Goku vs Ryu

@Laurcus said:

@Jayfournines: Now you're being silly, and straw manning again.

@Ancient_0f_Days Did you even read the link? Saying that you're talking out your butt isn't an ad hominem. I have not attacked you, I have made a claim against your argument. You have showed no proof to counter my claim that manga isn't the only source of canon, and I have backed up my claims with evidence.

I showed much proof and even brought up a fact that you do not seem to relate to ... I guess the big words arent working ... oh well, Akira only made the manga and one movie (the bardock movie) ... fact. if he made GT as well, then there would be a manga that it would be based on written by Akira, but there is no manga for GT ...

You used DB wiki which is an unreliable source of information since it could be edited by absolutely anyone at any time, and it left out the vital information such as Akira never making a manga for GT, he only supervised it and made a drawing for how SS4 would look like, but that is the full extent of his involvement in GT, thus it is completely non canon, you used a non canon source to prove a non canon production was canon ........ whoa the irony .....

you never proved how goku can breathe in space, I debunked it all.

You haven't backed up your claims with a damn thing. I am offended by your complete and utter ignorance

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

@Laurcus said:

@Jayfournines: Now you're being silly, and straw manning again.

@Ancient_0f_Days Did you even read the link? Saying that you're talking out your butt isn't an ad hominem. I have not attacked you, I have made a claim against your argument. You have showed no proof to counter my claim that manga isn't the only source of canon, and I have backed up my claims with evidence.

I showed much proof and even brought up a fact that you do not seem to relate to ... I guess the big words arent working ... oh well, Akira only made the manga and one movie (the bardock movie) ... fact. if he made GT as well, then there would be a manga that it would be based on written by Akira, but there is no manga for GT ...

You used DB wiki which is an unreliable source of information since it could be edited by absolutely anyone at any time, and it left out the vital information such as Akira never making a manga for GT, he only supervised it and made a drawing for how SS4 would look like, but that is the full extent of his involvement in GT, thus it is completely non canon, you used a non canon source to prove a non canon production was canon ........ whoa the irony .....

you never proved how goku can breathe in space, I debunked it all.

You haven't backed up your claims with a damn thing. I am offended by your complete and utter ignorance

Ya know, I was gonna go on this long rant about the GT Perfect files and how the DB wiki gave official sources for everything it said, but I refuse to debate with anyone that uses the same logical fallacy 3 times.

@Laurcus said:

Ya know, I was gonna go on this long rant about the GT Perfect files and how the DB wiki gave official sources for everything it said, but I refuse to debate with anyone that uses the same logical fallacy 3 times.

Translation: You cannot back up what you said about DBGT being cannon or about Goku surviving in space.

Concession accepted

I think that's more of an "agree to disagree" ;)

@k4tzm4n said:

I think that's more of an "agree to disagree" ;)

Hmm ... it's just as well, either way this battle ends with two dead guys on the moon.

@marvelone said:

it is canon i thought

How are you gonna say that after reading all of- ...... or you just didn't read it at all ... *sigh*, nevermind

@marvelone:

@marvelone:

And for the record .....

Insulting Users.

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Good job.

@marvelone said:

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

Insulting Users.

if you can not debate civilly then this site is not the place for you.

Trolling

Trolling is a user who posts to incite flame wars and continues to post in a manner that is offensive or posting something that has nothing to do with the thread. Baiting other users into an argument and continuing that argument in hopes of offending that user or the community. again if you can not debate civilly and with out trying to ignite a flame war then comicvine is not the site for you.

keep it up bro .... you're makin this really easy

Saiyan are able to survive in space, for a while,

but they still need oxygen.

However it seems like they can hold their breath much longer than humans do.

The question is, will Goku be able to reach the Earth fast enough, or is he going to die first.

Either way, Ryu will die faster than Goku,

Goku wins.

@Mortein said:

The question is, will Goku be able to reach the Earth fast enough, or is he going to die first.

Either way, Ryu will die faster than Goku,

Goku wins.

How would he reach earth at all if he's on the moon ................ double ko

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

@Mortein said:

The question is, will Goku be able to reach the Earth fast enough, or is he going to die first.

