Goku vs Luke Cage

This topic is locked from further discussion.

Avatar image for mortein
Mortein

8328

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#1  Edited By Mortein

Goku from the end of DB, without super speed, and without energy blasts, vs Luke Cage

Avatar image for ssjsuperman_
ssjsuperman

955

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#2  Edited By ssjsuperman
@Mortein:
withhout speed or blast then he loses. 
 
and you need to read more anime man
Avatar image for drkcloud
drkcloud

319

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#3  Edited By drkcloud
@ssjsuperman : roflmao read more anime, good one
Avatar image for mortein
Mortein

8328

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#4  Edited By Mortein
@ssjsuperman said:

" @Mortein: withhout seed or blast then he loses.  and you need to read more anime man "

why do you think he has no chance?
He was able to lift over 20T, and survive Nuclear level blasts, easily. 
Avatar image for swaggab0y
SwaggaB0y

5446

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#5  Edited By SwaggaB0y
@drkcloud said:
" @ssjsuperman : roflmao read more anime, good one "
lol >_<
Avatar image for drkcloud
drkcloud

319

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#6  Edited By drkcloud
@Mortein: hes talking about baby goku in dragonball, not dragonball z, and since kid goku isn't allowed to have speed OR use energy blasts, its pretty one sided
Avatar image for baldy
Baldy

4960

Forum Posts

134

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

#7  Edited By Baldy
@ssjsuperman said:
" @Mortein: withhout seed or blast then he loses.  and you need to read more anime man "
Avatar image for ssjsuperman_
ssjsuperman

955

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#8  Edited By ssjsuperman
@Morte what is this db or dbz
Avatar image for swaggab0y
SwaggaB0y

5446

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#9  Edited By SwaggaB0y
@ssjsuperman said:
" @Morte what is this db or dbz "
its DB it says it in the OP
Avatar image for mortein
Mortein

8328

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#10  Edited By Mortein
@ssjsuperman said:
" @Morte what is this db or dbz "
DB
Avatar image for ssjsuperman_
ssjsuperman

955

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#11  Edited By ssjsuperman
@Mortein:
ok well you took away the speed but goku is still perrty srtong and can has spiderman like durabilite so in think goku can do it. 
 
but when did he  lift over 20T and in the manga
Avatar image for drkcloud
drkcloud

319

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#12  Edited By drkcloud
@ssjsuperman : his arguement was for DBZ and in DBZ he can lift well over 20 tons
Avatar image for ssjsuperman_
ssjsuperman

955

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#13  Edited By ssjsuperman
@drkcloud:
ok i see but he should have said he could lift well over 40tons. 
 
and the amount of weight they can lift in dbz    change like 3 times.
Avatar image for mortein
Mortein

8328

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#14  Edited By Mortein
@ssjsuperman said:

" @Mortein: ok well you took away the speed but goku is still perrty srtong and can has spiderman like durabilite so in think goku can do it.  but when did he  lift over 20T and in the manga "

 

If Goku is tall 1.75m then Piccolo who is approximately 7x taller has 12.25m

If normal piccolo has 1.85m and 85kg then big Piccolo has

12.25/1.85=6.621

6.621^3=290.33

290.33x85kg=24 T , the probability of mistake cannot be bigger then 5 T, more or less.
 


No Caption Provided

No Caption Provided
 

And Goku lifted him and tossed away. Which means this Goku was 20+ T.

 

Avatar image for drkcloud
drkcloud

319

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#15  Edited By drkcloud
@ssjsuperman : well at the point of buu he can lift 40 tons with ease as ssj1, he can probably lift over 100 tons if he goes to ssj 2 or 3 (speculation)
anyways, lets not get into DBZ for now lol, we're not talking about that, anyways Luke cage wins, curb stomp
Avatar image for mortein
Mortein

8328

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#16  Edited By Mortein

And about durability, I think this is his best feat.

No Caption Provided


No Caption Provided

I sure can see Luke wining this( still I would give an edge to goku 6/10) but crumb stomp, no way.
plus I think goku is a better fighter
Avatar image for drkcloud
drkcloud

319

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#17  Edited By drkcloud
@Mortein:  DB powers are inconsistent, powerwise luke wise this BY FAR. Goku barely was able to lift 3/4th of a ton while training with kaio(10x gravity) and he was MASSIVELY powered up beyond what everyone else thought. that was in DBZ, in DB, he was about 1/10th of that strength which would logically make his weight lifting limit along 150 lbs which would make it completely inconsistent with his earlier childhood feats, he tossed 300-400 lb guys with a hand push in the preliminaries during the second world tournament. (i guess in a sense it could be considered a plot device) but regardless his strength in DB was less then a TON(never showed any physical feats above throwing heavy guys out of the ring) your assumption that goku is 20ton+ is VERY much overexaggerated, they NEVER explained whether Piccolo's weight shifted along with his size nor explained how, besides you don't know if he was 20 tons either, its complete speculation. while luke cage's power is ranked class 20 in marvel databases (25 ton range) thats 25x more powerful then goku. 
 
