Goku (Super Saiyan 4 Vs Goku (Super Saiyan God)

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EffuIgence

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#51  Edited By EffuIgence

Good reasoning.

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Xeno_Seeker

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i'm pretty knowledgeable whenever it comes to dbz. but i've never once heard of super saiyan god..

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houseshm

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@xeno_seeker: dbz battle of gods movie. Goku has a new transformation called super saiyan god. Its been out for a while now. go check it out.

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Xeno_Seeker

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i thought the movies weren't even canon lol...

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houseshm

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@xeno_seeker: this one is. Toriyama placed it after dragonball z and made it canon so gt is not canon like people are saying. "It is the first film in the series to be considered an official part of the Dragon Ball storyline, being set between chapters 517 and 518 of the original manga during the ten year time skip, with original creator Akira Toriyama deeply involved."

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Delek_Reap

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People are forgetting that Base GT Goku >>>>>>>> SSJ3 DBZ Goku, as he can hold his own against Uub, who is Kid Buu reincarnated.

Add onto that SSJ4.

SSJ4 Goku with GT power levels stomps, hard, against SSJ God Goku with DBZ power levels.

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SupermanBeatGoku

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Goku gets destroyed.

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houseshm

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@delek_reap: goku at the end of dbz was fighting on par with uub in base form. He is just as strong as GT goku base form. Goku in gt became a child and got weaker because he couldnt control his ki in the smaller body. SSG stomps.

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dondave

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SSJGod ftw

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terry2012

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#60  Edited By terry2012
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Delek_Reap

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@houseshm:

The movie takes place before end of Z, thus he isn't at that power level yet.

And SSJ4 is so strong it reverses the Goku being a kid again wish (until he goes back to base), as evidenced by the fact he is no longer a kid while in that state.

And you have nothing supporting SSJGod. Nothing.

SSJ4 still does, and always will stomp.

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The_PAIN

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#62  Edited By The_PAIN

I have not seen BoG yet, any of you guys can direct me to a streaming site?

Thanks

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alcoholbob

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Probably SSJG would win. Shows better feats, also in this continuity power levels are a little different.

In GT SSJ Goku should be about SSJ3 Gotenks level, considering his fight against General Rildo. That means at SSJ3 he's 8x stronger than Gotenks (about 4x stronger than Ultimate Gohan) and about 40x stronger than Ultimate Gohan at SSJ4, since SSJ4 has a 10x modifier. This puts SSJ4 Goku around Super Vegitto levels from Z.

SSJG should be ahead of a Super Vegitto-class character due to the fact its a fusion of all Saiyans instead of just 2. IMO

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Dark Cloud™

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Probably SSJG would win. Shows better feats, also in this continuity power levels are a little different.

In GT SSJ Goku should be about SSJ3 Gotenks level, considering his fight against General Rildo. That means at SSJ3 he's 8x stronger than Gotenks (about 4x stronger than Ultimate Gohan) and about 40x stronger than Ultimate Gohan at SSJ4, since SSJ4 has a 10x modifier. This puts SSJ4 Goku around Super Vegitto levels from Z.

SSJG should be ahead of a Super Vegitto-class character due to the fact its a fusion of all Saiyans instead of just 2. IMO

It's not a fusion. They simply fed Goku their energy. As for the fight. SSJ God wins.

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ghostrider2

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houseshm

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#67  Edited By houseshm

@delek_reap: he actually is at that power level. He fights with uub tens years after majin buu was destroyed. GT just starts off where Z left off. Either way SSG is a god transformation. Its not another level of super saiyan. Its supposed to be a god form probably the most powerful transformation for saiyans. Thats why SSG wins. SSJ4 is strong but he is not a god.

Question: Why did you name the movie Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods?

Akira Toriyama:

Because my idea was that there would be two gods fighting – a god of destruction and a Saiyan god

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TheReptile

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#68  Edited By TheReptile
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Jgames

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Actually it doesn't really matter who is stronger actually, Goku could just absorb SSJ4 goku attacks, and then obliterate him

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Parallax_Hal_Jordan

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@sheenlantern:Just out of curiosity,where is stated the % Bills use against the Z-fighters and SSG Goku?If what you said is true,then SSG stomp SS4 badly...

