Cell saga Goku is in character and has no knowledge
Team are bloodlusted with FULL knowledge
No destroying the planet
Cell saga Goku is in character and has no knowledge
Team are bloodlusted with FULL knowledge
No destroying the planet
@princearagorn1 What are your thoughts on this? Cell saga Goku might be a bit too much for them I reckon even in character.
I don't see them going past frieza saga yet.
Bambina and 4HK have more than enough physical power to hurt Goku, and Bambina should be at least relativistic in speed (dodging Coco's attack). Dragonball characters have always been much worse at taking physical attacks than energy blasts, so Bambina could blitz and end it with a punch. Coco's near-lightspeed poison attack would be fatal as well.
Team's Physical Power could put goku down (from what I heard their Physical Strikes are near planetary level is this right?) My guess is that goku's speed and DC could snag goku the win. I could see goku using IT and kamehameha combo on Bambina to take him out and then using his speed to take the other 4. Do the 4HK have any hax that could kill goku?
Bambina and 4HK have more than enough physical power to hurt Goku, and Bambina should be at least relativistic in speed (dodging Coco's attack). Dragonball characters have always been much worse at taking physical attacks than energy blasts, so Bambina could blitz and end it with a punch. Coco's near-lightspeed poison attack would be fatal as well.
Namek saga Goku was FTL, and Kid Goku has 2 FTL feats that I can remember. He's way too fast or the team.
Goku against ginyu wrecked them in 1 hit, it would be no different then Goku one-shot the ginyu force who are all planet + beings. 4HK are arguably planet level, Bambina is higher
Bambina and 4HK have more than enough physical power to hurt Goku, and Bambina should be at least relativistic in speed (dodging Coco's attack). Dragonball characters have always been much worse at taking physical attacks than energy blasts, so Bambina could blitz and end it with a punch. Coco's near-lightspeed poison attack would be fatal as well.
Namek saga Goku was FTL, and Kid Goku has 2 FTL feats that I can remember. He's way too fast or the team.
No visual FTL feat for dbz has ever been proven, or hasnt been outright contracted by numerous other moments in dbz, the superman vs bambina thread has quite a few feats going in his favor, at the very least he'd give superman moderate trouble as he is now. And this even is without the 4 kings backing him.
@blackkaizer: There is faster then lightning from Popo and then there is kaioken which proves the user speed and power doubles as they increase in power and more. They shouldn't be FTL at namek saga though. Frieza saga they hit FTL.
Goku.
1. Proof general blacks beam was ftl? There dodged by protagonist on a regular basis in friction.
2. Goku had prior knowledge of solar flare and raced for roshis glasses as soon as tien closed his eyes, also freiza nor imperfect cell could dodge it despite being leagues stronger.
3. Burter.....are you serious?
Pretty sure that scan is unofficial as they misspell Burter
1. Street levelers dodge lasers like nothing. Even natsu did.
2. That's not ftl, that's faster than eye can see.
lol, kid goku being near light speed would mean he can cross snake way in three seconds.
3. Fan translation, even misspelled burter. He doesn't say anything about lightspeed..
@blackkaizer: Lasers are light speed. It was halfway towards Goku, while he was on his head, and he went all the way to the top of a building before it hit.
Tien didn't even close his eyes. I will come back to this later, I don't feel like arguing right now. Until then I guess you just go with what you say.
Yes, Burter, seriously.
@princearagorn1: @jgames: Burter's name isn't misspelled...
@princearagorn1: Actually no, you are talking about travel speed, Roshi can run a 100 m in 5 seconds, yet catch 9 machine gun bullet point blank and have full fight under 1 second. Combat speed in DBZ is different then travel speed.
Bambina and 4HK have more than enough physical power to hurt Goku, and Bambina should be at least relativistic in speed (dodging Coco's attack). Dragonball characters have always been much worse at taking physical attacks than energy blasts, so Bambina could blitz and end it with a punch. Coco's near-lightspeed poison attack would be fatal as well.
Namek saga Goku was FTL, and Kid Goku has 2 FTL feats that I can remember. He's way too fast or the team.
No visual FTL feat for dbz has ever been proven, or hasnt been outright contracted by numerous other moments in dbz, the superman vs bambina thread has quite a few feats going in his favor, at the very least he'd give superman moderate trouble as he is now. And this even is without the 4 kings backing him.
Namek Saga Goku and Frieza were fighting too fast for King Kai to keep track. The same King Kai who has tracked FTL objects with ease, such as: Kami's ship, Saiyan ships, Beerus and Whis crossing the galaxy, Buu rampaging across the universe, ect.
MFTL combat speed has been one of Goku's stats for a long time.