Either way, Ryu will die faster than Goku,

Goku wins.

How would he reach earth at all if he's on the moon ................ double ko

He can fly very fast

@marvelone said:

i make it real easy just like i do it with your mama

but hey, if large 50 year old women are your thing, you do you ... I wont judge it ..........

@Mortein said:

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

@Mortein said:

The question is, will Goku be able to reach the Earth fast enough, or is he going to die first.

Either way, Ryu will die faster than Goku,

Goku wins.

How would he reach earth at all if he's on the moon ................ double ko

He can fly very fast

........ it takes rockets months to get to and from the moon, this is Saiyan Saga Goku ....... all he has is his nimbus ..... which is about the speed of a jet ............ he doesn't even make it off the moon before he dies

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

@Mortein said:

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

@Mortein said:

The question is, will Goku be able to reach the Earth fast enough, or is he going to die first.

Either way, Ryu will die faster than Goku,

Goku wins.

How would he reach earth at all if he's on the moon ................ double ko

He can fly very fast

........ it takes rockets months to get to and from the moon, this is Saiyan Saga Goku ....... all he has is his nimbus ..... which is about the speed of a jet ............ he doesn't even make it off the moon before he dies

I disagree, It took saiyan saga Goku approximately 27-28 hours to cross 1 000 000 km, so it would take him around 10 h to reach the earth if he traveled at the same speed.

However, when he was on a snake road he only had a PL of 5 000, he can still power up to over 8000, and use KKx4 to reach PL 32 000+. Also there was both gravity and air resistance on the snake road, once he gets free from moons gravitational pull and starts getting closer to the Earth his speed should start increasing.

It is possible for him to survive.

@Mortein said:

It is possible for him to survive.

After about an hour of flying, he'd die ... it would take him 1 week at the very least to make it from the moon to the earth ...... he's not gonna hold his breath for that long.

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

@Mortein said:

It is possible for him to survive.

After about an hour of flying, he'd die ... it would take him 1 week at the very least to make it from the moon to the earth ...... he's not gonna hold his breath for that long.

I just told he he crossed a snake way, which is 1 000 000 km long in approximately 27-28 hours, with PL 5000.

The Moon is approximately 384 000 km away from the Earth, so if he goes at the same speed he should reach the moon in approximately 10 hours.

However

With KKx4 he can reach PL 32 000 so clearly he will be much faster. On top of that there will be no air resistance, and once he gets free from moons gravity there will be nothing to slow him down. Instead his speed will just keep on increasing.

He could be able to reach the Earth in less than few hours.

@Mortein: you do know he's not holding his breath for 1 hour right, how is a few gonna even make that possible.

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

@Mortein: you do know he's not holding his breath for 1 hour right, how is a few gonna even make that possible.

Well technically, by the math, he would have to fly for 1.56 hours before he reached Earth. When moving faster than sound though, air drag is a ridiculously huge factor. And considering he was moving over 29 times the speed of sound... yeah. Air drag basically multiplies the faster you move. Once he escaped the moon's gravity, he'd reach Earth in less than 5 minutes.

Goku.

@ALMIGHTY said:

@nickzambuto: And if you knew they don't need oxygen why did you say "Double KO due to lack of oxygen"....

LMFAO.

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

@Mortein: you do know he's not holding his breath for 1 hour right, how is a few gonna even make that possible.

I said less than few hours,

we know that saiyans, much weaker than Goku were fighting in space, so holding a breath for an hour or two doesnt seem so unrealistic.

Also combat speed of saiyan saga characters was most likely close to the speed of light,

http://www.comicvine.com/dragon-balls/18-46445/combat-speed-of-dragon-ball-characters/92-649740/#1

and out in space there would be nothing to slow him down, so once he reaches relativistic speed he should keep on going that fast until he hits the Earth.

It is possible that he would reach the Earth in less than a minute.

