Well, Goku can go to SSJ4, so they have a chance, and the DBZ fighters are less morally restricted, they also have ridiculously Fast combat Speed and are capable of firing energy beams, they also have a good level of Fighting Skill.
Well, Goku can go to SSJ4, so they have a chance, and the DBZ fighters are less morally restricted, they also have ridiculously Fast combat Speed and are capable of firing energy beams, they also have a good level of Fighting Skill.
SSJ4 seemed to weak to me. Not sure why. Well, GT is garbage. Only like Super 17.
@comicdude23: I do see your point. They have such spiky hair and they scream for thirty minutes till they fight. Superman doesn't scream at all. I think the fanboy in me died today. But realistically, both Supermen flash-fry both Super-Saiyans and here is why: In the time I've watched Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball GT I noticed Goku has a weakness, which should be Vegeta's weakness as well. It's fire and women. The energy blasts are strong, yes. They can destroy entire planets, but when it comes to planets being destroyed while they're on them they seem to whine about a time limit to the villains just to save themselves. In one episode, Goku (as a child) was having an amazing fight with a guy who had whips for hands. Instead of using his kameawawawwawawaiu wave, he attempted to evade fire blasts till he found a weakness or till the show ended. The fire hit his buttocks and he ran around the fortress in pain. Why does fire hurt his buttocks so much whereas an energy ball that busts planets can be knocked out of the way? I don't understand. Bulma, Goku's wife (Helga or something) and other female characters slapped Goku and Vegeta causing serious pain. I can only assume they just have a problem with being corrected or that they're really shy. In turn, their shyness causes them to avoid screaming for thirty minutes. They don't even talk. They eat noodles for the next round.
@doomsummers: Using comic book logic, 18 isn't on level with Freiza due to feats. Kal L can easily defeat this team on his own. PL doesn't work in comic book battles because it could be multiplication or even addition. We don't know. So we use feats, not pls.
Even the biggest Dragonball homers aren't gonna say Goku and Vegeta wins.
This isn't a fair fight, why don't you create a thread with stronger Dragonball characters, you know there's quite a few that would one-shot Goku and Vegeta.
@doomsummers: LOL. Kal-L is way over 18's level, well since Vegeta can only go SS1 he's worthless, either Superman or Kal-L can defeat Goku in a fight without many problems.
@doomsummers: LOL. Kal-L is way over 18's level, well since Vegeta can only go SS1 he's worthless, either Superman or Kal-L can defeat Goku in a fight without many problems.
you are correct this is the same person who said dante can beat silver surfer. ignore him he probably thinks goku can beat galactus.kal-l destroys 18 easy.
@OmegaDynasty: Kal isn't on the same level as Android 18
yes you are right,he is on a league above dbz/GT 1.kal-l almost killed current superman with 3 punches in their real fight from infinite crisis(not the one from Adventures of Superman which people use and think that kal-l is = with current superman and is not even canon to their real fight in the IC) 2.doomsday made superman bleed with 1 punch and when he tryed to hit kal-l he broke his claws and a page later kal-l KO'ed him with 1 punch
@Susanoo: I'll be honest, there was a time where I would of said Superman or Kal El would solo, and I still believe that at least due to feats. But ultimately they're just too different to compare fairly.
@Susanoo: I'll be honest, there was a time where I would of said Superman or Kal El would solo, and I still believe that at least due to feats. But ultimately they're just too different to compare fairly.
I agree. One way to debate this out, is completely get rid of the power levels when debating DBZ against Comics or anything else and only use feats. Because with PL logic, they constantly ASSUME what a character is potentially capable of destroying and no feats to back it up. Broly destroyed a majority of one galaxy (This is still debatable), Cell claimed to have been able to destroy a solar system, and Frieza was easily planet busting level. Frieza, imo, showed the best things in terms of fighting, superhuman abilties, and feats to actually back himself up. Someone like SS3 Goku, is debated by using PL logic because he has not shown to be able to destroy even one planet (He SHOULD as a matter of fact) and they come up with crazy answers such as busting several galaxies. They get this through messed up math, conjecture, and assumptions while affected by fanboism.
Also, have they ever tried using something else other than multiplication to rank this power scaling thing? No. Best thing to do, in this case, is to debate on feats and showings.
Now for a more reasonable look at this battle. I'll go back to Goku on Nameke, pre Super saiyin. Lets look at Combat Speed, In a battle vs Burter and Jeice (If we are using the animated versions.) Goku was fired upon by these two, and it seemed the blast went strait through his body. He looked to be a solid figure, not becoming intangible. Goku had actually moved so fast he looked to have stanted still. Thats his speed pre SS.
Strength: Goku's strength isn't just hard punches, it's punches back by speed, enhanced by Ki, which causes them to be alot harder than his strength alone would allow. Goku and Frieza were knocking each other for miles through mountains, and even hitting the Sea so hard, with such force that the ground itself. was unearth, causing massive craters, and crevices throughout the ocean itself.
Durability, well, thats a tough one, but the same rules that allow Wonder Woman, to take punches from Superman, yet, still have to block bullets and shapr projectiles, applies to Goku, being able to take near planet busters to the face unharmed, and crach through mountains, yet still be a bit subceptable to Lava, and some fire. SS4 Goku would not get hurt by it, being that he was able to take blast from Nova Shenron, and was able to even get close to him, while other things tend to melt away. Also, we can't forget that once he's hit with an attack in this form, it won't work on him again, kinda like Doomsdays regen.