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Parallax_Hal_Jordan

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TheReptile

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#73  Edited By TheReptile

@jgames: Thats true but what would you put SSJ4 Ki Output at?

Mutli-Planet+ level

Multli-Solar System level?

SSJ4 could maybe be a Galaxy buster at max but take it with salt.

SSJG is a Gaxaly buster but if SSJ4 is stronger then that then I guess SSJ4 wins. GT Goku blow up a dimension with an attack said to be Gaxaly busting but it only made a small hole.

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ad00

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#74  Edited By ad00

SS4>SSG

SSG god is not strong enough than a SS4 as per what attack they showed in the movie

SSG graphic are way better than GT no doubt

See one attact of a SSG against bill: http://i.imgur.com/06CLVZz.png if SS4 does the entire planet shakes with that attack

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ad00

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#75  Edited By ad00

@effuigence: Like I said, the Bills the Z Fighters fought and the one SSG Goku fought was completely different in power.

If Bills was at his maximum when he effortlessly curbstomped the Z Fighters, then I might have agreed with you, but he wasn't, he was at a fraction of a fraction of what he was when he fought Goku.

If we go by feats, 1% Bills should be near enough a match for SS4 Goku, if not stronger.

ss2 vegeta at the gt ending was stronger than ss3 goku at the dbz ending

did you remember when vegeta ss2 fought omega shenron at the gt ending if you saw omega shenron had beat vegeta easily with not even using 1% of his power

Omega Shenron>SS4>SSG

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reikai

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After Birus and Whis left Earth, Whis commented that Birus looked like he had a bit of trouble, to which Birus states he used 70% of his strength to beat Goku, and Whis states it'd been a long time since Birus had been that serious.

That could very much mean he gradually upped himself during the fight to test Goku's limits as a SSG. When Goku was doing well, he'd up himself a bit to see if Goku could keep up. Birus also states that even when the time limit on SSG was up, Goku did not immediately lose all of his strength as a SSG, instead it was gradually diminishing, unlike other SSJ forms where you immediately lose those benefits upon reverting.

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Pope052

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SSJ4 Goku in a murder-stomp.

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redbird3rdboywonder

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Don't know why this was bumped but SSG Goku wins in a slaughter stomp...though I have yet to see it, can anyone tell me if it's been dubbed over and licensed yet?

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Iragexcudder

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#79  Edited By Iragexcudder

DBZ forums are so cockamamie. I love DBZ but this just can't be debated properly

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reikai

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#80  Edited By reikai

@redbird3rdboywonder: No it hasn't and it may never be unless Funimation's American investors believe they'll make money off it. They didn't make squat off DBZ Kai because it was just the same story, only shorter with redone voiceovers. And they weren't gonna do the Buu Saga, but then did after several years of keeping it on the back burner, and just went straight to BlueRay/DVD instead of airing it on TV in order to make people buy it.

We're still missing several DBZ features prior to "Battle of Gods", such as "Episode of Bardock" and that other short film involving Vegeta's younger brother, Tarble. Neither of which we may ever see dubbed. It's also been made a point that if BoG didn't do well or receive enough popularity, then Akira Toriyama wasn't going to continue the series. So right now, everyone is in the dark concerning whether or not we will see further feature films or a new Dragon Ball series to continue this, or if Toriyama has thrown in the towel.

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redbird3rdboywonder

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@reikai said:

@redbird3rdboywonder: No it hasn't and it may never be unless Funimation's American investors believe they'll make money off it. They didn't make squat off DBZ Kai because it was just the same story, only shorter with redone voiceovers. And they weren't gonna do the Buu Saga, but then did after several years of keeping it on the back burner, and just went straight to BlueRay/DVD instead of airing it on TV in order to make people buy it.

We're still missing several DBZ features prior to "Battle of Gods", such as "Episode of Bardock" and that other short film involving Vegeta's younger brother, Tarble. Neither of which we may ever see dubbed. It's also been made a point that if BoG didn't do well or receive enough popularity, then Akira Toriyama wasn't going to continue the series. So right now, everyone is in the dark concerning whether or not we will see further feature films or a new Dragon Ball series to continue this, or if Toriyama has thrown in the towel.