@princearagorn1: Actually no, you are talking about travel speed, Roshi can run a 100 m in 5 seconds, yet catch 9 machine gun bullet point blank and have full fight under 1 second. Combat speed in DBZ is different then travel speed.
both the arguments require goku to moves ftl in those scans.. which he can't.
@etheral_dreams: That's anime bro, in anime it's not even debatable if they move FTL or not, they have been doing it since early sagas
@princearagorn1: In travel he doesn't move FTL, in combat he does.
Namek saga Goku was FTL, and Kid Goku has 2 FTL feats that I can remember. He's way too fast or the team.
No visual FTL feat for dbz has ever been proven, or hasnt been outright contracted by numerous other moments in dbz, the superman vs bambina thread has quite a few feats going in his favor, at the very least he'd give superman moderate trouble as he is now. And this even is without the 4 kings backing him.
Namek Saga Goku and Frieza were fighting too fast for King Kai to keep track. The same King Kai who has tracked Beerus and Whis crossing the galaxy
You killed your own argument there, lol.
Namek saga goku isn't faster than beerus/whis. Keeping track of high speed objects flying in straight line isn't even a feat.
@princearagorn1: In travel he doesn't move FTL, in combat he does.
In neither, actually.
@etheral_dreams: Roshi wasnt tracking gokus ship but goku himself....who was chilling in the spacecraft not moving ftl, or zigzagging every which way in a non linear line forcing king kai to continuously get a lock on, same thing applies to your other examples.
@blackkaizer: Lasers are light speed. It was halfway towards Goku, while he was on his head, and he went all the way to the top of a building before it hit.
Tien didn't even close his eyes. I will come back to this later, I don't feel like arguing right now. Until then I guess you just go with what you say.
Yes, Burter, seriously.
1. In real life, yes, but in friction unless properly defined, their no different from the literally countless thousands of other generic lasers fired on a regular basis.
2. The solar flare user HAS to close their eyes for using the move or their blind themselves as well.
3. Hyperbole statements are spammed constantly in dbz, vegeta in particularly being especially guilty of this
Guys this is canon Goku, not anime Goku
@princearagorn1: Actually no they are FTL in combat since Frieza saga, Goku dodged planet splitter from Frieza which cut through the planet in 1 box scene, easily a 5 digit feat, base to SSj is 50x, kaioken proves speed and everything increase when power level increases. Hell Goku training on Korin tower got a 7 times increase in speed alone. So no they are FTL, it's just common sense really, with the difference in levels and such will put them there.
And also why are you using anime in comparison to Beerus and Whis which are canon ? in anime, SSj goku > Mystic Gohan, i don't think I need to tell you why it's non-canon to begin with.
Guys this is canon Goku, not anime Goku
@princearagorn1: Actually no they are FTL in combat since Frieza saga, Goku dodged planet splitter from Frieza which cut through the planet in 1 box scene, easily a 5 digit feat, base to SSj is 50x, kaioken proves speed and everything increase when power level increases. Hell Goku training on Korin tower got a 7 times increase in speed alone. So no they are FTL, it's just common sense really, with the difference in levels and such will put them there.
And also why are you using anime in comparison to Beerus and Whis which are canon ? in anime, SSj goku > Mystic Gohan, i don't think I need to tell you why it's non-canon to begin with.
Since when. Bc the movies aside from Battle of God and revival of F, are non cannon to the anime. I know that Anime DBZ has better feats, but what feat does SSJ goku has that put him above Mystic Gohan.
Guys this is canon Goku, not anime Goku
@princearagorn1: Actually no they are FTL in combat since Frieza saga, Goku dodged planet splitter from Frieza which cut through the planet in 1 box scene, easily a 5 digit feat, base to SSj is 50x, kaioken proves speed and everything increase when power level increases. Hell Goku training on Korin tower got a 7 times increase in speed alone. So no they are FTL, it's just common sense really, with the difference in levels and such will put them there.
1. These are fan calcs, not official numbers.
2. If they were ftl in frieza saga, they'd be very much past light speed in the latter sagas, there's no indication of that anywhere. There are several feats throughout the manga that put them relativistic, but never anything putting them conclusively at or past light speed.
nd also why are you using anime in comparison to Beerus and Whis which are canon ? in anime, SSj goku > Mystic Gohan, i don't think I need to tell you why it's non-canon to begin with.
huh? I didn't use anime.