@Mortein: your numbers keep on changing ... less than a few hours now less than a minute? that's BS and you know it ...... combat speed isn't travel speed and you also know this, goku aint making it from the moon in a minute or less ... *sigh* DBZ fan logic is the worst

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

@Mortein: your numbers keep on changing ... less than a few hours now less than a minute? that's BS and you know it ...... combat speed isn't travel speed and you also know this, goku aint making it from the moon in a minute or less ... *sigh* DBZ fan logic is the worst

Combat speed is not the same thing as travel speed, when you are on the Earth, where you have gravity and air resistance to slow you down. But in space, once he starts moving at relativistic speed, there will be nothing to slow him down.

My numbers are changing, because I don't know how much it would take him to reach the Earth, I'm trying to figure it out while debating.

@Mortein said:

Combat speed is not the same thing as travel speed, when you are on the Earth, where you have gravity and air resistance to slow you down. But in space, once he starts moving at relativistic speed, there will be nothing to slow him down.

he doesn't move at relativistic speed, unless you mean moving his arms and legs at those speeds (i doubt he was anywhere near light speed in the Saiyan Saga) he's not just going to go lightspeed cuz his limbs are ... so no, doesn't work like that.

@Mortein said:

My numbers are changing, because I don't know how much it would take him to reach the Earth, I'm trying to figure it out while debating.

You changed it from a few hours to a less than a second, I believe you when you say "I don't know".

He's not making it from the moon to the earth. Not in a second, not in a minute, not in an hour, I'd be pushing it to even suggest a day .... he doesn't posses that kind of travel speed. Not to mention that he'd at least have to spend a second one-shotting Ryu ....

Why is this even a debate? We ALL know Ryu loses

@Mortein: @Laurcus: are totally right, Goku wins and has great chances of surviving. All he needs to do is once the fight starts, fly back to Earth immediatly. Ryu dies there and Goku will probably survive.

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

@Mortein said:

Combat speed is not the same thing as travel speed, when you are on the Earth, where you have gravity and air resistance to slow you down. But in space, once he starts moving at relativistic speed, there will be nothing to slow him down.

he doesn't move at relativistic speed, unless you mean moving his arms and legs at those speeds (i doubt he was anywhere near light speed in the Saiyan Saga) he's not just going to go lightspeed cuz his limbs are ... so no, doesn't work like that.

@Mortein said:

My numbers are changing, because I don't know how much it would take him to reach the Earth, I'm trying to figure it out while debating.

You changed it from a few hours to a less than a second, I believe you when you say "I don't know".

He's not making it from the moon to the earth. Not in a second, not in a minute, not in an hour, I'd be pushing it to even suggest a day .... he doesn't posses that kind of travel speed. Not to mention that he'd at least have to spend a second one-shotting Ryu ....

Well, since you're clearly so much smarter than the rest of us, you figure it out. I'm terrible at math or I'd do it myself.

Goku moved at a speed of 35714 KPH with a PL of 5000. His height and weight can be found on the DB wiki. With those statistics, calculate the air drag using the drag equation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_equation Then, account for the air drag by increasing Goku's speed by the amount that air drag was reducing it, since the majority of the flight would be in space, where air drag doesn't apply. Then multiply the final number by 6.4 to account for Kaio Ken.

Without accounting for air drag it would take exactly 1.56 hours for Goku to reach Earth. I believe in you, you can do it.

Edit: Derp, linked the wrong thing. The drag equation I linked is for fluid dynamics. You need this one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerodynamic_drag

@Laurcus: by your calculations he would make it to earth in nearly two hours ......... thank you for proving my point. Since it'd take that long, he wouldn't be able to hold his breath for an hour straight, let alone nearly two hours. He dies less than a third of the way there.

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

@Laurcus: by your calculations he would make it to earth in nearly two hours ......... thank you for proving my point. Since it'd take that long, he wouldn't be able to hold his breath for an hour straight, let alone nearly two hours. He dies less than a third of the way there.

No, my calculations are incomplete. I never factored in air drag, which is a pretty darn big deal. You're hearing what you want to hear. We won't actually figure out how fast Goku can travel in a zero G environment until someone does the math.

@ALMIGHTY said:

@nickzambuto said:

@ALMIGHTY said:

@nickzambuto said:

@Oni_Bane said:

@nickzambuto said:

Both die from lack of oxygen.