plus he can't use his speed OR energy blasts, how're you giving goku the edge? its a one-sided curb stomp
 
hell he can even kick pre-SSJ DBZ Goku's ass, strengthwise he can completely whoop his arse. (but we're not going there!)
 
also why did you CUBE the number when you divided his height with gokus?
Avatar image for swaggab0y
SwaggaB0y

5446

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#18  Edited By SwaggaB0y
@Mortein said:
" @ssjsuperman said:

" @Mortein: ok well you took away the speed but goku is still perrty srtong and can has spiderman like durabilite so in think goku can do it.  but when did he  lift over 20T and in the manga "

 

If Goku is tall 1.75m then Piccolo who is approximately 7x taller has 12.25m

If normal piccolo has 1.85m and 85kg then big Piccolo has

12.25/1.85=6.621

6.621^3=290.33

290.33x85kg=24 , the probability of mistake cannot be bigger then 5 T, more or less.
 


No Caption Provided

No Caption Provided
 

And Goku lifted him and tossed away. Which means this Goku was 20+ T.

 

"
sounds like speculation to me.
Avatar image for drkcloud
drkcloud

319

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#19  Edited By drkcloud
@Mortein: remember, in kaio's planet with 10x gravity his weight which was 85kg (about 170lbs) was multiplied by ten which makes it 1700 lbs. he was barely able to move. (1 ton=2000lbs)   if he was barely to move at less then a ton hows he able to lift over 20 tons? once again your formula is COMPLETE speculation. if piccolo was able to shift his weight how'd he do it? there never was an explanation for it
Avatar image for mortein
Mortein

8328

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#20  Edited By Mortein
@drkcloud said:

" @Mortein: remember, in kaio's planet with 10x gravity his weight which was 85kg (about 170lbs) was multiplied by ten which makes it 1700 lbs. he was barely able to move. (1 ton=2000lbs)   if he was barely to move at less then a ton hows he able to lift over 20 tons? once again your formula is COMPLETE speculation. if piccolo was able to shift his weight how'd he do it? there never was an explanation for it "

LOL if his weight wasn't shifting with his size, then he would became lighter then air. How did he do it I dont know, maybe he was turning energy into mass, maybe magic ect.

No Caption Provided
 
 

No Caption Provided

He was able to jump this high with extra weight on planet with gravity 10x earths, and that was before he adopted to gravity. In very short time he was able to move normally on kais planet.
 
My calculation wasn't speculation
volume increases to a third
 
Besides:
This guy is weaker then Goku:

No Caption Provided

these are much weaker then goku:

No Caption Provided


No Caption Provided

Tao was able to trow a pillar that have more then 100 kg miles away
No Caption Provided

No Caption Provided


No Caption Provided



No Caption Provided
Goku punching threw walls and metal robots

No Caption Provided

Goku is much much stronger then these guys:

No Caption Provided


No Caption Provided
Avatar image for drkcloud
drkcloud

319

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#21  Edited By drkcloud
@Mortein: and im TELLING you the powerlevels are extremely inconsistent. if he was able to throw 20 tons (which he seemed to do so with ease) why was he troubled in moving what was 10x gravity (1700 lbs)? your arguement was that he later did so with ease......OF COURSE IT DID, that was the POINT of going to the kai's planet to train, obviously he would be STRONGER but we're taking this in the perspective of goku being in the DB universe which by all means SHOULD be much weaker then the very beginnings of the DBZ sequel. Besides,  your calculations aren't concrete, there is ABSOLUTELY no evidence supporting your claim WHATSOEVER. just because he increased in size doesn't necessarily mean that increased in weight. my speculation is that he didn't increase weight but rather gained leverage due to his size. (similar weight but different sized objects require different amount of strength due to leverage) example take a 10 lb dumbell, lift it, now take a 10lb folding chair or chair, lift it by one end of it. you'll notice how much more effort it took to lift the chair. Now look at the world tournament episode in DBZ goku was training with 1-2 ton weights, not 20 ton, not 10 ton, but 1-2 tons. Even after training all this time, WITH the history of 100x gravity AND increased intensity in the hyperbolic time chamber he was STILL using 1-2 tons pre-saiyan. needless to say this form of goku was already INFINITELY stronger then he was directly After DB. Need i say more?
Avatar image for misterguyman
MisterGuyMan

2624

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#22  Edited By MisterGuyMan
@drkcloud said:
The gravity was unknown.  His length of training is likewise unknown.  He could have been training for days in multiple Earth gravity.  Also Goku regularly goes around suppressing his mamimum power. 
Avatar image for ssjsuperman_
ssjsuperman

955

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#23  Edited By ssjsuperman
@drkcloud:
i wonder how it got so mest up it probable    do to much filer or or problems with dubbing it in english    or maybe because they had two writing taffs  well maybe they will fix it with the new drgon ball kai show.  
 
but i still think goku can win this but it will be a hard fight
 
Avatar image for drkcloud
drkcloud

319

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#24  Edited By drkcloud
@MisterGuyMan: yea but likewise, pre-dbz goku hasn't shown any sort of training feat or actual feat that could match 20 ton plus that would otherwise not fuck up the continuity of the  story WHICH is linear (same creator, linear transition)  even if he uses 1 ton for a prolonged period of time its 1/25th the power of luke cage's max, ofcourse lets assume that it WAS for a prolonged period of time, hes still DEAD, dead people do not tire, or atleast they recover and prolong a longer period of energy (according to near the end of the buu saga where goku couldn't recover nearly as much as he expected) that also factors into his prolonged training as the dead tires less, or if any at all.  king kai probably IS aware that there is gravity and nonetheless created one-two ton weights accordingly.
 
