Goku (SSG) vs Superman

Well... the movies out. Have not seen this thread in the search bars. So here it is.

SSG Goku vs Pre Crisis Superman.

In Character

Battle on a indestructible world of Adamantium

No BFR (So no running away like a girl to Sun Dip arguments)

Battle to Death or KO.

Who wins?

Again, if you are going by feats, Superman wins, if you are going by math, Goku cubstomps.

They become BFFs, cross over into our universe, then beat up everyone who ever argued about which one of them would win in a fight.

Superman

P.S. (good lord how many of these topics exist? lol)

I support this.

also @cadencev2: I dont know if you know this, but I'll say it anyway, that's not SSG, it's a fan made pic

Pre-crisis Superman wins.

This thread existed, but new search function is just suck, but there's no thread about pre-crisis Superman vs SSJG Goku yet, until now...

I think Pre Crisis will win but the only feats I have seen from him are the solar system sneeze and the towing a few dozen planets. What other feats does he have?

@cadencev2:
It's clear from the "No running away to Sundip" line that you are already Bias in this. So before it gets locked, I'll say it again. Also, if the movies out, where did you watch it. Post a link and or upload it for the rest of us. Otherwise, I am going to assume you are basing all you thought on reviews and clips from you tube. Have you actually seen the entire movie. If so, where. If you own it, upload it for the rest of us.

1) Goku's got Zero feats to stand with Clark. Zip, Zero. Full force, He will One Shot him, if not break the entire side of his body that he hit.
2)Goku does not have the durability. All the math in the world means little when he's never been shown to actually do it.
3)Goku is factually weak to elements. Superman's heat vision has heated everything from Planet cores to the entire earth. It will lock with the Kamehame-ha beam to beam still. It will kill Goku right on the spot if Superman means to kill him. There is no way to get around this. If heat vision connects, that will be the end of it.

4)Goku is a stand up fighter. He will seek to strike with Clark. Historically, this is Goku's method. Run in, trade blows, go for a big finish with a heavy hit. Follow up with beam if needed. A counter punch from pre Crisis Clark will mess him up. A follow up with K.O. him. And if They both intend to kill, That's all she wrote. He won't get past the opening attack.

anyway. Yeah, that's all the major points, I wait for you or who ever to come back about Goku punching energy waves away and the beams moving FTL and they talk FTL too so that's why they can say all that stuff before hand and still shoot beams ect.

Bills was confirmed to be a galaxy buster in the movie. Or at least hinted at it. That means any version of Superman post crisis or not on the prime level of godhood are going to be obliterated by SSJG in terms of durability and energy output power. But, SA Superman is just unfair to compare most other characters to. I can see Silver Age superman putting Bills and Goku into his special Zoo he has at the fortress, because they are both so rare and among the last of their kind in Gokus case...puts Bills on a chain and walks him daily with Krypto, smacks him on the nose when he is bad...lol :)

I don't see how mathematical calculations would ever be of help here, especially when regarding DBZ :)

Feats are the best and only reasonable way to determine a character's skill and potential against another opponent.

It could go either way.

That's actually not a fan-made pic. That was the original design for SSG Mode, but Akira Toriyama did not like the design because he didn't want another muscular transformation, so it was changed into the current design with Goku being rather slender.

Super breath powerful enough to move Earth

Close Boom-Tube portal with his bare hand

Overloaded the telepathic alien with his will

Playing catch with an asteroid

Snuff out a star with super breath and moving it

Wrap an asteroid-sized alien in metal at 1/1000 of a second and throw it away at the speed of light

Throw a neutron star effortlessly that have magnetic field strength of dozen supernovas

Correcting the time flow

Take a planet-busting bomb to the face without feeling anything

Effortlessly break a time barrier and time travel in some occasion, under his own power

Turning laser bream into a harmless light beam with heat vision

Absorb enough energy to destroy a planet and use it to reignite a sun

Move a Sun with his super-breath

Stop a star from going to supernova, with his super speed!