@jgames: Anime is non-canon, even garlic jr appeared in anime and he is a movie character. Battle of Gods is canon along with revival of F
Toriyama saying he wrote it as though he was continuing the manga:
Toriyama interview wrote:
I tried thinking up an original story, imagining it as though [the manga’s] serialization had continued. What’s more, the God of Destruction Birus, who I drew the design for myself (something I don’t usually do), is a terrifying opponent so overwhelmingly strong that he surpasses the dimension of the previous enemies. But it’s my trademark to not let things get too dark. At the very least, I’m satisfied that it’s been finished up as a very piece of work.
Toriyama inputting BoG into Dragon Ball’s canon history:
Toriyama interview wrote:
Q: Why is Kai’s planet so small?
A: The fact is, it was destroyed by the God of Destruction!!
It used to be so big that its diameter was about 100 times that of Kai’s current planet. Apart from the size it was completely the same as it is now, with nothing but grassy fields and roads. Kai-sama enjoyed his hobby, driving, but then one day Birusu, the God of Destruction, stopped by and they played a video game together (it was a car racing one). Birusu lost, and so the planet was destroyed by the peeved God of Destruction. Kai then took a large leftover fragment, whittled it down to a sphere, and built a road on it so that he could have fun driving there. This became Kais current planet.
Toriyama saying he wrote the script himself:
Toriyama Interview wrote:
Q: I heard that this is the first time you’ve been deeply involved with the script of a movie; please tell us the reason.
A: The catalyst was that, first of all, when the script originally came to me, there was a lot of the sort of dialogue that only the creator would know, so I thought, “that bothers me”, and then this and that also started to get on my mind, and so rather than telling them to revise each individual thing, I thought it might be faster if I just wrote the script myself.
Battle of Gods references Tarble
battle of gods synopsis wrote:
They struggle to think up where they can find another pure-hearted Saiyan, and Bulma remembers that Vegeta has a straight-laced younger brother living off on some distant planet. Vegeta says he does not really know where that planet is, and it is too far away at any rate.
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/movie/battle-of-gods/synopsis/
in anime, SSj goku > Mystic Gohan, when they fought in buu mind. It's even shown SSj3 Goku in anime putting a better fight against Buutenks then Gohan, not to mention Kid Buu > Gohan-buu in anime. Anime doesn't relate to BOG or ROF
Guys this is canon Goku, not anime Goku
Actually no they are FTL in combat since Frieza saga, Goku dodged planet splitter from Frieza which cut through the planet in 1 box scene, easily a 5 digit feat, base to SSj is 50x, kaioken proves speed and everything increase when power level increases. Hell Goku training on Korin tower got a 7 times increase in speed alone. So no they are FTL, it's just common sense really, with the difference in levels and such will put them there.
And also why are you using anime in comparison to Beerus and Whis which are canon ? in anime, SSj goku > Mystic Gohan, i don't think I need to tell you why it's non-canon to begin with.
Since when. Bc the movies aside from Battle of God and revival of F, are non cannon to the anime. I know that Anime DBZ has better feats, but what feat does SSJ goku has that put him above Mystic Gohan.
You obviously missed the part where I said aside from. I know the two movies are cannon. Also Goku still fought Buu in the manga, aside from Buutenks , but running away is not that much better. Also Kid Buu is still weaker than Buu-han considering he was threatening to destroy the universe......oh wait yeah that is inconsistent. d
Guys this is canon Goku, not anime Goku
@princearagorn1: Actually no they are FTL in combat since Frieza saga, Goku dodged planet splitter from Frieza which cut through the planet in 1 box scene, easily a 5 digit feat, base to SSj is 50x, kaioken proves speed and everything increase when power level increases. Hell Goku training on Korin tower got a 7 times increase in speed alone. So no they are FTL, it's just common sense really, with the difference in levels and such will put them there.
1. These are fan calcs, not official numbers.
2. If they were ftl in frieza saga, they'd be very much past light speed in the latter sagas, there's no indication of that anywhere. There are several feats throughout the manga that put them relativistic, but never anything putting them conclusively at or past light speed.
nd also why are you using anime in comparison to Beerus and Whis which are canon ? in anime, SSj goku > Mystic Gohan, i don't think I need to tell you why it's non-canon to begin with.
huh? I didn't use anime.
It's calculation on speed to determine how fast is Goku. Since when did DBZ give offical numbers, they where Faster then Lightning in DB, and blitzed that in 23rd arc. You saying that the difference between Roshi and 23rd Goku > 23rd Goku and Frieza ?