Pre-dbz gokuwise, he hasn't shown ANY feat you're assuming a higher level of power than hes suppose to have.. hes not lifting 20 tons because he CANT lift 20 tons, if you look at future feats then it screws with the continuity if he COULD lift twenty tons he would have ABSOLUTELY no problem moving around 10, 20 or even 100x earths gravity, as i've stated before. Manga is much different then comics in that generally an author finishes his own work.
Avatar image for misterguyman
MisterGuyMan

2624

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#25  Edited By MisterGuyMan
@drkcloud said:
Goku can lift mountains by his ki alone.  Piccolo, as another example, could lift a pyramid with his ki.  Even as a child, the very first time the audience sees him actually, he's able to lift cars.  You also need to remember that Z fighters routinely fight and train at reduced power.  Frankly, the only time they're actually ever going at full power is when they say they are.  Every other time, they're just half assing it.
 
Then there's the stated power levels which, as stated by canon sources, has a direct correlation to strength.  Doubling power level doubles strength.  That's stated as well.
Avatar image for mortein
Mortein

8328

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#26  Edited By Mortein

 
@drkcloud said:

" @MisterGuyMan: yea but likewise, pre-dbz goku hasn't shown any sort of training feat or actual feat that could match 20 ton plus that would otherwise not fuck up the continuity of the  story WHICH is linear (same creator, linear transition)  even if he uses 1 ton for a prolonged period of time its 1/25th the power of luke cage's max, ofcourse lets assume that it WAS for a prolonged period of time, hes still DEAD, dead people do not tire, or atleast they recover and prolong a longer period of energy (according to near the end of the buu saga where goku couldn't recover nearly as much as he expected) that also factors into his prolonged training as the dead tires less, or if any at all.  king kai probably IS aware that there is gravity and nonetheless created one-two ton weights accordingly. Pre-dbz gokuwise, he hasn't shown ANY feat you're assuming a higher level of power than hes suppose to have.. hes not lifting 20 tons because he CANT lift 20 tons, if you look at future feats then it screws with the continuity if he COULD lift twenty tons he would have ABSOLUTELY no problem moving around 10, 20 or even 100x earths gravity, as i've stated before. Manga is much different then comics in that generally an author finishes his own work. "

  I have showed you feats that puts them far above 1T. DBZ characters are always powered down except during intensive fights.
And if Piccolos weight wasn't shifting with his size, then he would have became much lighter than air, so yes, he had over 20T and goku lifted him and tossed away.
 
 
@MisterGuyMan said:

" @drkcloud said: Goku can lift mountains by his ki alone.  Piccolo, as another example, could lift a pyramid with his ki.  Even as a child, the very first time the audience sees him actually, he's able to lift cars.  You also need to remember that Z fighters routinely fight and train at reduced power.  Frankly, the only time they're actually ever going at full power is when they say they are.  Every other time, they're just half assing it.  Then there's the stated power levels which, as stated by canon sources, has a direct correlation to strength.  Doubling power level doubles strength.  That's stated as well. "

they even sometimes refer it as  fighting strength

No Caption Provided
Avatar image for baldy
Baldy

4960

Forum Posts

134

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

#27  Edited By Baldy

None of these scans leads me to believe he can life more than a few tons. The most convincing is the one with the large Piccolo but you're guessing at his weight. He could still weight the same as his normal weight for all we know and besides he didn't lift him up all he did was an over the shoulder throw and to do that all he needs to do is shift his weight awkwardly so that he falls.

Avatar image for wisppeons
Wisppeons

3889

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

#28  Edited By Wisppeons

nice edited scan.

Avatar image for mortein
Mortein

8328

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#29  Edited By Mortein
@Baldy said:
" None of these scans leads me to believe he can life more than a few tons. The most convincing is the one with the large Piccolo but you're guessing at his weight. He could still weight the same as his normal weight for all we know and besides he didn't lift him up all he did was an over the shoulder throw and to do that all he needs to do is shift his weight awkwardly so that he falls. "
Tao tossing pillar more then few miles away means he can lift more then few tons. 
again lol, If piccolos weight wants shifting with his size he would be much lighter then air. Do you honestly think that piccolo doesn't have more then 90 Kg?
and to do what goku did is actually much harder to do, then just bench press 20 T
Avatar image for ultimatewarrior123
ultimatewarrior123

1407

Forum Posts

837

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Goku wins this due to reasons already stated: 
Mortein has already used maths to show you goku's strength. 
It was stated in the cooler movie that ki can be concentrated to a single point, just imagine Master Roshi's moonbusting power in a fist. 
Goku is a very skilled martial artist.  
 