Shape-shifting by simply rubbing his face

Read 5 million page-book in 5 seconds

Use telepathy to fight off two powerful telepathic alien and win

Learn to absorb magic harmlessly

Move faster than light to intercepts a beam of light even in Earth's atmosphere

Use super speed to compress a orange star into the size he can hold it in one hand

Slice planet in half, then use heat vision to fuse it together again and replace the vacuum with life-giving air (creation)

Travel billion light years then turn a star into supernova with heat vision in just nanoseconds

Close a black hole with his bare hands

Extinguish a red giant with his breath

Immune to time manipulation since he time-traveled so many times

Not affected by a time-slowing field

Superman laugh and the Richter scale went up to 7.7 in Las Vegas

Live through a big bang explosion, observe what happens and go back to tell the story to the public

Search entire Earth thousands of times in few seconds

Still more to go, but is this convincing enough?

Its clear you upset about me pitting SSG Goku against Supes and not allowing Supes to Sundip.

I never seen the movie, I said its out now. Where did you get I saw the Movie.

1) As I thought, raging fan.

2) Again as I thought.

3) thus In character and Morals On. Superman does not kill.

4) Considering Goku, and all DB charatcers, use energy projection for half their moves....

Im sure someone who has seen the movie will make a post as well. Interested in seeing what new feats if any Goku has.

proof????

You really want proof of this? lol My claim is rather benign and has absolutely no substantive bearing on this thread; I just thought I'd mention it as a point of clarification. If you want "proof" just watch the early trailers of the Battle of the Gods movie and you'll actually see that form being used. Toriyama also mentioned this in an interview he gave. If you really want to confirm this then just google it.

Pre Crisis Superman? Utterly stomps. SA Superman was so obscene it's not even fair to toss him against DBZ characters.

Wait, immune to speed steal? How? Speed Steal didn't exist in Pre Crisis.

@dredeuced: It's not Flash that is trying to steal his speed.

Speed Steal is almost implicitly meant to refer to Wally's/Savitar's/Jay's maneuver. Who was stealing his speed?

@dredeuced: It's some sort of field that slows everything down (including gravity) to virtually stop in its vicinity, but he's unaffected by it.

@angryhulks: You phrased that very misleadingly. That's hardly speed stealing -- the speed's not even going anywhere Superman is also confused as to why it doesn't affect him, if you have the followups on the issue it might provide some context.

I should have phrase it differently, yeah.

@angryhulks: Wasn't time eater in Sonic Generations speed steal everything except for Sonic too?Plus,Sonic restored it.

I F*cking hate the new search function....

I don't know about Sonic, except for some old Sonic games, but I don't think it's matter here as Superman's case might be different. Frankly, I take this from other website again as I'm not ancient enough to own most pre-crisis comics.

But that feat could be treated as additive, it doesn't really matter in this battle as Goku can't steal speed or generate time-slowing field anyway.

NVM,Time Eater erases time and space.

The

Time Eater

(タイム・イーター,

Taimu

Ītā

^?

)

is one of the main antagonists and the final boss of

Sonic

Generations

. Initially a creature drifting through space, gifted with

the power to "erase time and space", it was discovered by

Dr. Eggman

, who

decided to use it to conquer the world by using it to alter history and fix his

past failures with the help of his past self.

@uberhikari: yeah i want proof. this has nothing to do with the thread, but when you come here and claim such a thing without presenting any proof and without any shred of evidence in any of the official sources that this was ever the planned form, yeah Im gonna doubt it and ask for proof.

I was rather "benign" as you put it, when I asked proof for this, I wasn't claiming you were lying or was I argumenting it, since it has no point in this thread. but due to your reply i can see that maybe, that was just an unreliable claim.

the only place I've ever seen this form was in fan made posters, which also showed SSj3 Vegeta, and that isn't also true and never heard of that being planned for the movie either

Let's assume for the sake of argument that I could provide no proof of my claims. Would that, therefore, prove my claims to be false? A lack of evidence is not evidence of falsity. Like I said, if you want to assess the veracity of my claims then use google or youtube. It's really not that difficult.