Aaww man, I would love to see it on Toonami this month since they're doing the whole month of movies thing, it would have been a perfect time to release it and another reason Kai didn't do well is because it wasn't on forefront channels, so it didn't receive the proper exposure at all and personally, I have no interest in seeing the movie with Tarble dubbed over at all but would love to see the Bardock movie dubbed over and shown on tv, but the problem is, is that anime isn't really getting the proper tv exposure here in the USA, though that's a different subject entirely. I would love a new DB series but only if Goku weren't in the picture but with Gohan as the lead, or with Future Trunks back in his timeline, maybe after he traveled to Namek to bring Future Gohan back, oh well thanks for the info.

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reikai

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@redbird3rdboywonder: np, and well the thing is a new series would involve events pertaining to those of "Battle of Gods". Vegeta claims he'll go SSG next time and it was let on by Birus that there are 12 Universes and subsequently 12 Gods of Destruction, of which he is one, and that they are in the 7th Universe.

If Toriyama were to do a new series it would begin to focus on a completely new scale of combat. Not only challenging new enemies that'd make Majin Buu look like Winnie the Pooh, but potentially beings from the other Universes, as well as the other Gods of Destruction.

Given the number of the Gods and Universes made me feel as though Toriyama may go with a kind of Zodiac theme for the Destruction Gods. Birus had very catlike tendencies so he may have been a stand in for the Tiger Zodiac. Though he looked more like a hairless cat or even a long-eared Rat.

But either way, depending on what Toriyama decides to do next, if anything, we may have our answers. Though still, if there were to be a new series with new characters, I'd rather not see the old ones in the primary roles since they've all been pretty much side-lined for the better part of the Cell and Buu Sagas and never did much in the films either.

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Dark Cloud™

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Super Saiyan God still wins.

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Pope052

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Dark Cloud™

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#85  Edited By Dark Cloud™
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Pope052

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@dark_cloud_:

Well evidently that would be your reason. My question is how is he more powerful than SSJ4 Goku?

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SheenLantern

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God, me from 6 months ago was an idiot.

SSJ4 stomps

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Dark Cloud™

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@pope052 said:

@dark_cloud_:

Well evidently that would be your reason. My question is how is he more powerful than SSJ4 Goku?

Based on Battle of Gods. Goku at 80% SSJG form was able to keep up with Bills at 70% power, and even when SSJG wore off, and Goku turned to his original Super Saiyan form, he was still able to fight Bills near evenly. SSJ4 had barely any feats that would make him a formidable opponent, especially when DBGT was so inconsistent. However, it's more of a comparison for me and which one I feel is better - which is SSJG.

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reikai

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@pope052: SSG Goku fought against Birus who, noted by Toriyama, is just one of 12 Universes busters. Also stated by Whis that when Birus gets upset, galaxies vanish. If we were to say that Birus at his max can bust the whole universe and he states he used 70% of that to beat Goku, then he was using enough power to destroy more than 2/3rds of the physical universe when fighting SSG Goku.

Also to note that the Godliy Ki of those like Birus and Whis can't be sensed by anyone other than those who also possess Godly ki, which Goku acquired with his SSG form. Also shown directly that Birus quite effortlessly slapped down SS3 Goku. Even if Goku were to be 10x stronger (which would be SS4 anyway), the outcome wouldn't have changed even slightly. Which would indicate that Goku's SSG form is far above any other SSJ transformation.

Loading Video...

He literally judo-chopped the Super Saiyan right out of him.

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Pope052

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#90  Edited By Pope052

@dark_cloud_:

Power > Feats in DBZ.

Anyway if we were to go by feats, Base GT Goku has better feats than both Bills and SSJG Goku. He destroyed an entire Dimension in his Base Form, whilst only harnessing that power and not even releasing the full-amount. He was even stated to have enough power in that blast to light up the entire galaxy.