DOUBLE KO!

Sayains can breath in space.

No one can breath in space. Space lacks oxygen, period, so nobody can breath in space. Not Superman, Thor, Silver Surfer, or Galactus.

Sayian's Survive in space... They don't need oxygen... When it comes to space, that's how DBZ works...

Bardock, Trunks, Vegeta, Broly etc... Have all been seen surviving in space for a long period of time without ANY struggle....

Theirs no explanation as to why but... the point is SAYIAN SURVIVE in space...

Saiyan's can't breath in space because there's no oxygen. However, they can survive in space because they don't need oxygen. I'm still right in saying they can't breath ;)

Did I ever say you were wrong ????

SAIYANS ..... can breath in space... jk Watch the Frieza saga tards, when Frieza's about to blow the planet up.

@Laurcus said:

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

@Laurcus: by your calculations he would make it to earth in nearly two hours ......... thank you for proving my point. Since it'd take that long, he wouldn't be able to hold his breath for an hour straight, let alone nearly two hours. He dies less than a third of the way there.

No, my calculations are incomplete. I never factored in air drag, which is a pretty darn big deal. You're hearing what you want to hear. We won't actually figure out how fast Goku can travel in a zero G environment until someone does the math.

There is no "air" drag in space ..... there is nothing to factor in, I heard right. G man dies in space.

@throughmyeyez: EXACTLY ... you are correct, sir. Although I already addressed that, its good to see people with common sense around here.

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

@Laurcus said:

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

@Laurcus: by your calculations he would make it to earth in nearly two hours ......... thank you for proving my point. Since it'd take that long, he wouldn't be able to hold his breath for an hour straight, let alone nearly two hours. He dies less than a third of the way there.

No, my calculations are incomplete. I never factored in air drag, which is a pretty darn big deal. You're hearing what you want to hear. We won't actually figure out how fast Goku can travel in a zero G environment until someone does the math.

There is no "air" drag in space ..... there is nothing to factor in, I heard right. G man dies in space.

@throughmyeyez: EXACTLY ... you are correct, sir. Although I already addressed that, its good to see people with common sense around here.

/facepalm. That's EXACTLY why Goku moves faster. He moved 35714 KPH WITH air drag. There is no air drag in space, therefore it must be factored out to calculate his true speed.

Edit: @throughmyeyez Frieza was the one that stated that, and Goku has no experience with that. Frieza and Goku are not experts on Saiyan anatomy.

Not to mention the mass migration to Planet Plant that Saiyans did 1000 years before they met the Arcosians and got space flight technology from them. That alone proves Saiyans can survive in space, at least for a while. And there's the various feats from Broly, Bardock, and Vegeta.

Since asrua's wrath ryu is allowed. Ryu can breathe in space, SMH at everyone who didn't read the OP

Since all non canon feats can be used, Ryu did defeat Galactus...

@Laurcus said:

/facepalm. That's EXACTLY why Goku moves faster. He moved 35714 KPH WITH air drag. There is no air drag in space, therefore it must be factored out to calculate his true speed.

There is another thing to factor in, on his way to king kai's planet, Goku got tired from flying, obviously his endurance improved after his training, but if he was getting tired after flying for a while, and he's now going to have to fly through space, how will he even endure to the end without tiring and needing to "catch his breath". ... also, he has to worry about freezing to death in the vacuum of space. These factors can slow him down greatly.

@Death Certificate said:

Since asrua's wrath ryu is allowed. Ryu can breathe in space, SMH at everyone who didn't read the OP

Basically though, even if he could breathe on the moon, he's not gonna last but one good punch .... then Goku has to race to earth, only to die in the vacuum of space.

@Laurcus said:

Edit: @throughmyeyez Frieza was the one that stated that, and Goku has no experience with that. Frieza and Goku are not experts on Saiyan anatomy.

Not to mention the mass migration to Planet Plant that Saiyans did 1000 years before they met the Arcosians and got space flight technology from them. That alone proves Saiyans can survive in space, at least for a while. And there's the various feats from Broly, Bardock, and Vegeta.