@uberhikari: yeah it doesn't disprove what you said. but basically I will just assume you just spit that out without actually seeing that anywhere, or seeing it in a place where they came up with it

just to rest this topic here, I actually did research and I found out that the guy lead designer for the movie (not akira) had made an initial SSG who had HAIR between SSj3 and SSj4, was more muscular and WEARING a cape. so nothing like that pic up there. Akira came in and made a different, closer to the current red hair SSG, and less muscular form. then they settled for the current form presented in the movie.

so yeah, pretty sure that's a fan made pic. and that stuff up there Im saying is taken from an interview with Battle of Gods lead designer for characters

PS: the designer name is Tadoyoshi Yamamuro (?)

Well, there you have it. I was mistaken. I confused that picture with the blue aura Goku originally had in SSJG form rather than the red aura he has. You had reason to be skeptical, did research and came to your own conclusion.

@uberhikari: well yeah, sorry about that, I only did it because it was really odd what you had said. I was only trying to tell the OP that that wasn't the actual SSG form

That's not God form dude, he has red hair. Check out

- "SSJ God Goku vs J.L.A"

1)Making statements with similar wording as my first post does not make you seems smart, just unoriginal and lame. I'm "upset" that you start a debate that you know nothing about? Lack of sundip means nothing to me. I mentioned it in that you're op was clearly aimed at Clark in that you say "No sundip argument". Thus, you are trying to slant this in away that he can't do something he may or may not normally do.

2)I got that you've seen it in that you make a thread to debate the character and the feats. If you haven't seen it, why make the thread. You said you didn't see it in the search bar. What did you look it up for? What do you have to add to a debate of facts and feats when you have none to bring given that you haven't seen the movie?

3)Rage fan? Hardly. Tired the same thread when the result is always always the same. Completely.

4)Don't care what a person with not facts and nothing to actually contribute thinks.

5)So?

Yeah, we're done here.

@bossmonster:

1) Probably because raging Supe Fans like to leave remarks of sun dip Supes win in any Superman vs (Insert character here) Argument.

2) Maybe because (Shocker) this is a debate thread. I want to see a debate between these 2.

3) So you believe Action Comics Superman beats Kid Goku? Not the same is it....

4) Like you?

5) My point exactly.

1)So you admit that you were trying to keep superman from having access to all his options. Ok. Cool. Now we have that straight.

2)Here is another Shocker, to debate you have to have fact and not about the subject matter. You don't. Nobody outside of Japan, as far as anyone on this board as shown, does. So how can it be debated??

3)What in Gods name does that have to do withh SSJG vs Clark?

4)No, you mom. (See what I did there.)

@bossmonster: Your not good at this game are ya?

1) That is correct, I see no reason why Supes should Sun Dip when he is this level.

2) Its debated by (SHOCKER AGAIN) other debaters. Seems hardly reasonable to Debate in my own thread if I picked a clear Side to win. Defeats the purpose... does any of this sink in?

3) You believe this another Goku vs Superman Thread. Its 2 different version as is Kid Goku and Action Comics Supes which means different outcomes to said battles.

Point is you are proving hopelessly lost on the battle forums?

4)

4)No, you mom. (See what I did there.)

... Yeah you prove you cannot write worth a crap. You Mom? You mean your mom? LOL

You're the only person playing the game no one else has interest in.

1)Word

2)No it isn't. They would need the facts and feats for that. Like you, they don't have them. Fail.

3)No, I believe this another SSJG vs Superman thread. I thought that was pretty clear with the question

What in Gods name does that have to do withh SSJG vs Clark?

Maybe you should brush up on the whole reading thing.

4)Do I need to go back and point out the number of times you Cap'd letters that didn't need it and put comma that didn't need to be there? Get real. You even follow that up with I can't "write" while I am typing???? Ugh.

Anyway, This thread is dumb. I'm out.