His Base was equal to his SSJ3 self when he was fighting Bills, so now we need to account for the SSJ Transformations:

  • SSJ - X50
  • SSJ2 - X2 SSJ
  • SSJ3 - X4 SSJ2

That's X400 his Z SSJ3 counter-part, meaning a whole different level of power compared to anything in DBZ. Then of course, we need to account for SSJ4:

  • SSJ4 - X10 SSJ3

In total, that is X4000 times stronger than the SSJ3 Goku that Bills fought. And Bills is nowhere near that superior to a SSJG Goku, or anyone in BOTG.

SSJG Goku gets one-shotted.

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Pope052

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#91  Edited By Pope052

@reikai:

SSG Goku fought against Birus who, noted by Toriyama, is just one of 12 Universes busters. Also stated by Whis that when Birus gets upset, galaxies vanish. If we were to say that Birus at his max can bust the whole universe and he states he used 70% of that to beat Goku, then he was using enough power to destroy more than 2/3rds of the physical universe when fighting SSG Goku.

SSJ4 Goku is close to, if not a Universal-Level Buster likewise. He went toe-to-toe with the confirmed Universe-Buster Omega Shenron, he ultimately lost but he did destroy Omega's body with a Kamehameha + Dragon-Fist. That counts for something, and let alone his power at that stage would aid my case.

Also shown directly that Birus quite effortlessly slapped down SS3 Goku. Even if Goku were to be 10x stronger (which would be SS4 anyway), the outcome wouldn't have changed even slightly. Which would indicate that Goku's SSG form is far above any other SSJ transformation.

Uh, you're forgetting to account for the power increases from Z to GT. It is fact that Z SSJ3 Goku was = Base GT Goku (General Rildo). Going all the way up to SSJ4, is X4000 times stronger than Z SSJ3 Goku.

Bills/SSJG Goku is nowhere near that level.

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Dark Cloud™

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#92  Edited By Dark Cloud™

@reikai said:

@pope052: SSG Goku fought against Birus who, noted by Toriyama, is just one of 12 Universes busters. Also stated by Whis that when Birus gets upset, galaxies vanish. If we were to say that Birus at his max can bust the whole universe and he states he used 70% of that to beat Goku, then he was using enough power to destroy more than 2/3rds of the physical universe when fighting SSG Goku.

Also to note that the Godliy Ki of those like Birus and Whis can't be sensed by anyone other than those who also possess Godly ki, which Goku acquired with his SSG form. Also shown directly that Birus quite effortlessly slapped down SS3 Goku. Even if Goku were to be 10x stronger (which would be SS4 anyway), the outcome wouldn't have changed even slightly. Which would indicate that Goku's SSG form is far above any other SSJ transformation.

Loading Video...

He literally judo-chopped the Super Saiyan right out of him.

I agree, therefore SSJG is more than capable of one-shotting SSJ4. Your back-up is appreciated.

@pope052 said:

@dark_cloud_:

Power > Feats in DBZ.

Anyway if we were to go by feats, Base GT Goku has better feats than both Bills and SSJG Goku. He destroyed an entire Dimension in his Base Form, whilst only harnessing that power and not even releasing the full-amount. He was even stated to have enough power in that blast to light up the entire galaxy.

His Base was equal to his SSJ3 self when he was fighting Bills, so now we need to account for the SSJ Transformations:

  • SSJ - X50
  • SSJ2 - X2 SSJ
  • SSJ3 - X4 SSJ2

That's X400 his Z SSJ3 counter-part, meaning a whole different level of power compared to anything in DBZ. Then of course, we need to account for SSJ4:

  • SSJ4 - X10 SSJ3

In total, that is X4000 times stronger than the SSJ3 Goku that Bills fought. And Bills is nowhere near that superior to a SSJG Goku, or anyone in BOTG.

SSJG Goku gets one-shotted.

Unfortunately, I disagree.

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Pope052

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@dark_cloud_:

He literally judo-chopped the Super Saiyan right out of him.

I agree, therefore SSJG is more than capable of one-shotting SSJ4. Your back-up is appreciated.

Yeah.. a SSJ3 Goku -X4000 weaker than SSJ4 Goku. That really helps your case.

Unfortunately, I disagree.

You can't disagree with fact.

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Dark Cloud™

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@pope052 said:

@dark_cloud_:

He literally judo-chopped the Super Saiyan right out of him.

I agree, therefore SSJG is more than capable of one-shotting SSJ4. Your back-up is appreciated.