@Mortein:    What would goku's speed be, you can't just make him slower than Luke cage.

Avatar image for mortein
Mortein

8328

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#31  Edited By Mortein
@ultimatewarrior123 said:
"
 
@Mortein:    What would goku's speed be, you can't just make him slower than Luke cage. "
As fast as Cage
Avatar image for baldy
Baldy

4960

Forum Posts

134

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

#32  Edited By Baldy
@Mortein said:
" @Baldy said:
" None of these scans leads me to believe he can life more than a few tons. The most convincing is the one with the large Piccolo but you're guessing at his weight. He could still weight the same as his normal weight for all we know and besides he didn't lift him up all he did was an over the shoulder throw and to do that all he needs to do is shift his weight awkwardly so that he falls. "
Tao tossing pillar more then few miles away means he can lift more then few tons.  again lol, If piccolos weight wants shifting with his size he would be much lighter then air. Do you honestly think that piccolo doesn't have more then 90 Kg? and to do what goku did is actually much harder to do, then just bench press 20 T "
Where does it show the pillar landing miles away? We don't even know how much the pillar weights. How do you know what Goku was harder than lifting 20 tons? This is all speculation.
 
Looks like Cage wins this one to me, he wouldn't be able to hit Goku until he tires out but Goku can't hurt him.
 
@ultimatewarrior123 said:
" Goku wins this due to reasons already stated: 
Mortein has already used maths to show you goku's strength. 
It was stated in the cooler movie that ki can be concentrated to a single point, just imagine Master Roshi's moonbusting power in a fist. 
Goku is a very skilled martial artist.  
 
@Mortein:    What would goku's speed be, you can't just make him slower than Luke cage. "

Math based on speculation. Cooler movie isn't canon.
Avatar image for misterguyman
MisterGuyMan

2624

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#33  Edited By MisterGuyMan

The manga says more than once that the Z fighters can concentrate their ki. 
 
The math is actually based on canon sources.  Double the power level, and you double his strength.  That's stated in the manga.

Avatar image for drkcloud
drkcloud

319

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#34  Edited By drkcloud
@MisterGuyMan: yea but we don't know the exact strength his Battle strength means when its translated to physical power, he was considered 300-400 when he fought raditz, after training in 10x gravity w/ kaio's training his power became 5000...... that was when he was training under less then a TON, and he became TWENTY times stronger....what does that tell you?
 

@Mortein:

once again his weight is complete speculation, first of all you do NOT know if his weight becomes proportional, you've COMPLETELY ignored my arguements earlier, ASIDE from that and i'm saying this purely just for aesthetic reasons, you do NOT know if his weight is shifted proportionally to the way you've measured it, all of it is SPECULATION. 
 
I accept the fact that dragonball characters dont use their full power full time HOWEVER Battle strength is NOT proportional to Actual strength in dbz, to prove it lets use some of that Battle strength->actual strength proportional math you guys love so much.
IN the world tournament saga, goku wasn't able to lift 20 tons until he became Super Saiyan. now this is goku who trained for SEVEN years since cell, so im using a base number of 7 (seeing as how much people powered up people in DBZ could've gotten during that time, i'm HIGHLY underating it as 7 instead of a crazy number like 20-30 since goku was able to level up to both SSJ2 and SSJ3 during that time which infact could've made him 100x stronger)  now at CELL, he trained for One year under not only 10x gravity but INTENSE temperature changes both hot and cold, i'm giving that a base number of 3, now once again im underating the amount they could've grown since gohan was able to access SSJ2 from SSJ1.
 
now REMEMBER these 2 numbers, 7 and 3
 
when Frieza first fought against vegeta he was around 500,000 when he transformed he Doubled his power into over 1 million. now after that he transformed again ( we can assume he doubled his power yet again) so from 1 million it becomes 2 million and yet he transformed again from 2 million to 4 million. (this was when he was using less then 10% of his full power)
 
Goku fought against his final form evenly with kaiokenx5,  now if frieza's powerlevel were 4 million then gokus would be naturally 4 million divided by 5 based on his kaioken ( yes kaioken PROPORTIONALLY increases his ki based on which numbered kaioken he was using) that would make Goku's natural powerlevel prior to ken to be 800,000 after he recovered from all the damage he took from Ginyu (saiyans get exponentially stronger once they recover)  from 100,000ish(stated)->800,000
 
its reasonable to assume so because Vegeta got healed and went from a powerlevel of approximately 45,000(compared to zarbon and recoom) to approximately 1 million(matching Frieza's first form) after dende's heal that is 2 heals, 
if you divide 1 million by 45,000 you get 24ish. divide that by 2 or 3(*if you count his powerup directly after fighting captain ginyu) you get about 8-12 time stronger after each heal. which coincides with the amount goku got stronger after ginyu's fight
 
so remember that number 800,000? multiply that by 3 and 7 what'd you get? about 16,800,000. (yes goku's regular AND super saiyan's ki gets stronger not just super saiyan's ki otherwise he would never train outside of being super saiyan.)
 