All we know for sure is that Super Saiyan 3 Goku busted a hole through King Kai's planet which is 10x density of E-arth

which is 10x the mass compacted together in a smaller space.

In a way this

is alot more impressive because punching out 10x the density of the entire

earth.

I am pretty sure pre crisis superman couldn't sun dip anyways so I have no idea why him being unable to sundip is a big deal.....

@frocharocha:

At 0:40 King Kai said that he was using "two tons a peice". And Goku was moving around like it was nothing. Two tons a peice is 8 tons x10 Gravity=80 tons.

1:43 he says it will be 10 tons a peice and Goku says that he wont be able to move. When they added on to the ten tons a peice he obviously couldnt move and it was dragging him down at 2:50. He has to go Supersaiyan one to lift it.

So we know that screwattack went wrong when they didn't add the 10 gravity making it 400 tons.

So it shows the increase of strength of each SS form

-SS1x50

-SS2x2

-SS3x4

-SS4x10

Strength Level(My Calculations)

Base-80 tons(Since he has lifting 8 at x10 gravity so that's 80 tons)

-SS1-4,000 tons

-SS2-8,000 tons

-SS3-32,000 tons

-SS4-320,000 tons

SS4 is said to be the equivalent to SSG. But I'll be nice and add in SSG after SS4. So if he can lift 320,000 tons at SS4 then at SSG he should be able to lift 3,200,000 tons. I'm getting this from people saying he increases x10. Keep in mind I was being generous for this one.

Now we do "the math" for Supermans strength.

Now we all know Superman is the strongest one in this pic but, I'll be generous once more while doing these calculations. Let's say Superman was to be the same strength as MM and WW. He would be pulling %33 of Earth.

Earth weighs 6,585,000,000,000,000,000,000(Sextillion) tons. Divide that by 3 and you'll get about....

2,195,000,000,000,000,000,000(Sextillion tons) Superman is pulling. Which is WAYYY stronger than Goku. But, I feel that you are going to say "Superman is pulling instead of lifting".

Well I'll be generous again and split that by a half which would still be

1,097,500,000,000,000,000,000 tons. Even if I divide this AGAIN that would still be MUCH stronger than Goku's 3,200,000 ton lift(which Goku can't really lift)

Durability?

Superman get crushed by two planet colliding and still lived. And he also took a Supernova to teh face and was only KO'd momentarily.

have not seen movie so im gonna say supes wins because pre crisis superman was so HAXXX!!!!

@wardemon32: I always wondered how did the lasso get so big?

Awful thread:

1. That's a fake fan picture of SSJG Goku

2. Pre-crisis Supes stomps

3. Post-crisis would be a better fight

Also SSJG Goku makes SSJ4 Goku look like dog shit.

@wardemon32: Trying to compare lifting power to striking power is not the brightest idea,especially in DBZ.Here is what I have for Goku SS3 busting a hole in King Kai's planet.

> The greater the amount of matter (mass) something has the more

gravitational force it will generate.

> Density = mass per unit of

volume.

> If planet A is larger than planet B, but has less

gravitational force than planet B, planet B must be more massive, thus being

more dense.

Mass does not have any effect on gravity and for the most part that is true.

Mass is simply the amount of matter is a said space. Gravity is the amount of

pulling force exerted proportionately to an objects mass (we think, scientists

are searching for the theoretical partical known as a graviton, still unknown if

it exists.)

This would scientifically mean, King Kai’s planet would need

a mass for it to be proportionate to the gravity it exerts. However,

massive-ness in size has little correlation into size. Earth can fit inside the

sun millions of times over, yet only has gravity about 28x greater.

This

can be explained by the theory of density. The denser an object the more mass

and gravity it has. I suggest you look up neutron stars to get an idea of what

I’m about to talk about. A neutron star can be about the size of our earth and

have a mass(not gravity) of more than 5 of our suns. The higest amount of mass

that can be compressed into a neutron star is 10 suns. Anymore and it will

become a black hole. A neutron star is so dense because of the amount of mass it

has compacted that it can have up to 10 to the eleventh power x earth gravity.