There you go again referencing non canon material .... Broly and vegeta were only seen unaided in space during movie or anime filler ..... not once in the manga besides when Bardock was in space for less than 5 mins was there a saiyan shown surviving un aided in space .... you never learn do you

h@Void_Paladin said:

Since all non canon feats can be used, Ryu did defeat Galactus...

oh sh*t and it DOES say non canon feats are allowed.

Ryu wins! O_O

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

@Laurcus said:

/facepalm. That's EXACTLY why Goku moves faster. He moved 35714 KPH WITH air drag. There is no air drag in space, therefore it must be factored out to calculate his true speed.

There is another thing to factor in, on his way to king kai's planet, Goku got tired from flying, obviously his endurance improved after his training, but if he was getting tired after flying for a while, and he's now going to have to fly through space, how will he even endure to the end without tiring and needing to "catch his breath". ... also, he has to worry about freezing to death in the vacuum of space. These factors can slow him down greatly.

@Death Certificate said:

Since asrua's wrath ryu is allowed. Ryu can breathe in space, SMH at everyone who didn't read the OP

Basically though, even if he could breathe on the moon, he's not gonna last but one good punch .... then Goku has to race to earth, only to die in the vacuum of space.

@Laurcus said:

Edit: @throughmyeyez Frieza was the one that stated that, and Goku has no experience with that. Frieza and Goku are not experts on Saiyan anatomy.

Not to mention the mass migration to Planet Plant that Saiyans did 1000 years before they met the Arcosians and got space flight technology from them. That alone proves Saiyans can survive in space, at least for a while. And there's the various feats from Broly, Bardock, and Vegeta.

There you go again referencing non canon material .... Broly and vegeta were only seen unaided in space during movie or anime filler ..... not once in the manga besides when Bardock was in space for less than 5 mins was there a saiyan shown surviving un aided in space .... you never learn do you

Perhaps, but the above isn't easily quantifiable, and is only conjecture on your part. It's equally possible that the journey would be so short that he wouldn't have time to get tired. I love how once I finally cut through your argument with facts you put your main point on the line with a maybe, and an unverifiable one at that.

Fine, you wanna start up the canon vs non-canon debate again? Sure, I'll bite, (though I really don't know why I'm still posting here, there's no point when you literally ignore what I say) The GT Perfect files, the official guidebook made by Toei, contain interviews with Toriyama. These interviews show how much involvement he had with making GT. And that is where the DB wiki got its facts from for the canon debate section on the GT pages. You would know this if you had bothered to look at the little number next to the text and click on the link.

Other interviews, namely, those from the Daizenshuus, show his involvement with the anime filler and the movies. Funnily enough, he had almost as much involvement with the movies as he did with the manga. In the case of the movies, everything had to be submitted to him first before he allowed it to be put into the movies.

Since you don't believe anything I say or link anyways, I'm not going to give you an exact link to these interviews. If you really want to know you can look them up yourself. Here's a hint, Kanzentai.com knows everything about everything, because it's awesome.

@Laurcus said:

Perhaps, but the above isn't easily quantifiable, and is only conjecture on your part. It's equally possible that the journey would be so short that he wouldn't have time to get tired. I love how once I finally cut through your argument with facts you put your main point on the line with a maybe, and an unverifiable one at that.

I already had to cut through two of your arguments, both which are related to non canon material. But I'll get to that later, Goku got tired from flying near the beginning of his journey down snakeway, not sure how long he'd been flying, id probably have to look at it again, but he didn't have to hold his breath. The fact that he does here means that he will lose energy even faster, factor in the freezing temp of space he'd last much less than an hour. He'd last even less since the OP stated that if Post King Kai training Goku is too much, then its switched to the level Goku was when he fought Raditz.

@Laurcus said:

Fine, you wanna start up the canon vs non-canon debate again? Sure, I'll bite, (though I really don't know why I'm still posting here, there's no point when you literally ignore what I say) The GT Perfect files, the official guidebook made by Toei, contain interviews with Toriyama. These interviews show how much involvement he had with making GT. And that is where the DB wiki got its facts from for the canon debate section on the GT pages. You would know this if you had bothered to look at the little number next to the text and click on the link.