now raditz said that goku's ki was 400ish->800ish(after doing a kamehameha) so divide 16,800,000by 800, you get 21000. so goku was 21000 times stronger then he was at near beginning of DBZ and PRE-DBZ. and yet he couldn't lift 20 tons.....does that tell you that your formula is completely FUCKED and skewed? obviously power levels mean absolutely NOTHING in DBZ hence why they removed it after Frieza saga. (they brought back a different version of battle power which they called killi which was once again discontinued)
now using REVERSE logic if he was able to lift 20 tons at Pre-DBZ level /beginning of dbz level that means he can lift 20tons X21000 which makes it 410000 tons at World saga level. Let me remind you that this logic has not included SSJ or SSJ 3 into the logic which would raise it by approximately 100 times what his normal strength is, which would make it to 41million tons....still convinced your battle power means jack?
 
~my Arguement still stands, IF 7 years(cell->world tournament saga) X 1 year(1 day in hyperbolic time chamber) X 3 years (from trunks saga->android saga)X all the other years that he has trained(approximately 6-7ish) after DB story line and he STILL can't lift 20 tons in normal form at the beginning of World tournament saga no way in HELL can he do it DB.....he can't come CLOSE to it based on the continuity of the story.  LET ME REMIND YOU DBZ IS CANON
Avatar image for wisppeons
Wisppeons

3889

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

#35  Edited By Wisppeons

heh 

Avatar image for baldy
Baldy

4960

Forum Posts

134

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

#36  Edited By Baldy
@MisterGuyMan said:
" The manga says more than once that the Z fighters can concentrate their ki.   The math is actually based on canon sources.  Double the power level, and you double his strength.  That's stated in the manga. "
Show where battle strength is equal to physical strength.
Avatar image for push
Push

1558

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#37  Edited By Push

Goku is well above Cage. You'd need to go much, much higher than Cage for Goku!
Avatar image for baldy
Baldy

4960

Forum Posts

134

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

#38  Edited By Baldy
@Push said:
" Goku is well above Cage. You'd need to go much, much higher than Cage for Goku! "
Citation needed.
Avatar image for push
Push

1558

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#39  Edited By Push
@Baldy said:
" @Push said:
" Goku is well above Cage. You'd need to go much, much higher than Cage for Goku! "
Citation needed. "


You'd need to have alot more going for ya than just invulnerability/hard to take on let alone defeat Goku! Again, Cage goes done, and not that hard for Goku in the end!
Avatar image for baldy
Baldy

4960

Forum Posts

134

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

#40  Edited By Baldy
@Push said:
" @Baldy said:
" @Push said:
" Goku is well above Cage. You'd need to go much, much higher than Cage for Goku! "
Citation needed. "
You'd need to have alot more going for ya than just invulnerability/hard to take on let alone defeat Goku! Again, Cage goes done, and not that hard for Goku in the end! "
Cage is tougher and stronger, Goku only has him in speed.
Avatar image for mortein
Mortein

8328

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#41  Edited By Mortein

 @drkcloud:

 once again his weight is complete speculation, first of all you do NOT know if his weight becomes proportional, you've COMPLETELY ignored my arguements earlier, ASIDE from that and i'm saying this purely just for aesthetic reasons, you do NOT know if his weight is shifted proportionally to the way you've measured it, all of it is SPECULATION.

Why wouldn't it became propositional? I have proven his weight increased, and it would be logical that it increased proportionally. Besides even the floor under him started crushing once he shift his size for second time
No Caption Provided

 

I accept the fact that dragonball characters dont use their full power full time HOWEVER Battle strength is NOT proportional to Actual strength in dbz, to prove it lets use some of that Battle strength->actual strength proportional math you guys love so much.
IN the world tournament saga, goku wasn't able to lift 20 tons until he became Super Saiyan. now this is goku who trained for SEVEN years since cell, so im using a base number of 7 (seeing as how much people powered up people in DBZ could've gotten during that time, i'm HIGHLY underating it as 7 instead of a crazy number like 20-30 since goku was able to level up to both SSJ2 and SSJ3 during that time which infact could've made him 100x stronger)  now at CELL, he trained for One year under not only 10x gravity but INTENSE temperature changes both hot and cold, i'm giving that a base number of 3, now once again im underating the amount they could've grown since gohan was able to access SSJ2 from SSJ1.

I assume you are talking about when he struggled with 10T (or maybe even 40T) on each limb.
I dont except that feat because
  We do not know the gravity of a planet goku was on. Since Goku used that planet for training it is logical to assume how that planet had gravity much bigger than earth. Of course, that would be speculation, but even bigger speculation would be to say how some random unknown planet in some other dimension has the same gravity as earth.  
 