Yeah.. a SSJ3 Goku -X4000 weaker than SSJ4 Goku. That really helps your case.

Unfortunately, I disagree.

You can't disagree with fact.

It's not fact because you say it is, nor can you prove that it is. If I disagree, I disagree. Leave it at that.

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Rouflex

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God, me from 6 months ago was an idiot.

SSJ4 stomps

*Clap hands*

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reikai

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@pope052: You do realize your math is horribly off, don't you?

SSJ = 50x Base

SS2 = 2x SSJ (100x Base)

SS3 = 4x SS2 (400x Base)

SS4 = 10x SS3 (4000x Base)

SS4 =/= 4000x SS3.

Also, O-Shenron isn't a universe buster. It's not confirmed. It's Speculated. They claimed him as a Universal threat. And they said the same thing about Freeza and Cell and even Brolly in the movies. Such statements are completely unreliable.

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Pope052

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@dark_cloud_:

It's not fact because you say it is, nor can you prove that it is. If I disagree, I disagree. Leave it at that.

Uh, so ignore my argument completely then? I'm not just spouting opinions like you, i'm going by the factual evidence. In that evidence, a Base GT Kid Goku was toying with General Rildo (who Goku stated was stronger than Majin Buu, an SSJ3 tier Character).

That puts Goku even to his Z SSJ3 self. Then accounting for the X50, X2, X4, and X10 SSJ Multipliers, you get a grand-total of X4000 times stronger than Z SSJ3 Goku.

Disagree if you will but considering you have no argument with you..

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Fallschirmjager

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#98  Edited By Fallschirmjager

Omega Shenron isn't a universe buster. He cannot one shot a universe. Fact.

He can slowly corrupt the energy of a planet and destroy it. Said energy would then chain to other planets and eventually destroy everything in the universe.

That isn't a universe buster. That is a threat to all life in the universe, but not a threat to the universe itself.

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Pope052

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#99  Edited By Pope052

@reikai:

You do realize your math is horribly off, don't you?

SSJ = 50x Base

SS2 = 2x SSJ (100x Base)

SS3 = 4x SS2 (400x Base)

SS4 = 10x SS3 (4000x Base)

SS4 =/= 4000x SS3.

Uh.. that is what I literally calculated? Can you see straight?

Also, O-Shenron isn't a universe buster. It's not confirmed. It's Speculated. They claimed him as a Universal threat. And they said the same thing about Freeza and Cell and even Brolly in the movies. Such statements are completely unreliable.

He stated it himself, and the Kai's also suggested that he could too. I don't have the exact statements right now but I can easily find the episode of DBGT where they said so, along where King Kai also said something regarding OS's power.

They never said that Cell/Frieza/Broly were a Universe-Threat, they assumed that they were the most powerful being in the Universe. That doesn't mean they were a Universal-Level threat.

@neongamewave would know.

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Dark Cloud™

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@pope052 said:

@dark_cloud_:

It's not fact because you say it is, nor can you prove that it is. If I disagree, I disagree. Leave it at that.

Uh, so ignore my argument completely then? I'm not just spouting opinions like you, i'm going by the factual evidence. In that evidence, a Base GT Kid Goku was toying with General Rildo (who Goku stated was stronger than Majin Buu, an SSJ3 tier Character).

That puts Goku even to his Z SSJ3 self. Then accounting for the X50, X2, X4, and X10 SSJ Multipliers, you get a grand-total of X4000 times stronger than Z SSJ3 Goku.

Disagree if you will but considering you have no argument with you..

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Uh, I ignored your argument? Why would you assume that? Is it because I don't agree with you that you claim I ignored your argument? Is it because I disagree with you that you feel I overlooked your argument to continue my belief that SSJG is a better character and overall more powerful? What you claim as evidence is nothing more than a fan-made theory with which you say is fact, and you can give them as many numbers as you want - still doesn't make YOUR rating any more factual than a SSJ4 Broly. I can post my own calculations on what I see as probably power levels, but then I'd be forgetting Toriyama stopped using Power Levels back in the Frieza Saga and it'd be mighty difficult to gauge them properly.

So no, I didn't ignore your argument. I simply disagree with it.