Other interviews, namely, those from the Daizenshuus, show his involvement with the anime filler and the movies. Funnily enough, he had almost as much involvement with the movies as he did with the manga. In the case of the movies, everything had to be submitted to him first before he allowed it to be put into the movies.

Since you don't believe anything I say or link anyways, I'm not going to give you an exact link to these interviews. If you really want to know you can look them up yourself. Here's a hint, Kanzentai.com knows everything about everything, because it's awesome.

You like to use the parts of DBZ that were solely made apart from the manga, you also like to ignore the fact that any piece of material that wasn't directly made and created by Toriyama that has no manga to fall back on, is completely non canon. It doesn't matter if he was somewhat involved, if it wasn't his work directly it isn't apart of DBZ canon, period. This statement alone should be enough explaining for you to know that all those site you went on mean little to nothing in the face of this single fact, if it isn't in the Manga ... it isn't canon. He may have been involved in a few fillers and movies, but if he didn't create all of it in manga form or just not create it solely on his own like the rest of it, it isn't canon. Point - Blank. The End

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

@Laurcus said:

Perhaps, but the above isn't easily quantifiable, and is only conjecture on your part. It's equally possible that the journey would be so short that he wouldn't have time to get tired. I love how once I finally cut through your argument with facts you put your main point on the line with a maybe, and an unverifiable one at that.

I already had to cut through two of your arguments, both which are related to non canon material. But I'll get to that later, Goku got tired from flying near the beginning of his journey down snakeway, not sure how long he'd been flying, id probably have to look at it again, but he didn't have to hold his breath. The fact that he does here means that he will lose energy even faster, factor in the freezing temp of space he'd last much less than an hour. He'd last even less since the OP stated that if Post King Kai training Goku is too much, then its switched to the level Goku was when he fought Raditz.

@Laurcus said:

Fine, you wanna start up the canon vs non-canon debate again? Sure, I'll bite, (though I really don't know why I'm still posting here, there's no point when you literally ignore what I say) The GT Perfect files, the official guidebook made by Toei, contain interviews with Toriyama. These interviews show how much involvement he had with making GT. And that is where the DB wiki got its facts from for the canon debate section on the GT pages. You would know this if you had bothered to look at the little number next to the text and click on the link.

Other interviews, namely, those from the Daizenshuus, show his involvement with the anime filler and the movies. Funnily enough, he had almost as much involvement with the movies as he did with the manga. In the case of the movies, everything had to be submitted to him first before he allowed it to be put into the movies.

Since you don't believe anything I say or link anyways, I'm not going to give you an exact link to these interviews. If you really want to know you can look them up yourself. Here's a hint, Kanzentai.com knows everything about everything, because it's awesome.

You like to use the parts of DBZ that were solely made apart from the manga, you also like to ignore the fact that any piece of material that wasn't directly made and created by Toriyama that has no manga to fall back on, is completely non canon. It doesn't matter if he was somewhat involved, if it wasn't his work directly it isn't apart of DBZ canon, period. This statement alone should be enough explaining for you to know that all those site you went on mean little to nothing in the face of this single fact, if it isn't in the Manga ... it isn't canon. He may have been involved in a few fillers and movies, but if he didn't create all of it in manga form or just not create it solely on his own like the rest of it, it isn't canon. Point - Blank. The End

You didn't cut through any of my arguments, at all. And you keep spouting your opinion as fact. You also seem to have this big misconception that Toriyama made the manga entirely on his own, well guess what, he didn't. He had an entire team of assistants, editors and several co-writers that helped him out at various points, most notably among them, Masahiro Hosoda.

That's about the same level of creative help he had with the movies. So are we to dismiss the entire Cell saga as canon, just because Masahiro helped him out?

Without calculating the air drag for Goku's normal movement, all of your above points about temperature, Goku getting tired, and even scaling Goku back are nothing but conjecture, moot points, all of them.

@Laurcus said:

You didn't cut through any of my arguments, at all. And you keep spouting your opinion as fact. You also seem to have this big misconception that Toriyama made the manga entirely on his own, well guess what, he didn't. He had an entire team of assistants, editors and several co-writers that helped him out at various points, most notably among them, Masahiro Hosoda.