 Goku obviously was powered down when he struggled with 40 T. DBZ characters are always powered down, except during intensive fights. We do not know what gokus power level was, but it probably was around 5000(speculation). After he powered up, moving with 40T in super speed, was peace of cake, to easy, so he obviously powered up to much.    
   
So since we do not know the gravity of a planet, nor do we know how much powered down goku was, that feat tell us nothing more than that goku at power level 15 000 000+ , on a planet with unknown gravity can easily move in super speed with 10T (or maybe even 40T) on each limb, so basically that feat tells us nothing.  
 
No Caption Provided

 
 
No Caption Provided

No Caption Provided
 
 
No Caption Provided
Avatar image for baldy
Baldy

4960

Forum Posts

134

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

#42  Edited By Baldy
@Mortein said:
"  @drkcloud:

 once again his weight is complete speculation, first of all you do NOT know if his weight becomes proportional, you've COMPLETELY ignored my arguements earlier, ASIDE from that and i'm saying this purely just for aesthetic reasons, you do NOT know if his weight is shifted proportionally to the way you've measured it, all of it is SPECULATION.

Why wouldn't it became propositional? I have proven his weight increased, and it would be logical that it increased proportionally. Besides even the floor under him started crushing once he shift his size for second time
No Caption Provided

 

I accept the fact that dragonball characters dont use their full power full time HOWEVER Battle strength is NOT proportional to Actual strength in dbz, to prove it lets use some of that Battle strength->actual strength proportional math you guys love so much.
IN the world tournament saga, goku wasn't able to lift 20 tons until he became Super Saiyan. now this is goku who trained for SEVEN years since cell, so im using a base number of 7 (seeing as how much people powered up people in DBZ could've gotten during that time, i'm HIGHLY underating it as 7 instead of a crazy number like 20-30 since goku was able to level up to both SSJ2 and SSJ3 during that time which infact could've made him 100x stronger)  now at CELL, he trained for One year under not only 10x gravity but INTENSE temperature changes both hot and cold, i'm giving that a base number of 3, now once again im underating the amount they could've grown since gohan was able to access SSJ2 from SSJ1.

I assume you are talking about when he struggled with 10T (or maybe even 40T) on each limb.
I dont except that feat because
  We do not know the gravity of a planet goku was on. Since Goku used that planet for training it is logical to assume how that planet had gravity much bigger than earth. Of course, that would be speculation, but even bigger speculation would be to say how some random unknown planet in some other dimension has the same gravity as earth.  
 
 Goku obviously was powered down when he struggled with 40 T. DBZ characters are always powered down, except during intensive fights. We do not know what gokus power level was, but it probably was around 5000(speculation). After he powered up, moving with 40T in super speed, was peace of cake, to easy, so he obviously powered up to much.   
No Caption Provided

 
 
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
"
More speculation. It doesn't matter what happened in DBZ this is DB Goku.
Avatar image for misterguyman
MisterGuyMan

2624

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#43  Edited By MisterGuyMan
@Baldy said:
" Show where battle strength is equal to physical strength. "
Avatar image for drkcloud
drkcloud

319

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#44  Edited By drkcloud
@Mortein said:
"  @drkcloud:

 once again his weight is complete speculation, first of all you do NOT know if his weight becomes proportional, you've COMPLETELY ignored my arguements earlier, ASIDE from that and i'm saying this purely just for aesthetic reasons, you do NOT know if his weight is shifted proportionally to the way you've measured it, all of it is SPECULATION.

Why wouldn't it became propositional? I have proven his weight increased, and it would be logical that it increased proportionally. Besides even the floor under him started crushing once he shift his size for second time
No Caption Provided

 

I accept the fact that dragonball characters dont use their full power full time HOWEVER Battle strength is NOT proportional to Actual strength in dbz, to prove it lets use some of that Battle strength->actual strength proportional math you guys love so much.
IN the world tournament saga, goku wasn't able to lift 20 tons until he became Super Saiyan. now this is goku who trained for SEVEN years since cell, so im using a base number of 7 (seeing as how much people powered up people in DBZ could've gotten during that time, i'm HIGHLY underating it as 7 instead of a crazy number like 20-30 since goku was able to level up to both SSJ2 and SSJ3 during that time which infact could've made him 100x stronger)  now at CELL, he trained for One year under not only 10x gravity but INTENSE temperature changes both hot and cold, i'm giving that a base number of 3, now once again im underating the amount they could've grown since gohan was able to access SSJ2 from SSJ1.

I assume you are talking about when he struggled with 10T (or maybe even 40T) on each limb.
I dont except that feat because
  We do not know the gravity of a planet goku was on. Since Goku used that planet for training it is logical to assume how that planet had gravity much bigger than earth. Of course, that would be speculation, but even bigger speculation would be to say how some random unknown planet in some other dimension has the same gravity as earth.  
 
 Goku obviously was powered down when he struggled with 40 T. DBZ characters are always powered down, except during intensive fights. We do not know what gokus power level was, but it probably was around 5000(speculation). After he powered up, moving with 40T in super speed, was peace of cake, to easy, so he obviously powered up to much.    
   