In order to even move on a neutron star you’d have to move 1/3rd the speed of

light to stand.

Density, (which king kai’s planet is.) has a direct

correlation to mass, evidence with the neutron star.

Conclusion, is

King Kai’s planet 10x the mass of earth?

Probably not no, it does not

even have the same amount of matter as earth. But it does have 10x the density

which is 10x the mass compacted together in a smaller space.

In a way this

is alot more impressive because punching out 10x the density of the entire

earth.

Recap, its not more massive. But that doesn’t matter anyway. Its

10x as dense as earth which is the real feat. Try crushing an Soccer Ball in

your hands, then try a Basketball, then try a Golf ball, then try to crush a

cannon ball in your hands.

I forgot to mention this: if you look at the video again, it was a shockwave from his punch, goku's hand doesn't even seem to touch the ground, considering he was pretty much upright when bills tapped him on the neck.. And Goku wasn't bloodlusted, when he does, he undergoes a transformation. Seriously, we only saw him go seriously angry against frieza.. he takes most of the fights in a happy go lucky manner, but he was fighting bills seriously.Though Vegeta bloodlusted did more.

Density is the state of being dense and/or compact.

If something is “dense”

or “denser”, it’s going to be hard/solid/etc.

They executed that term

properly in DBZ.

They showed the difference between mass and something

being much more dense.

Goku threw a huge boulder at Gohan’s Z sword.

The huge boulder was easily sliced in half.

Goku then threw Katchin

Alloy at Gohan’s Z sword.

The Katchin Alloy easily shattered the Z sword and

there wasn’t a single scratch on it.

The Katchin Alloy has a much lesser

mass than the huge boulder (It was practically weightless), however it was

stated to be the most “densest” material.

So, the conclusion comes to

this:

Mass doesn’t equate to having more “durability”.

Dense/Density is

ALL that matters when it comes to durability.From what another person said,it could have been the shockwave of his punch.Plus, the density is even more higher if you actually did calculations for their density it'd be much more higher since King Kai's planet is even smaller

In Dragon Ball Z,the impact of their blows against ki blasts can even counter them when their not even over powered by them .Also,ki blasts could easily knock out Post Crisis

SSG durability:More than what this punch can dish out.The only ability that is used that isn't already applied to his stats allover is the fact that he can absorb energy,but he doesn't gain a power boost up apparently.

Besides that,why bring Death Battle up when this is precrisis though I don't want to talk about this battle

Why is this even being discused? Post Crisis or New 52 sure theres a debate but pre crisis no this is a win for sups. and thats coming from a dbz fan.

@sondeatheater: What? When did I compare striking power to lifting power?

Goku punched a hole through the planet at SSJ3 and Superman is arguably stronger. And you said "especially in DBZ". Well that's not the case in DC. Would you rather get punched in the face by Superman or would you rather get punched in the face by spiderman(which is weaker).

Or a bodybuilder compared to your mom. I'd rather take the hit from my mom.

But, calculate the striking force needed to punch a hole through King Kai.

it was in JLA issue 75 IIRC, Manitou Raven extended it.

i havent watched the movie but people should note that PC superman was capable of sneezing away a solar system and carry hundreds of planets with his strength, this is not pre 52 or post 52 superman, he's way above that.

ok and why did they have to move the planet? and yea i dont like superman but i love dbz (fanboy for like homie) but pre crisis superman is just so ridiculous. verry few chars can actually face this guy. but could he beat tenpa tapa gurren lagan? i think i butchered the spelling

it was pushed out of orbit, and they had to put it back, which they failed to do without help.

you mean the guy who dwarfs galaxies? yes sure he can

Pre crisis Superman would rip him limb from limb

wow... wow... there is a new one everyday.

hmmm i heard that was a misconception about him sneezing away a galaxy, i heard he had gotten a boost or a power up by somebody