That's about the same level of creative help he had with the movies. So are we to dismiss the entire Cell saga as canon, just because Masahiro helped him out?

Without calculating the air drag for Goku's normal movement, all of your above points about temperature, Goku getting tired, and even scaling Goku back are nothing but conjecture, moot points, all of them.

The fact that he had help on the manga doesn't make the manga non canon since it came first. After that came the anime, which included some filler and movies which weren't in the manga. The fact that the filler and the movies didn't come from the manga is what makes it non canon. This is fact, not opinion.

Toriyama may have had some minor involvement in the filler and movies, but since the filler isn't in the manga and most movies are out of sync the with mainstream DBZ timeline, it is not canon to the DBZ anime or series (with the exception of the Bardock movie since it was created by Toriyama like the rest of the manga in manga form). The Cell Saga was made in the manga first and complies with the rest of the DBZ story line, which is what makes it completely canon unlike the movies and filler which in most cases do not fit in with the events in the story properly. Nice try though.

Goku's normal movement is technically now much less since the OP states ...

@BloodsunX said:

Note: If this battle is stmp on Goku's Part, i'll make it the Goku for when he fought Radditz.

At this point he relied on his Flying Nimbus for travel and wasn't that fast at natural flight at all really. So .... now you have to go back to the drawing board, while I stand true to my previous statement. Goku dies from lack of oxygen and due to lack of appropriate transportation back to earth ... try again

@throughmyeyez said:

@ALMIGHTY said:

@nickzambuto said:

@ALMIGHTY said:

@nickzambuto said:

@Oni_Bane said:

@nickzambuto said:

Both die from lack of oxygen.

DOUBLE KO!

Sayains can breath in space.

No one can breath in space. Space lacks oxygen, period, so nobody can breath in space. Not Superman, Thor, Silver Surfer, or Galactus.

Sayian's Survive in space... They don't need oxygen... When it comes to space, that's how DBZ works...

Bardock, Trunks, Vegeta, Broly etc... Have all been seen surviving in space for a long period of time without ANY struggle....

Theirs no explanation as to why but... the point is SAYIAN SURVIVE in space...

Saiyan's can't breath in space because there's no oxygen. However, they can survive in space because they don't need oxygen. I'm still right in saying they can't breath ;)

Did I ever say you were wrong ????

SAIYANS ..... can breath in space... jk Watch the Frieza saga tards, when Frieza's about to blow the planet up.

How do you breathe in a place where there is no oxygen fool ???

Yes they can survive in space, but its not through breathing, they don't need to breathe...

@throughmyeyez said:

@ALMIGHTY said:

@nickzambuto said:

@ALMIGHTY said:

@nickzambuto said:

@Oni_Bane said:

@nickzambuto said:

Both die from lack of oxygen.

DOUBLE KO!

Sayains can breath in space.

No one can breath in space. Space lacks oxygen, period, so nobody can breath in space. Not Superman, Thor, Silver Surfer, or Galactus.

Sayian's Survive in space... They don't need oxygen... When it comes to space, that's how DBZ works...

Bardock, Trunks, Vegeta, Broly etc... Have all been seen surviving in space for a long period of time without ANY struggle....

Theirs no explanation as to why but... the point is SAYIAN SURVIVE in space...

Saiyan's can't breath in space because there's no oxygen. However, they can survive in space because they don't need oxygen. I'm still right in saying they can't breath ;)

Did I ever say you were wrong ????

SAIYANS ..... can breath in space... jk Watch the Frieza saga tards, when Frieza's about to blow the planet up.

They can't breath in space but they can survive in space.

Goku didn't know he could survive in space.

Goku one shot Ryu...and die flying to the earth.

He can't use the kaio ken so long,he use the kaio ken x4 against Vegeta's Garlic Ho and almost die

LOL kid goku when he fought master roshi during the world tournement would have won easily.

Bump.

why are you intentionally bumping banned threads ?!

@saren@god_spawn@jedixman

Goku

Don't bump banned threads.