So since we do not know the gravity of a planet, nor do we know how much powered down goku was, that feat tell us nothing more than that goku at power level 15 000 000+ , on a planet with unknown gravity can easily move in super speed with 10T (or maybe even 40T) on each limb, so basically that feat tells us nothing.  
 
No Caption Provided

 
 
No Caption Provided

No Caption Provided
 
 
No Caption Provided
"
regarding the planet's gravity, while i also believe there must've been a higher gravity then earth's it was never mentioned thereafter, so all im going by is the number which they gave out which was 1 ton, 10 ton, etc. even if say it weighed about 100 tons,1000tons, 10000 tons, or even 100000 tons, goku was hypothetically 21000 times stronger then he was in the beginning of DBZ (which was STILL slightly stronger then DB goku) and considering how Powerlevels supposedly is proportional to actual strength hes suppose to be 21000 times stronger. (1000x gravity which would make the weights 100000 (10 tons)tons would still give goku a 5 ton strength level at best and that is assuming the ABSOLUTE best for goku considering that the planet would NO WAY be 1000x gravity or even 100x gravity since all the fighters in the afterworld tournament (the strongest contenders were picked to participate) were all Excessively weak save for pikkon. that being said even the plot device characters and a million year+ worth of characters from all over the universe to train there and most of them did not even make it to the tournament and still trained on that planet which would undoubtably lead me to believe that the gravity is well below 100x gravity.
 
~once again my numbers are complete speculation based on the power levels they used in the beginning of DBZ, Frieza saga's proportional strength augmentation, power augmentation of vegeta (8-10 times stronger after each heal) Frieza's strength (form 1 was 1 million) and the assumption that transformations(frieza form 2 and 3+50% and 100% power of the last form) and SSJs increase their powers exponentially (orally said in anime) that being said, feel free to bring your own power level interpretations. 
 
on an interesting storyline related note, seems that the whole healing=8x powerup was drastically lowered post frieza saga (save specifically for the cell fight)
Avatar image for mortein
Mortein

8328

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#45  Edited By Mortein
@drkcloud said:

" @Mortein said:

"  @drkcloud:

 once again his weight is complete speculation, first of all you do NOT know if his weight becomes proportional, you've COMPLETELY ignored my arguements earlier, ASIDE from that and i'm saying this purely just for aesthetic reasons, you do NOT know if his weight is shifted proportionally to the way you've measured it, all of it is SPECULATION.

Why wouldn't it became propositional? I have proven his weight increased, and it would be logical that it increased proportionally. Besides even the floor under him started crushing once he shift his size for second time
No Caption Provided

 

I accept the fact that dragonball characters dont use their full power full time HOWEVER Battle strength is NOT proportional to Actual strength in dbz, to prove it lets use some of that Battle strength->actual strength proportional math you guys love so much.
IN the world tournament saga, goku wasn't able to lift 20 tons until he became Super Saiyan. now this is goku who trained for SEVEN years since cell, so im using a base number of 7 (seeing as how much people powered up people in DBZ could've gotten during that time, i'm HIGHLY underating it as 7 instead of a crazy number like 20-30 since goku was able to level up to both SSJ2 and SSJ3 during that time which infact could've made him 100x stronger)  now at CELL, he trained for One year under not only 10x gravity but INTENSE temperature changes both hot and cold, i'm giving that a base number of 3, now once again im underating the amount they could've grown since gohan was able to access SSJ2 from SSJ1.

I assume you are talking about when he struggled with 10T (or maybe even 40T) on each limb.
I dont except that feat because
  We do not know the gravity of a planet goku was on. Since Goku used that planet for training it is logical to assume how that planet had gravity much bigger than earth. Of course, that would be speculation, but even bigger speculation would be to say how some random unknown planet in some other dimension has the same gravity as earth.  
 
 Goku obviously was powered down when he struggled with 40 T. DBZ characters are always powered down, except during intensive fights. We do not know what gokus power level was, but it probably was around 5000(speculation). After he powered up, moving with 40T in super speed, was peace of cake, to easy, so he obviously powered up to much.    
   
So since we do not know the gravity of a planet, nor do we know how much powered down goku was, that feat tell us nothing more than that goku at power level 15 000 000+ , on a planet with unknown gravity can easily move in super speed with 10T (or maybe even 40T) on each limb, so basically that feat tells us nothing.  
 