Now lets look at this. In most Superman fights, he throws very powerful punches, and the casual damage isn't always the same levels as some DBZ fights. Or in many ways they seem to be on the ame level, so I guess we hve to look at and try to figure out what type of force, and energy it would take to cause the massive quakes, and shock waves, that happen in both DBZ and Superman fights.
Also, the fact that Superman has been hurt by things alot weaker than City busting Ki blast before, actually gives Goku and Vegeta a good chance here.
In a strait up fight, technique can easily beat a stronger opponent.
Realistically the fight could go either way. All the strength feats in the world means nothing, unless it was a feat in battle.
Niether party can take too many blows from the other. The Saiyins can't take toomany punches, while the Supermen can take too many Ki blast, eventually they would take their toll on them.
@doomsummers: Using comic book logic, 18 isn't on level with Freiza due to feats. Kal L can easily defeat this team on his own. PL doesn't work in comic book battles because it could be multiplication or even addition. We don't know. So we use feats, not pls.
using your logic superman 1 million isnt on par with current superman do to feats. Do to your logic super saiyan 3 goku isnt on base form frieza level do to feats. Knowing how you are and for the sake of keeping comic vs manga threads i was going to ignore you..but you seem to think you actually make sense in the things you say...and i just have t go...lol. We do know...we know trunks killed frieza like he as a common thug..and then got beat down by 17 and 18 like he was a red headed stepchild. Sayinf PL dont work is comics is also laughable. What is there not to get? We in fact do know because they say it. Duh
@dccomicsrule2011 said:
@TheMightyAvenger said:
@doomsummers: LOL. Kal-L is way over 18's level, well since Vegeta can only go SS1 he's worthless, either Superman or Kal-L can defeat Goku in a fight without many problems.
you are correct this is the same person who said dante can beat silver surfer. ignore him he probably thinks goku can beat galactus.kal-l destroys 18 easy.
This coming from the guy who thinks dante is as strong as thor and superman.
There isn't anything to say about GT that hasn't been said a million times already. People get hung up on all the low showings...which are plenty..and ignore the high showings.....me i dont even acknowledge ssj4 goku.... sadly base form goku who's power was diminished or super saiyan 1 goku who's power was diminished have better feats. Feats that are damn impressive.
Punching 17 to the other side of the planet
Gallery
Getting punched kicked by 17 into space and being blasted back to earth and then stand up and smile
Gallery
Goku catching a drill in base form/getting smashed around a metal city/catching wind that destroyed a metal forest all without getting hurt.....as opposed to ssj4 goku being hurt from clocks
ssj4 looked down right pathetic compared to even gokus base form
There isn't anything to say about GT that hasn't been said a million times already. People get hung up on all the low showings...which are plenty..and ignore the high showings.....me i dont even acknowledge ssj4 goku.... sadly base form goku who's power was diminished or super saiyan 1 goku who's power was diminished have better feats. Feats that are damn impressive.
Punching 17 to the other side of the planet
Gallery
Getting punched kicked by 17 into space and being blasted back to earth and then stand up and smile
Gallery
Goku catching a drill in base form/getting smashed around a metal city/catching wind that destroyed a metal forest all without getting hurt.....as opposed to ssj4 goku being hurt from clocks
ssj4 looked down right pathetic compared to even gokus base form
@SilverGalford: the worst part is he was in base form and had already caught the building and struggled to hold it....turned ssj4 and still struggled......super saiyan 1 makes you 50 times stronger..GT was just crap
@doomsummers: Using comic book logic, 18 isn't on level with Freiza due to feats. Kal L can easily defeat this team on his own. PL doesn't work in comic book battles because it could be multiplication or even addition. We don't know. So we use feats, not pls.
using your logic superman 1 million isnt on par with current superman do to feats. Do to your logic super saiyan 3 goku isnt on base form frieza level do to feats. Knowing how you are and for the sake of keeping comic vs manga threads i was going to ignore you..but you seem to think you actually make sense in the things you say...and i just have t go...lol. We do know...we know trunks killed frieza like he as a common thug..and then got beat down by 17 and 18 like he was a red headed stepchild. Sayinf PL dont work is comics is also laughable. What is there not to get? We in fact do know because they say it. Duh
@dccomicsrule2011 said:
@TheMightyAvenger said:
@doomsummers: LOL. Kal-L is way over 18's level, well since Vegeta can only go SS1 he's worthless, either Superman or Kal-L can defeat Goku in a fight without many problems.
you are correct this is the same person who said dante can beat silver surfer. ignore him he probably thinks goku can beat galactus.kal-l destroys 18 easy.
This coming from the guy who thinks dante is as strong as thor and superman.
Using your logic, your only making assumptions of Goku and ect powers.
@Susanoo: blah blah blah is all i ever hear from you. I'm not making assumptions..im not being retarded. If you see android 18 break a super saiyans arm...logic dictates shes stronger than frieza....but of course not in your world thats just an assumption. Again using your logic....Superman 1 million isnt stronger than current superman....because he has no on panel feats. Is that all you're going to keep doing in dbz threads...babble on about people assuming that android 18 and cell and etc etc are stronger than frieza? If so spare everyone and just dont enter dbz threads. I understand that common sense is a rare commodity now a days. I'm sorry you dont have the common sense to realize that if someones beating goku up that means they're stronger than the last person he made look like a chump. just because YOU don't know anything about PL and how they work doesn't mean they need to be excluded.
ssj4 looked down right pathetic compared to even gokus base form
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