They are FTL and more in later sagas so what's you're point ? Gotenks blitzes his own light 9 times flying around the planet since Ki is light also, Yakon proves this when he says he eats light energy, and he was flying 2 times over the planet size. That's travel also not combat. Cell comparing his speed to Goku instant transmission, Piccolo blast to the moon, Piccolo says blast does have speed when Krillin released his blast on Saibaman. Krillin and Gohan moving as fast as there blast against Guldo. So on and so fourth
Oh yeah kaioken lol, even if I went by Mach 34 Goku on snake way, thanks to kaioken and guides and Goku statements and Vegeta statement proving kaioken doubles the users DC, defence, and speed etc when you increase levels. Goku would still be LS+ b the end of Frieza saga
@jgames: Nah, even in movies they use the logic, in movie 13. And no Gohan-buu threatening to destroy the universe is not inconsistent, it's even approved in guides that we going to do it. So I don't know why it would be inconsistent, any ways I will deal with that universal stuff later.
@jgames: Nah, even in movies they use the logic, in movie 13. And no Gohan-buu threatening to destroy the universe is not inconsistent, it's even approved in guides that we going to do it. So I don't know why it would be inconsistent, any ways I will deal with that universal stuff later.
The movies are non-cannon to the anime, with the exception being Garlic, Trunk history time line, and Bardocks. While the anime filler scene are non-cannon to the manga. While the new Movies are cannon to the Manga and the Anime, and Dragon Ball GT never exist. Also good luck on proving Buu-han being universe level in the manga.
Also we sort of went off-topic XD.
It's calculation on speed to determine how fast is Goku.
...Yep. Like the calculations saying ichigo is a planet buster and what not.
Since when did DBZ give offical numbers,
Since... always? Where do you think the '1 million km' '2200 km' '20 minutes' or the infamous '40 tons' come from?
they where Faster then Lightning in DB, and blitzed that in 23rd arc. You saying that the difference between Roshi and 23rd Goku > 23rd Goku and Frieza ?
Lightening in fiction can be peak human level in speed (firebenders, for example), so 'faster than lightening' by terms doesn't help much.
They are FTL and more in later sagas so what's you're point ?
There's nothing even suggesting that, a lot contradicting it, actually.
Gotenks blitzes his own light 9 times flying around the planet since Ki is light also, Yakon proves this when he says he eats light energy, and he was flying 2 times over the planet size.
I see. Since you're saying ki is light, anyone ever tagged by ki cannot be faster than light.. seems legit.
That's travel also not combat. Cell comparing his speed to Goku instant transmission, Piccolo blast to the moon, Piccolo says blast does have speed when Krillin released his blast on Saibaman. Krillin and Gohan moving as fast as there blast against Guldo. So on and so fourth. Oh yeah kaioken lol, even if I went by Mach 34 Goku on snake way, thanks to kaioken and guides and Goku statements and Vegeta statement proving kaioken doubles the users DC, defence, and speed etc when you increase levels. Goku would still be LS+ b the end of Frieza saga.
lol, you're really going to pretend dragonball is consistent enough for that kind of scaling to work? There are many feats putting them relativistic, but equal number contradicting them. If they were actually ftl as you're saying, there would be something in the manga confirming it.. All the feats you mention can be replicated with relativistic speed.
and there's nothing. To give an example of light speed confirmation:
This is the second time the mold spears are said to move at the speed of light, and considering their attacks easily cover over planetary range during the fight, it's not hyperbole either.
@jgames: No one in the manga is universal.
And the anime is non-canon also, and of course they follow the manga, that's where the story came from lol, they are not following assumptions. You can separate though if you want, having the fillers non-canon and the rest canon. Otherwise it's just going to be non-canon overall.
Gohan-Buu feat was filler also.
@princearagorn1: You misunderstood me; obviously in combat speed he's much slower, but Goku's combat speed is MFTL on account of KK's inability to keep track of them, whereas he has effortlessly perceived MFTL objects before.
@princearagorn1: You misunderstood me; obviously in combat speed he's much slower, but Goku's combat speed is MFTL on account of KK's inability to keep track of them, whereas he has effortlessly perceived MFTL objects before.
What is the fastest fight king kai has kept track of?
@princearagorn1: You misunderstood me; obviously in combat speed he's much slower, but Goku's combat speed is MFTL on account of KK's inability to keep track of them, whereas he has effortlessly perceived MFTL objects before.
What is the fastest fight king kai has kept track of?
Probably Vegeta vs Frieza/
@princearagorn1: You misunderstood me; obviously in combat speed he's much slower, but Goku's combat speed is MFTL on account of KK's inability to keep track of them, whereas he has effortlessly perceived MFTL objects before.
What is the fastest fight king kai has kept track of?
Probably Vegeta vs Frieza/
That's not exactly ftl... You can argue 'these guys were fighting at ls, king kai followed that but he couldn't follow goku/frieza'. But arguing that he followed objects in flight, you're scaling flight speed with combat speed. Basically saying goku/frieza fight faster than whis/bills fly...
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