No Caption Provided

 
 
No Caption Provided

No Caption Provided
 
 
No Caption Provided
"
regarding the planet's gravity, while i also believe there must've been a higher gravity then earth's it was never mentioned thereafter, so all im going by is the number which they gave out which was 1 ton, 10 ton, etc. even if say it weighed about 100 tons,1000tons, 10000 tons, or even 100000 tons, goku was hypothetically 21000 times stronger then he was in the beginning of DBZ (which was STILL slightly stronger then DB goku) and considering how Powerlevels supposedly is proportional to actual strength hes suppose to be 21000 times stronger. (1000x gravity which would make the weights 100000 (10 tons)tons would still give goku a 5 ton strength level at best and that is assuming the ABSOLUTE best for goku considering that the planet would NO WAY be 1000x gravity or even 100x gravity since all the fighters in the afterworld tournament (the strongest contenders were picked to participate) were all Excessively weak save for pikkon. that being said even the plot device characters and a million year+ worth of characters from all over the universe to train there and most of them did not even make it to the tournament and still trained on that planet which would undoubtably lead me to believe that the gravity is well below 100x gravity. ~once again my numbers are complete speculation based on the power levels they used in the beginning of DBZ, Frieza saga's proportional strength augmentation, power augmentation of vegeta (8-10 times stronger after each heal) Frieza's strength (form 1 was 1 million) and the assumption that transformations(frieza form 2 and 3+50% and 100% power of the last form) and SSJs increase their powers exponentially (orally said in anime) that being said, feel free to bring your own power level interpretations.   on an interesting storyline related note, seems that the whole healing=8x powerup was drastically lowered post frieza saga (save specifically for the cell fight) "
All that feat is telling us is that goku on a planet with unknown gravity, while being powered down to unknown level, struggled with 40 T. Then he powered up, still not to his full power, and easily moved in super speed.
No Caption Provided
So unless you have a way to tell me what was the gravity of a planet, and how much powered down goku was, this feat is useless.
 All the fighters in the afterworld tournament including Pikkon were fillers. And Kais are well adopted to living in high gravity. 
So it is possible that the gravity is bigger then 100x.
Avatar image for just_because
Just_Because

242

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#46  Edited By Just_Because

   
Powers according to his marvelwiki page
Cage is superhumanly strong, able to lift/press approximately 25 tons and punch through barriers as thick as four-inch steel plate. His skin is steel-hard and his muscles and bone tissue super-dense; he can withstand conventional handgun fire at a range of four feet and cannot be cut by the sharpest of blades, although in the event of required surgery his skin can be lacerated by an overpowered medical laser. He can withstand up to one-ton impacts or blasts of 150 pounds of TNT without serious injury, and is impervious to temperature extremes and electrical shocks. His recovery time from injury or trauma is usually one-third that of an ordinary human.  
 
 

 
 



 
 



 
 


 
 


 
 


 
 




 
 


 
 Goku is only annoyed by bullets to the face. And walks away with just a lump after an axe is broken over his head. And he can survive nuclear like explosions that takes out cities with barely a scratch.
 
 
Abilities
Cage is a self-taught hand-to-hand combatant with years of street fighting experience; he is also a superb athlete despite his great height and weight.

 

 

goku is able to dodge bullets from automatic machine guns as a kid and was trained by some of the worlds greatest martial artist. Mr popo one of the people who trained him was faster than lightning and in turn taught goku to move faster than lightning.

 

 

i knew coming here that people would under estimate goku and all dbz charecters for that matter. But i didnt think they would underestimate them this much     
 
Goku would destroy cage ki blast or no ki blast


Avatar image for brolyjuggy
BROLYJUGGY

68

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#47  Edited By BROLYJUGGY
@drkcloud:
IN DBZ HE CAN LIFT WELL OVER 100 TONS
Avatar image for drkcloud
drkcloud

319

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#48  Edited By drkcloud
@Just_Because: did you read that he can't use his speed? speed is a non-factor in this arguement besides goku was hurt by bullets, that energy blast was not nuclear bomb-like that only destroyed the arena and the immediate area.....the tournament was held on a tiny island.  once again Ki blast and speed is a non-factor in this arguement
 
@BROLYJUGGY:
IS DAT WITH SARCASM OR NO!?
Avatar image for just_because
Just_Because

242

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#49  Edited By Just_Because
@drkcloud: 
 
i did not read that actually. 
 
But goku still wins, so.... 
 
Goku can generate more than a ton of pressure, which is how much it takes to hurt luke (so i've heard) Goku too has been shot and stabbed at and have it not affect him. But luke cant take a nuke like explosion dead center like goku could. Goku would destroy luke with his martil arts. So goku wins
Avatar image for drkcloud
drkcloud

319

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#50  Edited By drkcloud
@Just_Because:  but that wasn't a nuke like explosion, if it was puar, bulma and all the other character wouldn't survive, atleast not then=/ and your assuming that luke knows only how to swing his arm -_-  trust me im a DBZ fan all my life but DB goku just doesn't stand a chance. 
 
@Mortein:
the Kai's planet was 10x gravity, and he commented how it was the same as planet vegeta, and yet he was WEAKER then the saiyans, since there is a HUGE correlation with training/living in a high gravity environment and being EXTREMELY strong (goku-a weekish ? in a 10-100x gravity) we can easily assume that it can not possibly be 100x gravity, most likely 10-20x gravity. Considering that north kai didn't mention anything about the strain or anything i believe the afterworld planet's gravity is a non-issue and possibly the same as the kai planet's gravity. once again if you wanna use a power comparison between then and DB use my formula (tweak it up if you feel like it as long as it makes sense)