sure that "f'ed with me" means that he was toyed with. If Goku had gone to SSJ3, he would have clearly defeated Vegeta, but he didn't want to destroy Vegeta's pride, the thing that fuelled his strength. "Goku confirms his suspicions (that Vegeta went Majin to obtain more power) by claiming that Vegeta's angst and hatred against Goku all of these years for constantly topping Vegeta in strength have influenced his decision to allow Babidi to grant him more powers to combat Goku for a rematch. Vegeta confirms these claims," "Vegeta confirms this, stating he knew he would not beat Goku in his original state." Vegeta was stronger than him at first, in the Saiyan Saga, but Goku beats him otherwise.

Goku

Vegeta because he is a master tection and when kakarot first met Vegeta he was no match for him

Draw, they're equal in power.

Vegeta.

There's no two ways about it. Goku is a superior fighter in every way. Vegeta's entire character arc revolves around it. It's the reason he exists.

Goku but in a really close battle.